/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>840766

>there are ways we can loose that salvation

John 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

>>840789

Yes I know about this scripture. You are ignoring the rest of the gospel. There are plenty of scriptures proving one can lose their salvation. Why do you ignore those scriptures.

For example, A television consists of pixels of blue red and yellow. One can pick out a single pixel and say the screen is all yellow or all blue or all red. But when you want to see the picture, you look at everything. Your pulling out a single scripture and trying to make a weak point. This is true considering the context it is in. But not bible based considering the Bible in its entirety. How do you claim faith in the Bible when you ignore so many scriptures clearly showing one can loose their salvation?

>>840794

The rest of the gospel and the Bible can't contradict any one part of it. None of the examples furthermore you supposedly have, disproves Jesus' sayings, that's why you haven't actually brought or mentioned a single Bible passage in this entire thread to support your insinuations. Bring up any passage and I'll show using Scripture, how both it is right, how John 5:24 is simulteneously right, and how you are wrong.

>>840795

And the passage in revelation about God “blotting out” names of the saved from the book of life? I’ll post the scripture after I’m free in about ten minutes. But your right, I should post scriptures.

I’m gonna start with 1 Corinthians 5: 1-5. In these scriptures it explains that a fornicator should be handed over to satan for the destruction of his flesh in order for the spirit to be saved in the day of the Lord.

For someone to be handed over to satan they have to no longer be God’s property. And furthermore that person is handed over to satan so that he can see his wrong and have a chance to be saved, because he is no longer saved. Now, what’s your interpretation of these scriptures?

>>840795

Philippians 3:17-19.

Paul is referring to some former brothers who were once saved and now are enemies of the cross. He used to mention them regularly which shows Paul had no doubt about their salvation now he states that their end is destruction.

>>840796

Revelation 3:5 is talking about those that will not have that happen. Whereas if you look at Revelation 22:19 you have those to whom that will happen, and those are describing unsaved people who are taking things out of the Bible. In either of those, there's nothing about a saved person who is the subject of John 5:24 coming into condemnation, so it does not contradict what Jesus said.

>>840798

>For someone to be handed over to satan they have to no longer be God’s property.

That's an unwarranted conclusion.

As for the idea that anything is not God's property, that is done away by the statement that "all things are given into his hand" in John 3:35.

As it also says in 1 Corinthians 15:27,

<For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

Also shown to be not true in this case, because look at Job chapters 1 and 2, it does happen.

>And furthermore that person is handed over to satan so that he can see his wrong and have a chance to be saved, because he is no longer saved.

In general it isn't stated whether a fornicator is saved or not, but in both cases the instructions are the same for us not to eat with them, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:11.

As to whether or not the person is saved being undefined, see 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

<For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

<But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

>>840799

The apostle Paul regularly warned the churches about false prophets, that's again who he was referring to again there, saying they are (currently) enemies of the cross of Christ. Notice he mentions weeping, similar to how Paul was warning the Ephesian elders with tears, day and night for three years, about the same, in Acts 20:28-31 [see verse 31].

>>840795

No one disagrees it is a consistent text. The claim is that you're reading it wrongly, proven by the fact that your reading goes into conflict with the vulgar view of the other passages.

>>840801

>Whereas if you look at Revelation 22:19 you have those to whom that will happen, and those are describing unsaved people who are taking things out of the Bible.

No. Those are people who are saved because their names are in the book of life, you can’t get your name on that book without accepting Jesus and furthermore that book was handed to Christians and Christians were told they would loose their salvation if they removed anything.

>>840801

>That's an unwarranted conclusion.

No it’s not. It’s heavily implied. They are given to satan which can’t be done without Christ “spiting them out”. That passage ends with “in order for them to be saved in the day of the Lord”. That proves that they are no longer considered saved. Their salvation requires them to see their action’s consequences and repent before that day. That is not an unwarranted conclusion. That is clearly proof that they lost their salvation.

>>840801

>As it also says in 1 Corinthians 15:27,

<For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

This is not talking about the souls of all men. This is talking about heaven and earth and jurisdiction over everything that has been created. A quick glance at the context would’ve cleared this up for you.

