/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Freedom is nothing more than the authority of God enshrined against the authority of men.

>>855957

Freedom is the authority of the individual enshrined against the authority of God.

>>855902

>they didn't tolerate degenerate acts like homosexuality

You're the ones that are spreading that.

This is the same thing as jihadism. In other words, Coming up with your own interpretation of the Bible, or anything else, then creating a new movement - that has nothing to do with Christ or the Gospel - where you kill people who don't pledge allegiance to you. In reality, you strive against God while calling yourself God, not believing that you will be judged for your sins against Him. If the Lord wants to give people liberty, then no person is going to be able to stop Him from doing so. If the Lord wants to take it away in His timing, there is no reason why He, as God, somehow has to rely on you to do it.

What jihad-types and bizarre cultists believe in is a weak, false deity that has to rely on them to get anything done. This is because they believe in a loose concept, rather than an all-powerful being. They don't believe their god is able to do anything without them; That's why they take it on themself to start chopping heads off. In reality, they are servants of satan, accusing the true believers who are truly obedient to Christ alone. As Christ said, "the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." And yes, that includes Roman Catholicism, whether it is progressive (similar to subversive judaism), "uber-trad" (more similar to islamic jihadis), or any other flavor.

As it says in 2 Corinthians, "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." Amen.

>>855958

Why do you want another man to control you?

>>855902

>The Ancient Kingdom of Israel is our example for what a Christian nation should look like and they enforced religious values with brutal ferocity. They didn't tolerate people worshipping false gods, they didn't tolerate degenerate acts like homosexuality, and they most certainly didn't tolerate people who blasphemed God.

Tell me you haven't read the Bible without telling me you haven't read the Bible.

>>855902

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz4x3aNAZMs

>>855902

well, at least you are admitting it is a slave religion. Honesty is rare among your kind

>>855972

seethe

>>855959

Since the first half of your post is ad hominem and modernist drivel devoid of any substance I will not respond to it.

>What jihad-types and bizarre cultists believe in is a weak, false deity that has to rely on them to get anything done.

By saying this you are saying that The God of The Bible is a weak false deity because God used Prophets to spread His word rather than doing it himself both in the old testament and in the new testament. God also used Babylon to punish the Israelites when they failed to follow His commandments. So by your definition God is a weak false deity.

>>855960

If you think nobody controls you, you are sorely mistaken. Anarchy doesn't exist because humans are naturally hierarchical. Unless you are the supreme dictator of your home nation, you are under somebody else's control and even then there are other people who can control your actions such as other more powerful nations. Do you think that you are free because you have the legal right to commit fornication, adultery, sodomy, substance abuse and all other forms of debauchery? If that is your idea of 'freedom' then you are a slave to sin and the people who provide you with the means of committing it. If there is going to be a standing government (which there always will be, whether you like it or not) it should be Christian in nature because God's law is perfect; If you believe that any other law should be enforced in its place such as secular law codes based on the vague ideas of freedom and human rights (which I repeat are nowhere in The Bible) then you clearly think that man knows better than God.

>>855965

Clearly you haven't read The Bible

Deuteronomy 22:24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Leviticus 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death.

Leviticus 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

These are laws given to them by God and they were destroyed because they didn't follow them.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

>>855969

I completely agree with this video.

>>855972

Considering how many other religions have been destroyed by Christianity, it is clear that slave religion is superior.

>>856005

>If you think nobody controls you, you are sorely mistaken

God is my only master, may it ever be so, and may He strike me down were I to ever yearn to be controlled by some "strong man" like an effeminate sodomite.

>>856031

>Separation of Church and State

>Revelation 11:2

Makes no sense.

State obviously has to be under the moral guidance of the Church or it necessarily pushes satanic stuff.

>>856032

Papists mixing up their church and God again

>>855959

>>855902

I want you fellas to remember.

Romans 12:19

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

It is for God alone you think these people are going to get away with what they done?

Come on bro let God deal with these people, you and I could do is plant seeds but nothing you say or do is going to convince them other wise

T.Argued with multiple people and went leaps and bounds on proving them wrong whether it be athiests, mudslimes, homos or what ever.

>>856047

It is true that allowing place for the Lord’s vengeance is the main practice, but the other side of God with this is a sin to always do this and never take revenge when God gives You the instrument of wrath. The wrath is always bigger when we sacrifice vengeance unto God if the enemy does not repent.

You might say well God never gives it to us. Wrong. God does. Jesus does also. “But Jesus is only love!” And love is justice. If the enemy makes it personal against us, Jesus will allow us to make it personal against them. Especially when we did nothing but pray in church for thirty years and watched God let them destroy the country without consequences, corrupting our minds and bodies but not able to touch our hearts or soul. They tried to come for that, too, so we are given the instruments of destruction. And we do use them. So we must shoot the arrow more than three times, until the enemy is consumed. We must fire the whole quiver of arrows to set the kingdom right again.

