bdfcdb No.849524 [Last50 Posts]
It seems impossible to me to view this as literal, but I do not like to venture into a figurative interpretation unless that is what is indicated by the texts (as when God says the "day" you eat the fruit you shall surely die). The biomass of all of the animals was too large to fit in the ark, there was not enough water to cover the whole Earth, and there were civilizations that lived through the flood.
Does the original Hebrew explicitly say that the flood covered the entirety of the planet and wiped out all of human life? I have heard that there may have been regional floods in that area during the time of Noah, which indicates that the flood story may be hyperbolic, which is seen throughout Genesis (Joseph collecting more corn than the sands of the sea). From a logical point of view, how can I make sense of this story?
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5df521 No.849527
God created nature and has full control over it.
It is only a pagan superstition to believe patterns in nature could not be changed.
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087a86 No.849542
>>849524
>From a logical point of view, how can I make sense of this story?
First of all, it is not very productive for the limited, created being to question the ability of God to perform any act required. But there is plenty of space for interpreting the words of the Biblical account in the first eleven chapters as they stand in the text without removing or rewording passages as many modern critics do. They do this only to signal their loyalty to things outside of the Bible rather than attempt, as true Biblicists would, to find the true answer which fits everything we know both inside and outside of the Genesis account.
The current mainstream "literalist" narrative of events does not need be the only possible explanation that fits everything stated in the text. However, it is required before this to cast off any pretext that a significant number of people are going to accept a departure from established formulas of the present day, even if these formulas may well have (minor) flaws in them without deviating from the Biblical account.
Anyways, the literalist view of modern day was largely shaped by the research of George Price and Henry Morris, and this is known today as "flood geology." But as may clearly be seen, adherence to these men's writings is not a requirement to believe the account of the first eleven chapters of Genesis as written.
Now let me briefly proceed to help explain the situation as best I can. You are indeed right that sometimes a hyperbole was employed at times in the Old Testament when its context made clear the usage. This stands in contrast to other places in Genesis and elsewhere that by their very structure insist on a highly literal interpretation in the way the passages themselves are framed, for instance the six days of creation being literal solar days according to Exodus 20:11, with day signifying the sabbath day used in the same sentence to indicate the relationship.
Consider the statement, just for one example, in Genesis 41.57 (KJV):
>And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy corn; because that the famine was so sore in all lands.
Now the true meaning of this statement is clear. It may be clearly maintained with solid Scriptural authority that the nations of China or Scandinavia were not included in this. There is no reason not to think here what is meant by this is all countries in the known world.
Give another example, 1 Kings 10:24 -
>And all the earth sought to Solomon, to hear his wisdom, which God had put in his heart.
Or Daniel 2:39, which was a reference to the empire of Alexander:
>And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
So we see by the plurality of evidence that all the earth in these cases referred to the known world. The empire of Alexander never extended over China or North America, indeed it did not extend over much of continental Europe as well. At least, not if we take this in the normal, literal and martial sense of what an empire is.
With that in mind, let us consider another passage with relevance to the account in question. It says when describing the plague in Egypt given in Moses' day in the Exodus account the following:
>And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt, and rested in all the coasts of Egypt: … For they covered the face of the whole earth, so that the land was darkened; and they did eat every herb of the land, and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left: and there remained not any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.
Exodus 10:14-15
Here is another instance where the phraseology "the face of the whole earth" is employed, but it refers specifically to the plagues which we know dealt with Egypt, and this even is made clear by the last statement in the above citation. Another example:
>He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me:
Numbers 22:5
This time, the region includes the face of the whole earth but is outside of Egypt.
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087a86 No.849543
So clearly by these above examples it may be seen that the conditions described by the deluge of Genesis would have covered the whole face of the earth in the region occupied by Noah and the descendants of Adam at that time, and that without God giving instructions to Noah that the wildlife of the region which they inhabited would have been wiped out as well.
But what about the rest of the world? It is clear that for such a cataclysmic flood to occur where the water levels were rising for 40 days (possibly from a lower, pre-flood ocean level than today's ocean levels) and at one point they covered all of the mountains of the region of the Middle east, it is reasonable to assume that the water from this would have spread very far out in every direction from this, but it is not required to say that it covered the Himalayas, for instance. It is enough that it fulfilled everything that the Genesis account said and wiped out every trace of pre-flood civilization, probably also resulting in a huge rise in the ocean levels afterward, which is likely where the excess water drained off to, resulting in new continental shorelines close to what we see today. It is also interesting that not soon after this, are the earliest remnants of above-ground ruins in Egypt, such as the Saqqara step-pyramid of Djoser and designed by Imhotep. Earlier ruins than this seem to have been destroyed and only the underground components appear to have remained behind in anything like an intact condition, as we would expect from such a catastrophic event, which was possibly a result of huge volumes of superheated water being released from deep underground, rising as steam from the oceans, clouding up and finally raining over the middle east region.