>>840801

>Also shown to be not true in this case, because look at Job chapters 1 and 2, it does happen.

I’m beginning to get very insulted by your use of the Bible.

Job is a story of the most righteous man of his time going through a trial, not a destruction. Not a punishment. He did nothing to be punished for. satan just wanted a crack at him. He wasn’t “handed over” to satan. satan was the one asking God for permission for his next attack and God was telling him what he can and can’t do to Job. Job was God’s, if he was given to the devil as you think he was he would've been the devils property and the devil wouldn’t need any permission from God for anything.

>>840801

>In general it isn't stated whether a fornicator is saved or not, but in both cases the instructions are the same for us not to eat with them, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:11.

>As to whether or not the person is saved being undefined, see 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

These words do not prove me wrong. The congregation judges the fornicator and kicks them out. Paul does not come and rejudge the person kicked out or anyone else outside of the church. The church threw the fornicator out because we are not to tolerate such behavior. The fornicator has lost his salvation through repetitive fornication most likely, not just one fall.

The world now judges that person, not the congregation, because he belongs to the world. The congregation has already judged him a sinner, an unrighteous man. And he is given to satan because Christ no longer wants him. He needs to see his faults in order to have the humility necessary for repentance and the possibility to once again be saved. That is not a stretch, that is what’s being said.

>>840801

>The apostle Paul regularly warned the churches about false prophets, that's again who he was referring to again there, saying they are (currently) enemies of the cross of Christ. Notice he mentions weeping, similar to how Paul was warning the Ephesian elders with tears, day and night for three years, about the same, in Acts 20:28-31 [see verse 31].

Philippians 3:17-19 are not people that started as false prophets. They were brothers Paul loved dearly. He would mention their names often to brothers at one point. They strayed from the path. They weren’t false prophets from the start, they were saved men. So it does prove that salvation can be lost, in this case through “apostasy”. I know that word and the word “heretic” is thrown around a lot these days but real apostasy and heresy is a salvation loosing sin.

My spirit is very aggravated toward you right now. I’m very disappointed in how you addressed my concerns. I opened myself up to hearing what you had to say and you used many scriptures out of context and I’m offended by how little you think of my intelligence. You don’t critically think when you read. I pointed out very good examples. I’ll point out another.

Christ told one of the churches in revelation that he will spit them out of his mouth because they are lukewarm. This means that they are neither hot toward God or cold toward him. They loved being in the middle. Christ hated them for that. He gave them a warning that He was getting fed up. They were in danger of loosing their salvation as well, the whole church.

Why would you insult me with your blindness. What kind of a person wants to believe in a God that ignores a persons actions and saves them just for bowing to Him, one time. Just by declaring Jesus the messiah, one time. Afterwards our actions have no consequences? Why would this mentality attract you? No righteous person wants to worship a God that doesn’t punish unrighteousness. No righteous man wouldn’t feel insulted if his own God showed the same love for evil people as He does for the righteous. Just like we can loose our spouses due to our own infidelity, God can blot out our names from the book of life due to our own infidelity toward Him and “grieving the Holy Spirit” (look it up, I’m very poor when it comes to memorizing scripture numbers). It’s definitely not easy to get blotted out. But very possible. You didn’t debunk a single thing I pointed out.

I know your going to see this post as “just another arrogant man who doesn’t want to accept the truth” but I guarantee you sir, one of us definitely is “just another arrogant man who doesn’t want to accept the truth”.

>>840804

Hi. The vulgar or common view is not necessarily the Holy Spirit guided truth of any given issue.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Proverbs 16:2

All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

Matthew 7:13

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

>No one disagrees it is a consistent text.

Yes actually many people do. These are the ones who keep saying look at the context, etc. Because they think it was written by a bunch of discoordinated men, not inspired words given by God. They might not openly say they think it's not consistent, but functionally they act under that assumption and try to bring others to act under that assumption by constantly talking about how the book was written over a period of time, different cultures, etc. Thereby implicating that it isn't consistent and that one part of scripture, by implicit assumption, cannot reference another. And they laugh at those who act like it's God-inspired.

