278932 No.650773 [View All]
Everything nuclear war related goes here. Desired discussions include, but are not limited to:
1. How will nuclear war(s) be fought? Carpet bomb everything with nukes, or would the use of nuclear weapons be limited?
2. How can Strelok survive a nuclear war?
3. Where in the world would be the best place to be if the bomb(c) drop?
4. What happens after a nuclear war? Atomic winter/autumn or something else?
____________________________
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760bb1 No.671448
>>671268
>Maybe if it was air launched off a 747 it might make sense.
Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of the reposition and insertion of supersonic zoom-climbing fighter/interceptors?
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33308d No.671454
Got this from /x/.
>>668396
Shower how often.
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f2ae4d No.671470
>>650879
<the smoke&fumes from nuked areas would still incur less of an effect on the atmosphere than the average Californian forest fire.
>even though each individual nuke will on average be burning way more forest than the average Californian forest fire
Sheer delusion, dismissing the effects of nuclear winter is a /k/ meme from people who want to see SHTF, and Americans who think they can win a nuclear war with China.
>>650881
<During all of human history there have been ~2500 atomic tests
In a controlled fashion, with regular intervals for fallout and heat to dissipate. Many of these tests were 'tunnel' tests, without a full explosion.
<S has a strategically available arsenal of ~1800 nuclear weapons. Assuming Russia and China have the same, and all of them launch their missiles at once, and all of them explode, that's 5400 nuclear detonations
At the height of the cold war, the US and USSR had some 60,000 nuclear warheads combined. This was being shaved down to about 5k each by all the various treaties - all of which have been or are actively being torn up over the past decade. In the 2020's expect the US and Russia to be back in the couple ten thousand figure each, and China to have >1000 declared warheads.
<Nuclear war won't be the end of mankind
We don't know exactly what the detonation of thousands of nuclear bombs across the planet over 24hrs will do, but it will be felt for decades if not centuries. Let's just hope it doesn't irradiate ALL of the farmland, or destroy ALL of the fertiliser production.
>>650944
<macro-organisms will be fine
Humans will starve to death or die of nuclear-induced AIDS (by your theory). This is because
<6 months to 10 years of dust clouds over most of the world
is all it will take to destroy 99% of agriculture.
< a little alpha radiation
Are you unaware or just pretending that beta particles and gamma ray are the main source of radiation from all forms of nuclear explosives (regardless of detonation height or design etc.)?
<clears out of the air after 24 hours in most parts of the world
Then sits on doors, soil, walls, in rivers, etc. for months
<muh radaway
More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Rad
Sounds like only US soldiers (and other countries soldiers if they're secretly developing this) will have access to it.
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fec232 No.671491
>>671448
No because a fighter can't really move supersonic for any length of time, especially not carrying a massive missile. Something like MiG31 might be an exception because it was built specifically for afterburning flight, but that's not the norm.
Most military fighters carrying missiles would move at the same speed and altitude as a 747, at which point it's better to bring a giant airplane which can carry 20x ABM and also carry a staff and a communications dish to control them.
There might be an issue here where you think the missile goes upwards? If you're planning to put something into orbit or near orbit to shoot down a satellite or a warhead, you're actually firing it horizontally!
If you fire it upwards it just yoyos down again, it doesn't have any ability to control or adjust its flight. The reason airplane spacelaunch is a thing is not because of the speed or angle of launch, but because the airplane literally hoists the missile out of 70% of the atmospheric mass at 10km. It's the same reason telescopes are built on mountains, to escape air mass.
Anyway at 10km a missile's fuel gets you 100x more mileage than if it was fired off the ground, it can also travel more quickly with shittier materials because there's less heating at high speed.
A lot of spacelaunch is just from balloons, if soyboys scared of an 80 year old huge manatee movie got executed we could build hydrogen airships and launch steel missiles into orbit loaded with hundreds of crew every day.
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b89d6a No.671517
>>671454
>Shower how often
Bare minimum after every time you go outside, immediately before you do anything else, and it has to be at the entrance so you don't track anything in with you. Showering in your shelter should be minimized as much as possible (to save water). Cleanliness before eating should be maintained, however, so that you don't get diseased, so wash your hands and sanitize food surfaces. Other than that…yeah. If you don't go outside too often, then water shouldn't be too hard to maintain. Boil and re-use gray water if you have to.
