/k/ - Weapons

>>683069

I'm pretty sure it's my favorite book now just because of the accurate depiction as well as excellent storytelling. Shame there wasn't more, I'll have to read his other stuff.

>>626806

Daily reminder that the space marines did nothing wrong. Blue tree hugging tailheads deserve to be napalmed for the sake of humanity.

Here's a theory.

What if (you) , as in the wearer, are the power source? Everyone keeps saying "muh power sores" but has anyone considered using the human body as the hydraulic element? or at the very least a component of greater or lesser value. Human muscle fibers can be incredibly powerful, and if given an electric charge can quite literally throw a man across a room. If that man also happened to be a meat head body builder, then all the better.

For this you would need an amped up electrical impulse device connected directly onto or into your muscles, or some variation of that. (Note that the imperium doesn't use AI, but instead half living people in place of it, and that most imperium citizens are cyborgs to some degree) Once you have done that, you could likely hook up some kind of energy generation device onto moving parts to charge and power electrical systems that your suit may have, along with amplifying your muscle power by several times, combine that with a suit that can support it's own weight and your in business.

To put on the armor, you could use some kind of ironman/halo contraption to put it on you, or simply have someone bolt it on from top to bottom. Improvements can be made, but this is preliminary stuff

After all, what kind of ultra marine comes off as a scrawny little faggot to you?

>>637899

Six of one half dozen of the other. Once something gets to the size of being fully rounded by its own gravity then you've got a planetary mass object.

>>685536

I somehow doubt that more or less irreversibly turning a man into a weapon by way of sticking electrodes into every muscle in his body and then bolting armor plates to his bones would fly in a modern military, even if it would work.

It'd be metal as fuck though, that's for certain.

>>685066

It might, but the main problem I see with it is creeping under high stress,. At that point, it may be better to use something cheaper like fiberglass, especially if it's just for flak armor.

>>685595

>>685585

For the Emperor, comrades. Every man must be willing to give every fiber of his being for the Emperor, even if the end result is him dying (but who honestly expects him to survive in the first place?)

> Fucks up the nerves, muscles, tendons and bones, this not only screws up the person later in the meantime also makes them weaker.

Cyborgs, every person in the imperium is one to some degree, might aswell go all the way and become a beast of war.

>>685595

As a side note the survival of the wearer is optional, especially when considering that in most lore's, the wearer (ie ultra marine, master chief) pretty much never take off their armor, or only doing so after a number of years. But for the sake of lore, they wear it until they die, which is really all one should expect from a juggernaut cyborg war machine anyways.

>>685536

>>685595

It would be simpler to delete a myostatin repetition from the DNA. Myostatin is a signal protein that stops growth of muscles and encourages destruction of muscles. It evolved to protect from famine, it helps us consume our unused muscle mass when theres nothing else to eat. The more repetitions of the DNA code for this molecule you have is linked to a history of famine for your family/race, the more this molecule is expressed, and the more of a manlet you are. Arabs and Turks have a fucktonne of it, its why they have trouble building muscle mass.

Just delete one repetition of the code and you may increase resting muscle mass for a soldier by 5%. Delete another repetition and you can do more. Eventually you can make humans so muscled, so strong that theycan break their own bones by trying to hard. At that point there are genes you can delete or add repetitions of to make bones stronger.

Its piss easy with CRISPR to make a dude that can punch a Bradley IFV to death or flip Humvees without a problem. In fact a poor country like north korea could do it if they kidnapped a couple of PhDs and bought equipment available on Alibaba.

A fucking mech or exoskeleton is an engineering nightmare by comparison.

>>685767

Genetic modification is a part of that. From what I understand about power armor lore and the like, it takes 3 main things. 1st, is of course the suit, 2nd is the human, and 3rd is the control apparatus, in no specific order, yet.

You must have the man as powerful as is possible and/or reasonable. After that you must have a way to amplify what existing power the man has already to multiply it. Then comes the suit. The suit would nominally be simpler than the man in terms of engineering and manufacture. The suit needs to have a way of transferring the force of the man directly to the suits exterior, and also be strong enough to withstand it. The suit would also be a part of the chain in power amplification, but it would be manually/mechanically operated than electronically assisted (unless your a weak sissy that is). The biggest issue I can forsee with the suits is that it has to interact in such a way that neither man nor machine is digging into the other, meaning there are no tight spots that may pinch his muscles, and similar spots that could be damaged by the mans mass. The man and the machine have to meld in a sort of symbiotic relationship where both promote the other.