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9c2f1f No.849996
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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713b07 No.849999
>>849524
>how do I sledgehammer an inconsistent collection of books translators still can't come to a consensus on into fitting into a logical system?
You don't. The tradition that is the Bible failed if that's the standard you hold it to. Only nature meets that standard.
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37b073 No.850007
>>849524
>It seems impossible to me to view this as literal, but I do not like to venture into a figurative interpretation
It won't work. Its a complex sublime narrative, that relates all three arks, Ark of Noah, Ark of Covenant and new covenant - Ark as Mary/Church, because last one repeats flood narrative, but caused by serpent instead:
>Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Now there no reason to believe Noah wasn't a pagan, just like Gilgamesh. For even Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were worshiping El Shadday, as only part of their Canaan pantheon, prior to reformation of jewish religion:
>Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.
So keep that in mind when you're trying to understand it.
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7b0a18 No.850011
>>849524
I think it's time to start putting the pieces back together. Whether the Bible is perfectly accurate to the letter or made up silliness for the lols doesn't matter. A story is important for the morals and thoughts contained within regardless. The Israelites didn't execute justice and were destroyed for it. The jews executed injustice against God and were damned for it. You can get some pretty important messages from those two ideas alone regardless of how accurate the tiny details were. To quote one of my favorite Christian bands, Fireflight, "Fiction and reality collide. Face the sense of busted up inside."
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cb9089 No.850090
>>849524
Nearly every culture has a flood story, and many even have Boat or Ark stories. Completely disparate cultures at that. From variations among the Middle East to Africans to Native Americans to Asians. That should raise alarm bells for you, I would think. It's easier to believe that they had a shared cultural memory that diverged over time than to believe it was all coincidence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
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4b8009 No.850126
>>849524
>there was not enough water to cover the whole Earth
becoz it was only Atlantis, duh
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bdd9fb No.850133
The Arc is the Roman Catholic Church. Those outside are everyone outside the church.
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e08f35 No.850135
>>850133
>ook ook Cathie church big kahuna
Origin would be so proud of these big brained apologetics.
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cb9089 No.850142
>>850133
Even your own Catechism disagrees. Maybe you didn't get the memo?
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
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bdd9fb No.850213
>>850135
Maybe there needs to be a rule that to use a flag, you have to actually belong to that religion instead of being a deceiver damned to hell for leading souls away from God as you do. Repent and get to a real Catholic Church
>>850142
Yes, the heresy of Vatican II. The Council of Trent was clear that this is false. Catechisms, even written by "Popes" are fallible. Councils and Papal decrees on Councils are not, and they cannot be changed, ever.
Pope John Paul II was a deceiver using a imposter and his Freemason like "Consecration of the world *and all it's false religions*" to dismiss the Prophecy of Fatima and the Prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success
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0a9d8b No.850218
>>850213
Why do you hate Jesus?
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bdd9fb No.850219
>>850218
Why do you bear false witness about what I say all the time? I never said I hate Jesus. You lied and committed a mortal sin.
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0a9d8b No.850221
>>850219
Wow, that's tough talk coming from someone who hates Jesus. Hypocrisy at its finest.
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bdd9fb No.850225
>>850221
>lies.
No point in discussing this with you if all you're going to do is lie or have delusions.
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cb9089 No.850231
>>850213
>Yes, the heresy of Vatican II. The Council of Trent was clear that this is false. Catechisms, even written by "Popes" are fallible. Councils and Papal decrees on Councils are not, and they cannot be changed, ever.
>Pope John Paul II was a deceiver using a imposter and his Freemason like "Consecration of the world *and all it's false religions*" to dismiss the Prophecy of Fatima and the Prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success
I had a suspicion you were going to come back with a reply like this. Thereby placing yourself against the very Roman Catholic church that you say you defend. You're just as schismatic as the people you criticize. I voice some concerns you share about modernism, but you guys are in an awfully lonely place, where you're actually both against the Church, and refuse to share any place with others as well. Only the Old Calendarist Orthodox have you beat in isolation.