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1de6f7 No.671580
>>651038
Infantrynigger here, we used to talk about this shit during downtime in Afghanland. Once we went a whole discussion about if they ordered us to fire on civilians. If it was regular Americans and not rioting niggers or something like that, most of us said we would desert and go home/innawoods. Some of the married guys said they would stay in (because muh base housing) but refuse to fire on civilians. Lastly, there was one stupid 20-year-old boomer spic who unironically said "my country, right or wrong", and was all about shooting whoever ZOG told him to.
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853cfd No.671623
>>671580
>>651038
Yeah, but PSYOPS and other rumors would probably just say that everyone was rioting niggers, and a lot of people would have to die before anyone realized it actually was not. Rumors and bad information would kill a large number of people.
The general assumptions of combat are
>Commanders know who the enemy is
>Commanders use good intel to direct combative action towards said enemy
>Enemy is clearly discernible from everyone else
After that all ROE breaks down:
>Formally, rules of engagement refer to the orders issued by a competent military authority that delineate when, where, how, and against whom military force may be used, and they have implications for what actions soldiers may take on their own authority and what directives may be issued by a commanding officer. Rules of engagement are part of a general recognition that procedures and standards are essential to the conduct and effectiveness of civilized warfare.
Keywords being that the fighting force is competent and cohesive. As Strelok explained, people were split on what they would do, And beyond that, lack of communication would probably cause a lot of friendly fire, not to mention >>651047 when you cannot tell the enemy from the civilian, you assume the worst and must either kill everything or be victims pf countless ambushes. The solution to the latter is to use non-lethal weapon systems, which probably only police have.
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33308d No.671630
Is this target map accurate?
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853cfd No.671636
>>650773
>1. How will nuclear war(s) be fought? Carpet bomb everything with nukes, or would the use of nuclear weapons be limited?
Current US strategy is to utilize precision nuclear strike with lower yields, on the basis that a doctrine of large scale attacks have a lessened strategic effect (it is assumed that nobody would be so foolish as to end the world, yet destroying one or a few cities is back in the realm of realism). Russia and China found loopholes in treaties, or disregarded them in order to outfit a more varied arsenal, Russias new Kanyon nuclear torpedo and china attempting to do the same are evidence that such projects have been ongoing, while US development stagnated and under Bush 1 and 2, followed by obama, there was a significant reduction in arms stockpiles from cold war numbers. I am too lazy to post the Nuclear posture review that came out last year.
India and Pakistan have come to the brink of nuking each other a few times, but in the end, nobody had the balls to go through with it because of massive international pressure.
2. How can Strelok survive a nuclear war?
CBRN fags, also dig a hole and go unnaground
3. Where in the world would be the best place to be if the bomb(c) drop?
Highly dependent on where the bombs drop, certain very specific scenarios would end everything, regardless of where you are. There are pros and cons to being further into the poles or the equator, all of which must be carefully weighed against your ability and assets, if you want to survive.
4. What happens after a nuclear war? Atomic winter/autumn or something else?
Nobody really knows. Assuming different weapons types are used, there can be an assumed level of fallout, but scientifically speaking, governments mostly shoot in the dark. The United States did a number of survivability assessments during the cold war, in order to determine optimal designs for everything from infrastructure to vehicles in order to see what would survive. If certain numbers of nukes fell on certain areas, there could be a global cooling affect assuming dust becomes sufficiently distributed into major wind systems (probably unlikely). There are also particular atmospheric effects depending on the height of detonation and the yield of the weapon.
The means by which targets are selected is also hard to determine, but the strategic, social, and economic value are taken into account.
The book Stockpile by Jerry Miller talks about the origins and the fate of the US nuclear stockpile up until Trump took office.
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4f725d No.671650
>>671630
Why the hell would anyone target Las Vegas?
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729d84 No.671651
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1dc520 No.671653
>>671651
Truth is, the veggies were on the plate from the start
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c938e4 No.671700
>>671650
>why the hell would anyone target a major Air Force base not even 5 miles away from Las Vegas
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181903 No.671704
>>671650
Nellis Air Force Base
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853cfd No.671726
>>671650
Because the russians like the vidya memes :^)
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3d4177 No.671778
>>667810
They'll be useless. Nukes do most damage through airburst, meaning they are detonated above ground for maximum descruption. However, that also means that there is nothing but air around the nuke itself – there will be no particles for it to actually irradiate. There won't be any radioactive fallout and the nuke explosion won't carry a radiation hazard.
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3d4177 No.671779
>>650773
>How will nuclear war(s) be fought?
major cities, industrial centres, and military installations will be carpeted, and that will be all
>How can Strelok survive a nuclear war?
