/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Apologies, I have been a christian for a decade. It has been tough, but I have always coped somehow.

What I have found is that the longer you make excuses, the further you cripple yourself. If you pray for things that are not vain, and "self-less", you will only start to see that prayer does not work.

Pray for a new friend, pray for that promotion, pray for "joy", pray for "understanding", "wisdom".. its possible you can get these.

Pray for God to reveal to you a way to help the world, or to make you capable of happiness in a world that cannot be helped.. well, this is self-less, meaning, you cannot do it yourself.. meaning God will not help you.

If he is there, he is only interested in helping those who pray for selfish things, or.. maybe he isnt what we think he is. or worse, there is nothing listening or whatever is listening does not care.

It cripples you to experience this, because you think you are to blame. I am done with the charade.

Ruminate the Lord's Prayer, it is the basis for proper prayer. It might help you.

>>841317

I have said the lords prayer, by my estimate, at least 10,000 times or more.

OP btw

>>841322

Don't say them, see it.

What sense is there in saying "thy will be done"? It is not a petition, neither is it sensible that, in the ultimate sense, the will of God shall not be done.

>>841325

You lost me here.

>>841322

Seems like I'm not the only one, who gets the silent treatment.

There are people, who ask Jesus almost sarcastically "Jesus, would you please save me?" and God shows Himself to them. And then there are people who don't know what to do anymore after decades of praying, because God never answers.

These guys Here can't help you. All they have is dogma without life. In the end they will say that you didn't do it right. Of course they have to blame your approach, otherwise their dogma would be a lie. They are as blind as we are, but they think they see while we consciously suffer in our blindness.

>>841329

yea, well, after all of these years it all boils down to what I said in the OP. Which pretty much just seems like you are the only one who can answer your prayers.

Unless one believes himself to be an automaton without free-will that god plays like a marionette, it appears that God doesn't do much.

Of course, there is the odd person here and there that has "miracles" happen to them, either by chance or by God finally, and they give everyone else false hope.

I personally do not see enough consistency for it to be a good use of my time - and I gave it many many years of my time, it just does not help me, or help me to help others.

>>841327

The purpose of prayer is not to convince the Father but to alter the spirit of he who prays.

>>841333

sounds like meditation seeing as you are simply doing something to "alter" yourself with no actual help from outside sources.

when you turn a wheel on a car do you pray before? If you did, would you consider it divine intervention that you made a turn?

not trying to get fedora here.. but prayer has never once helped me in all of the years I have done it, it has not helped anyone else, it has not helped my family or my community, it has all gotten worse.

I do not consider it to be a beneficial activity if you do it expecting to communicate with a god.

>>841340

I only meant that prayer is not to receive material but spiritual things.

>when you turn a wheel on a car do you pray before? If you did, would you consider it divine intervention that you made a turn?

Yes. I would also consider the same if it turned the other way.

>>841341

So you think that every single action that you take of your own free will is divine intervention? this is what you just said.

What is free will then?

This is what I am saying, prayer does nothing more than any other self-help technique (assuming you make sure to pray for only things that help yourself). Otherwise, pray for something you cannot do yourself, pray for others.. and prayer is useless. In my experience.

I didnt become a christian because I wanted rewards, I study the bible for years, read everything Jesus said, and pick it apart trying to find every single clue - because I was only after self-help.

I became a christian because I wanted to see how the power of good could help people in need. I thought maybe Christianity, and God specifically may have that power.

Turns out it was a huge waste of time and literally everything has crumbled around me and everyone else at the same rate as before.

I certainly did not become a christian to just read "feel good" stories about people I never knew, seeing God actually do something to help their world that I never saw.

And yes, I also doubt that Jesus will be riding in on a horse anytime soon to punish the evil people, its been 2000 years.

I became a christian because I wanted to help the world, and help people who are suffering.

prayer and Christianity has been useless for this. useless for anything that matters.

>>841345

>So you think that every single action that you take of your own free will is divine intervention? this is what you just said.

No. I just don't believe in natural laws. I take consistency in nature as an act of Divine Providence, such that "miracles" are not transgressions of an usually unbreakable norm but of the same type as them.

>What is free will then?

I don't believe that "What" questions make sense. Sorry, but I really don't want to talk about this in every other post of mine in this board.

>prayer is useless

What is a relationship based on use? Certainly not love.

>>841346

>I study the bible for years,

didnt*

>>841347

>What is a relationship based on use? Certainly not love.

useless platitudes like these are a waste of time for me anymore, I am looking for real results. I feel hoodwinked with the endless jargon and platitudes.

Why did you become a christian? to have a "relationship"? well have fun with your relationship, I hope you find it to be less one-sided than I did. My own imagination never was convincing enough.

>>841349

When you calm down, realize that love does not ask for results and that conviction is not faith. Perhaps if you were looking for your own conviction, you have never truly looked for another.

>>841351

Im sorry I don't even know what that means.

>>841352

Let me try something else.

I think you've supposed there is something you miss about faith, now your heart aches. Yet, I wish you to consider the possibility that you miss nothing and that what you're aching for is phantasmagoria.

>>841353

I don't think I have missed anything about "faith". The bible, Jesus, says that with faith one can move mountains.

I have found this to be untrue.

It cannot even help you locate the nearest person who is in dire need of help, go ahead, ask God in faith to alert you of someone who is in desperate need of help and has no way to contact anyone (there are many people in this situation at any given time), see if God answers your prayer, "inspires" you with the answer. He won't. This is what I mean.

>>841260

So, I think there's a bit of a problem here:

How do you know being yourself and excelling at what you do is not helping the world? Maybe that's all God wants at the time. I wanted to help the world, but three years ago I was feeding the homeless and talking to them. Now I'm looking at going back to Africa for a mission trip. I went a year ago on a mission trip.