2 Kings 13:14-19 kjv

> 14Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. 15And Elisha said unto him, Take bow and arrows. And he took unto him bow and arrows. 16And he said to the king of Israel, Put thine hand upon the bow. And he put his hand upon it: and Elisha put his hands upon the king's hands. 17And he said, Open the window eastward. And he opened it. Then Elisha said, Shoot. And he shot. And he said, The arrow of the LORD'S deliverance, and the arrow of deliverance from Syria: for thou shalt smite the Syrians in Aphek, till thou have consumed them. 18And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed. 19And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice.

>>856021

Freedom at the time of the founding fathers was very different from the freedom we know today. Homosexual rights was unthinkable in the 1700s and 1800s. But the left has used this idea of freedom to justify insubordination to God which we should not tolerate.

>>856027

I guess God is not using all the Baptist missionaries who go throughout the world teaching The Gospel to people who would otherwise have no way of knowing Him and the evangelism God commanded us to do is pointless since we can't work miracles like The Prophets can.

>What you are proposing has none of that. It's just you "enforcing values" with "brutal ferocity." In other words, no different than what some mullah does in the middle east.

The muslims are right about some things.

>You still didn't answer the fact that God is clearly still working today and inflicting His judgements on the nations of the world regardless of what you do.

I didn't answer it because it is true. God is punishing America and Europe for their collective debauchery, but here's the problem; We (you and me among other people) are going to incur God's wrath if we don't fight the evil that has infected our homelands. When you stand before God at Judgement and he asks you why you stood by and did nothing while Christianity was under attack and souls were lead astray are you just going to tell Him 'there was nothing I could do'? At least if you try and fail you can tell Him 'I did what I could'.

>You didn't answer the fact that you are powerless to lift a finger in one direction or another in this regard.

I by myself am powerless, but a large number of like-minded people can accomplish a lot of things.

>>856030

Excellent. Now go destroy the enemies of Christianity.

>>856031

Sounds like church/state separation is a tool of the antichrist to destroy The Holy City.

>>856045

Baptists kneeling to the satanists again.

>>855902

Not allowing people to not worship other gods, or not allowing them to be gay, or other degenerate things like that won’t actually stop them from doing it. Besides, when did Jesus slaughter the Pharisees for not thinking that He was God?

>>856205

Liberties are nowhere in The Bible therefore they are not God-given.

>Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

>18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

>19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Killing sodomites isn't evil because God commanded the Israelites to do it. Therefore killing sodomites is recompensing evil with good.

>Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

>44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

>45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

This is clearly a doctrine for individual practice and not for the administration of justice. Otherwise it would contradict the very numerous laws God gave us in the Old Testament that command us to punish certain crimes with death.

>For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

>4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

Yes, this is the spiritual war all Christians fight. It does not say that we must abstain entirely from physical war.

Jeremiah 51:20 You are my hammer and weapon of war: with you I break nations in pieces; with you I destroy kingdoms.

>The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.

This verse is literally saying that we can force our enemies into submission if we follow God.

Your last two citations have nothing to do with anything said so far.

>>856206

>Not allowing people to not worship other gods, or not allowing them to be gay, or other degenerate things like that won’t actually stop them from doing it.

I guess we should just legalize rape and murder since making things illegal doesn't stop them from happening.

>Besides, when did Jesus slaughter the Pharisees for not thinking that He was God?

In 70 A.D. when God let the Romans sack Jerusalem.

>>856207

>Liberties are nowhere in The Bible

They literally are. The word liberty itself is explicitly in the Bible in 2 Corinthians, as quoted already here. >>855959

The concepts for this are further spelled out through following the commands given by Christ through his law, which is the law of faith. This is also known as the law of Christ and is referred to by James on more than one occasion as, guess what it is? The law of liberty. See James 1:25 and James 2:12.

And yes, the term "liberty" in English was consciously chosen from its occurrence and definition in the 1611 King James Bible, which is the only Bible that any English speaker used for three hundred years to follow. As Lincoln consciously referenced this concept directly from the Bible itself when saying, "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty,"

And again I reiterate what God said on the sermon on the mount, clarifying what our obligations are as Christians under His new law (which fulfills and surpasses the old Law, see Hebrews 8 and 9). He says, quote,

>Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

>44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

>45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

And why is this? Because,

>Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

>18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

>19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

It can't be any more clear. We are to trust in Christ as the executor of vengeance.

>>856207

>>856208

God gives people certain inalienable rights, and what the Lord gives (life, liberty) He also ought to be the one to take away. Otherwise that's simply a violation of the Moral Law on your part, against things like murder, stealing and so on. You say people have no right to property, so you can take if you feel justified. And so on.