Such an undertaking would require a vast amount of knowledge of many subjects. It would need genetic technology, cybernetic technology, and various kind of materials that may exist but are unknown as of now.

I feel that it is possible, only that it would require the utmost sacrifice on the end of the wearer, and many hours of research and development on the side of the creators. There is even a possibility that they already exist and have been perfected in some way, but are hidden for obvious reasons. Or perhaps our very conversation is being taken into account for a silent ongoing project.

>>685740

Let me put it this way, your army is now entirely comprised of biological Panzerjager Ferdinands.

A dank maymay but completely worthless.

>>685767

>Its piss easy with CRISPR to make a dude that can punch a Bradley IFV to death or flip Humvees without a problem.

Unfortunately the laws of physics get in the way, since nothing that we're made out of is strong enough to handle doing either of those things in a vague human shaped/sized package.

>>685800

>Let me put it this way, your army is now entirely comprised of biological Panzerjager Ferdinands.

>A dank maymay but completely worthless.

No one said to exclusively field those kinds of troops, even in the 40k universe ultra marines are uncommon at best, the imperium still uses basic infantry to fight most battles, only calling upon the astartes when a normal human isn't enough.

>Unfortunately the laws of physics get in the way, since nothing that we're made out of is strong enough to handle doing either of those things in a vague human shaped/sized package.

That's where the suit comes in. I doubt punching a tank to death is very economical, but I doubt it would have any problem flipping a military vehicle, even if it's merely tipping it over in a completely non dramatic way. The main purpose of the man being pure raw power isn't necessarily to beat people to death but instead to maintain a moderate level of mobility while being covered in armor and carrying around an auto cannon. Being able to crush a man skull between your mechanized fingers is just a bonus. Add in some space magic jetpacks and shocks (if his bestial legs aren't enough) and you have the man sized equivalent of a yellow jacket made out of metal.

>>685800

>unmodified human never did it

>therefore it cant be done

lol

Bone can increase in density and strength until its far stronger than the aluminum alloy most vehicles are made of, just as strong as steel in fact. We can even make plate like deposits of enamel under the skin and make the dude bulletproof, since enamel is far harder than steel or even most ceramic armor.

I bet an 8ft tall 1000lb dude with bones as hard as steel and enough muscle power to lift five times his own weight can wreck a glorified battle taxi.

>>685804

>even in the 40k universe ultra marines are uncommon at best

Commonality doesn't matter the issue is the selfdestructing drivetrain.

>I doubt punching a tank to death is very economical.

>but I doubt it would have any problem flipping a military vehicle

>>685850

>The entirety of this post.

I'm just gonna teal deer this and tell both of you to open a physics book.

>>685853

>being this afraid of genetically modified giga-chads

How are they self-destructing anyways? Just supply their needs in high quantities and they'll be fine. If all goes well they won't self-destruct, it will however be tedious and risky at best during the process of becoming.

This shit isn't even about taking on tanks directly, hell even in modern combat you wold be better suited with technicals and rpg's to take on armor. In the history of tanks their main role is to attack, that has been their sole purpose in warfare, not as defenders. They are essentially siege machines that can take hard hits because an attacking force is almost always at a disadvantage.

The whole point of power armor isn't to take on tanks, we already have shit for that. It is instead for the purpose of BTFOing common infantry with negligible risks towards the operator. Since most infantry combat has a high attrition rate in the first place, it seems completely reasonable to have a small squad of men capable of soaking up bullets like a sponge as opposed to having entire divisions worth of men soaking it up. It's a game of force multiplication, and a squad of these kinds of men would save countless lives, hell, every bullet, rock, or piece of shrapnel that dings off their impenetrable hide would be the equivalent of a regular dying.

Even if the giga-chads were to die, it would still be worth it in the sheer numbers of lives they saved. To me, the hellish life and death those few would have is a fair trade off to spare countless other regular soldiers.

