f933b7 No.844509
Calvinism makes the mistake of thinking that the lower the view of man, the higher the view of God. It believes through the intense misanthropy of treating man with utter contempt and loading him up with all manner of sin and evil, while denying him even the slightest free choosing of righteousness; faith and repentance, that God's glory will be thus magnified. But rather all it ends up doing is depriving man of real responsibility by not letting him choose to do good instead of evil. Thus he becomes a channel for sin, which is logically necessarily imputed to God, to be funnelled through; he effectively becomes a scapegoat for the Calvinist god (as if God should need any such thing). The bad fruit of Calvinist doctrine comes down to one matter: it does not treat man with the same compassion and mercy God has actually shown towards him. By way of utterly despising man, Calvinism harms the good name of God in the process. Therefore Calvinism is just like the unforgiving servant of the parable, selfishly taking grace, with ingratitude and yet giving none of its own.
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4ab6b2 No.844518
>>844509
sounds like a based denomination, I think maybe God chooses his people by planting "evil" in them, that's how the world gets to hate them
>t. charged with crime
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844522
>>844518
Yeah! Winnie the Pooh humanity! Wubalubadubdub!
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844525
>>844522
Well I know for a fact I was chosen by God, and there are many "good" people who are total Gentiles.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844526
>>844525
You don't know that until you have persevered till the end. Ordo Salutis was a mistake.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844529
>>844526
then don't come and tell me you are saved, cuck
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844530
>>844529
I am BEING saved and I am saved from CERTAIN destruction. That is all.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844531
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844532
>>844531
The gospel is foolishness to those who dwell in darkness.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844534
>>844532
I didn't say anything about the gospel, moron
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844535
>>844534
You called the gospel moronic.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844536
>>844535
no I didn't, learn to read and take your pills
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844540
>>844536
>I speak the truth of the gospel (that the one who perseveres to the end is saved)
>You call me a moron
This is calling the gospel moronic. I know you Calvinists are not good at following through with logical implications though.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844545
>>844540
>I am chosen
>you don't know that until at the end
>but I am saved
>but you don't know if you're saved until the end
fûcking imbecile
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
30f0ed No.844548
>>844509
You can't defeat evil. That's the whole point. Even Job got pissed at God when he lost everything. Most humans are inherently evil. And the good ones are only good because they're under the direct guidance of God. Tolkien was a great example of a real Catholic. He showed no one could resist evil's temptation, not even Frodo. But Eru (God) was at the top of it all making sure good comes out of evil anyway when Smeagle's attempt to steal the ring makes him and the ring fall in the lava. And ironically despite being one of the greatest evils of Middle Earth, Sauron was actually more virtuous than most Christians because they claim they want complete order but Sauron actually followed through with that wish until he was defeated.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844565
>>844545
Tell that to God , if you think so. I can already tell you aren't even called, let alone chosen. The fruits of the Spirit are not cursing your brother, or even the lost.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844567
>>844548
Who said I think I can defeat evil? I can just not choose it. Ultimately in temptation, I must call upon and invoke the power of God. Also stop exegeting Lord of the Rings, it's totally irrelevant.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844572
>>844565
> I can already tell you
you can't tell s—
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844575
>>844572
You have been dropping bad fruit since you got here. Bad fruit is no great secret. The Bible says we will know men by their fruit.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
43081a No.844578
>>844575
it also says who is sinless throw the first stone, and why do you see the speck in your brother's eye but not the log in your own
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7db869 No.844580
>>844578
>it also says who is sinless throw the first stone
You are applying that incorrectly by taking it out of context
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844581
>>844578
I'm not the one who believes in Ordo Salutis here. You think you're already cleaned up for the kingdom, regardless of your hostility and rudeness. This is a common theme with reformed types.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7db869 No.844582
>>844581
Do you not have an order of salvation? That's new to me
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844583
>>844582
Not the protestant one. Regeneration does not precede faith.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7db869 No.844584
>>844583
I agree, faith then regeneration. You still have an order then i guess
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
11e517 No.844585
>>844509
Calvinism is a misunderstanding, but /christian/ isn't for blogging your personal grievances. I hope you can see for yourself the tone of the discussion you spawned; it's not ecumenism to keep your own council.
>>844518
Sorry to hear that you were charged with a crime, I'll pray for you to be vindicated if innocent and if not that you grow in repentance.
>>844525
Goodness is irrelevant to God, what humans consider good is evil, and friendship with the world is enmity with God. Someone who is just "nice" by the standards of the world is worse off than a criminal; a criminal can repent, a person who thinks of themselves as "nice" will die in their sins.
>>844548
You had me right up until saying Sauron was in any way good. True he had superhuman abilities (like the devil does) but pride is corrosive to one's natural powers, no matter how superhuman, hence why the devil is weak and foolish.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844586
>>844585
I do not respect Calvinism, to me it is a heresy. Also I had this insight that the character of Calvinism and Calvinists is alike to the unforgiving servant because all it does is beat the heck out of man, while depriving him of even his own faith and the things he does in that faith. I believe this revelation was even put on my heart by The Spirit.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
30f0ed No.844587
>>844585
>You had me right up until saying Sauron was in any way good.
Good. I actually don't think Sauron is good. I think the concept of complete order and control like communism is satanic. I probably shouldn't be saying that on imageboards which tend to lean authoritarian but oh well I don't care anymore.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
30f0ed No.844588
>>844585
>a person who thinks of themselves as "nice" will die in their sins.