>>840805

>That is clearly proof that they lost their salvation.

No, it's absolutely clearly not. It never said they were to begin with. You read that in as an assumption because it fits your presupposed conclusion, not because it's actually there. The word NEVER said they were saved to begin with. You just read that in. You made it up. It's not there. The passage never says they were saved. And by the way you have provided no Scriptural evidence whatsoever for any of your conclusions.

It's not heavily implied. You just added things in that are NOT there.

>That proves that they are no longer considered saved.

It never said they were to begin with.

>Their salvation requires them to see their action’s consequences and repent before that day.

Yet this has nothing to do with your point.

>Those are people who are saved because their names are in the book of life, you can’t get your name on that book without accepting Jesus

Give us Chapter and verse on this. Show us where in scripture this thought came from so we can know it isn't just something you imagined up for us right now to help you reach some predetermined conclusion regardless of what Scripture itself actually says.

>furthermore that book was handed to Christians and Christians were told they would loose their salvation if they removed anything.

False ones were warned in advance that they would be condemned yes. It says in verse 18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book" See that? It says EVERY MAN THAT HEARETH, not just saved people. See that? It is talking to every man that hears, not just to saved believers.

>This is not talking about the souls of all men. This is talking about heaven and earth and jurisdiction over everything that has been created.

All things means all things. You didn't answer John 3:35. All things means all things. You ar ewrong here. You didn't cite any scripture to support any of the things you said here, it was all just empty talk with zero grounding in even a single scripture passage.

>if he was given to the devil as you think he was he would've been the devils property

You didn't cite any scripture to support any of the things you said here. And I already showed how that is not possible above, using actual Bible references, as we've already seen above. The fact that God owns all things has already been shown given by the fact that "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."

>The fornicator has lost his salvation

The passage never mentions salvation, you just added that little extra thing at the end there to reach your presupposed conclusion. The actual passage never says "lost salvation" nor does it imply the person was ever saved. It doesn't say anything like what you are alleging right now.

>The world now judges that person

No, it says them that are without God judgeth! You just added that the "world" judges without any Scripture reference. It says God judges. Learn to at least read the Scripture passage before coming on here and spreading your false doctrine that is misleading to people about what the Scripture passage actually says. It doesn't say the world judges them, it says that God judges them. You can't just go around changing details like this, that's how you get to your false worldly conclusions

>And he is given to satan because Christ no longer wants him

Where does 1 Corinthians 5 say that?!!

You're literally just making up whatever you want. I'm telling you, stop doing that. Start actually referencing actual Scripture.

>That is not a stretch, that is what’s being said.

No it's not nowhere in the passage is what you are saying actually there. You added the ideas in yourself, you mixed in false doctrine. It never says that that person is actually saved, it never says that. It never says that they lost salvation either, it never says that. Why are you lying about what the Biblical passage actually says? And why are you coming on here and spreading that lie? The explanation already given makes perfect sense, you are just disagreeing because it doesn't suit your personal taste and fancy so you think you can just add in all these extra details that are not actually there, and are being led down the broad path to destruction by this act.

>Philippians 3:17-19 are not people that started as false prophets.

Philippians 3:17 is talking to the brethren, and 3:18-19 is mentioning the people he warned them about repeatedly, the false prophets. Those false prophets sneak in privately into the church but they were never saved from the start. Just like Judas Iscariot as a typical example.

Jude v.4

>For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The people who are enemies of the cross of Christ in Philippians 3:18-19 are false prophets who deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. As the Bible says in 1 John 2:19, they went out from us because it was made manifest that they were not of us.

>No righteous person wants to worship a God that doesn’t punish unrighteousness.

Job 34:10-12

10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.

11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

>>840813

Saying to look at the context is not a claim of it being wrong but of you not understanding it. It is a critique of you, not of the book.

Do you understand?

>>840814

I see how you read the Bible, you only read word for word and you never ponder on what the heart of those accounts teaches.

Each lesson in the Bible reveals God’s personality. You clearly don’t have the ability to see the heart of all these lessons. You want everything taught to you directly and refuse to use critical thinking and carry over what you’ve learned about God through each of the Bible’s books.