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bdd9fb No.850285
>>850231
>Thereby placing yourself against the very Roman Catholic church that you say you defend.
I defend the 2000 year old church established by Jesus.
You defend the 60 year old church established by heretics that has alter girls, dancing girls, and says that the Catholic church is nothing special and just like any other religion… including pagans.
>you guys are in an awfully lonely place,
Yes, the Remnant of the Church that is mentioned in the Bible.
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bdd9fb No.850288
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If you wouldn't do it at the foot of the cross, you shouldn't do it during Mass.
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bdd9fb No.850290
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These two are not even the same religion. No wonder the parishioners of each have vastly different values.
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bdd9fb No.850291
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
If you think that these Novus Ordo Clown masses are the Catholic Church, you're mistaken. I will not support the N.O. Mockery of the Sacrifice of the Mass.
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c925b1 No.850306
>>850291
I beg to differ on the validity of the NO mass. I say this from experience
>>be me
>>Be an anon trying to find the faith
>>Go to a Catholic Mas for the first time as an interested convert
>>I get the WORST HEADACHE in YEARS, shortly before going to mass and shortly ending after
>>I do not know how to describe it, as i was sitting in Church for the first time, other than to compare it a dead skin being peeled of of me. It felt like… SOMETHING… malignant…had latched onto me…and it was being pulled from me against its will. I have not really experienced…anything quiet like it since. I am not saying it is the best FAR from it. but I DO believe it IS valid. But If I could drive and had the time, I WOULD drive to the TLM mass. ALTHOUGH there IS a maronite mass in town, but I do not know
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bdd9fb No.850308
>>850306
Your defense of the Novus Ordo mass, with is heresy according to the infallible Council of Trent because of non-ordained people including women handling the Holy Eucharist and saying the mass in the vernacular (among other heresies), because your headache went away isn't a bad argument.
Church teaching cannot be changed, and they changed it. That's heresy.
The Holy Mass is a sacrifice, not a party.
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c925b1 No.850309
>>850308
What…exactly did they changed? If you reject the magisterium, you reject Tradition…which is heresy. your call
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c925b1 No.850312
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeBAQon2ZM0
Also WHICH brand of sedes is correct? There are several factions that are vying for legitimacy. Ergo. Sedevacantism is a false Church. you are simply a Protestant. YOU think I am happy about the state of the Church, but I am not going to go and do a Martin Luther and commit heresy
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c925b1 No.850313
>>850308
For Pope Francis to be called aheretic requires the Council of cardinals to vote to see whether or not he is a heretic. As it is, they have NOT, so under Church Teaching
anyway moral of the story is, it's possible for a Pope to be a heretic. Christ never promised that our Popes would all be holy. Some Popes in the past were evil. But that doesn't change the CHURCH TEACHING that we must be submissive to the Pope. Have faith. Christ knows exactly what's going on. Christ condemns us when we don't have faith that He is in control even if things seem dire (Matthew 8:23-26).
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bdd9fb No.850357
>>850313
>For Pope Francis to be called aheretic requires the Council of cardinals to vote to see whether or not he is a heretic.
You're confusing heresy with being declared a heretic.
If he contradicts a prior Church council, eg. Council of Trent, then he's a
heretic.
> CHURCH TEACHING that we must be submissive to the Pope.
Which Pope? The Pope who established Church teaching, or the one who tries to change it? Would you kneel before a pagan fertility goddess if the Pope told you to, knowing that better Popes were martyred to keep pagan idols out of the Vatican?
You're right, we're being tested to see if we're faithful to God and his Church or to a socialist pagan worshiper
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bdd9fb No.850358
>>850309
> If you reject the magisterium, you reject Tradition…
It's not a matter of rejecting the magisterium, it's a matter of choosing which magisterium you're going to reject as you have to reject one.
The Mass cannot be said in the venacular. That is forbidden by church teaching.
Unordained people cannot take the Holy Eucharist in the hand. That is forbidden.
Women cannot serve as alter girls, that is forbidden.
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c925b1 No.850365
>>850357
Yes, and we lay people are NOT in a position to declare him a heretic. That can only be done by the Magisterium, unless you think yourself above it. Sedevacantism shows great pride.
The best we can do is pray for Him
https://www.churchmilitant.com/main/generic/faq-sedevacantism-general-response
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bdd9fb No.850372
>>850365
>Yes, and we lay people are NOT in a position to declare him a heretic.
