/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>842040

Wtf is this version of the bible?

Why have I never heard of it?

>>842042

That's why I want to bring it to your attention. When I bring it up, nobody ever seems to know about it, kind of makes me love it more tbh.

Just look how much more readable The Voice is compared to the KJV

"O Eternal One, You have explored my heart and know exactly who I am;

You even know the small details like when I take a seat and when I stand up again.

Even when I am far away, You know what I’m thinking.

You observe my wanderings and my sleeping, my waking and my dreaming,

and You know everything I do in more detail than even I know.

You know what I’m going to say long before I say it.

It is true, Eternal One, that You know everything and everyone.

You have surrounded me on every side, behind me and before me,

and You have placed Your hand gently on my shoulder.

It is the most amazing feeling to know how deeply You know me, inside and out;

the realization of it is so great that I cannot comprehend it." - Psalm 139:1-6 (The Voice)

"O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me.

Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether.

Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it." - Psalm 139:1-6 (KJV)

>>842040

It's not a "version", but a paraphrase.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but don't rely on paraphrases entirely. Go back to a translation when you're ready.

>>842105

>don't rely on paraphrases entirely

But why though? As long as I get all the information and the information is accurate, isn't that enough?

I made sure that whatever bible I chose was accurate to the original Greek text which is why I used Revelation 20:10 along with other often mistranslated verses for comparison.

Tbh, I tried reading a chapter of KJV then the same chapter from The Voice but it just felt more efficient to stick to The Voice since I hardly remember what I read from the KJV. Other modern translations like the NIV remove verses, this one doesn't. If you want a true word for word, learn Greek.

>>842107

>But why though? As long as I get all the information and the information is accurate, isn't that enough?

It matters because precision matters in general. This goes beyond the bible and applies to all fields. If you were a translator at the UN, you could possibly ruin diplomacy between entire nations or get people killed if you were carefree with translation. You make this "all or nothing" excuse that we should just read paraphrases or read the original Greek, but nothing needs to be so extreme. No one needs to do that in any serious translation, where everything is a struggle between one extreme or the other. Not everyone at the UN is required to learn the hundreds of languages of everyone else either. They just need word for word translation.

"Idea for idea" translation can be useful when it comes to idioms - for example, translating something like "it's raining cats and dogs" doesn't make sense to non-English speakers. You need to find a better equivalent that other nations understand. But not everything we say is in idioms. Most of our speech is straightforward. Idioms are just exceptions to the rule. Not the rule itself. If you rely too much on "idea-for-idea" and treated every possible phrase as an idiom, rather than "word-for-word" translation, then the translator themselves becomes too much of a component, always jumping in to filter every single thing through his own thought process and interpretations. When the role of the translator is to be as transparent as possible, as if they're not even there. Bad translators risk the original message getting blurred and everything becomes like a game of "telephone", if you will. That even happens in the same language at times. Bad rumors spread because people don't listen or interpret correctly.

Not that I'm trying to completely knock paraphrases though. They are like earlier periods in the church when people heavily relied on just oral stories, or creeds, or paintings, or songs in order to get the general message. But in order to have a dialogue with the bulk of God's word, you need to be more precise. Besides all of that, consider how blessed you are to even have such an opportunity. Most of us are literate and have so many options to read God's word. Take advantage of it. You don't need to rush things either. You have your whole life ahead of you. I thank God that you have seen the light, but we'll be on this journey forever. We'll always be learning from God, even in eternity.

And yes, this removes the same verses as the NIV. It's based on the same critical NT texts and not the Textus Receptus of the KJV. In fact, the NIV is more accurate than this, as far as translation method goes. It's not a paraphrase, but what they call a "dynamic translation". It was also made at a time when another paraphrase gained massive popularity in the 1970s: The Living Bible. What the NIV did was recognize the popularity of the Living Bible, but tried to focus the casual/modern language back in more structured, literal translation. The result was a middle ground. Not an outright paraphrase. This is why it's so popular. It tried to be the best of both worlds, and mostly succeeded at it. But to attack it for it's missing verses is strange, since the Voice and virtually all modern bibles use the same Critical NT editions.

One last thing, here's a vid from Bill Mounce. He's been the head of both the ESV and NIV translations now. He writes a major textbook on Greek that all seminary students are acquainted with. Take his advice here, where he says it's useful to have a more precise translation alongside a looser rendering.

And like said, you've got your whole life ahead of you. God bless.

