/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>841018

Most hard righters are Christian and heaps of Bible verses justifying hard right positions have been posted here a thousand times over. There is nothing difficult to understand about it. You just live in your own little fantasy world and throw a tantrum when people don't conform to it.

>>841020

If you want my honest opinion on politics I would say I'm socially conservative and economically liberal, and I am not a nationalist of any variety. My post was about Christianity and Ethnocentrism, not about Christianity and right wing politics in general. My point still stands, Christianity is not a crutch for you to defend your based and redpilled political views.

>If you disagree with me you're putting politics before systematic theology

>strawman strawman strawman

yawn

kinism is truth by the way

faithandheritage.com

>>841025

Please elaborate. I do not mean to imply Christian's shouldn't be involved in politics. But I think it's plain to see most Christians who partake in ethnic nationalism are putting ideology before faith, and just see Christianity as an identitarian religion.

>>841027

Christians shouldn't*

>>841027

You made the literal sjw leap from nationalism to holocaust and you're still doing it now

What exactly do you think ethnic nationalism or identitarianism means? What does nationalism mean for that matter?

>>841029

What are you talking about? I never mentioned the holocaust. I did mention antisemitism, but I think that's just another post hoc position that alt right Christians hold, I don't think it's a consequence of them being white nationalists.

>What exactly do you think ethnic nationalism or identitarianism means?

Identitarian in the sense they see Christianity as a defining characteristic of white/western identity. They're Christianity for cultural/political reasons, not spiritual. They think Christianity is a means to preserve their ethnic identity or defend the white race.

>>841027

The Bible speaks well of walls and America would've never had laws against miscegenation if it weren't for Christianity.

>>841031

It's been a characteristic of White identity for 2000 years and visible evidence shows Christianity + nationalism preserves Poland and Hungary, while the secular anti-racist west falls to degeneracy and browning.

>>841031

Anyone who sees Christianity as a tool in that way is reasoning backwards. My point is that you are wrongly accusing all identitarians of committing this error, when it's not even a significant issue on this board. That would be a fair judgment on cuckpol or old 8pol.

That's not also not what identitarianism is

OP, how did you land on 8kun? It seems an odd destination for someone unfamiliar with /pol/ image-board culture.

8kun hosts various boards, each dedicated to discussing various topics. Several of the most prominent boards are about white nationalism. 8kun is the successor to 8chan, which was quite well known to be a haven for alt-right groups, since it was one of the only places they would not be censored.

although this board is a general place for discussion, its going to have an alt-right flavor since it is linked with that community. i'm really curious why you are on this board.

They are banned everywhere elese, I believe.

I, for one, think one can't be of the same people while holding a different Creed, which is the mirrored position of what you're complaining. Though I agree there are some posts that has a retarded bent to them.

>>841029

Like him.

>>841018

The white nationalists are retards.

There is something to be said about the races being different, we are on some level, but this has taken them over. They ignore that Jesus says, "Love your neighbor as yourself." They ignore a lot, but most importantly, they ignore that they were undeserving of God's love and yet he still love them, so they should love others.

>>841142

But I am deserving of God's love. And the world knows it too, which is why the world hates me.

>>841085

substantiate yourself

>>841142

no, you're operating on a boogeyman idea of identitarianism

White nationalism is biblical because nationalism is biblical. Acts 17:36.

Nationalism here meaning supporting your own people and especially their right to survive with a homeland.

Japan for the japanese, palestine for the palestinians, etc.

>>841161

>White nationalism is biblical because nationalism is biblical. Acts 17:36.

This. It's Acts 17:26 though for anyone confused.

>>841163

ty

>>841018

Huge cope, literally doing what you accuse nationalists of, using the Faith as a cudgel against your political opponents (you just happen to be using it in favor of people who despise Christianity). Since you are for some reason uncomfortable with the obvious compatibility of faith and tradition with the nation state you're trying to project your own political neuroses onto the ones who want to preserve the nations God created.

>>841142

Not letting your nation be overrun by foreigners isn't contrary to Christian love ("Do unto others…" yeah, well I recognize the interest of other peoples to preserve the integrity of their homeland, whereas many including you don't think my people deserve that consideration). You are a literal coward who has totally surrendered to the world and is using a false characterization of the gospel to rationalize your own apathy and cowardice, because you don't think the welfare of your own people is worth sticking your neck out over and you're content with only "opposing" anti-Christian freaks on their own terms so that you never have to take an actual risk.

You mentioned loving your neighbor, do your own people count among your "neighbors", or do you use that term exclusively for people from the other side of the globe?

>>841161

So the Native Americans have a biblical right to The Americas

>>841179

If that's true then Whites have a Biblical right to Anatolia and the Middle East.