Of course you are! Jorge's sin is grave and it is important to speak of it. It's part of the faith that you correct the sinner least he lead other souls to hell.
God gave you free choice, follow the faith or don't.
Expecting the "Pope" to declare himself a heretic is foolish as he is clearly unrepentant. You would follow him to to hell not because you don't know him to be a false Pope (and there have been false Popes before) but because you like what he says about sin.
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638678 No.850378
>>850372
Again. Only the Magisterium can declare him a heretic.
>>Expecting the 'pope' himself to declare himself a heretic
Never said I expected him to. That is the job of the magisterium. And they have not declared him a heretic…yet….
>>You like what he says about sin
Ad Hominem attacks. You act like lap up everything he says. Not at all! I think he is a VERY flawed pope. He is no St Gregory. But I know the difference between IMPECCABILITY and INFALLIBILITY. the pope can not teach heresy EX CATHEDRA. Unofficially and in private he can says what he wants. But I also know that there could be other reasons for his action. Example: He is in mental decline possibly. MAYBE… he is not mentally well. Is it the case…likely not. But I have no way of knowing whether he is a heretic and and knowingly deceiving the faithful….OR, it is because He is…simply mentally unwell.
Or plain foolish…
You sound so much like the Protestants of old, who felt the Church to have fallen. It has not. It simply needs a doctor, and a good purging. the Church has seen FAR worse in the past and survived
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638678 No.850379
And I know it is my job to correct him. but going about it like protestants is not the way to do it. I can write Him a letter condemning him or to give advice. I can pray for him and ask God to…NOIT lead him astray. do you even pray for him anon? Or do you cast him off?
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638678 No.850380
>>850372
Canon law, and Vatican I states no one can judge the Pope. Only the Magesterium. Are you the Magesterium? Can you tell if onew is as heretic if he disagrees with you?
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bdd9fb No.850383
>>850380
>Canon law, and Vatican I states no one can judge the Pope.
You don't understand the meaning of judge. I can't pass a sentence on Jorge, but I can point out he's a heretic and will lead your soul to hell.
>>850379
>but going about it like protestants is not the way to do it.
This is the most ironic post on this board. Vatican II had protestants participate to make the mass more like a protestant service. Jorge says that other religions, including pagan ones, are just as valid as the Catholic Church. You throw out almost 2000 years of the Church because jorge says it's wrong.
>>850378
>Again. Only the Magisterium can declare him a heretic.
The Magisterium doesn't exist. it's gone apostate.
And you do like what he says about sin. That's why you argue irrationally. You can't have 2000 years of an infalible Church suddenly be wrong and start dragging in pagan idols and declaring that the Council of Trent is wrong. That's like saying the Church never existed and sprang into existence from Jorge.. That's irrational. The Church from before Vatican II MUST be correct, and all that Jorge says must be wrong.
You're right that there is no one to remove him and declare him a heretic, the SSPX said as much, but he is not a true Pope. That pagan goddess loving heretic is not the Vicar of Christ. To claim he is would be mockery of Our Lord.
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638678 No.850386
>>850383
The Magesterium does not exist. It has gone apostate
Spoken like a heretic.
>>And you do like what he says what he says about sin
More ad hominem attacks, as the sedevacantist way. I do not have to agree with everything he says.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbYAXxcLa34
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638678 No.850387
>>850383
You deny the Church as indefectible, by saying the Magestrium is apostate. You deny the Magesterium, which makes you a heretic
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c1365d No.850397
>>849524
>The flood was local, not world-wide. Or it may have just been a parable.
1. The Bible literally says it is world-wide, not just local. God says he will destroy all flesh on the earth (Gen 6:17, 7:4), Everything not in the Ark died (Gen 7:21-23), Peter says how only Noah and his family survived (1 Peter 3:20), Peter says the world was overflowed with water and perished (2 Peter 3:5-6)
2. God has all animals come to Noah so he can put them in the ark (Gen 6:20). If it was local, then there is no reason why they needed to go there. Especially considering many of the animals likely came from somewhere that would be past the so-called local flood area.
3. If it was local, God could just tell Noah to move. There is no reason to build a big boat when he had plenty of time to just leave the area.
4. "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."(Gen 7:20). The mountains were fully covered. This is only possible in a world-wide flood. If it started in only a local area, the water would run-off the side of the mountain immediately when it gets above it. To be 15 cubits (about 25 feet), it would have to cover the entire planet.
