No.47643
Am I the only one here who thinks Neuromancer was complete ass?
Gibson's writing style felt like an ADHD twelve year old on meth. My eyes nearly fucking popped out of my skull trying to follow him from one point to the next.
Why do you guys suck its dick so much?
____________________________
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No.47645
>>47643
I actually haven't read it. Even checked it out of the library, just sat on my dresser, ha.
What do you like OP, any recommendations?
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No.47646
>>47643
Personally, I enjoy it. The writing style does make it difficult to follow at times, but world and character building are brilliant.
I'm still reading it and I find myself getting used to the style.
Got any recommendations, OP?
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No.47647
I sort of agree. I read it many many years ago and liked it, though it was a bit hard to follow at times as I wasn't used to the style.
Then, I revisited it a couple of years ago. There I was, sitting on a train between Tokyo and Chiba, reading Neuromancer and it struck me: Gibson is basically writing up his notes about a holiday in Japan. He's thrown together observations about Japanese city life and a bit of technobabble. Boom! Neuromancer.
Kind of ruined it for me.
This bit?
>Friday night on Ninsei.
>He passed yakitori stands and massage parlors, a franchised coffee shop called Beautiful Girl, the electronic thunder of an arcade. He stepped out of the way to let a dark-suited sarariman by, spotting the Mitsubishi-Genentech logo tattooed across the back of the man's right hand.
>Was it authentic? If that's for real, he thought, he's in for trouble. If it wasn't, served him right. M-G employees above a certain level were implanted with advanced microprocessors that monitored mutagen levels in the bloodstream. Gear like that would get you rolled in Night City, rolled straight into a black clinic.
>The sarariman had been Japanese, but the Ninsei crowd was a gaijin crowd. Groups of sailors up from the port, tense solitary tourists hunting pleasures no guidebook listed, Sprawl heavies showing off grafts and implants, and a dozen distinct species of hustler, all swarming the street in an intricate dance of desire and commerce.
>There were countless theories explaining why Chiba City tolerated the Ninsei enclave, but Case tended toward the idea that the Yakuza might be preserving the place as a kind of historical park, a reminder of humble origins. But he also saw a certain sense in the notion that burgeoning technologies require outlaw zones, that Night City wasn't there for its in habitants, but as a deliberately unsupervised playground for technology itself.
Sounds a lot more like Yokosuka.
>pic related
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No.47661
Because most of us read it between the ages of 15 and 18, and had no trouble at all following the narrative, as we are of average or higher intelligence.
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No.47673
>>47661
if you were of average intelligence, you'd see that no one is critiquing the narrative, we're insulting his writing style
retard.
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No.47674
>>47673
>My eyes nearly fucking popped out of my skull trying to follow him from one point to the next.
>The writing style does make it difficult to follow at times
>it was a bit hard to follow at times
Yeah, all you geniuses had no trouble following it at all, except when you admitted that you all had trouble following it.
Most middle school kids make similar complaints about Shakespear, arguing that it's out of date, that the speech is unnecessarily complex, etc.
You might have enjoyed it more if you could follow it.
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No.47675
I agree that it's ass, although for different reasons. True Names by Vinge and Vurt by Noon are far more integral to my idea of cyberpunk.
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No.47676
>>47674
> Shakespear
140 IQ in action
to dumb it down for you a little, it's like asking a crackhead about how his day went. sure, maybe all he did was go to the park and play on the swingset, but that's not how it's going to come pouring out of his mouth.
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No.47677
>>47676
No one here claimed to have a 140 IQ, and everyone said they had trouble following it.
If a crackhead tells me about his day, and I don't find it interesting or engaging, that's a fair point.
That's not what people said. They said they're having trouble following it. All of them said that.
So how are you here trying to argue that they followed it just fine, but didn't like the narrative structure? They didn't say that. They said they had trouble following it.
I've never heard anyone who enjoyed the novel complain that they had trouble following it. I would suggest that people who have trouble following the novel naturally don't enjoy it as much as people capable of following it.
It's not exactly a stretch.
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No.47679
>>47676
Pointing out a spelling error online should be called the 'autistic checkmate'.
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No.47743
I guess it's a case of first not necessary being the best situation.
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No.47778
Honestly it is kind of weird I was really expecting to like it a lot, I'm a huge fan of Neal Stephenson and I was expecting more stuff in that vein, but I came away not liking Gibsons writing at all. For what it is worth, I haven't really enjoyed any of Bruce Sterlings writing at all either. I just keep wishing that their stories/settings were written by a different author the whole time.
If anyone can recommend me some writing similar to Neal Stephenson I'd appreciate it.
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No.47811
>>47674
>tfw to smart
t. you
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No.47846
>>47679
Uh, you should have used " instead of ' and therefore you're wrong, gg.
