/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>843776

You have to interpret scripture with scripture. Sometimes just taking a verse in isolation needs context from other gospels. Especially this case where Matthew goes into detail at Mt 12:22-32:

>Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

>

>But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

>

>Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

>“Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

>

When he eases judgement about himself, he's talking about perceptions of the human side of himself - Son of Man. But the Holy Spirit is reference to the power behind his miracles and actions. If someone condemns even that, and starts calling good things "evil", then there's no hope for them. Someone who actually thinks exorcisms are "evil" or bad somehow would be incredibly malicious (on top of not making sense), like in this case.

https://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html

>>843783

I guess my problem is I don't know when to just listen to what Jesus said, or when to listen to what Jesus said and then interpret what I think he said instead.

I completely understand having to interpret/cross reference/infer what men said in the bible. That makes sense.

But when it comes to Jesus, the man Christianity is named after. I read what he says sentence by sentence (using what I think is the best translation to his raw words), and then leave it at that.

If it doesn't make sense at face value, I will pray. It shouldn't take more work than this. He doesn't usually say things and then add "also remember what I said this time" or "and this will make sense if you also take into account"

>>843784

Are you a link machine? I'm here to talk to people. thanks though.

>>843785

>I guess my problem is I don't know when to just listen to what Jesus said, or when to listen to what Jesus said and then interpret what I think he said instead.

>I completely understand having to interpret/cross reference/infer what men said in the bible. That makes sense.

>But when it comes to Jesus, the man Christianity is named after. I read what he says sentence by sentence (using what I think is the best translation to his raw words), and then leave it at that.

>If it doesn't make sense at face value, I will pray. It shouldn't take more work than this. He doesn't usually say things and then add "also remember what I said this time" or "and this will make sense if you also take into account"

You have to read all of the Gospels to understand Jesus. They all emphasize different elements and different audiences. Instead of just taking one in isolation, count your blessings that you even have 4 gospels! Rejoice in that. You're not Luke's original audience, so stop thinking you have to take it in isolation. He specifically addressed it to a "Theophilus" in the beginning and none of us is Theophilus.

>>843787

I have read all of the gospels. I have already re-read all of Jesus's words separately.

I have found that 99% of everything Jesus says makes sense when you read it.

>>843789

>I have already

also already*

many times I might add, but thats ok.

>>843776

The job of the Holy Spirit is to draw you to Christ and reveal God's thoughts and truth. Jesus gave believers the Holy Spirit to lead them into all truth. When you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you insult, show contempt, reject God's truth. It's a conscious rejection of God's truth.

>>843785

>I guess my problem is I don't know when to just listen to what Jesus said, or when to listen to what Jesus said and then interpret what I think he said instead.

I don't understand what you mean by interpreting. If it is that further study of the gospels and time will make your impressions of each part take a new tone, then this is just how the mind works as it matures.

Being in good will is all that is demanded, for blaspheming the Spirit is being disingenuous too. I believe you are well-intentioned as you mentioned prayer and patience.

>>843789

>I have found that 99% of everything Jesus says makes sense when you read it.

Most things, sure, but like I said, context matters. It's a good rule of thumb to look at references when we run into difficulties. One gospel sometimes will use Jesus' sayings in a more streamlined matter, and it can be important to look at reference points to similar sayings elsewhere - like in this case about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Matthew puts a whole two or three paragraphs to contextualize it. You don't need to rely on yourself. You or I are not anybody in comparison to an Apostle. Matthew is an eyewitness to Jesus. He will teach us better than the idea of going on your own and just winging it.

Some sayings of Jesus can also be misleading if not studied in the whole Jewish context. The best kind of commentaries in my opinion are "Bible Backgrounds" (what daily life and times was like in the biblical world) and grammars. For example, Jesus' saying on the Sermon on the Mount is a good case in point in the flaw of trying to isolate sayings:

"The light of the body is the eye: if

therefore thine eye be single, thy

whole body shall be full of light." - Matthew 6:22

If taken in isolation, it sounds like something mystical. There's probably a silly boomer hippy or Gnostic out there who glanced at this and thought Jesus was speaking like them with the same mystical blabbering that they do. But it's just an idiom. An "eye full of light" is just another way of saying someone is generous. And to have an evil eye is to be greedy.

"He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him." - Proverbs 22:8

This is also why the surrounding verses about the "eye full of light" are about greed too. It's not like Jesus broke in mid-paragraph and just tossed out some mystical gibberish. He's talking about greed extensively.

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:19-24

>>843776

Mark 3:28-30 puts that further in context. Shortly before that in verse 22 there were people who attributed the works of the Holy Spirit to that of Satan/demons.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Everyone's silent about what it is but that only makes people more likely to commit the sin. The Holy Spirit literally means the spirit of separation. God says to separate not only groups of people but even fabrics meaning He wants us to think in terms of differences. Marxism is the complete and utter blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in that it asserts differences do not exist between different groups of people. Discrete logic is the way of God not abstraction. That isn't to say recognizing similarities is bad but to deny differences when they exist is a sin.

>>843776

The blasphemy is the refusal to repent. Among others this includes despair.

>>843785

and to add to >>843783

St Jerome said, that the thing about THIS particular sin, is that the people who commit it, are so obstinate, stubborn and pigheaded, that they are rarely if EVER…saved.

>>843800

>Among others this includes despair.

Lol, well I guess I am totally screwed. Most of my day is spent in despair.

>>843802

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=zhSKhTSroe0

>>843803

not here to click links. here to talk to people. why does everyone just post a damn link.

>>843806

it will help A LOT with explaining it, better than I can.

>>843806

Because most of these people don't have ideas, just appeals to authority. They heard it from somewhere else and assume it's correct. I already told you the literal translation of the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Separation. Your heart already understands what follows from this information, especially if you've read the rest of the Bible.

>>843802

Despair is giving up on salvation and allowing yourself to go to hell, not being a doomer. You're fine.