5. He sent out the birds to see if they could find plant life (Gen 8:6-11). If it was just a local flood, there is no reason Noah would even do this.
6. All of mankind was united 100 years after the flood to build the Tower of Babel. If it was only local, then theirwould-be civilizations all across the globe that would have lived through it, so they would not all be together.
7. All the rest of the Bible also teaches that it was a real story, not just a metaphor or parable.
7A. Noah is mentioned in genealogies (1 Chronicles 1:4, Luke 3:36). There is no reason that the genealogy would start including fictional characters
7B. It is referred back to, and wouldn't make sense if it wasn't real. Jesus mentions it in Matthew 24:38-39 and Luke 17:27. He also uses the example of Lot with Sodom and Gomorrah, which almost all Christians would say is a real story. He, and many other people before the flood, are mentioned in the Hebrews 11 hall of faith chapter (v. 7). Doesn't make much sense to see the faith of people that weren't actually real. The Psalmist in Psalm 104:6-9 also says how God brought a flood and then took it away, like it actually happened.
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bdd9fb No.850407
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>>850387
If you're good with pagan idols (Pachamama), communism (communist crucifix and his youth conference against the right to own property), a Pope who's popular with the Satanic Globalist then you're just not bearing good fruit.
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c1365d No.850408
>>850387
You deny the Bible, which makes you a heretic.
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bdd9fb No.850435
>>850408
Some folks deny Matthew 16:18 so they can have their own religion.
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638678 No.850453
>>850407
>> if you are good with Pachamama
more ad hominem attacks. Pride anon, remember. the pope is no Pope Gregory. But the Church is indefectible. To deny that is heresy
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638678 No.850465
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5a41e7 No.850485
>>850435
I don't
https://youtu.be/HMjwMwinVF4
also if it was such a super important thing, you think when the passage is mentioned again (I believe in both Luke and Mark, but maybe only once), it wouldn't skip the part of "Jesus ordaining Peter as the pope (even though he was married and popes can't be)", and would be mentioned in his epistles.
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bdd9fb No.850527
>>850465
The seat has been empty before and there have been wicked Popes before. Nothing wrong with holding the true faith while there is no pope or a wicked pope.
You need to pick your heresy, I guess. You can either be obedient to a communist who brought a pagan idol before the alter of God, or you can be obedient to the almost 2000 years of past popes who commanded you not do those things.
>>850453
I didn't attack you, the "you" in "if you're good with pachamama…" is a question and was meant as an argument. I could have said "A person who's good with Pachamama is not bearing good fruit." Same meaning.
Not sure if English is your first language and maybe you're unfamiliar with the usage of the "hypothetical you"
>>850485
Like I said you protestants reject the parts of the Bible you don't like. In this case you reduce God to gibbering to himself to avoid his Church. It's blasphemy but I can't get you to admit otherwise. So, I stomp the dust off my feet and I am on my way. I hope God finds you and you accept the whole Scripture given to you by the Catholic Church and stop making excuses for sin.
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bdd9fb No.850528
>>850387
>You deny the Magesterium, which makes you a heretic
If the magesterium drags a pagan idol before the Lord's alter and my saying that is a mortal sin makes me a heretic, then I confess to heresy.
I will not tolerate a filthy pagan idol brought into God's house. How you came to be good with that is cause for concern for your soul.
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638678 No.850531
>>850527
I respect the seat, not necessarily the man at the helm.
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638678 No.850532
>>850528
What makes you think I am good with it? I can only do so much. I pray that they will wake up and repent. I pray they will toughen up. I pray that they will stand up. This is reflection of the society as a whole. Bad Catholics. We need men to fight, not to schism.
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638678 No.850533
>>850528
All I see are people who flee from the Church rather than take a stand. I see people who flee to sspv and schismatics as if they were NOT Protestant. I see people who give up and admit defeat. I see people…who despair. These bad clergymen will have their day before the Lord, just like the rest of us, and they will have to answer for their actions and inactions. And I pray for their souls, because God will not hold back. I have faith that things are turning around, albeit it will be like pulling teeth kind of fashion. The new generation of priests are FAR more conservative than the past. Future Cardinals I say. We must have, anon.
also consider this
In the Old Testament in Exodus 32 Aaron the high priest (a prefiguration of the Pope) created a Canaanite idol of a gold calf and said "These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt." So he literally not only worshiped an idol but he's the one who made it and attributed God's actions to it. That seems pretty bad too. But then after in Numbers 16 Core tried to schism from Moses and Aaron (Jude 1:11 calls it the contradiction of Core. So it's relevant in the New Testament and referenced as an error the faithful should not fall into) but that angered God and as punishment for the schism God opened up the Earth and the schismatics of Core were swallowed up and fell into hell while they were still alive. Aaron didn't seem to lose his authority or position. Take that for what it is at face value…
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bdd9fb No.850544
>>850531
Sedes means the seat is empty and not that they disrespect the office. No where did I disrespect the office of Pope.