>>686035

Looking at this list PCTFE has caught my eye, a quick search reveals that it's a badass fucking plastic in that it's resistent to most everything, radiation, electricity, fire, chemical corrosion. It has a high compression strength and low deformation under load (which would make it good for structural/skeletal systems) and can survive in temps up to 400 degrees F. Trouble is that it has been discontinued, but I suspect this is made up for by teflon, which has several of the chemical and heat resistance properties as PCTFE, but from what I'm reading, doesn't have the same strength properties.

If PCTFE can be manufactured or a stockpile of it found (at least in the development stage) it could potentially be one of the key ingredients in suit construction.

Add in some special coatings or other cool polymers/alloys and it would only be a matter of fitting it together.

>>686039

Quick update, some companies do still manufacture/still have reserves of PCTFE, however, a 1x12x12 sheet of the stuff would cost $3k, and weighs 4x as much as the UHMWPE of the same size.

However that's for a sheet of the stuff, a 1in x 6ft rod of it would be ~$1200, which is a little bit better and more useful for structural stuff, but still pricey as fuck (but then again, why spare any cost when building an unstoppable war machine :^)

If there are any rich anons who would like to fund the power armor project or the "PAP" project, we can promise that your first born child will be an armored beast, we just need monies to do it :)

>>629672

Your pic is a bit misleading as it is only 2d and doesn't account for many things, such as wheels+axels, engines, armaments, etc. If you were to cut plates from any armored vehicles and form it to a man, you would still have material left over as there isn't any air space being wasted inside the protective unit.

On top of all that, a vehicle and infantry have two very different roles, those roles primarily being that vehicles gotta go fast/far, and that infantry need to kill other infantry and/or garrison an area, which a suit of power armor would help with as he would be less prone to dying. You gonna clear a house or stand a post in your MRAP pal?

>>629837

>>626804

>The cost of fielding AP ammo vs the cost of armor would make it essentially useless

>So? Go up to 12.7mm, it's not like infantry can't carry it.

This is counter to most modern doctrines of overwhelming firepower, overwhelming as in a swarm of bullets. If soldiers actually had to be marksmen and hit their target instead of mag dumping at a bush, what would come of the world?

They MIGHT decide to include a marksman with a rifle even bigger than what they use now, but it would take a while as they would first need to manufacture additional weapons since these kinds of destructive rifles are purpose built and used for special ops/snipers more often than not. They would then also have to train their troops on it, which may include every pair of boots on the ground. On top of that, they wouldn't be able to carry as much ammo since it's several times heavier than their common small arms round. With it being such a heavy and destructive round, it's unlikely they will want to waste it on pot shots and some randoms running between cover. the closest stop gap they would have would be to have a jeep with a mounted 50. or a sniper carrying a 50. tail a unit, even then they would have to deploy these stopgaps to where they THINK the jugg would be.

That's a lot of trouble to go through to make up for the possibility of maybe running into them. Even at which point it would be advisable to simply run away. RPG's might help, but you'd better fucking hit your mark, because your only going to have a couple rounds at any given time, especially in combat. Still, at that point it would be the same issue with the rocket man as with the sniper, he wouldn't want to waste his limited munition for a chance of MAYBE hitting the guy.

All of that, on top of the fact that such a unit would be used in special scenarios, those most likely involving a protection detail or trying to undo a stalemate, either that or close quarters urban combat, which AT would be uncommon as they would only be expecting armored vehicles, which is what they would use the AT for anyways. Hitting a man sized target with a rifle is hard at 100m in combat, try using a rocket launcher while standing still and only getting one shot for that same target. Seems a bit unreasonable, same as shooting a man with a rocket at less than 50m-25m.

