b25583 No.605582 [View All]
Just to shit on America even more, Russians came out with a 7.62 NATO general purpose machine gun that's better than M60.
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9aa1b7 No.674274
>>674270
>>674269
>not listening to power metal
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cc78a9 No.674282
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>>674274
There is no such thing as 'power metal'. All it is is thrash metal in a major key, which underage faggots who listen to fake chiptune garbage like Dragonforce tried to claim was its own unique unicorn genre. Nobody even used the term 'power metal' when it was supposedly created, that's a modern neologism designed to sell songs on iTunes. Still not as fake as 'nu metal' which doesn't even describe any clearly defined or distinct thing, but pretty fake. Also, it can be really in-your-face gay sometimes and that's queer.
t. Helloween fan
By the way, there is literally nothing more European than gothic metal. Change my mind.
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176d8d No.674285
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>>674282
Western music died with Wagner.
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463b4c No.674288
>>616028
>The only french with that name are gonna be Alsatians
>Alsatians
>French
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600ff1 No.674294
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176d8d No.674302
>>674294
Have you read Decline of the West by Spengler?
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af0407 No.674303
>>674288
>Gets forcibly integrated into "germany".
>10% of the native population literally choose to remain french event if it meant immediate exile.
>90% remaining are second class citizens within Germany.
>Alsace-Lorraine remained an occupied military administrated and was never granted the rights of a German Lander.
>Even when they finally (1911) did it on paper, the military quickly demonstrated they didn't give a fuck about and proceeded to continue to oppress them.
>Revolts and absurdity of the situation even led the Reichstag to a vote of no-confidence against the chancellor in 1913, which promptly disregarded it proving (if there was any further need for it) that the German Reich was nothing but a dictatorship that didn't give two shits about the rule of law. The subsequent parliamentary unrest played a major role in kickstarting WWI (has the military had to prove they were useful to shut up dissent)
>Comes WWI.
>Alsatians are still second class citizens.
>As everyone knows they will massively defect to France, they mostly serve in the marine.
>Comes the end of the WWI… massive naval mutiny that led to the kaiser abdication.
>Landtag quickly asks Paris to send troops as commies infection started spreading.
>French troops where acclaimed as liberators everywhere.
>WWII, almost every Alsatian conscript that ended up POW by the soviet were systematically sent back to Algiers where thousands of them signed up in the FFL, the day 1 FFL themselves having a big alsatians component (the notorious "oath of Kufra" of the French 2nd armor, done after the first successful combat action in the Libyan desert is to free, their home… Strasbourg!).
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600ff1 No.674304
>>674302
Finished it a few months ago.
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e9f2ae No.674306
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Is the MG3 the absolute peak of machine gun design?
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cc78a9 No.674311
>>674306
That's a funny way to spell Besal.
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cd84fd No.674315
>>674306
Aaaaaaaand this thread has gone full circle in a month.
GG.
Just fookin read the thread just a little bit, bud.
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e9f2ae No.674316
>>674315
No one has proved whether there is something superior to the MG3 yet, anon
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9aa1b7 No.674317
How about the MG5, PKP, or AEK-999?
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af0407 No.674320
>>674316
Besides the fact that it's heavy, has a unusuably high rate of fire, is unnecessarily complicated and is high maintenance?
Pretty much every other machine gun, including the MG-34, and with the exception of the M60 is better.
It's gets credit for "inventing" the "universal" machine gun but just like the Sturmgewher it's a not exactly a good gun.
Hell had the soviets come up with the DP-46 5 years earlier it wouldn't even be a debate.
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f2bbf7 No.674339
>>674302
>Have you read Decline of the West by Spengler?
Of course I have. He ignored the bio-racial angle, but as a tour de force of occidental Kulturgeschichte it's second to none; breathtaking breadth and depth. I especially like his take on the culture-boundedness of numbers as concepts, which holds the potential of integrating Platonic idealism with concrete-empirical Aristotelian thinking.
t. True patrician of European extraction listening to Doom Metal while preferring the MG3 as his GPMG of choice
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3b66b4 No.674396
https://invidio.us/watch?v=EF9UThg7PkM
https://invidio.us/watch?v=6hsOrULshco
I don't like how they have to call it a 'salt mashingun, but it seems to be a decent light machine gun. Although it's not a bullpup, can't fire in semi-auto from a closed bolt, and doesn't seem to be able to handle rifle grenades. Also, I still believe that a RoF of 240 or maybe even 120 would work a lot better.
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16a6b8 No.674529
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1de3d6 No.674591
>>674396
The barrel's too thin for proper use as an MG and their flimsy
<durr it's an M16 replacement
will never hold up.
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62d293 No.674592
Guise, what if we took the IDW and made it into a GPMG for shits and jollies?
I want a shitpost in machine gun form.
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af0407 No.674656
>>674396
>Although it's not a bullpup
The layout is stupid.
They really should have just padded the body and put the trigger group more in the front instead of "look guise it has a stock but you can remove it".
Loading is from the top it would absolutely not be hampered by it (even if you could somehow switch belt one handed in a stressful situation which is questionable).
