780852 No.638309 [View All]
This is a bread to discuss military concepts, prototypes and final products apart from everyone's favorite 5th gen multirole fighter following questionable theories/doctrines with great investment put behind them only to end up as massive wastes of time, money and resources for everyone involved.
What was the RLM thinking when they not only wanted to make a strategic bomber, but make it an dive glidebomber so it needs to be twin engined because drag except we don't have any engines powerful enough so let's put two DB601s in each nacelle sharing a single propeller through an autistically complicated gearbox while negating any potential advantages regarding engine redundancy on top of creating considerable difficulties in engine cooling.
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187744 No.675425
>>675417
>googled Shinyo
>got this
I'm fucking laughing my ass off.
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15e78e No.675430
>>675423
Japan had the issue is that they only accepted the best of the best. I remember one video I saw showing that less than 5% of applicants were accepted into flight academies and less than half of those graduated. Japan also knew that a long war was doomed to fail, so they probably saw it as a better idea to keep their air groups operating at peak levels as long as they could. Of course, the issue with that is once you fall off that peak, it's a long and fast trip down.
>>675425
You think that's bad?
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03b4d0 No.675431
>>675423
> when you own every airfield in Europe and you aren't planning any transoceanic attacks
>transoceanic attacks
In the event that neither Dunkirk nor Barbarossa happened with Bongs driven out of the mediterranean following the loss of both the Suez and Gibraltar leading to either optimistic prospects for Unternehmen Seelöwe or a successful invasion+surrender of the UK, the Graf Zeppelin along with other german and Italian aircraft carriers could certainly have been used as semi fleet-in-being burger deterrents in the Atlantic to ease logistical pressure on the Japs and raid the occasional lend-lease convoy heading to the Soviet Union/renegade Anglo colonies or even provide escorts for picrel.
>>675425
Based but why are (You) still using jewgle in CY+4.
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363caa No.675435
>>675417
That's a problem as you often can't tell if they're comparing optimum, planned, or storage complement.
But I did a tiny bit of digging, so lets compare the Ark Royal and the Graf Zeppelin
Graf Zeppelin: 5,450m² hangar with 42 aircraft
Ark Royal: : 5,690m² hangar with 60 Aircraft
So the Graf Zeppelin should absolutely be able to carry more aircraft, likely the same with the Jade class.
Graf Zeppelin is heavier, but not massively so, considering it was planned to carry 16x150mm guns and was faster than Ark Royal.
Of course, this doesn't even go into sortie rates.
>>675423
>You can already strike anywhere in the UK and when you still had planes and pilots to spare, the arctic convoys could be attacked too.
True, (purpose built) long range naval bombers were the best solution, arguably a better idea than uboats.
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187744 No.675444
>>675430
2D is life, 2D is love.
>>675431
I like to feed random shit, and I mean random shit into the great communist botnet so I can say I played my part in fucking it.
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03b4d0 No.675466
>>675435
>small amount of aircraft carried
>fucktons of AA compared to other carriers of its time
I see what they were going with.
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03b4d0 No.675522
>>675466
On that train of thought, would constructing destroyer-sized carrier escort vessels whose sole armament consists of as many AA guns one can fit have been a meme or reasonable investment at the time?
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06db17 No.675536
>>675522
> would constructing destroyer-sized carrier escort vessels whose sole armament consists of as many AA guns one can fit have been a meme or reasonable investment at the time?
Aren't guided missile destroyers essentially that? Besides also having a role in anti-ship and anti-ballisitic missile roles, they carry SAMs.
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2eb349 No.675539
>>661731
They would install shitty engines into it, re-skin it, and turn it into a bomber.
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15e78e No.675545
>>675522
That's pretty much the Atlanta-class, which could put out over 17,000lbs of flak into the sky per minute.
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f689b4 No.675581
>>675431
>Gibraltar
The Germans notably avoided action that would bring Spain and Portugal into the war, (hence the blue division fighting only in the east) what was the plan to preserve this in a fight over Gibraltar?
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4eb1ee No.676446
>>675581
IMO Hitler's biggest mistake (besides not actually solving the Jewish Problem) was not leaning on Franco to at least allow some "fanatics" to take over The Rock and declare it for Spain or even "independent" but more or less seal that end of the Med for Axis with Vichy Tangier being the controlling coastal fort/port.
Sink a couple ships in Seuz, and prevent salvage, and Med becomes an Axis lake.
A feckless Mexican like Franco could even fake trying to battle the "rebels", he could even allow UK troops onto Spanish land, then let them get fucked up. Nothing worse than a Spic who is pretending to want to help you.