>>686049

You say that like the US govt hasn't blown more money on more useless shit. Hell, if you look at my above posts you may note that the suit doesn't even have to be fucking heavy, as with the development of polymers/alloys and various coatings along with other neat-o tech, the suit could easily be his weight or less, some of that shit weighs like 5lbs, for a 12x12 plate, thats ~10lbs to armor a body segment. Sure it won't be featherweight, but it at most it will double your resting weight, put that on a strong a shit guy has DENSE, not big, dense, muscles and he could easily carry his weight two times, add in an polymer skeleton that's even stronger than the armor itself and the problem of actually supporting this weight goes away, add in some motion assistance calipers to move it and he should have no problem getting around. Sure he won't be the flash on meth, but that's kind of a null point when you can take hits like the juggernaut and have shit to get you around fast anyways (jeeps, helicopters, etc)

Sure, the electrical muscle power multiplies may eventually cause his body degrade to the point of death, but keep in mind these men are not mean't to be eternal gods, but instead thick meatshields that take a long time to grind through, and in the event that he doesn't happen to get btfo, you can simply remove his body, repair the fucked up section of suit, and pass it on to the next test tube ubermensch.

Yeah, the men will take a long time to grow, but no longer than any basic infantry would, even if the supply isn't as steady. With genetic mods they could be grown in a fraction of the time, and if modified to have more powerful brains/higher iq's they could be taught more and sooner. This makes up for their lack of creation rate, although you would need to have a factory to make them regularly, but does the imperium not have chapters dedicated solely to their creation?

Of course they're going to be better in nearly every way than the common man, but they are still men . Regardless, men are not equal, despite what zerkosteinowitz says, this is clear in all things, the same as in wh40k, you have mutant serfs, and you have god-like men. The caste system would enable such a cooperation.

Even still if they didn't get along, it would merely be the next step in human evolution. You could even go so far as to genetically modify women to have bigger hips, wombs, and breasts to birth more supermen.

All of this would obviously cost much more in terms of material and sustenance, but the trade off is that you have much more capable and high quality humans who are better able to carry out their predetermined societal roles.

>inb4 quantity over quality

the imperium still made common use of guardsmen and regulars.

Why are you so afraid of giga-chad ultra men, anon?

>>686057

>>686049

As an addition to that and any other "what ifs", I'm going under the guise that money and ethics are irrelevant to the probability of this development. The ultimate development of this is to elevate humanity (not untermensch) to a state of ultimate being, and to ensure it's survival long into the future, and to be able to fight the inevitable battles that await in the far future.

lots of wh40k references, I wonder if there is any relevance between that universe and our reality?

>>629845

Not be hacked.

>>686389

Hence why AI is considered heresy.

spoiler

>>686419

What about trying to program PCTFE for use as a skeletal structure? Or something of similar strength?

Perhaps we could even have the bones engineered to be carbon based instead of calcium, or would denser calcium bones be stronger?

>>686428

It doesn't have a high tensile strength, only compressive. That means if you drew out a long stick of it, it would be easily bent or broken. This means it couldn't serve as an anchor for muscles… Calcium crystals are better at that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

>Under tensile load, UHMWPE will deform continually as long as the stress is present—an effect called creep.

>>686035

The only attribute UHMWPE has over steel is abrasion resistance and lighter weight. The material is not nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is. UHMWPE is soft, almost like a PE that has been impregnated with soap. That’s why it has great impact and abrasion resistance. But it isn’t a structural material. Dimensional stability, hardness, toughness, etc don’t compare to metals in any way. And it’s not optically clear either. Its best use case is for cladding on ruggedized consumer products. If you want a real structural polymer to make machine components out of, you need glass-reinforced thermosets.

>>686508

Something like rusar composite would be a structural member, because aramid fibers > HMW plastics when it comes to tensile strength.

already are, with the true state of the art nuclear power. there will be disclosure of a lot of this.

a light exoskeleton that is mostly mechanical with only little powered assist and a set of above standard body armor on top of it is the closest thing to power armor for the next decade. something like halo spi armor.

if solid state batteries and polymer muscles get perfected we could see true powerarmor and small mechs

>>626915

a direct hit would be devestating.

but the armor would make proximity hits less effective and hitting a man sized target with an rpg is hard

>>627291

DEUS EST MACHINA!

>>629615

the power armor should not be heavier than a heavily obese man. slight clown shoes cold reduce ground pressure.

the ankle is one of the easiest joints to approximate with an exoskeleton. hell, i can build an ankle structure out of a few metal parts. adding some steel cables as sinnews is easy.