Against Ethnic Gnosticism:

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=Ip3nV6S_fYU

>>841179

Yes the various American Indian tribes have valid property rights to their ancestral homelands. Know that it was Christian colonists like those settling in Pennsylvania who explicitly purchased the right to settle from the amerindians.

Most of the continent was unsettled prior to European migration though

>>841163

Acts 17:26 does not prohibit race mixing. You can parrot it as much as you’d like, but it doesn’t make it so, which is why the context of this verse is always omitted (the context being Paul evangelizing to the Greeks of Athens by discussing God as Logos, the ultimate order that has guided history).

>>842158

Ethnonationalism and anti miscegenation are not the same topic

>>842160

It doesn’t support ethno-nationalism either when viewed in-context. None of the teachings of the apostles or Jesus command or even recommend an ethno-state.

>>842161

And nationalism (ethno or not) doesn't necessarily mean the state as a political construct, especially in the modern era nation state. This passage explicitly affirms the created order of the nations (ethnos) as distinct and with bounds between them.

>>842163

That’s obviously observed, even now. But my contention is the leap from this observation to saying that Paul said that we should splinter into ethnostates or maintain ethnostates even above Christian fellowship.

>>842166

From my perspective it seems like you're grasping at anything to discount the race realist perspective, especially since nobody is talking about Christian fellowship.

Interracial marriage is not a sin, its just wrong, irrational and destructive. Only a marriage of two faiths is a sin. By itself, though, race is not a theological issue, at least at the present moment. “Race” was not a separate category, abstracted from all else. There were certainly “races,” but these were not scientific categories in our modern sense. They were rather collections of common traits from culture to language to climate. The Israelites condemned race mixing most certainly, but they did not have the modern conception of race in mind. Race was intrinsically connected with faith, adherence to the law, family life and the underlying culture that a group of people had built together. It remains true that often, the reason for condemning such a marriage is that they are foreign, not necessarily that they believe differently. Race in isolation did not exist. Only the modern world takes important areas of human life such as economics or theology and treats them as separate from ethnicity or family.

>>842169

>Interracial marriage is not a sin, its just wrong, irrational and destructive.

I like the language St. Aquinas (and the Bible) used for it. It's a "snare" that leads to damnation.

>Only the modern world takes important areas of human life such as economics or theology and treats them as separate from ethnicity or family.

This is true. Before, religion and ethnicity being intimately intertwined was common sense and for some people still is like some Irish or Polish Catholic enclaves in America. The jews have successfully convinced the majority that is no longer the case meanwhile preserving religious ethno-centrism for themselves. Rules for thee but not for me.

>>842170

At what time are you referring to where polish or Irish Catholics in America were more observant than the majority population?

>>842168

I obviously feel the same. Acts doesn't make a strong argument.

>>842170

>thomas aquinas

Why do you insist on quoting this when, if you actually read the document, you’d know that he was discussing the degrees of separation that should be required by the church to marry someone (e.g. how many cousins removed one should be based on a number of theological reasons). It does not mention anything about race except when discussing the ancient Israelites keeping the covenant of Abraham. It’s a fascinating document about marriage and you should read it. ;^)

https://sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/sum599.htm

>>842184

Why are you pretending that a document that proves your agenda wrong does the opposite?

<Afterwards, however, towards these latter times the prohibition of the Church has been restricted to the fourth degree, because it became useless and dangerous to extend the prohibition to more remote degrees of consanguinity. Useless, because charity waxed cold in many hearts so that they had scarcely a greater bond of friendship with their more remote kindred than with strangers: and it was dangerous because through the prevalence of concupiscence and neglect men took no account of so numerous a kindred, and thus the prohibition of the more remote degrees became for many a snare leading to damnation.”

Aquinas literally says too much outbreeding is dangerous and a snare leading to damnation. The implications of this sentiment are very obvious. Miscegenation is bad and according to Aquinas even mixing ethnicity is bad. No matter how you cut it the modern jewish agenda of anti-racism is something completely foreign to historical civilization and would be seen as evil by both the Biblical peoples and the Saints. To deny this is delusional.

>>842188

That direct quote is speaking about the fact that marrying too close keeps family units insular and that marrying too far out of your family (which, keep in mind, were all roughly co-located due to travel limits) leads to estrangement. This was a matter of practicality, since it would be unreasonable of the church of the time to expect people to pack up and move far from their home to marry, not a matter of keeping racial purity (which he never once mentions).

>>841018

There are a lot of retards, simple as that.

