973c10 No.844217
In light of passages like Hebrews 6:4-8, is eternal security Biblical? It seems like the passages people put forward in favor of it, are simply tautologies. That is to say, they are there to give encouragement to whoever might be grafted into the corporate body of the Church at the end; they are not meant to evidence anything apologetically. Besides there are far more passages unambiguously warning of the dangers of willful sin, blasphemy and apostasy.
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c1bad0 No.844219
Those who apostasize were never saved in the first place, they were tares among the wheat. This is only a superficial challenge to eternal security or once saved always saved (which are a little different)
Matthew 7:23
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
Being a partaker of the spirit just doesn't mean born again.
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3b6b9f No.844220
>>844217
Eternal security is the only thing that makes sense to me. If we're still in constant danger of Hell even after accepting Jesus Christ, it feels like the cross ultimately made no difference at all. Every Christian, no matter how good they are, still continues to knowingly sin over and over and over and over after accepting Jesus. If salvation can be lost then we are almost certainly all damned and will be tormented in some great abyss forever.
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973c10 No.844221
>>844219
Please, no smoothbrain Calvinism. God isn't going to bless someone and make that person a dwelling place for his Spirit only to to pull the carpet out from under them, making them grieve Him away just to accord them greater condemnation. He is also not going to bring about the insulting of his own Spirit of Grace. Those are the necessary abominable conclusions of Calvinist nonsense, but even Calvinists won't speak them and hypocritically appeal to mystery while making this believer into a scapegoat. Unlike Calvinists, I believe my Lord when he says he does not delight in the perishing of the wicked. I also have no idea how Calvinists get sleep if they think God does this. Well except for how solipsistic, intellectually dishonest and hypocritical they are.
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c1bad0 No.844222
>>844221
I'm not a calvinist
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973c10 No.844223
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>844220
So you don't think you should go to hell for doing a satanic blood ritual with a real child sacrifice? Obviously there is sin that "does not lead to death". The sin that leads to death is an aggravated and wilful rebellion to God. Really God would be just in cutting us off for smaller things too, but his mercy is great! I am living proof of that and many testimonies attest to such tremendous mercy that we can find rest and peace in.
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3b6b9f No.844224
>>844223
I am pretty sure an actual Christian would rather kill themselves than do a Satanic child sacrifice. Performing Satanic sacrificial rituals would fall under total apostasy and would be a very strong indicator that the person was never actually saved to begin with as >>844219 said.
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973c10 No.844225
>>844222
Sorry, I'm just getting tunnel vision from debating them. But I think I "never knew you" is to speak to the nature of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Since it's called an "eternal sin" it carries on in both directions in time. I don't think such people were denied saving faith, they just revoked it in much the same way Esau revoked his birthright.
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c1bad0 No.844226
>>844225
What you're explaining in this post is not compatible with the passage. There are people who performed miracles who were actually never known by Jesus, that is not born again.
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973c10 No.844227
>>844226
No it's especially compatible. Jesus never knew someone who he previously dealt with personally? The only way to make sense of it is to consider the description of the UNPARDONABLE, described by Jesus himself. Once a prior believer does this, he shifts over into yet another new being which Jesus never knew.
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409639 No.844228
Jesus forgives me for everything?
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973c10 No.844229
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c1bad0 No.844230
>>844227
I'm not arguing that Jesus "never knew" personal acquaintances in his new testament ministry. He's talking in future tense about the judgment, right after giving a parable.
There are many people who on that day will say "Lord we did x, y, z" and he will say "I never knew you". You can't shift from being known to being never known.
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973c10 No.844231
>>844230
Why not? If a loved one took the mark of the beast and turned into a demonic zombie sort of creature, would you not say you never knew that being they turned into?
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c1bad0 No.844232
>>844231
You're not practicing good hermeneutics, you're taking the phrase in one passage and proposing a hypothetical about a different scenario and with a different meaning.
Jesus is talking about a persons salvation. It is in reference to the day of judgment. There is no textual reason to think never doesnt mean never, like hyperbole or something.
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973c10 No.844233
>>844232
C.S. Lewis never did hermeneutics and he's one of the most effective apologists ever.
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c1bad0 No.844234
>>844233
Cs Lewis did hermeneutics and that's why he was a great apologist
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19b0ed No.844256
>>844220
Christ didn't sacrifice himself so we needn't, but so we can.
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