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=EwrxWIgNYZQ

>>842108

I speak two languages (English & Spanish) and I can tell you that word for word translations are not as good as thought for thought or paraphrasing. And I don't mean literal word for word translations but as close to a word for word translation as possible while still maintaining the core message. These translations when done in media like cartoons for example are always cringe.

I highly recommend giving this bible a chance, compare a whole chapter with your favorite bible version to see that it's more than just a paraphrase bible. Biblegateway gives you access to the whole Voice bible, see for yourself that it really gets the message across and goes into detail to make sure you read it like the Greeks did.

That's the main goal of this bible and that's why I love it so much. It's a shame more people don't know about it and subconsciously compare it to The Message and instantly look down on it for not being word for word. Like I said as someone who speaks 2 languages, with word for word you have a higher chance of losing things in translation. You don't get the message the way it was intended, you don't read it the way the author wrote it.

The best version is the one that the unquestionable Holy Mother Church gave us to read.

>>842119

>compare a whole chapter with your favorite bible version

Ok let's see. Here's an example I found after a minute or so.

MATTHEW 5:22

> KJV But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment

< Voice But here is the even harder truth: anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged for his anger.

Wait a second though, in the KJV it says angry with his brother without a cause. You see that? It would be inaccurate to say angry in any case, otherwise is Jesus saying he will be judged for his own wrath when he turned over the tables of the moneychangers at the temple of God? Is all anger in danger of judgement, or only anger without a cause?

Here's another one as well:

JOHN 1:1

> KJV In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

< Voice Before time itself was measured, the Voice was speaking. The Voice was and is God.

Doesn't this remove the fact that the Word was with God and the Word was God?

JOHN 1:18

> KJV No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

< Voice God, unseen until now, is revealed in the Voice, God’s only Son, straight from the Father’s heart.

††

DANIEL 3:25

> KJV He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

< Voice Then why do I see four men, completely unbound, walking around in the middle of the fire? They don’t appear to be hurt at all. And the fourth . . . he appears to be like a son of the gods.

††

LUKE 23:42

> KJV And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

< Voice (turning to Jesus) Jesus, when You come into Your kingdom, please remember me.

††

LUKE 2:33

> KJV And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

<Voice His father and mother were stunned to hear Simeon say these things.

††

1 CORINTHIANS 16:22

> KJV If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

< Voice May those who have no love for the Lord be cursed. Maranatha, “Our Lord, come!”

††

EPHESIANS 3:14

> KJV For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

< Voice It is for this reason that I bow my knees before the Father,

>>842177

I notice you used only part of the verse from each version, why is that?

>Voice: But here is the even harder truth: anyone who is angry with his brother will be judged for his anger. Anyone who taunts his friend, speaks contemptuously toward him, or calls him “Loser” or “Fool” or “Scum,” will have to answer to the high court. And anyone who calls his brother a fool may find himself in the fires of hell.

<KJV: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Given the full context of the verse, do you think it really matters whether we are angry without cause if we're at a point of contempt? Do you think Jesus wants us to call people names? Speaking of which what is Raca? Why do I need a dictionary along side a KJV to understand what most things mean?

The message is pretty clear: Anger towards your brother (which in bible terms means fellow Christian) is wrong. Don't taunt or insult your fellow Christians, realize why you are doing this as it could be a sign that you aren't actually saved and are in danger. Next two verses add proper context as well.

>Voice: Therefore, if you are bringing an offering to God and you remember that your brother is angry at you or holds a grudge against you, then leave your gift before the altar, go to your brother, repent and forgive one another, be reconciled, and then return to the altar to offer your gift to God.

<KJV: Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

The Voice even says to repent and forgive, KJV says reconcile which is not a common word and one I had to look up to see the full meaning of and make sure what I believe it means is true. I'll admit KJV gets to the point but that point isn't as clear as The Voice which goes in depth and paints a better picture while you're reading. No dictionary required and you can feel the emotion and meaning while you read.

I should add that I just noticed that The Voice also has the word reconcile. Since the KJV was the previous version I searched to add its full context to the verse you originally cut in half I read that one first then looked up what reconciled means.

I had a pretty good idea of what it means but wasn't entirely sure. KJV simply says "first be reconciled to thy brother" and nothing more, Voice says "go to your brother, repent and forgive one another, be reconciled," which adds confirmation to what I believe reconciled means which is to come to terms with one another.

>Voice: go to your brother

<KJV: go thy way

One paints a picture of you going to the brother who is angry at you while the other seems to imply to go your own way which doesn't make sense. This painting of picture and adding more detail to emphasize words and give more meaning is why I believe The Voice is superior.