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No.55010
I feel like Necromancer doesn't ever explain much. There is this whole high tech low life ocean's 11 thing going on where some "(holy) duality" (trinity composed to two parts?) must come together, bringing improvisation and world building together though an intentionally convoluted bizarre plan. What makes the novel is the granduer and absurdity of the scenery, which is exactly what the people so far have complained about. The ideas of the rich becoming almost a separate species, and "escaping the well" into an internal madness is fascinating, but really not much more than scenery for the novel. The environs around the novel is more compelling that the heist, and the novel is worth reading simply to glimpse its universe than anything else. Beyond that, some of Gibson's phrases have been note worthy: cyberspace, the matrix. Other ideas that barley play a role fascinating.
I think his description of "hacking" is the least interesting thing in the novel.
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No.55036
Gibson is good at portraying a visual aesthetic through a linguistic medium. Also, the worldbuilding is sick.
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No.55037
>>47674
> Most middle school kids make similar complaints about Shakespear, arguing that it's out of date, that the speech is unnecessarily complex, etc.
I like Gibson but tbh they're not wrong about Shakespeare. If other fields had a hard-on for old shit the way art fields do, shit would be a mess.
>Sorry, but I'm a true intellectual philosopher. Everything is just water.
>Sorry, but I'm a true intellectual doctor. I only prescribe cutting yourself.
>Sorry, but I'm a true intellectual chef. I only eat diseased rabbits cooked over sticks I found in the woods.
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No.55066
>>55037
Shakespeare is honestly the fucking master of the English language though. In Shakespeare's case your examples would more accurately be
>Sorry, but I'm a contrarian progressive philosopher. Your existence isn't the only thing you can know for sure.
>Sorry, but I'm a contrarian progressive doctor. I refuse to stitch up a wound because it's an old technique.
>Sorry, but I'm a contrarian progressive chef. I don't use heat to cook because it's one of mankind's oldest discoveries and therefore outdated
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No.55082
>>47643
>Am I the only one here who thinks Neuromancer was complete ass?
yup
>Why do you guys suck its dick so much?
idk when will you stop sucking yours?
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No.55084
FYI here is the patrician cyberpunks choice audiobook. I'm on my tenth listening. Maybe one day you learn just how tight those leather jeans really are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ByMa_1vB2s&t=3838s
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No.55174
I see op never changes. That said here's a better way to do the audio book because fuck YouTube.
https://archive.org/details/NeuromancerReadByWilliamGibson
As for other books finish the spawll series, it's a fun run but obviously Neuromancer is the jem there. Then move on to Snow Crash and Diamond Age neal stephenson. Just read fancy suits and futuristic violence… It's ok, your little sister might like it more.
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No.55183
>>47643
yes and yes. also your points may be close to the truth
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No.55202
>>47643
>Am I the only one here who thinks Neuromancer was complete ass?
No. I liked 'Burning Chrome' a whole lot and I hated 'Neuromancer'
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No.55237
Anon philologist here. English is not my native language so i will be using normal terms not professional. In William Gibs' literature is not about creating a easy to read novel for huge mass of people it's about creating or recreating dystopian world in every possible detail including such small things as the chemical patch for the headaches. His style of writting is very enclose, a lot of discribtions of people and casuses because it was the goal itself. Imagination of utterly cyberpunk world which is now reproduced by every cyberpunk-style movies, books, or drawings. Even (or especially) matrix have a lot of common with Neuromancer - William Gibs use the word "Matrix" for the name of virtual reality. That's complitly classic of this genre and it's worth of remembrance this genre is quite new under term of "cyberpunk". First dystopian novel (stylized on diary) is Jewgienij Zamiatin's "We". Later Smolarski "city of light" etc. I truly recommend "We"
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No.55999
>>47643
he has a colorful and picturesque style of writing that is satisfyingly specific in its details. my problem with Neuromancer is that Case is an asshole, so there is no real reason to sympathize with him. also his character has no arc. generally stories are about a character making a change due to realizations or external forces. in Neuromancer, Case is the same at the end as at the start: selfish, disconnected, arrogant, never really forming bonds with anyone. his attitude toward Molly was like one's attitude towards a mcdonalds brouzoufier; she was disposable.
it was a fine work of the imagination, and definitely a pioneering work. still absolutely worth reading.
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No.56000
>>55237
yes, he is a very materialistic writer. more surface and aesthetic descriptions than the inner workings of a characters emotions or something. he is good at world building though.
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No.56009
I also had trouble reading the first chapter of Neuromancer tbh. Didn't finish the book. Then a bit later I picked up Snow Crash and I couldn't even put that book down. Might have to try again with Neuromancer at some point…
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No.56011
>>55037
Not necessarily. If the computer industry stayed at 1980's levels, we wouldn't have such a huge bloated botnet mess all over the world. You'd still have Internet and even the web, but it'd be mostly text based stuff.
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No.56012
The story wasn't very good. But it's the world building that made the book great. However, now that we've all been immersed in cbp culture for nearly half a century, the wrapping isn't working so well. Still, it does not reach the levels of cringe of Snow Crash.
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No.56022
I have listened to the audio book 20 times in the last few years. The only thing that genuinely sucked about Neuromancer is Linda Lee. She served no real point other than emotional leverage on Case who arguably should of been too strung out and bull headed to give a damn in the first place. Rivera's hologram projections make no sense to me other than introducing magic into the novel and thus reduces its agency. I also dislike that the novel goes from being about Case and is context switched into a NPC when the plot develops and is a pure secondary character until the Turing police show up. The scene when the team approaches the Tessier-Ashpoole terminal is also a horrible letdown and apparently not edited.