Even if you don't go full bullpup you should have at least a fucking hinge to store it or as desperate shortening for CQC.
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ee1951 No.674684
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>674591
>The barrel's too thin
Adding a much thicker one shouldn't be that bigof a problem, because it's already a quick-change system.
<durr it's an M16 replacement
As far as I understand they don't claim that, they are just marketing it as something completely new and different that's nevah-ben-dun-befo. In reality it's just a very light SAW.
>>674656
It's even more baffling if you consider that it's a striker-fired open bolt weapon, therefore you don't even have to worry about the trigger. Moreover, the FG-42 already proved that you can make a very simple trigger system that works for both open and closed bolt, regardless of the relative position of the trigger group and the feed system. I really don't understand why they don't make a version that can fire from a closed bolt in semi-auto.
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4014f7 No.675491
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https://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/germany-machineguns/hk-21-i-23-eng/
>weight: 7.6-8kg
Why the hell is it so heavy? It barely looks bigger than a G3, and I simply can't see where all that extra weight comes from.
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553c5b No.675496
>>675491
The barrel, gas system, and belt feeding system. Those are generally the heaviest bits on an MG.
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036e61 No.675702
>>675491
At some point, it can be argued that in battle rifles in general, the usual 9.5 pounds of weight is actually beneficial for the more powerful rounds over assault rifles. DMR's having heavier weight is even more defendable. LMG/MMG's weight is often seen as an advantage because it does help stabilize the weapon in the field, sure its a pain to carry the thing everywhere, but when its set up an shooting from a position off the bipod that weight helps to control the burst fire. Weight breaks the back, but it also steadies the shot and mitigates the recoil.
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af7876 No.676267
And now for an autistically specific question: do these pouches rattle a lot less than boxes, or is the difference negligible? I'm asking because the RPD was notorious for being so noisy on the move, and I wonder if that's true for other belt-fed weapons.
>>675496
It doesn't have a gas system, and the feed system seems to be quite compact. There is the bipod though, but that shouldn't be that heavy either. Let's say these add 1-2kg, and we are about 5-6kg compared to a rifle. Does that mean the barrel itself is the main source of that extra weight?
>>675702
My question is not about the employment of these weapons, I just simply can't see why it's nearly twice as heavy than a similarly sized rifle.
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68fda7 No.676283
>>676267
>is a nutsack quieter than a box
Yes, but still noisy, especially when not totally full. As for the HK21, having held a sample here in the US made by Vollmer, most of the weight comes from the barrel and receiver.
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1de3d6 No.676297
>>675491
Adapting the trunnion to allow for a quick-change barrel adds as bit of weight towards the center of the rifle, the thicker barrel, the belt-feed tray, the barrel shroud - ounces turn into pounds, as they say.
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92dcd0 No.676316
>>676267
>soft ammo packs
>go prone to avoid enemy fire
>aw shit i crushed my ammo
>ammo belt resembles earphone wire after jogging
lol
Go steel box or go home.
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5e0c6c No.676349
>>676316
>talking out your ass the post
Ammo belts can take quite some abuse, cans/bags are only there to keep the ammo from getting dirty and to keep them in a decent form of transport. Nobody likes having to deal with a dirty feed block.
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46fc52 No.676353
>>676267
Nutsacks are a good deal quieter due to the fact that you don't have the round bouncing off a hard plastic/metal enclosure with every step.
>>676316
>nogunz:the post
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6e2eaa No.676370
Would modern materials science make fabric belts a viable alternative to metal links?
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5e0c6c No.676373
>>676370
Just got to find a fabric that is hydrophobic, heat resistant and durable as fuck.
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c1b467 No.676374
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>676370
Only if you can make them work with a push-through system. Otherwise they'd be only good for ex-Warsaw arsenal. On that note, the Czech made a push-through belt in the 1950s for rimmed Russian, so I don't think we'll ever have a need for new pull-out belts, even if for some reason we'll see a newly adopted rimmed or belted cartridge. What we will see instead is polymer belt links. Even the Ukies managed to make some:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/23/polymer-disintegrating-belts-pkm-machine-guns/
One thing that would make a lot of sense in my opinion is to go with 5-round belt strips instead of disintegrating belts. Those would be small enough that you wouldn't even notice the difference, yet they'd be still big enough to collect them if you don't want to be too wasteful.
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92dcd0 No.676396
>>676349
>>676353
It's the #1 complaint for the ammo bag, what the hell are you talking about? It's flexible and carrying it damages some types of links (bends disintegrating links) twists up belts, lets in water, and it's just difficult to handle. This is the REASON soldiers literally purchase polymer ammo cans when they can.
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162afb No.676444
>>676374
Or you could just make the links out of steel and use a magnet to collect them after. Or use a non-disintegrating 50 round belt that is easily recovered or linked together in 100, 200, 400, etc. configurations.
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672f96 No.676445
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>machinegun thread
Perfect.
At 1:50, there's an automatic weapon that starts firing with a pleasantly steady and focused bullet stream, and light chattering report. Does anyone know what kind of gun this might be?
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6734d1 No.676492
>>676316
>>ammo belt resembles earphone wire after jogging
Never saw that happen, still a funny thought.