>>842197

> Hence in olden times marriage was forbidden even within the more remote degrees of consanguinity, in order that consanguinity and affinity might be the sources of a wider natural friendship; and this was reasonably extended to the seventh degree, both because beyond this it was difficult to have any recollection of the common stock, and because this was in keeping with the sevenfold grace of the Holy Ghost. Afterwards, however, towards these latter times the prohibition of the Church has been restricted to the fourth degree, because it became useless and dangerous to extend the prohibition to more remote degrees of consanguinity. Useless, because charity waxed cold in many hearts so that they had scarcely a greater bond of friendship with their more remote kindred than with strangers: and it was dangerous because through the prevalence of concupiscence and neglect men took no account of so numerous a kindred, and thus the prohibition of the more remote degrees became for many a snare leading to damnation

Read in whole with the rest of the piece (which is about Whether the degrees of consanguinity that are an impediment to marriage could be fixed by the Church), he is, in the section you like quoting, discussing how close is too close with marriage between kin and how far is too far. When he discusses this, it is from the position of minimizing the destructive propensity towards what he calls concupiscence (which is essentially lust) towards close kin and the position of keeping the commandment to honor your mother and father, not from keeping ethnic harmony. The “snare” he talks about is of marrying too close to kin due to having no account of your family because of how wide-spread your kin becomes when the church prohibits intermarriage to extreme degrees. He believes that keeping the prohibition of up to four degrees makes this more manageable and will not lead to kin unknowingly marrying to their damnation.

>>842166

Except that the nation state isn't a barrier to Christian fellowship, global government, miscegenation, and mass immigration are.

Your argument is nonsense because your position undermines faith wherever it is observed, ergo the question of whether we should abandon ethnic identity when it gets in the way of "christian fellowship" is moot since ethnic identity is synergistic with Christian fellowship, whereas multiculturalism and anti-racism is antagonistic towards it. A better question is, how is the anti-racist position at all biblical, and why should it be tolerated since it is so obviously destructive of piety?

Every deracinated formerly Christian society is irreligous almost in perfect proportion to how deracinated it is, why do you insist on arguing for some counterfactual where not being "racist" fosters Christian fellowship when we have real life to show us that that is obviously the opposite of the truth?

>>842161

And none of them condemn them either you bolshevik

>>842223

>global government, miscegenation, and mass immigration are [a barrier to Christian fellowship]

The concepts are not inherently a barrier. It becomes one when the “global government” (there isn’t one has yet to be one) prevents or hinders Christianity from existing, when miscegenation involves marrying someone that does not believe in the Christian faith (which is a matter of religion and not race), and when mass immigration involves a large non-Christian population entering a Christian society. Would you have said that the mass immigration of Germans and Irish to USA was harmful to US Christianity? Is a white man wrong for marrying an Chinese Christian?

> your position undermines faith wherever it is observed, ergo the question of whether we should abandon ethnic identity when it gets in the way of "christian fellowship" is moot since ethnic identity is synergistic with Christian fellowship, whereas multiculturalism and anti-racism is antagonistic towards it

Can you tell me how segregation in the US was synergistic to the body of Christ? And explain what you mean when you say the buzzwords “multiculturalism” and “anti-racism?”

>deracinated formerly Christian society is irreligous almost in perfect proportion to how deracinated it is

This is a low-IQ take on a problem that is way more complex than, “brown people in white nation = bad!” You know (at least I hope you do) that Western Christianity’s issues don’t have much to do with racial harmony and more to do with Enlightenment subversion of Western society. Christianity has been on the decline for hundreds of years leading up to the racial issues of the last 50 years.

>And none of them condemn them either you bolshevik

This is very dumb. By this logic, let’s flood Western society with Muslims and Hindus, since the Apostles and Christ never mention immigration policies for nations.

I am a devout Christian and also my politics lean to the extreme far right. The thing you seem to be missing is that racism, misogyny, and hatred are not right-wing values. If you're looking for examples of right-wing extremists, look no further than the founding fathers of the United States, the men who believed that all were equal, the men who rejected the authority of man and sought God, the men who were angry that the law wouldn't allow them to free their slaves. Liberty, In God We Trust, and Out of Many One, these are the values of the right wing, and not a single one of them is contradicted by the Holy Bible, but rather it reinforces them.

>>842229

Good post

That is the general effect of the fathers but many held individual heretical views about God as a result of their enlightenment thinking

>>842216

No, he's saying it's bad because they barely love their remote kindred as much as they do distant strangers, so marrying them can lead to damnation. The obvious implication here is marrying distant strangers can also lead to damnation.

<Useless, because charity waxed cold in many hearts so that they had scarcely a greater bond of friendship with their more remote kindred than with strangers

Because God created nations and set their boundaries and times of being.

It's okay to not like someone because of their racial attributes. You can treat people with love while still not liking them. Indeed, you may call that more unconditional love. I personally cannot stand riggers, but even still, I treat them with kindness and am neighborly.