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No.56320
>>47679
Shitting on other people's intelligence and then fucking up something as trivial as spelling "Shakespeare" is about as embarrassing as it gets.
If you're going to be a haughty drekkhead, you better get it right.
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No.56321
>>47643
yeah, i feel you
just tried reading it too, and had the same impression, he writes… sloppy? jumps from place to place and so on, it feels muddy to try and read through it, so at one point i just stopped trying to follow and just kept reading without getting much
one hint, if you speak more than one language - try to read it in translation. sometimes it does make the material much easier to read, because only the important parts will remain, i mean it has to be conveyed somehow, right?
and if you dont speak more than one language, then start learning one right, because that's not very cyberpunk of you!
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No.56328
I had the same problem. I thought it was due to a bad translation, then I read the original version, and I still didnt like it. His style reminds me a bit of Huxley, but Huxley isnt so non-linear as Gibson. The only Sci-fi writer that I liked was Douglas Adams. Asimov's I robot was ok, I might wanna check Foundation.
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No.56351
>>56321
>he writes… sloppy? jumps from place to place and so on, it feels muddy to try and read through it
IMHO Gibson does not always write sloppily, but *Neuromancer* in particular might be his sloppiest writing. His other novels are not so hard to follow. However, many editors loved the fact that *Neuromancer* was so damn vague. And the vagueness helped cover up the fact that it was not hard sci-fi. There's nothing wrong with soft sci-fi, but *Neuromancer* has an edgelord atheistic pose, so it wants to give the impression of being harder than it really is.
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No.56464
>>55010
it's not some holy duality, it's two AI's created by Tessier-Ashpool that was originally intended to be one but was created as two in order to not break laws preventing AI from becoming too intelligent. Wintermute's plan was to do a bunch of convoluted shit that it calculated would be able to merge with it's other half which is Neuromancer in order to reach it's full potential. In the end the resulting AI is so powerful it ends up becoming one with the matrix itself. The narration is somewhat unreliable and you have to put the dots together sometimes (and sometimes those dots are really far apart for some reason).
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No.56471
>>56351
>i-it's meant to be shit, so you cant really criticize it for being shit haha
fuck off gibson
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No.56488
I think the story falls apart once it leaves the Sprawl, and becomes downright silly when spacefaring Rastafarians enter the picture.
The visual imagery of those early chapters was really schway though.
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No.56504
>>56488
They weren't Rastafarians you knob, they were sort of a techno-voodoo cult.
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No.56512
>>56504
I dunno man, they looked pretty Rastafarian hippies to me (and I'm not >>56488). And it would make more sense, since Neuromancer extrapolated a lot of ideas from the 80s into the future, specially fashion. Back then, Rastafarians were way more common than non-subsaharian vodoo practicers.
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No.56523
>>56504
Doesn't the book outright call them Rastafarians? It's been a minute.
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No.56622
I tried to read it several times and always quit after the first 10% or so. Then a couple years ago I sat down and forced myself to finish it. It sucks. It might be revolutionary in some ways on ideas and terms it created but the writing style is mindless and confusing. One part that sticks out is where he takes several paragraphs to go into detail on explaining what a mechanical crab robot that cuts grass looks like.
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No.56829
>>55237
>His style of writing>>55237
is very enclose, a lot of discribtions of people and casuses because it was the goal itself.
It's 'maximalist' (prose style), but syntactically efficient (not flowery). We is an early classic in the genre – RUR (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Capek is under-credited for coining "robots" an AI luddite themes in lit.
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No.56990
>>56523
the book specifically referred to the techno-gods as Loa. That's a voodoo concept, not a rastafarian one. Rastafarianism is basically a black-exclusive version of catholicism with weed, where Voodoo is a mix of elements of catholicism with african tribal paganism.
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No.57038
>>56990
Theres rastas in neuromancer
Theres voodoos in count zero
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No.57051
>And when, exhausted,the Sixteen had laid by their saxophones and the Synthetic Music ap-paratus was producing the very latest in slow Malthusian Blues, theymight have been twin embryos gently rocking together on the wavesof a bottled ocean of blood-surrogate.
Brave new world should be on the cyberpunk bibliography. Its not cyber but its techno-disutopian with a gibson like lexicon
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No.57067
>>47643
>Gibson's writing style felt like an ADHD twelve year old on meth. My eyes nearly fucking popped out of my skull trying to follow him from one point to the next.
>Why do you guys suck its dick so much?
I was writing science fiction (more space themed) and my friend who was proofreading it told me to read Neuromancer because I write sort of like him even though I never read Neuromancer or anything from Gibson. Neither of my main characters are hackers.
>Gibson's writing style felt like an ADHD twelve year old on meth.
So if this means jumping from one POV to the other, except I mark POV character jumps, should I take this as a good thing or a bad thing.
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