What you're advocating is just going out onto the street and killing random people who you think are sodomite without any trial or due process. It's basically Robespierre's "reign of terror" from the French Revolution period, with nothing other than pure mob rule. A perfect stage to enact satan's schemes against the brethren. By placing false accusations against them in a public square and riling up the senseless communistic mobs to lynch them. What you suggest has been tried before and has failed, and it seems you haven't learned from history. It is the practical result of such a theory of reducing men to animals with no shred of dignity, without a right to trial, self defense, to stand before their accuser, or even a right to live! What you suggest in your opening comment, therefore, is nothing except pure anarchy and madness.

It is in truth, as we have learned all too often from past experience, the social darwinistic rule of the mob, and this is despite whatever frills and pomp you might try to place on it, by turning your eyes from the atrocities, in that brief moment of time while it withholds its execution of you as well.

>This is clearly a doctrine for individual practice and not for the administration of justice.

We weren't talking about laws though. That is another subject. We would indeed be better with laws against sodomy. Sodomy is not a right. But that's not the point, right now. We were talking directly about whether God has given us liberties in the first place. You want to reject that entirely, according to the opening post. If you say there is none, then all bets are off. People just kill each other at random if they feel like it, and they individually justify themselves by saying the person they murdered did something they considered bad. It's a lot like the world before the flood - filled with violence.

Remember that before, you said that no liberties exist. Maybe though this reaction was simply the predictable result of a fit of impotent rage at the modernists. What you do not or do not want to understand is that it is exactly this framework when properly administered that keeps in check the same modernists who seek so much to abuse and undermine it, and would also have everyone else do the same; as they clearly have to you through their teaching (which you have accepted) of a falsification of history. Many of you have no awareness of the Biblical elements and concepts playing a role in all of this simply because modernists have stripped it out of their falsified historiography. You aren't even aware of it. In reality you are nothing but their pawn so long as you remain on the Hegelian dialectic set up by them, which essentially tells you that you must be either left wing or reactionary to the left wing: while hiding the common (talmudic) assumptions they have seeded beneath undergirding the entire left-right structure, such as their falsified history of events, including the six million holocaust, Judaism as a specific race, etc.

>It does not say that we must abstain entirely from physical war.

Did I say that? I am simply reiterating the fact that we cannot just degrade everyone to the level of an animal with no right to life, for the sole reason that we are mad at the modernists. Violence is not the answer here. If we are saved we see that God is in control of all things, even now.

>>856207

> In 70 A.D. when God let the Romans sack Jerusalem.

What kind of logic is that? Did God let the Ottomans sack Constantinople by that logic?

>rape/murder

The thing with that is that it’s rather easy to minimize those things, which is why we have the police and the second amendment. You can’t do that with homosexuality and other religions. Chinese Communists try to stop Christianity’s spread there, but that doesn’t work, as people convert there all the time. Homosexuals have always existed, it’s just that now they’re more open about it. Even if you were to behead every gay or nonbeliever you could, you’d be mistaken if you think God would have a place for you in heaven

>>856208

It should be pretty obvious that the liberty that The Holy spirit brings, does not include sodomy, blasphemy, or idolatry. These are evil things and God does not bring evil. Simply because you have redefined the word 'liberty' to mean debauchery, doesn't mean that God now stands for debauchery.

Hebrews 8 and 9 explain why animal sacrifices are no longer required to obtain God's mercy. It does not abolish the old law. If you think that it does, then you clearly think God is some sort of charlatan who makes mistakes and then has to fix them later. Or maybe you think God is a moral subjectivist who suddenly changed his mind and now putting sodomites to death is a bad thing despite him commanding it to be done previously.

And no matter how many times you copy and paste those two passages, they still don't support your position. Loving your enemies doesn't mean to give all criminals a free pass.

>>856209

>You say people have no right to property

No I do not. The right to property is probably the only right that actually IS in The Bible. God said 'Thou shalt not steal' therefore property is a concept given to us directly by God. However freedom of speech, religion and sex, are nowhere in The Bible. The laws God gives us against blasphemy directly contradict free speech, the command 'Thou shalt have no other gods before Me' directly contradicts freedom of religion and the laws against sodomy, fornication, and adultery clearly contradict your 'right' to sleep with whoever you want.

>What you're advocating is just going out onto the street and killing random people who you think are sodomite without any trial or due process. It's basically Robespierre's "reign of terror" from the French Revolution period, with nothing other than pure mob rule. A perfect stage to enact satan's schemes against the brethren. By placing false accusations against them in a public square and riling up the senseless communistic mobs to lynch them.

Now you're just straw manning. I never said anything about getting rid of due process. Leviticus says that no one can be put to death on the testimony of only one witness so due process is clearly supported by The Bible.