You regurgitate scriptures out of context and no one can teach you anything but your pastor who you’ve given your mind to. The Holy Spirit would’ve shown all this to you if you truly believed one can hear it’s voice. There are things that don’t have to be said all throughout the Bible because the people that these letters were addressed to already knew certain lessons. You want a robotic and direct set of words in scripture in order to believe something. Many lessons require one to know the personality of God in order to understand what’s being said.

You constantly ask “where does it say this”? If you’ve carried over the heart of the lessons you’ve learned from previous books of the Bible you would see these scriptures clearer.

Honestly, you have no critical thinking. I wonder why your so attracted to OSAS? The Bible does not support it. You think your standing firm against lies but your just showing how little you know about God. If you don’t see the points that are being made in these first few passages then you are lying to yourself. You didn’t debunk a single one. You just like to believe you did.

It’s actually very clear in the Bible’s entirety that salvation can be lost. You just refuse to accept this until you read words that say “salvation can be lost” in the Bible. That is no way to get closer to God. You are limited to how close you can get to God because of your fear of the workload that goes into reading the Bible and comprehending it properly.

Osas gave you some sort of comfort. I don’t know what that may be. But anyone who believes in osas only does so because of a major underlying problem they have with themselves and/or God Himself. The thought of loosing salvation scares you. It is nothing to fear. One can’t loose their salvation accidentally. One has to be an obstinate sinner in order to loose that salvation. It’s only fair that God and the heavenly family don’t tolerate serious sinners, the brotherhood as well. Why should one use the blood of Jesus to indulge in serious sins? Many osas believers sin all kinds of sins and they just keep at it believing that Jesus meant to die so they can keep sinning.

Why would osas doctrine bring you happiness? I wonder. To a righteous man it brings anger and an appalled spirit. What are you running from? What are you trying to forget? You should be appalled at the thought of osas. God I’m curious. Why do you want it to be true so bad? It’s not.

>>840814

>Give us Chapter and verse on this. Show us where in scripture this thought came from so we can know it isn't just something you imagined up for us right now to help you reach some predetermined conclusion regardless of what Scripture itself actually says.

Is one saved any other way besides accepting Jesus as lord and savior? How else would one get their name in the book of life after Jesus’ sacrifice? Is there any other way? I’ve never come across any other way, have you?

How did you not comprehend at least this much?

>>840821

You remind me of someone. Is your name Mike by any chance? Probably not but your so similar to another osas believer I know. He has absolutely no critical thinking. I cornered him once about his beliefs and he declared “Jesus is not the Christ”. I had witnesses to him saying this and he denies ever saying it till this day. Osas is a belief that people with no critical think often fall into. It perplexes me.

>>840817

Shall not come into condemnation is a pretty clear statement. What people are doing is looking for a way to turn that around, and therefore, falsify the saying. We can just keep going back to John 5:24 as many times as necessary to prove these false doctrines wrong if that's truly what they disagree with.

Now if you're talking about unsaved people not being saved, people who don't meet the criterion of the statement, then yes, that's true they don't fall under the subject of John 5:24. Those are the people that are lost. But no matter what you do you can't overturn that fact of what was said. He also said in John 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

So that's the question. DO you actually believe what Jesus says when he says whosoever. In fact it seems like there are exceedingly few who actually believe what he says. It's not something that people would be gratified by, it doesn't gratify the sense of pride. You have to admit your inability to save yourself. You have to admit that you truly cannot equal God in the slightest thing in order to believe this. People naturally want their works to save them. They want to think they kept themselves from condemnation. It's all the same thing. That's what all false religions teach.

>>840824

I know I can’t work for salvation, no one can. Salvation is a gift. But once given it I know I must now be able to do works because of the Holy Spirit producing fruits through me. A life that shows my salvation, and the Holy Spirits presence.

OSAS does not believe in that. Jesus also said those who love God keep his Commandments. If one loves God for the salvation he’s provided through the Son then they would keep his commandments.

>John 11:26 - everyone that’s living and exercises faith in me will never die at all.

From another scripture we know that faith without works is dead. So our faith absolutely has to be manifest with works. See what I mean by you not applying the other teachings?

