/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

That's retarded. Why do you need drugs to connect with God?

>>842842

Getting high is in the same category as getting drunk, which is a sin.

>>842852

Got a Bible source to back that up?

>>842842

Unless Jesus had a toadstool for a head, you should rethink your errors.

"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture."

>>842842

No, the way to God is through your own imagination. Drugs of any kind hinder it. We'd probably have more quality fiction and less fan-fiction if children stopped killing their brain cells with drugs.

After meditating on it, people converting to Christianity after doing satanic things the Bible condemns like drugs is really making me start to question the Christness of Christianity. Has the religion really been that demolished that it attracts degenerates? I remember the Bible saying bad people were repelled by Christianity and books about time before the twentieth century say the same thing. Something has gone horribly wrong. It seems God has not only given up on humanity in general but the Church too. Come to think of it, recorded Marian apparitions warned of exactly this. It's quite odd. I expected the endtimes to be more explosive not a gradual genetic and moral orcification of everywhere. It's just like the days of Noah.

>>842934

Some people try one thing and are immediately repulsed and attracted to God.

On the other hand, there are people who have drug trips and likely don't encounter God, but a demon. Satan can come as an angel of the light and because of that, people can be confused and go down a dark path. OP reminds me of Lonnie Frisbee who I'm not necessarily convinced was saved.

>>842936

It's the other hand I'm worried about. It seems odd to me these demons (which the Bible says they are) are leading people to Christianity. I wouldn't think they'd do so unless hell has confidently co-opted the religion. A demon genuinely leading someone to heaven doesn't make any sense so there has to be something else going on. I think Satan might have adopted the white robe. Calling bad things good didn't work so now he's going to turn good things bad.

>>842937

I believe one of the tactics of demons is to not lie each and every time. They'll give you 99 truths to earn your trust just so that in the end, they can feed you that single, devastating lie.

>>842938

>that single, devastating lie

I'm curious about what that lie could be. I suppose Jesus not being God or the idea that you can't repent might do it. But even if Satan appeared to me as Jesus and pulled a perfect act up until that point I would never believe him. What other sneakier lies could a demon say to certainly damn you?

much of the new testament has a disdain for shrooms and other psychedelics, specifically under the name pharmakeia, the closest English phrase would be 'ethenogen'

The warning is that the ecstacies and experiences of these substances, while on the surface profound, take away a fundamental aspect of our communion with God, our ability to reason moderate our thoughts and impulses. Many sins can be held back by our communion with God and by extension, His loving Grace, but these substances disturb it; you relinquish some of your control over mind and body for a mystical experience rather than seeking a mystical experience while sober and aware.

The profound mystical revelations of these substances can be replicated through a life of prayer and study and walking the walk of God and his commands. Be careful chasing sensual means of feeling the presence of God.

>>842939

They really like praising people for their humility. "Because you obeyed the Father, your name will be known by all men" and similar things.

>>842952

How will that damn someone? Encouraging someone to obey the Father doesn't sound like something a demon would do.

>>842956

>Encouraging someone to obey the Father

Except they're not so much encouraging obedience as they are attempting to rile up a sense of pride and prelest. Humility is the one virtue which demons cannot imitate, and likewise pride is the greatest pitfall for Christians who are able to stay on the straight and narrow path. Many saints were visited by demons and tempted to pride, and they were warded off by acts of humility.

One monk for example was visited by a demon disguised as the angel Gabriel and said that he had been sent to him by God to reward him for his piety, but the monk retorted him by stating simply that the angel must be mistaken for he was unworthy of such a visitation.

>>842962

I mostly agree with you but that monk story is raising a lot of red flags. He wasn't a Saint was he, and if so which one? Because either he's not a Saint or you're leaving out some important details.

>>842963

He probably wasn't a saint. I have The Manual of Spiritual Warfare and it has a section on how saints overcame temptations and one of the categories is "The Desert Fathers (early centuries)." Footnote says it's adapted from "The Sayings of the Fathers." The story's preceded by stories of St. Theonas and St. Macarius but the stories after it are about certain unnamed monks, perhaps more anecdotal than factual. The story I quoted was one of them.