>What you suggest has been tried before and has failed

What I suggest is that we follow and enforce the law of God. The law that built Ancient Israel and provided the foundation of Europe's incredible civilizational success. If these are what you consider failures, then I'm fine with living in a 'failed' civilization.

>It is the practical result of such a theory of reducing men to animals with no shred of dignity, without a right to trial, self defense, to stand before their accuser, or even a right to live!

In my opening statement, I clearly said and I quote "The only right anybody has is the right to live a pious Christian life." That right alone would entail both life and due process, so I don't understand why you are making these accusations. I stand by the statement that freedom is a fake value because if freedom is the ultimate good, then all law is evil since law is inherently antithetical to freedom. And these awful things you are describing are what a society predicated entirely on freedom would look like. I would go so far as to say that this is what The USA has become. It's mob rule precisely because the anarchists and other assorted leftists value their own personal freedom over law and order. They despise us because if we are allowed to influence law in any way, we would diminish their freedom to commit things like sodomy and adultery.

>>This is clearly a doctrine for individual practice and not for the administration of justice.

>We weren't talking about laws though.

I was.

>Remember that before, you said that no liberties exist.

I did not say that. I said that the only right anyone has is the right to live a pious Christian life.

>>856209

>What you do not or do not want to understand is that it is exactly this framework when properly administered that keeps in check the same modernists who seek so much to abuse and undermine it

It has failed time and time again. It failed in France, it failed in Russia, it is currently failing in The US. Everywhere that enlightenment 'values' have taken root they have given way to anti-Christian regimes. Enlightenment values are leftist by their nature. That is why it is necessary to forsake enlightenment values because they are nothing more than a secular fabrication. They are fake. Piety, honesty, virtue, dignity, these are real values and our laws should be designed to be most conducive to these things, not individual freedom. Luckily for us, God already gave us a law code that perpetuates these things. Unfortunately, God's law doesn't guarantee you all of the rights the US Constitution does. The rights that are not in God's law are fake and should not be considered rights to begin with. My ideas are not new. Literally the entire world used religious values as the basis for civilization prior to the 17th century.

>Violence is not the answer here. If we are saved we see that God is in control of all things, even now.

If you think that the leftists are going to listen to your arguments, you're delusional. They despise us, God, and everything having to do with God on principle. You cannot convince them to leave us alone and let us live peacefully, they won't allow that. Violence is the only answer now. I still don't understand why you are so afraid to stand up for yourself and your fellow Christians. Yes, God is in control at the end of the day, does that mean you're free from all obligation? NO. 1 Timothy 5:8 says that a man who doesn't provide for his ilk is worse than a non-believer. It is your God-given obligation to protect your family and your fellow Christians from harm even if that means resorting to large scale violence.

>>856210

>>In 70 A.D. when God let the Romans sack Jerusalem.

>What kind of logic is that? Did God let the Ottomans sack Constantinople by that logic?

Yes.

>The thing with that is that it’s rather easy to minimize those things, which is why we have the police and the second amendment. You can’t do that with homosexuality and other religions.

Sure we can. We did it for hundreds of years already.

>>856242

>>856251

>because if freedom is the ultimate good, then all law is evil since law is inherently antithetical to freedom.

Nobody ever once said that in the first place though… Where are you getting this stuff from? Your fake history again? Who exactly said that which you are arguing against?

>The rights that are not in God's law are fake and should not be considered rights to begin with.

In 2 Thessalonians, Paul tells the church that they should withdraw from those that walk disorderly. He says nothing about throwing those that walk disorderly in prison. That is the state's role. In 1 Corinthians, chapter 5, Paul talks about how we deal with those who hold a doctrine or pattern of living contrary to the word of God. He says in 1 Corinthians 5, verse 13, "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

>I would go so far as to say that this is what The USA has become.

The things you speak of about anarchy only exists because of Judaizers who want to undermine the country. That's why you see people flag-kneeling. They want to teach people a fake history of this country, one that involves terms like "enlightenment," and make the U.S. look as bad as they possibly can to support their argument. They are the ones seeding discontent themselves. Create a problem, propose a "solution."

I know at least one person, me, who will not be deceived by this ploy. You all are evil and I am well aware of these methods, and I do not believe they will work. Even if they do, then when Christ returns you will be judged as enemies of the cross.

I suggest here, and I rebuke the fact that you've sought only to bring other people into physical bondage through violence, and you taught lies all along, about yourself and others, from the beginning even until now. You are not what you say. In reality you are nothing but satan's puppet, as it says in Romans 6, "servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity," and you utter lies all the day long until the day you enter the grave where you mouth will be silenced. I can see through the lack of biblical basis in all that is being proposed.