>John 5:24 - Most truly I say to you, he that hears my word and “believes” him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgement but has passed over from death to life.

The word used for “believes” is the same word for “faith”. Same as John 3:16. Faith is shown through works. These scriptures are not debunking what I’m saying.

Are you a believer? Do you have faith? These two questions are the same question.

>>840824

Without God's help I can do nothing, that is my position. Though it is not what I tried to say.

I'm trying to tell you that people who disagree with you disagree over what the text says, not that one should not follow it.

>>840826

>But once given it I know I must now be able to do works because of the Holy Spirit producing fruits through me. A life that shows my salvation, and the Holy Spirits presence. OSAS does not believe in that.

I'm not sure what "OSAS" is supposed to be referring to. It might or might not be referring to a true and correct idea depending on how a person defined it. Maybe there are some antinomians that really do think this, I'm not leaving that off the table but antinomianism is not what the Bible says. However, if it simply means disproving the concept of losing salvation, then it is correct, because according to multiple scripture passages a person who hears the Word and is saved by grace through faith thereby receives the adoption of sons and are predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, so nothing can remove said saved person who has been saved by grace, not by works or merits to earn this but from the election given by God, nothing can remove said person from said promises that have the surety of the word of God behind them. Also, there are some who, for God's own reason, he does not allow to believe [John 12:37-40, Proverbs 16:4, Romans 9:20-23. Also Romans 1 and Isaiah 66:4]. Now it is possible only for oneself to be assured in themselves that since they believe, they have knowledge of His word regarding them, while with regard to how it relates to other people it is only possible to see their works and thereby determine (Matthew 7:20, 1 John 4:2, 2 Peter 2:1, Jude 1:4) whether or not they are acting like they are saved or not. 1 John 2:19 deals with cases where it becomes evident that other people who you might have believed were saved end up leaving the faith. That's because you can't read their mind and see, whether or not it is only an outward profession. That has nothing to do with personal assurance based on the word of God (1 John 5:13) about the truth and veracity of his own statements (Hebrews 6:18-19) about whosoever believes having passed from death unto life, and shall not come into condemnation (John 5:24). Despite not being able to directly see into the mind of what other people believe, it is true also however, that and inward belief that exists is guaranteed to be sanctified (Philippians 1:6, Romans 8:30). Therefore people are justified to other men through their works (James 2:14-26), but justified to God through faith which is first given by grace (Romans 4:1-8, 1 Corinthians 4:1-4, 1 Peter 1:5).

Moreover, the acts of a saved person are not actually their works but God working through them (1 Corinthians 15:10, Philippians 1:6, Philippians 2:13) so that they cannot boast of them before anyone (1 Cor 1:27-29, Romans 3:27, 4:2) nor do these works save them or keep them saved, because that relies on the effectualness of the blood of the Son, remitting sins (Eph. 4:1-9, Hebrews 9:14, Titus 3:5), and on grace not on anything we have done (Romans 11:6 KJV). If some other person leaves the faith it only proves that they had not believed (1 John 2:19), because God's word cannot be broken (John 10:35).

>John 11:26 - everyone that’s living and exercises faith in me will never die at all.

That's from a modern version. What John 11:26 says is this:

>And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

>>840913

>because God's word cannot be broken (John 10:35).

I should say, we know this because God's word cannot be broken regarding those who believe (John 10:35).

>>840913

Brainlet here, can you state with simple words what you believe? I tried reading your walls of text and I have no idea what you're talking about. How do you know you're saved? Are you saved by faith alone?

>>840942

>Brainlet here, can you state with simple words what you believe? I tried reading your walls of text and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sorry, I would post every single scripture reference if it didn't cause my posts to become unreadably long. Or if I could at least make the references expand outward so people can read them more conveniently. I apologize.

>How do you know you're saved?

One can know they are saved based on recognizing God's word for truth, and by being given (from Him) the understanding and confidence in His trustworthiness to uphold every thing He has said in it. It requires that one believe God for his word, something made possible by the grace that God bestows on those that ask for it.