This. If you're born a child in the West you're damned from then onward unless you fix some things because children's media and schools are subverted to hell with evil values. Bible books I hated as a kid like Genesis and John are now two of my favorite Bible books.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
11e517 No.844593
>>844586
I tend to sympathize with your viewpoint; personally I realized that determinism/predestination made me angry. When I questioned myself on this, I noted that Calvinism gives us a series of moral temptations that are not any good. Perhaps we don't really have any agency and everything we do is determined, but the thought is ugly, it leads to hatred of God and despair. Of course, unlike philosophers we Christians believe that the truth can be deployed strategically to drive us away from God and the ultimate good by the devils and by men. So my thoughts have become compatibilist; we have some free will, but mercifully we are mostly not to blame. Life is a lot of luck,and I live by the grace of God. I am no more worthy than this about to be convicted person >>844518
>>844587
I get what you mean.
>>844588
Me too, Genesis is the best book in my mind because it encapsulates faith so well. (Gen 6:5) at the beginning of the book and (Gen 50:20) at the end. Those verses give me a great deal of peace. Especially to stop worrying about my own righteousness, which I think might actually be a sin; God of course has made us to be a help to others, not to try and justify ourselves.
I was living a very pernicious life before, because while I knew this, I didn't understand.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844599
>>844593
It has nothing to do with whether it makes me angry or not. Calvinism basically calls evil as legitimate as Good with God being the ultimate origin of both. This is basically like a Manichean dualist perspective, just with monotheism. Orthodox theology holds that evil is merely a probation of God's essential goodness that arises from the free actions of beings that lack the understanding which God has.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844600
>>844599
Privation of God's essential goodness*
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
72fd3f No.844603
You have to toss out the Epistle of James to either be a Lutheran or Calvinist. Most never do and then just become disingenuous about their love of scripture.
"When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me.' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone." - James 1:13
"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." - James 2:24
=====
"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." - Deuteronomy 30:19
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
11e517 No.844628
>>844599
This is why I said compatibilist; your doctrine is sound, but people will argue that God is all-knowing, and if God is all knowing then God permits evil. Or to use Aristotelian terms, God is the formal cause of evil. He does not cause it directly, but He has allowed it.
I don't think I've ever heard a Calvinist call God the ultimate origin of evil, as if he meant that evil is a part of God's nature. Evil is the result of a lack of knowledge and wisdom; you said so yourself and this was so from the beginning. The devil tempted Eve by saying that if she ate of the tree of knowledge then she would become like God, however, Eve didn't realize that she was God's image already.
>>844603
I'll admit that James had me turned around with his difficult prose for a long time. At any rate, if one loves a person, you do everything for them. So if one loves God, you must similarly have works.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f933b7 No.844631
>>844628
>I don't think I've ever heard a Calvinist call God the ultimate origin of evil
Yes because they are a cult and they do not comprehend logical necessities.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
557ce4 No.844678
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
2590f2 No.844718
>>844509
This is a good take. I am a convert from the Reformed/Calvinist tradition, and I noticed that for all of our hemming and hawing about grace we were the least gracious people around.
Calvinists are only nice to other Calvinists, and then only if they affirm all the same minutia of doctrines. I have been called a damned heretic by Calvinists more than anyone else for believing and spreading Calvinist teachings.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
2590f2 No.844719
>>844583
Well depending on the context, it can. My children are Baptized, but both still infants.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
85fcc7 No.844729
>>844719
Imagine taking away their choice to become followers of Christ, and removing the tradition of believing first.
You have sewed confusion in their heart as they grow older, doubts about their baptism and then on the other side doubts of getting baptised.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4fbb28 No.844754
>>844729
I would Baptize my children in infancy. I was Baptized, my brother was not, guess who is a believer 26 years later? Me. You deny the power of Baptism when you make it out to be a personal choice.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4fbb28 No.844755
>>844729
Also let me tell you, a child who is Baptized is always thankful that his parents took the trouble to care for his soul. I've never had a person say that their parents choice to Baptize them in their infancy was "confusing" or wrong. It really is a vaccine against all the wiles of the devil. Calling it a vaccine is a joke, but you get the idea; if you love a child enough to protect them from measles, you should also love them enough to protect them from the devil. Baptism will be taken by the child in the Spirit in which it is given, hence the power of this sacrament.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8601e2 No.844763
>>844755
Do not be fooled. A parent baptizing an infant only results in wet infant. Nothing more nothing less
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
d37d16 No.844769
>>844763
Are you a troll? I was literally taught in CCD anyone could baptize a baby. It's just better if a priest does it because of the exorcisms and other frills involved.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4fbb28 No.844802
>>844763
>A parent Baptizing an infant
No of course I mean a priest Baptizing an infant at the behest of the infants parents. That's just overly pedantic of you.
Also you're not listening; you're just filtering the world through your atheist preconceived notions. You are, of course, wrong, but setting that aside, I mean to say that any child will appreciate the gesture, even if they don't become Christian. I've never heard of a person who resents being Baptized except for very bitter atheists and Calvinists who hate their parents.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7db869 No.844810
>>844763
This, because babies can not repent
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
35d39e No.845039
>>844509
> treating *man with utter contemp
*Treating other men. one's self and their interpretation of scripture notwithstanding.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
40e7d1 No.845114
An embarrassingly awful post followed by an embarrassingly awful thread
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.