Play it like "Ok, its British territory, but only if de-militarized". Put some Spic muscle in the ground and make sure ALL the most odious British Law is enforced to the max on the locals.
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03b4d0 No.676456
>>676446
Could an Allied invasion of Spain+Portugal prior to 1943 have had any good chances of success for (((them)))?
Anglos would surely be quite butthurt at losing access to their preferred naval supply route to Asia and press for an invasion of mainland Europe right away lest Nippon sinks their Asian fleets with no survivors.
If the Anglo went at it "alone" could such a large scale invasion have opened big enough gaps in their own defences for a Sea Lion to pass through?
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1927b5 No.676462
>>676456
>>676446
You buds are forgetting that during ww2 Spain relied on Allied goods to survive.
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a13b0a No.677316
>Flexible decks
An idea tested, but never put into service, was the flexible or inflated, air-cushioned, "rubber deck". In the early jet age it was recognised that eliminating the landing gear for carrier borne aircraft would improve the flight performance and range, since the space taken by the landing gear could be used to hold additional fuel tanks. This led to the concept of a deck that would absorb the energy of landing. With the introduction of jet aircraft the risk of damaging propellers was no longer an issue, though take off would require some sort of launching cradle. Tests were carried out with a de Havilland Sea Vampire flown by test pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown onto a flexible deck fitted to HMS Warrior. The deck consisted of a rubberised sheet fully supported on multiple layers of pressurised fire hose. Supermarine designed its Type 508 for rubber deck landings. The flexible deck idea was found to be technically feasible but was abandoned, as the weight of carrier aircraft increased and there were always doubts about the ability of an average pilot to land in this way.
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d3a020 No.677357
What in the goddamn were Nips smoking when drawing up bomber designs, they make Italian WW2 bombers look good.
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4f1c83 No.677358
>>677357
What's wrong with them? That aeroplane on your picture seems to be rather comfy.
t. not a planefag
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8f5331 No.677360
>>677358
This but needs more windows.
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fbcd8a No.677386
>>638893
>Then the soviets made the T-34, a cavalry tank that could spearhead an attack or support the infantry, and that started an arms race that led to the MBT
Yes this is the first case of a tank ever being able to support two roles, it revolutionized tanks with sloped armor, and it made everyone jealous of the glorious soviets and so many other things the kremlin told me
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d3a020 No.677396
>>677358
They all eschewed >1000kg bombloads in favor of m-muh 6000km range, a complete lack of self-sealing fuel tanks until 1943 notwithstanding.
Even Italian bombers carried 2-3 tons of bomb by the time of the Allied landings in Sicily.
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c9c211 No.677424
>>677396
In a place like the Pacific, range really does matter, friend. Italy and Germany only had to bomb out a place you could get to on a bicycle. Japan had to bomb places a continent and a half away.
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b10c1b No.677642
>>677386
I have never seen such anal devastation
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d3a020 No.677646
>>677424
That doesn't excuse their unwillingness to produce short ranged versions with enlarged bomb bays when the Allies were starting to occupy Islands within surfboard range in the Philippines and elsewhere.
If only the H8K had reached mass production as a frontline bomber the glorious 大日本帝國 would've brought an end to the Allies in no time.
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a13b0a No.677705
>This "self-protecting CVAN" was sketched in 1955 as part of a BuShips attempt to forecast warship possibilities. It suggests the promise of VTOL technology (presumably based on the Bell X-13, which was partly funded by the navy, and which could have landed in the "VTOL nets" abaft the island) and of the new surface-to-air missiles.
>The power plant would have duplicated that of the new Enterprise. Its dimensions were 990 feet (wl), 1030 feet (oa), by 132 feet wl by 36 feet, for a light ship displacement of 64875 tons (81150 tons fully loaded).
>Self-defense would have been achieved with the two Talos launchers (fore and aft of the island) and four Terriers (in quadrants).
>With three C 7 catapults, the CVAN would have operated conventional aircraft as well as VTOLs; her air group was listed as eight heavy bombers (A3D size), twenty-four VTOL interceptors, four night fighters (F3H-1N) and sixteen ASW helicopters (HRZS).
>Note that the carrier had no sonar and no ASW missile battery, although she would operate without escorting ships.
>Costs were estimated as $375 million for the lead ship and $340 million for the follow ships. In fact the must simpler Enterprise cost about 451 million, without defensive missiles.
And also let's take a look at a French VTOL aircraft.
>>677646
>>677396
Remember that for the Bettys, adding just self-sealing tanks would have nearly cut their range in half. Japanese aircraft tended to be built to the very limits, with little room for upgrades.
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322b08 No.677708
>>661764
You can always look into RC plane communities, many of them love building late prototypes.