God's word says that whosoever believeth shall not come into condemnation. We see this repeated over and over again in numerous assurances, such as John 5:24 >>840789 (You) and John 3:16, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The Apostle John even wrote in his Gospel the reason why these things are written:

> John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

> 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Therefore we should hear or read Scripture including the epistles and Gospel of St. John if we want to accomplish this purpose and obtain this knowledge.

>Are you saved by faith alone?

The Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9 said thus:

>For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Apostle Peter also said this (1 Peter 1:3-5) in his general epistle:

>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

>To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

>Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

>>840942

>>840951

Hey, I just wanted to add I really hope and pray that helps. I'm really tired so hopefully what I wrote makes sense and that it doesn't come off the wrong way, friend. God bless you. Those are the answers I would give.

>>840961

Does believing differ from asserting?

>>840913

I see what your trying to say. It clears up some things. Osas followers believe in “once saved always saved”. That means they can sin to their liking and live lives filled with fornication and idolotry and etc. and they still believed they are saved.

You however are saying that they must show fruits of the Holy Spirit if they are truly saved. If this is what you are saying then I find your view on the matter more agreeable than before. I view it from another angle, but still agree fully that one can’t do any works to merit salvation, the salvation is a gift and afterwards works are a must, the fruits that prove our salvation.

The angle your coming at it from makes it sound like one can’t do a thing to get off the road of destruction, he is built to be a vessel for destruction from the start and no matter what he/she does they will fail. I don’t believe that is God’s way, I believe God shows mercy to such vessels when they show through their actions that they do not want to be vessels of wrath. I believe ones coarse can change. You seem to believe in unchangeable destiny, that can’t be the case. God would be cruel if that were so. Free will would be a farce to some degree if that were so, since free will can set you from one path to the other no matter the vessel you are.

Your creating more questions than answers. Although you might not mean to. Not that I wish this toward you but if ever life makes you feel your a vessel of wrath, like it did to me a few years ago, you would see how unfair that mentality would be. I think your misunderstanding those scriptures like you misunderstood Job being “given over” to satan.

Much like I used to be you also read the Bible after first believing in what you’ve been taught to believe. This warps ones ability to understand the scriptures, many scriptures can be taken in a completely different way, depending on what a person wants to hear when they read them. I don’t know why God meant it to be this way, but one has to want to be on the path to destruction in order to reach destruction. God is Just and Holy, none of that can be true if He makes people with a set coarse, everyone can be saved, that is why God wishes for all to be saved. It’s the person’s choice to go down a destructive path. Otherwise God is cruel.

In summary I’m glad to hear you believe a saved individual must show works. I hope I heard that much clearly at least. I believe a saved individual must show works as well. Neither me or you are stating that one has to work for salvation, your stating on has to have works to prove their salvation, I’m stating one has to do works to maintain their salvation. We seem to agree that the works must be there after salvation is given to a person.

When I read the Bible I abandon every thought or mentality that makes God unjust. I seek the mentality that scriptures back up and simultaneously shows God’s Just and Holy nature.

I stand by my statement that salvation can be lost, I hope I don’t sound arrogant by saying that. The scriptures do not support a Just God the way you read them, the scriptures talk about grieving the Holy Spirit, which one can not do without having it, which can not be gotten without being saved. You are not carrying all the scriptures in your mind before creating a solid stance on matters. When the Holy Spirit is grieved we loose our salvation. When the Holy Spirit is grieved we are given over to satan. God does not place the Holy Spirit in any vessel that is not saved. It’s just something I know to be true from a complete understanding of the matter. God would be insulting the Holy Spirit by placing it in a vessel that is bound for destruction, so he only places it in those that are saved. So when Paul is telling Christians to not grieve the Holy Spirit, he’s telling them that it’s possible to loose their salvation. Focusing on scriptures is ok but doesn’t allow a Christian to see the spirit of the Philosophies of God. The truth must be felt in many places of the Bible, not just read. You need to feel God’s personality in the scriptures not allow the scriptures to warp God’s personality.

>>840766

Even if you are justified by faith alone, this still begs the question: why would you even WANT to leave it at "faith alone", in a practical sense? Why wouldn't you WANT to hate sin and work on removing it?