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30ba7d No.679186
>>658382
I would assume not. The AK-107 uses both sides of the the gas block, one to push the carrier back and the other to push the counter recoil forward. In OP's third picture you can clearly see the gas block pinned onto the barrel at the end of the handguard. If I had to guess this thing's claim to fame for being different is the extruded receiver like the SCAR family for production purposes. Most likely that's just a typical short or long stroke piston underneath the handguard.
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1d4770 No.684703
>>676492
I was exaggerating, but it does make failures more likely, the record in Vietnam showed that. Worst is loose ammo, second worst is soft pouches, average is something like a plastic pouch which does crack and let water/dirt in a lot, and best is steel box.
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9ae61c No.688687
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5667ea No.688689
>>605600
>M60 memes
At least you know what it feels like to be wrong, anon. The M60 became "bad" after 30 years of continuous service, no shit a 30 year old gun that's been through several conflicts is going to have performance issues.
The M60 was well liked when it was new and performed reliably when it was new.
>>615774
Several different companies are making M4s, same as the M16s back when they were being made. FN is not the sole supplier.
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5667ea No.688690
>>676445
MG42/03 based on the rof? It sounds like an old cinema projector, but I really can't say. Could be a suppressed MAC-10 on a tripod for all I know.
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41de31 No.688818
>>615802
>French are French, they don't need a reason to deviate from already made agreements.
honhonhon
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432ca8 No.688851
>>674320
>Besides the fact that it's heavy, has a unusuably high rate of fire, is unnecessarily complicated and is high maintenance?
That's wrong though. You forgot to take your pills again?
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96b449 No.688858
>>674320
get a load of this contrarian fucktard.
You do know everything you just said is demonstrably false, don't you?
The MG3 is cheap, extremely reliable and its fire rate can be adapted by changing the bolt weight. Also, weighing 11.5kg is not exactly too heavy when it comes to full-power MGs.
I absolutely hate the anti-wehraboos as much as the wehraboos themselves. Instead of hyping German engineering into the high heavens, you troglodytes reflexively assume the opposite point of view which is just as counterfactual.
If German engineering really were as terrible and overrated as you claim, how bad is Americlap engineering, then?
How awful is Russian engineering?
The world isn't black and white, and especially engineering is autistically nuanced and absolutely unsuited to these broad statements.
If you weren't literally 16 years old, you'd know that.
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8bd042 No.688889
>>688689
>muh 30 years of wear and tear
It's funny how the M60 is the only modern GPMG that seems to have such severe problems. Meanwhile Britain and Germany have no such issues with their equally beat-up MAGs and MG3s (I wouldn't be surprised if the Bundeswehr is still using a few WW2-production receivers to this day), and Britain had a hard time even getting the MAG adopted because their Vickers guns were still working fine after 40 years and >100k rounds.
Besides which, most of the complaints about the M60's durability started in Vietnam, then died off in the 70s and 80s as sturdier replacement parts were phased into service.
And there's no excusing the retarded barrel-change mechanism. There's no good reason why you should need to replace the bipod and half of the gas system with every spare barrel, it just adds a ton of extra weight and complexity.
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19fa24 No.688890
>>688889
>and half of the gas system with every spare barrel
Changing the gas block and tube seems like it would be smart on a MG since they'll get just as hot as the barrel (they're connected to and take gas from the barrel after all) since they too can be effected by heat and are an item that can dump some of the heat from the previous barrel into the new cool one.
I've always questioned why you'd even bother trying to make MGs anything other than recoil operated. Since they aren't really THAT concerned with accuracy to start with (though recoil operated MGs don't look to be hurting for it from everything I've seen) there's fewer parts to break, and it avoids heating up more parts than needed.
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caf4d7 No.689600
>>688889
>It's funny how the M60 is the only modern GPMG that seems to have such severe problems
Mostly caused by way US military usually procures machine guns. US usually buys their machine guns fast and closes production few years later, then uses those guns until those fall apart. Happened with M60 and M249.
>Britain had a hard time even getting the MAG adopted because their Vickers guns were still working fine after 40 years and >100k rounds.
Vickers like most of other early machine guns were over engineered and practically indestructible. 100k rd is nothing to Vickers, just another day in the office.
<In 1963 in Yorkshire, a class of British Army armorers put one Vickers gun through probably the most strenuous test ever given to an individual gun. The base had a stockpile of approximately 5 million rounds of Mk VII ammunition which was no longer approved for military use. They took a newly rebuilt Vickers gun, and proceeded to fire the entire stock of ammo through it over the course of seven days. They worked in pairs, switching off at 30 minute intervals, with a third man shoveling away spent brass. The gun was fired in 250-round solid bursts, and the worn out barrels were changed every hour and a half. At the end of the five million rounds, the gun was taken back into the shop for inspection. It was found to be within service spec in every dimension.
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246006 No.689878
>>616627
>(better seal to get more range, electrical motor to get rid of the crank,
and man-portable variants too.
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246006 No.689882
>>653953
Then what's with the Lugers depicted with "snail drums" and other shit like that?
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