I think the disconnect is trying to figure out God's heart. In the pursuit of this, it's not easy, it can be hard, but you start to understand Him more. Do you speak with Him? Like do you hear what He has to say to you? Start with that.

As goofy as it sounds, I was on a mission trip in Tijuana begging God to see someone die in front of me and pray for them to come back to life. I pleaded with Him that I had the faith, maybe this was partly done jokingly. Anyways, that didn't happen, that's not what He wanted. He instead wanted me to talk to a guy who opened up the doors for us to reach thousands more. What I'm saying is, your simple act of obedience doesn't have to be something grand to impact the world.

>>841354

Profound faith means profound dedication. Not even the Apostles could exhort demons without, not even them could remain fully comitted.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. You are condemning a mistaken view of faith. It is indeed a proper condemnation but only over this mistaken view. You would need to correct your view on faith, this correction is done through prayer and fasting.

Read the part about moving mountains, but go only a verse further. That is all that is needed.

>>841357

>Profound faith means profound dedication.

Pretty much but that's a weird way to phrase it. Faith usually used to mean being able follow a chain of logic to the end even when your emotions tell you not to. You can't understand Logos without faith which is why atheists who feel God isn't real but can't stick it out to understand arguments for His existence will never believe.

Maybe God put your limits there for a reason.

>>841355

>How do you know being yourself and excelling at what you do is not helping the world? Maybe that's all God wants at the time

So basically,

>pray about something you are capable of

<God might help

>pray about something you are incapable of

<God never helps

Seems like praying and Christianity is just a useless speedbump in this case, it just slows down people who are good and want to do good.

> Do you speak with Him?

I have prayed for many years, but no because ..

> Like do you hear what He has to say to you?

No. Of course I do not. I have never heard God speak to me, and my imagination does not count. I have tested that.

>>841357

>Profound faith means profound dedication. Not even the Apostles could exhort demons without

Another story of people I do not know, experiencing a god/gods power in a world I have not seen. Not useful, nor helpful. These things do not happen in todays world, and I am not trying to be a demon hunter…

>>841363

Maybe, and this is why I find the charade to be pointless and tiring. I have no need for it, if God has limited me and lied to me and wont tell me why.. I see no reason to pray to him. My better explanation is that the bible is simply, for the most part, not true and not based on anything real.

>Profound faith means profound dedication. Not even the Apostles could exhort demons withou

>>841366

>Profound faith means profound dedication. Not even the Apostles could exhort demons withou

went and did the captcha again and pasted that again by accident.

>>841366

So you're mad that God didn't give you something you wanted and now you're throwing a tantrum like a child.

>>841378

No, not mad. Just speaking to christians, hoping to have conversation, but you are just another person unwilling to even read. If you even took the time to read what I have said thusfar you would not make such an ignorant comment.

OP btw

>>841265

I am sorry for your struggles brother. I have prayed to God some nights and heard no answer and it has brought me great sadness.

But I think in the end, my belief is not based on how God intervenes in my life. The hope I place in the Lord is based on the cross. I know of nothing else more worthy of my hope than the cross. It is a beautiful act of God's love. Place your faith in God because of Christ. Christians go through times of doubt, we are only human. Sometimes are doubts are large and God's presence feels so weak we feel God isn't there at all. But like all things those times pass. Hold firm in the Lord and things will get better.

Have you tried talking to God? Telling him how you feel. Sometimes it's good to get everything you feel off your chest. Lay bare all you emotions of doubt and sadness. Tell him you don't know if he's there anymore. God understands you. I promise things will get better. I will pray for you.

>>841404

>Have you tried talking to God? Telling him how you feel.

Yes..

>Sometimes it's good to get everything you feel off your chest.

Agreed, but thats pretty much just therapy, self-help.

841417

>but thats pretty much just therapy, self-help.

If God is real prayer becomes much more significant than self help. Prayer is baring one's soul to God. God wants to listen to you and comfort you.

If you are convinced right now that God is not there then praying might feel empty, nothing more than self-therapy. But I ask you to keep faith and pray despite feeling no response. God is there and he loves you. Going to church and finding someone like a priest to talk to can really help.

>>841417

>but thats pretty much just therapy, self-help.

If God is real prayer becomes much more significant than self help. Prayer is baring one's soul to God. God wants to listen to you and comfort you.

If you are convinced right now that God is not there then praying might feel empty, nothing more than self-therapy. But I ask you to keep faith and pray despite feeling no response. God is there and he loves you. Going to church and finding someone like a priest to talk to can really help.

(sorry for the duplicate post)

>>841358

Shut up, nerd.

>>841366

There is nothing that could be said to help you. Dedication will help you, God does not pay in advance.

>>841417

The presence of God is Grace, my man.

I already told you that you're disappointed that God has dispelled part of your phanstasmagoria, but you did not consider it.

I am not acquainted to you, but I have had my stages of grief when my illusions were dispelled by Grace and I believe you're going through one of them. It's not nice to hear that what you believed was distorted, but a man has to be sincere above all. It happens to all.

>>841427

>There is nothing that could be said to help you.

right, like i said, its up to every man for himself.. basically. he can ask other men for help, they can decline or help. god will do nothing, whatever god is or IF god is. IMO.

>>841429

>The presence of God is Grace, my man.

I guess I have yet to experience gods presence, like you have apparently. I will take your word for it.

>I already told you that you're disappointed that God has dispelled part of your phanstasmagoria

>but you did not consider it.

I will not consider being told what I have said? Does this make sense to you?

OP btw