<The Devil once appeared to a monk disguised as an angel of light to deceive him by tempting him to pride.

<He announced: "I am the angel Gabriel, and I have been sent to you!"

<But the monk was not deceived. He replied simply: "Better check and see: you must have been mistaken. I'm not worthy that an angel should be sent to me."

<And so the Devil vanished - vanquished by the monk's humility.

>>842842

>Psychedelic mushrooms are a gift from God. They grow from the earth to heal and are a gateway for humans to connect with god. Compare this to lab created pharmaceutical drugs that enslave man.

Both are bad for you. God gave you everything you need to come to him. Your entire post is an excuse to indulge in escapism.

>>842952

You are a kike.

I have a weird relationships with psychedelics. They made me realize that there is a God and a transcendental layer to reality, which after some years ultimately led me to Christianity. I felt so relieved after years of pure dread, edgy nihilistic atheism, fear of death and ‘the void’.

But on the other hand Christianity seems to be so ‘anti drugs’, which I do understand, since most drugs led me far away from God and the truth. But how can a drug lead me on my path to God AND be bad/wrong at the same time? Without psychedelics I probably wouldn’t have been led on my several year long journey to God and Christ. So how can psychedelics be ‘bad’ in general? I don’t know if I could recommend psychedelics to anyone else, but for me it was the single most influential experience of my life and I thank Christ every day for leading me to him, even if it was by unconventional means by some standards. Getting a „glimpse of infinity“ really changes you, in my case for the better.

I‘m glad, amazed and happy that so many people can find and believe in Christ without having some kind of “transcendental experience“, and I’m even kind of jealous. But I probably needed something like that a few years ago to find Him or otherwise I probably would have doomed myself.

Praise be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

>>842994

Like I've been saying in this thread, there's a good chance you're not actually a real Christian like our fathers of old were. Whatever demons the drugs may have opened you up to quite possibly could have given you over to a false Christianity. Look at the old Catholics talking about Logos and complex theology in a fully rational manner, meanwhile most Christians I know with a history of drug use struggle to think rationally and just treat Christianity as if it were hippyism the religion. If you can't logically explain why you believe in God you're not a Christian, you're just a larper. I'm not saying you're damned for certain but it's possible the drugs made your ability to think logically slower and therefore development of true faith would take longer, which is indeed something demons want.

>>842995

How would I even know that I'm not a "real Christian"? What does that even mean? Currently going through RCIA, how would I even know that I'm being deceived?

>>842994

One thing that I learned from the Book of Jonah is God's plan will always occur despite the choices you make. Now I'm not advocating for psychedelics, because they're obviously physically/mentally harmful, but if your faith in Christ is authentic after your experience, I'd say the way you managed to get there was still God's plan despite the strangeness of method. In the same way, Christ's birth came out of King David and Bathsheba, but that didn't make their affair any less sinful. Genesis 50:20 also says, "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good.."

>>842994

Psychedelics make you lose your faculties of reason. I know this for a fact cause I've done them and I felt like I could communicate with fish cause I was looking into my friends fish tank. That's definitely a loss off reason

It's the same exact principle with alcoholism. St. Thomas Aquinas says this about excessive drinking: "With regard to drunkenness we reply that it is a mortal sin by reason of its genus: for that a man, without necessity, and through the mere lust of wine, makes himself unable to use his reason, whereby he is directed to God and avoids committing many sins, is expressly contrary to virtue."

As you see where the sin is in using substances that alter your mind is the loss of the faculties of reason.

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2291 >"The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life."

Magic Mushrooms do not have dosage written on them like on medicines people DO overdose on them and on top of mental and emotional effects they DO have physical effects (I experienced a few) they can cause convulsions, make your limbs feel heavy, make you tired, make you react slower, hard to balance, blurry vision, nausea, mild to severe paralysis. If someone were to drive on them they would be huge danger to themselves and others

>"Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense."

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're probably not a doctoror have any condition where you would be prescribed psilocybin and on the rare instances it is prescribed it's very small doses not enough to trip.

>"Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."