I remember seeing multiple Arado E.555 version that all handled suprisingly well.
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84d0d9 No.677738
>>640160
>It was fucking disgusting from square one so who cares?
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f5ddfb No.677772
Will it be possible to control the air transportation with our minds? I think the immobile people will be useful as the robot mind controllers and the soldiers can summon for more air supports at anytime.
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c4245b No.677777
>>640524
>being retarded
>be literally lower Germans
>sympathizing for subhumans
Read >>640184 and apply yourself.
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f5ddfb No.677782
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d3a020 No.677787
>>677777 (checked)
Digits of truth.
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69ffc3 No.677908
Much of WW1 aviation was rather questionable in a hindsight. But powered heavier-than-air flight was a younger technology than most pilots were, so things like the Lloyd Luftkreuzer did tend to happen.
Also, the Lloyd 40.08 was [spoiler]Hungarian
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69ffc3 No.677912
Good day my fellow aircraft. As you can quite see, I am also an aircraft. I am one of you. Being an aircraft I enjoy doing aircraft things like utilizing the laws of aerodynamics to attain flight.
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438814 No.677958
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69ffc3 No.677974
>>677958
Will kill you and everyone you love. Happily.
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4eb1ee No.682905
>>676456
iffty/50.
On one hand you got always feckless Spics, on the other hand they fighting on home ground and most had exp. from recent Civil War.
On the other other hand you'd have lots of guys who lost Civil War wanting to aid Allies.
On the other hand its lots of rough terrain and tough infantry war of attrition and supply.
But IMO Hitler could've leaned on Franco and Spain would be bristling with pro-Nazi armed militia to ward off any invasion.
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adf7b0 No.682913
>>675522
Horizon-class of the french and Italian navy are just that, dedicated AA destroyers.
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adf7b0 No.682915
>>682913
Italian version has like 3x OTO 76/62 Strales and 2x 25m OTO-Oerlikon KBA to compliment it's fair (and diverse) assortment of AA missiles.
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900dd6 No.683765
>>638309
PANJANDRUM
>oi my fellow Brits, how are we going to blow up the german bunkers during D-day
> just take some weird axel and strap a few rockets to it
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183136 No.683891
>>683765
Is that a newborn Tsar tank?
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c12005 No.683918
>>683891
Did this shit have eleven Maxims in it?
Also this reminds me of a penny-farthing. Was it supposed to drive over trenches like potholes, or roll down the eastern plains and steppes real speedy?
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1fe05a No.683925
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183136 No.687140
Was the concept of a large flush decked strategic bomber carrier sensible for its time?
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525933 No.687142
>>687140
Post-WWII American Navy was really interesting, with getting entirely shafted by crippling budget cuts and the Revolt of the Admirals. While I think the idea was technically viable, I have to assume that the Army/Air Force were right that it would be prohibitively expensive to put them out there in any great numbers.
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56ea0b No.687144
>>683925
Steampunk needs more media exploration, it's such a potentially fun setting.
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c61f3d No.687146
>>687144
I wouldn't call myself a fan of steampunk, but I will say it's the healthiest way to prepare punk.
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6ef075 No.687191
>>687140
>>687142
Elaborate on the concept please?
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183136 No.687210
>>687191
The USN had ordered 5 large flush decked supper carriers before the Project was canceled in 1949, 5 days later after the first carrier's keel was laid down leading some USN Admirals to resign in protest.
These carriers were supposed to carry heavy (relatively speaking) nuclear-armed strategic bombers whose wingspan was too large to fit on the decks of regular carriers, hence the unobstructed flat deck.
Consequently such a carrier would have very limited onboard defensive armament and piss poor to no radar, relying on its escorts for such things.
They would operate as dedicated heavy bomber carriers inna Task force alongside regular carriers, apparently the Chair force wanted the monopoly on strategic nuclear strike capability and so jewed it to death with the argument that the ships would be too expensive.
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a04fb0 No.687215
>>687140
It was pretty retarded. They made all sorts of design compromises in order to operate strategic bombers… which were all totally unnecessary, since the USN had already developed a strategic bomber capable of operating from Midways and were only a year away from adopting it. Had they made it to production they would have actually been no better at their intended role than a Midway, while costing several times as much and being useless dead weight in a conventional war.
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be5289 No.687322
>>687215
>>687210
What exactly would have made them so much more expensive than conventional suppercarriers?
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a04fb0 No.687352
>>687322
They were about as big and expensive as a Forrestal, but had half the hangar capacity (with an even smaller magazine) and would have needed to be accompanied at all times by a special command vessel because they didn't have the sensors to track their own air wing.
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