Just go stay at your relatives' in the country. After its done, create or join some local militia and go from there; it'll be wild west time for the next decade or two
>Where in the world would be the best place to be if the bomb(c) drop?
Seriously, anywhere other than a city, industrial centre, or a military installation. Nothing but those will be affected whatsoever (save for power outages etc. but that goes without saying)
>What happens after a nuclear war? Atomic winter/autumn or something else?
There won't be any serious environmental consequences if that's what you're asking. Well, okay, there will be one – much cleaner air as China gets bombed back into stone age.
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853cfd No.671793
>>671778
>Nukes do most damage through airburst
NO
HEMP is only useful for communication disruption or interfering with electronics. If weapons were to be used, it would be for actual kinetic effect or destroying cities.
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853cfd No.671795
>>671779
>There won't be any serious environmental consequences if that's what you're asking. Well, okay, there will be one – much cleaner air as China gets bombed back into stone age.
Remember that time scientists said to just nuke everything, in order to make the earth survive?
>Govt Scientists Propose Nuclear War to Curb Global Warming https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/6916-govt-scientists-propose-nuclear-war-to-curb-global-warming
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3d4177 No.671835
>>671793
But I'm not talking about HEMP, I'm talking about the literal burst of air that physically destroys cities. The fireball itself is quite small – it won't touch more than a few blocks – it's the airburst that causes widespread destruction over a large area
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873c04 No.671840
how justified was Hitler?
consider that he was fighting the exact same Jews of the USSR that we were opposed to during the Cold War, and we were ready not to just kill millions, but kill billions, most like the entire Human Race and every mammal bigger than a rat, rather than submit to the same Jewish Communist regime Hitler was fighting.
OK, the Jews we were opposing weren't nearly as bad as the Jews Hitler faced. After WW2 the Soviets mostly stopped their most massive slaughters a few years after 1945 (when the Cold War ramped up) and they had even started a mostly legit World Wide "charm offensive" where they exported not just weapons, but lots and lots of legit civilian aid to poor people. It was at least semi-legit claimed that by many measurements the Jewish Communists were doing MORE to help needy people than the much richer USA.
Further, we were so against Jews that we'd created a hair-trigger situation where it was quite likely we'd suddenly murder billions of innocent people just by some dumb mistake.
Hitler only wanted the criminal Jews out of Germany, and had several non-criminal Jews in high offices throughout WW2.
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b89d6a No.671841
>>671793
>Not knowing the difference between airburst and High Altitude burst
>Not knowing there's also underwater, underground, and surface bursts
Airburst will be the most common way to destroy cities, as the bombs will explode high enough for the pressure wave to create better ground effects, with no dampening effects from impacting the ground.
>>671840
>How justified was Hitler
Hitler never killed people. Only communist bugmen.
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ceafca No.671845
>>671840
>he was fighting the exact same Jews of the USSR that we were opposed to during the Cold War
The USSR was almost as anti-Jewish as Nazi Germany. Read up on the Doctors' Plot, a false flag that was designed to justify a second Holocaust in Soviet Russia in the 1950s.
The commies had planned to "deport" most or all Jews in the Soviet Union and satellite states to special camps within the Gulag system where they would be worked to death or murdered by camp guards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_plot
America was not against Jews, we were opposed to communism and other forms of socialism. While some communists were Jewish the movement as a whole was not.
>It was at least semi-legit claimed that by many measurements the Jewish Communists were doing MORE to help needy people than the much richer USA
Except that's wrong. False. The opposite of true. The standard of living in Russia and Russian aligned countries was always worse than the standard of living in the United States and most countries aligned with the western powers. There were some exceptions of ant-communist dictatorships being propped up where the standards were pretty low, but socialist regimes were more easily adapted to concentrating power and wealth in the hands of a few than capitalist countries.
Just look at Cuba as an example. The average monthly income is somewhere around $25 but Castro died with about $900 million. Capitalist systems typically have a higher income level for those at the bottom because they depend more on the movement of goods and services (represented by money).
If you want to hate Jews for some legitimate reason, or for no reason at all, you can. America is a free country. But you shouldn't buy into or make up shit about nefarious Jews hiding under every rock and behind every bush, conspiring to take over the world through capitalism, socialism, science, faith, and every other two diametrically opposed things. There just aren't that many around to pull it off, and there's no way that it could be kept hidden long enough for any such plots to actually get anywhere.