Unless you're growing them yourself which I highly doubt you're literally helping to support drug dealers and by supporting them you're contributing the sins of other people which makes it even worse.

>how can a drug lead me on my path to God AND be bad/wrong at the same time?

Cause as I've proved it's a sin. Satan doesn't care if you believe in God if he can get you to sin and I surely do hope you have stopped but if not then you're still in sin and even then your defense of drug use really does seem like you have no remorse or contrition for the sin. Believing in God but being in sin will send someone to hell just as equally as not believing

>Without psychedelics I probably wouldn’t have been led on my several year long journey to God and Christ.

With psychs you're in sin sooo… yeah…

>So how can psychedelics be ‘bad’ in general?

Because drug use is mortally sinful as I've proved. Even Pope Francis in 2014 at the International Drug Enforcement Conference in Rome said legalization of drugs for recreational use is wrong.

>>843025

>Currently going through RCIA

Oh boy, you should really confess these sins and repent of them and amend your life before you take your first communion and get confirmed…

>>842842

So do you know where your consciousness or soul came from?

>ingestion of substances caused the Fall

>ingestion of substances will help us know God

real Gnostic Pelagian hours who up

>>842855

The new testament condemns Pharmakeia, which includes both magical practices and drugs which ensorcell the mind.

>>842932

Does not lucifer appear as an angel of light? Do you defile the prophets and God by claiming they saw only what was produced by little specks of decay?

>>842934

Christ attracted not only the Righteous but also the Sinners. Do not forget Mary Magdalene, who was a prostitute and forsook her sinfulness. If a man comes away from drugs and to Jesus, that is a cause for rejoicing, not tutting about how profane they are. However, if a man comes and rejects not his vices, that is a cause for concern, sorrow, and judgement.

>>842939

More common in recent days is the deception that "All is God" and therefore, "All things are Good". It has ensnared many people, as I believe OP is on the edge of being.

>>842951

This guy gets it.

>>842994

Seconding this >>843031

>>843150

what is The Eucharist?

>>843193

>Christ attracted not only the Righteous but also the Sinners. Do not forget Mary Magdalene, who was a prostitute and forsook her sinfulness. If a man comes away from drugs and to Jesus, that is a cause for rejoicing, not tutting about how profane they are. However, if a man comes and rejects not his vices, that is a cause for concern, sorrow, and judgement.

I agree but the problem is most people don't repent. I know tons of Christians who smoke weed and it's just not right. Jesus told people to repent and turn away from their sins not embrace them without resisting but still claim you're Christian.

>>843193

>More common in recent days is the deception that "All is God" and therefore, "All things are Good". It has ensnared many people, as I believe OP is on the edge of being.

Interesting you bring that up. My own meditation has led me to believe God is the most powerful being in existence but not nearly as powerful as people make Him out to be. Many people say He arbitrarily controls everything without any restrictions and therefore He's responsible for all bad things that happen. But that's not exactly true. The answer isn't bad things happen because God grants free will because that doesn't explain natural evil where humans aren't involved and God permitting the possibility of evil would make responsible for it from a standpoint of negligence. No, the real answer is God isn't as powerful as many people make Him out to be. He staunchly refuses to contradict Himself which is already a restraint and even though He decides the path the fate of creation takes crapchutes do exist. Sometimes every option has a negative to it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So the best God can do is minimize evil.

>>843200

Yeah I mean, satan and demons exist, and their manipulations of men as well as their own powers can cause terrible disasters, which God does not always prevent, because he rather likes the laws of physics.

(hope your meditation wasn't under the influence brother)

>>843238

I already said I'm against drugs. My meditation is just sitting and thinking, just like the Saints did.

>>842842

>They grow from the earth to heal

Just because something comes from nature doesn't mean it's okay to use it. Also, what exactly do they heal?

>and are a gateway for humans to connect with god.

No, they're a gateway to opening yourself up to demons. There's only one way to God (John 14:6).

>>842855

Think about *why* being drunk is sinful. It's not about the alcohol, otherwise drinking any amount would be sinful. It's about being intoxicated. That's why using shrooms are sinful.