>>850532
>What makes you think I am good with it?
That would be because you call people who aren't good with worshiping pagan idols (kneeling on both knees is reserved for the Holy Eucharist and not wicked pagan idols) heretics, because Pope Francis worshiped a pagan idol, and blessed it.
Only so much you can do? You have to choose. That's what you can do. Don't call me a heretic for calling heresy what it is. Pope Francis took his pagan goddess into a sanctified house of God, and defiled it. When good Catholics took his filthy idols out and threw them in the river, Pope Frances called it theft.
>>850533
>All I see are people who flee from the Church rather than take a stand
My parish has grown greatly in size in the last year.
You call us heretics because our mass, beliefs and religion is the same as it was in 1962. Have the first 1930 years of the Church been heretics until Pope Francis came along?
You can't be communist and Catholic. You can't be a freemason and be catholic. You can't support gay marriage and be Catholic. You can't deny the divinity of Jesus who was true God and true man on earth and be Catholic.
Putting a man, even a Pope, above the teachings of the Catholic Church and even God is wicked and wrong.
God told us that if your eye leads you to hell, pluck it out.
>>850533
>created a Canaanite idol of a gold calf
And Almighty God slew half of them and denied the rest the promised land. God was NOT okay with this and God is not okay with dragging that filthy pagan idol, which they sacrificed children to in the past, before the Alter of God. What do you think will happen to Catholics who won't speak out against the desecration of the Vatican and support those who kneel before a pagan idol?!
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638678 No.850551
>>850544
I am not good with people breaking off from the Church. Who is your pope? Who is your leaders.
>>You call us heretics because our mass is before 1962
1. I am calling you a heretic because you are schismed from the Church and are Protestants. ICKSO follow the pre 1952 missal and are in full communion with Rome
>>Have the first 1930 years of the Church heretics
Not at all, and I am in favor of removing new rite mass. They are heretics when they schism and form their own 'church'
You are not apostolic because you schismed. As
I said earlier, ICKSP do what you say, but unlike sspv they are in FULL communion with Rome
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638678 No.850552
Also there is a saint that actually followed a an antipope, Saint Vincent Ferrer. He actually disagreed with Catherine of Siena on the true pope. So even if he is a heretic, it is not automatic means of excommunication
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36e033 No.850569
>>850397
Thank you for keeping focus and not getting into the Catholicism debate going on in the thread. For someone like me, doing independent bible study, you are a blessing.
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bdd9fb No.850572
>>850551
You're doing exactly what Pope Pius IX warned us about, falling for the Freemason infiltration because they told you obedience was more important than the sin of paganism or violating any other Church teaching.
>everyone but me is a heretic!
Yeah. You have that.
At least I have Our Lady of Akita and Our Lady of Good Success and Our Lady of Fatima and 1930 years of Church teaching and Pope Saint Pius X and many other great Popes. You have a pagan worshiping "Pope". You should know better!
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bdd9fb No.850573
>>850569
Nobody reads those incohearant walls of text where protestants throw out scripture that has nothing to do with anything and then twist them into something they don't say.
Protestants are lost. Pray for their souls that the might be saved, but you can't really reason with them because they can't be honest with their real motives.
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5179bf No.853350
>>849524
I own a nice and descriptive book called Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study, which details the precise and intricate manners in which two of every *kind* of animal could have easily inhabited the ark. It also includes schematics on how God instructed Noah to build the ark, and hypotheses regarding how Noah and his family ate food and disposed of waste during their year onboard.
If you're unsure of the geology of the flood, I would recommend checking out the Institute for Creation Research at https://www.icr.org/
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a4d83c No.853362
>>849524
Everything is possible through God, anon. To say what he willed was a falsehood is really a form of blasphemy.
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c09d05 No.853366
>>849524
One God is God an omnipotent all powerful being who can probably change and warp the inside of the ark to appear bigger than the outside or something.
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dd919f No.856657
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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d294e1 No.856658
Here is some information on the subject.
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