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7d91f9 No.671848
>>671845
>>671845
THIS is what I call muttposting!
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ceafca No.671859
>>671848
I'd rather be a mutt than an inbred retard like you.
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ff4c8d No.671864
>>671845
>The USSR was almost as anti-Jewish as Nazi Germany. Read up on the Doctors' Plot, a false flag that was designed to justify a second Holocaust in Soviet Russia in the 1950s.
LOL, anti-semitism and holocaust denial was illegal in the USSR.
Shut the fuck up boomer.
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f43b31 No.671865
>>671859
Well, you are. So wish granted, I guess.
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b89d6a No.671868
>>671865
>German flag
You do realize that you're either the bastard child of a Russian who raped your grandma, a foreigner in a foreign land, or the descendant of a coward who gave up on his country, right?
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ff4c8d No.671871
>>671868
What is this, opposite day?
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601081 No.671872
>>671845
Not true. Show me almost free housing USA ever provided, gov controlled prices so anyone could afford everything, free schools on every level, full employment policy so job security etc etc. You look at Trump level guys, you don't look at 50% of people barely paying for living expenses with almost no security whatsoever. Forgetting fiat petrodollar etc.
A flat costs 1mln in NY and you got one for equivalent of 15$ during "commie" era - its the same space with the same function for population.
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ff4c8d No.671874
>>671872
The USA does provide those, but only for refugees.
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1dc520 No.671877
>>671868
>bastard child of a Russian who raped your grandma
Those kids were aborted and washed down the drain.
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351427 No.671906
>>671778
Unless it's intentionally salted. Did the US, Russians, or Chinese ever build salted bombs? If they did then I'm going to guess they never used cobalt because that just makes a mess for everyone to have to live with.
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ceafca No.671907
>>671877
>Those kids were aborted and washed down the drain.
You say that, and yet here you are.
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33308d No.671908
>>671845
>the movement as a whole was not
>>671877
If women in the Rhine didn't abort their mutt rapebabies from the stationed Senegalese why would do so with Russians. Although leave it to bait unrelated to ruin a thread on modern /k/.
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ceafca No.671911
>>671864
>LOL, anti-semitism and holocaust denial was illegal in the USSR.
>The Doctors' plot was an antisemitic campaign organized by Joseph Stalin.
>First, almost all Soviet Jews would be shipped to camps east of the Urals
>Second, the authorities would set Jewish leaders at all levels against one another
>Also the MGB would start killing the elites in the camps, just as they had killed the Yiddish writers the previous year.
>final stage would be to "get rid of the rest."
Communists are not people, they're targets waiting to be shot. The Allies should never have allowed any cooperation with the Russians during the war, not after the invasion of Finland.
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351427 No.671915
>>671795
>>671779
The thing that people forget is that the nuclear winter/volcanic winter/cosmic winter hypothesis is that it was formulated back at a time when it was thought that particulate matter would be the forcing mechanism for the short term climate change. What we've learned however is that particulate matter isn't nearly as important as aerosols or gases. Volcanoes or bolides only cause widespread cooling if they release a lot of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere.
Nukes really don't release any gasses with the exception of nitrogen dioxide. There is some concern that many hundreds or thousands of atomic weapons being detonated over a short period of time could cause severe ozone depletion.
Though there's also still an unknown factor about the quality of particulates that a nuclear war would produce that might put nuclear winter back on the table. The "ash" produced by volcano or an impact is recondensed rock, thus it is heavy and falls out relatively quickly. Nukes on the other hand would tend to produce soot which could stay in the atmosphere for a much longer time.
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62ec0f No.671919
>>671906
>I'm going to guess they never used cobalt because that just makes a mess for everyone to have to live with.
<The Technology required to do so is easily within the reach of even the smallest nuclear nation, it requires simply the WILL to do so
I'm pretty sure that this is the entire point of a salted warhead, they just seem to be MAD turned up to eleven thousand
>>671915
>Volcanoes or bolides only cause widespread cooling if they release a lot of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere
SO2 bombs when? Also would releasing a sufficient quantity to noticeably cool the planet have any side effects - that would seem to be the perfect stick to beat 'muh climate change' activists with.
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61c963 No.671920
>>671630
What's with those 3 clusters in the northern midwest?
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33308d No.671922
>>671920
North Dakota has the largest oil field in the mainland, and Montana has something to do with the air force. I assume it and Wyoming are to kill off ripe rural land or making sure that part of the country gets nuked too because there's be no reason to bomb them. Have no people escape hellfire or traverse to the plains.