>>637895

there are passive exoskeletons, but no viable full body solutions yet.

adding some clutch powered breaks would be nice too.

the soldier could then have a better body armor coverage.

>>626750

For heavy maintenance tasks and logistical tasks, this would be useful. It could also revolutionise the mining sector.

In terms of offensive use. Maybe not so much simply because of the limitations of the human body.

>>689569

Power Armor would make you more than "man sized".

>>626750

1st, your problem is a power source that is protected enough that doesn't fail in a battle but powerful enough for your "armor".

2nd, while all your metal plates might protect you against piercing bullets, the gaps between your plates won't protect against concussive blasts such as from an explosive, grenade.

So you'd need a metal (material) strong enough between the gaps in the armor to protect against that flaw.

>>689668

I already tried to talk to DARPA with a very, very viable powerplant and actuation system. They are so incredibly corrupt they don't want innovations. It's just another "milk the tax money to funnel projects to our friends" department of the government.

I could give you viable power armor in six months with enough manpower and budget. Then you could decide the level of protection and speed you wanted versus weight. It ain't the stupid supercomputer-slaved money pit that DARPA claims is necessary.

People like me wait in the shadows, because the government is too phenomenally corrupt to do anything that doesn't redirect money to their buddies and owners. One day when DARPA is a real, actual research department, you will see people like me at the fore.

Until, it's just another corrupt and rotten scum bucket holding back tech, funneling it to "foreign interests" and spending vast gobs of money on stupid stuff.

DARPA is the FBI of technology. They might as well install their facility in Tel Aviv with a secondary branch in Beijing. The phenomenally worthless and money-wasting crap they come out with boggles the mind. Try checking out the website that shows where the latest government contracts went, and to whom, and for what.

We don't need deodorant condoms or automatic masturbation gloves or whatever the heck they are spewing these days.

DARPA is Deep State, one hundred percent.

>>626761

You are completely wrong about the powerplant.

Do some calculations. What horsepower would be required to run a one-ton armor suit?

Unlike a one-ton car, a lot of the energy for locomotion is reciprocating energy. This being the case, like a piston engine where the piston being slowed down at the top and bottom of the stroke is actually using piston velocity to accelerate the crank, similarly, energy from a pair of running legs going back and forth, for example, can be fed back into the system. When the legs are at their maximum velocity is when they are passing each other. They then flip their acceleration vectors and begin slowing. This energy does not have to be wasted.

But, anyway, it won't take as much energy to move a one-ton suit of power armor at 40mph as it will to move a one-ton car at ITS top speed, because lower air drag, less energy to move one ton to 40mph than it takes to move a car to 120mph for example.

The power source only has to be about 135hp. I won't divulge actuation systems so a bunch of rice-gobblers can run to the patent office with it, but the power is not very great, and it will easily fit in a backpack-sized bump anywhere the design sees fit to put it, depending on whether the soldier or Marine power armor suit is going to be in a quadruped or biped configuration. Think of the gigantic 62 ton M1A1. 1500hp. How much does the engine weigh?300 pounds?

There is no problem at ALL powering these things, or actuating them. The PROBLEM is the corruption in DARPA and the US Homomilitary in general. Is anyone above first lieutenant actually in possession of a virgin anus anymore? Obama started the Pride Parade.

Nothing is more corruptible than a homosexual. Nothing.

Doable.

Expensive as fuck though. Priced the materials alone, nearly $80k. The tooling is easily 10x that. That's before you even get involved with the actual manufacturing and maintenance costs.

So figure a single suit about $1 billion. Close to a million a year to maintain it.

Power sources is the issue. If there was compact solid state megawatt lenr/zero point energy systems thennwe can talk.

>>690020

Tbh the Halo MkV suits are said to cost more than entire ships/fleets to build

>>629597

Training is ideal. The problem you’re discussing is more about recruitment and 10+ year, that’s technically 3 re-enlistments (standard) so, that leaves a lot of management at hand. It’s difficult to ask people to stay on if they want to honorary discharge, they did their service and commitment. So, that’s a big part of the reason the funding and RND in that direction is tailored to a smaller group.