>>842229

Gay and Masonic post

Mit Brennender Sorge

Given by His Holiness Pope Pius XI

March 14, 1937

8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.

10. This God, this Sovereign Master, has issued commandments whose value is independent of time and space, country and race. As God's sun shines on every human face so His law knows neither privilege nor exception. Rulers and subjects, crowned and uncrowned, rich and poor are equally subject to His word. From the fullness of the Creators' right there naturally arises the fullness of His right to be obeyed by individuals and communities, whoever they are. This obedience permeates all branches of activity in which moral values claim harmony with the law of God, and pervades all integration of the ever-changing laws of man into the immutable laws of God.

11. None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all nations before whose immensity they are "as a drop of a bucket" (Isaiah xI, 15).

Summi Pontificatus

Given by Pope Pius XII

October 20, 1939

43. And the nations, despite a difference of development due to diverse conditions of life and of culture, are not destined to break the unity of the human race, but rather to enrich and embellish it by the sharing of their own peculiar gifts and by that reciprocal interchange of goods which can be possible and efficacious only when a mutual love and a lively sense of charity unite all the sons of the same Father and all those redeemed by the same Divine Blood.

44. The Church of Christ, the faithful depository of the teaching of Divine Wisdom, cannot and does not think of deprecating or disdaining the particular characteristics which each people, with jealous and intelligible pride, cherishes and retains as a precious heritage. Her aim is a supernatural union in all-embracing love, deeply felt and practiced, and not the unity which is exclusively external and superficial and by that very fact weak.

45. The Church hails with joy and follows with her maternal blessing every method of guidance and care which aims at a wise and orderly evolution of particular forces and tendencies having their origin in the individual character of each race, provided that they are not opposed to the duties incumbent on men from their unity of origin and common destiny.

72. A disposition, in fact, of the divinely sanctioned natural order divides the human race into social groups, nations or States, which are mutually independent in organization and in the direction of their internal life. But for all that, the human race is bound together by reciprocal ties, moral and juridical, into a great commonwealth directed to the good of all nations and ruled by special laws which protect its unity and promote its prosperity.

My Take On This

1. To worship your race, as some National Socialist, some BLM and many Jews do is a sin. (MBS 8)

2. All nations, races and peoples are bound to obey God's commands. (MBS 10)

3. Pope Pius XI has declared that those who believe in a national or racial god are of a simple mind. (MBS 11)

4. The different races are different, but all those who are united and redeemed by Christ should help each other as they can (SP 43)

5. It is a sin to depreciate the traits of another race because of our own pride (SP 44)

6. I think (SP 45) says each race can develop on their own as long as they don't oppose the duties they have to the entire human race.

7. God divided us into races, nations and states and they can direct themselves as long as they work for the good of all humanity.

All in all, this can be taken as an indictment of our Zionist and White supremacist brothers.

>>842278

>Because God created nations and set their boundaries and times of being.

While i'm a fan of nation-states, your logic is historically faulty, since until the 19th century, the world was filled with multinational empires.

>>842284

And they suck. Look at America.

>>842290

Again, im on the nation-state side, but empires were pretty much the norm until 200 years ago, so historically, what you are trying to imply with that verse doesn't make sense in the pre-modern era.

>>842293

Nations are nations, anon. Whether man abides by them is irrelevant. When man goes against God, bad things happen. Empires suck. They have a prosperous period, but collapse and formation is terrible and destructive for all involved.

Nation-state is a government entity. A nation is biological. Don't confuse the two.

>>841018

>Why are there so many Christians on this site who are also white-nationalists/alt-rightists of some kind? They may not be a majority, but they're clearly a sizable group.

>

Because Christians hold Christian views and the love and defense of your own people is Christian.

>I honestly and truly can't stand these people who are basically Christian because they see it as counter-culture.

Who cares what you think about the reasons why people are Christian? You're just the average brainwashed goat pushing progressive stupidity. You should go find some other place to hang out. If we want to hear your views, we'll just turn on CNN

You can understand the Nationalist position in this way.

Christian charity does not demand that an individual man must commit. So too it does not demand that an extended family (which is what a nation is) collectively commit suicide. Wanting your nation to exist as it is supposed to, that is unadulterated by other nations, is the same as desiring to not kill yourself individually.

>>841025

I just discovered Faith and Heritage recently, a shame they don't post new content but they have some great writers there.

>>842301

Except the Church was fine with, and blessed multiethnic empires for 19th centuries.

They were usually somewhat against the fragmentation of empires into nation-states, during the 19th century.

What you call the way of God was a factual impossibility for 19 centuries, for most of the globe.

Interethnic mingling was also not a thing they cared about, unless the other person was a muslim or something.

>>842371

So you're just a sperg, basically.