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3e6bdb No.671924
>>671922
>I assume it and Wyoming are to kill off ripe rural land or making sure that part of the country gets nuked too because there's be no reason to bomb them.
Montana and Wyoming have nuke silos iirc.
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33308d No.671925
>>671924
Adds up close enough.
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351427 No.671929
>>671919
>I'm pretty sure that this is the entire point of a salted warhead, they just seem to be MAD turned up to eleven thousand
What I meant was there are other elements that can be used for salting that have a shorter half life. Cobalt has such a long half life that you couldn't reasonably hope to claim any of the enemy's territory. Worse yet the fallout would swing around the hemisphere and rain down on your territory as well.
>>671919
>Also would releasing a sufficient quantity to noticeably cool the planet have any side effects
Other than the possibly unpredictable nature of climate modification, possibly a little acid rain. Also some ozone depletion if it was injected at the wrong level of the atmosphere.
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853cfd No.671930
>>671929
China has been working on salted warheads, even though there is no sane reason unless you really want to kill everything living for the next gorillion years
>A state-backed physics experiment using a rare metal could help China’s military develop highly radioactive “salted” nuclear bombs that can lay waste to vast areas for months, according to nuclear scientists.
>The Chinese Academy of Sciences announced on the weekend that scientists at a heavy ion research facility in Lanzhou in northwestern Gansu province had fired superheated beams of a radioactive isotope of tantalum, a heavy metal that can be added to a nuclear warhead to increase the release of radioactive fallout.
>The academy said scientists accelerated the ionised atoms of tantalum 181 to record levels repeatedly as part of an experiment for some military engineering projects to “meet a critical strategic demand of China’s national defence”.
>salted bombs use heavy metals such as tantalum to release a cloud of radioactive isotopes and spread them over a much larger area than a conventional nuclear device to render the space uninhabitable. Tantalum fallout can remain lethal for several months before decaying, while isotopes of other elements such as cobalt can be radioactive for decades.
>The idea of salted bombs was proposed by Hungarian-American physicist Leo Szilard early in the cold war. He warned that such weapons, if deployed, could wipe out humanity by producing enough fallout to radiate the entire surface of the planet.
china national defense = increased fallout and making areas uninhabitable lel
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351427 No.671931
>>671930
>tantalum
See that what I was talking about. Radioactive tantalum has a half life of 114 days as compared to cobalt's 5.27 years. Of course if you really wanted to be a bastard you would use something like iodine or calcium as your salting material.
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62ec0f No.671992
>>671929
>Cobalt has such a long half life that you couldn't reasonably hope to claim any of the enemy's territory. Worse yet the fallout would swing around the hemisphere and rain down on your territory as well.
I thought that was the reason cobalt was used for salting a warhead. With a guaranteed second strike SLBM you're not using the nukes as a way to clear land you intend to occupy, but as a way to prevent anyone from fucking with you out of fear that you'll turn their entire country into an irradiated wasteland (like Fallout but without the vaults and fewer supermutants / more corpses). As such a longer half life that will absolutely definitely fuck up not only the target nation but everyone downwind you give your opponents neighbours a reason to help keep them in line too.
>Other than the possibly unpredictable nature of climate modification, possibly a little acid rain. Also some ozone depletion if it was injected at the wrong level of the atmosphere.
So we just need to plan & execute properly and we've fixed any risk of global warming. Possibly unpredicatable reactions is a pussy reason not to fix a problem - if we want to start terraforming other planets out there we should get some experience with a planet we're pretty familiar with, any problems it causes can be fixed once they become apparent.
>>671930
>there is no sane reason unless you really want to kill everything living for the next gorillion years
WHAT
THE FUCK
IS
MUTUALLY
ASSURED
DESTRUCTION?!?!?!?!?!
>>671931
Would Tellurium 128 work as a salting agent? The half life of that isotope of Tellurium is 160 trillion times greater than the current age of the universe. If you're going to build a 'FUCK EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU SONS OF WHORES!' weapon then you should do it properly after all.
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de5b86 No.672025
>>671650
what did he mean by this /k/?
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96e9b3 No.672114
>>671992
>Would Tellurium 128 work as a salting agent? The half life of that isotope of Tellurium is 160 trillion times greater than the current age of the universe.
Remember the longer the half life, the less radioactive something is.
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17324e No.687445
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9c04e4 No.687455
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