How does pondering soteriology help you or anyone else in any practical sense? You have your life in the here and now too. Salvation is a bigger issue than some matter of Judgement on the Last Day. The real and crucial issue of Salvation is about HEALTH. First your own health, and that of the world. And Jesus isn't merely a Judge, but the Great Physician to help us in fighting sin in our day to day lives. Living in sin is not conducive to this life, let alone the next. Sin causes nothing but grief and even horror in this world. It isn't just a matter of Eternity and your salvation - it absolutely messes up everything down here too. So we are to focus on that as well. After all, Christ said we are to be lights in this world. We're called to improve it. And that starts with removing the darkness in ourselves. You can't bring light to the world if you're just as bad as everyone else. You have to have the light within you to even shine brightly enough to help others find a sense of direction.

>>841185

I never said one has to be content with just salvation and not fight sin. Serious sin. We are all imperfect and Christ does not heal our imperfect state to the point of perfection. I’ve simply accepted that I’m imperfect as all men and Christians are. Even the most successful Christian has imperfections.

We’re all funny here. I hear you guys talking about faith alone and to me it sounds like you guys are ignoring that a Christian must abstain from serious sin. You hear me talk about maintaining salvation through works and many of you take it as working toward salvation. The problem here is that you’ve all been lied to about many things. One of the biggest things you’ve been lied to about is the definition of fornication. You’ve all misunderstood me I’m not trying to coax you people to lower your guards, only to accept what it means to be imperfect. You don’t accept the reality of what it means to be imperfect in this satanic system. Not a single apostle was perfect, if you can’t accept this then your hopeless.

None of them put emphasis on masturbation, as one example. When they talked about fornication, they always were talking about physical sex with someone. I have never told anyone on this board that fornicating is ok. I’ve simply only pointed to the fact that masturbation is not fornication. And definitely not as serious as you people take it to be.

In all seriousness I look at every Christian as having the ability to abstain from fornication, idolatry, murder, spiritism (didn’t think I had to emphasize this from the start but because you’ve been lied to about marijuana I have to as well to show you all that I believe you believe in many lies).

No Christian who is saved is allowed to do these serious sins. You all seem to think I’m indulging in serious sins. I definitely don’t. Unlike the many of you I’ve allowed only the Bible to define these things for me and I’m sick of being on here and trying to do what your fathers should have done and explain these things to you all.

Many of you worship your churches and your church approved teachings. They lead you astray and warp your definition of everything. To a point where communication is impossible because you lack the true definitions to these things. There all under your noses while you read the texts and you refuse to meditate on what you have just read. You refuse to allow Jesus to lighten your burdens by removing the impossibly heavy stone of the Pharisees from your shoulders and replace it with the cross we all must bear.

No one said, “be hethenistic”. If I can’t even get anywhere with you people on the basic definition of fornication then I refuse to share the heavier foods with you all. The most precious thing I have to impart to you all is that the Holy Spirit is Mother. That is the sweetest dish I can share with you all. But you’ll never touch that dish, you think it to be poison. You trust your superstitions too much. You take pride in hurting yourselves with warped ideologies about Christianity. You judge people based on a set of morals handed down to you by people who you are not supposed to trust.

You’ve made the mistake many make when they first set out to find Christ, you credited your churches for helping you find Him. In reality it was your efforts in the beginning of your journeys that Christ blessed and your will to read the Bible and let it tutor you all, this is the reason you all felt the Holy Spirit at the start and you gave your denominations the credit when it was Christ that decided to let you find Him. This is why many people just stick to the first denomination they entered, this is why many of you just ate whatever spiritual lesson those denominations gave you without though because you told yourselves, “well, they were right about things so far, I’ll just trust them with everything even if I don’t understand it”.

Your all too afraid to let the Holy Spirit guide your judgments and it’s your churches that have instilled that fear in you so you’ll never leave them.

I’ve been there, I found Christ in a cult and ate whatever that cult fed me till it destroyed my faith. Then I found Christ again without the help of any denomination, and I got the answers to all of my questions. I don't bother to ask the Holy Spirit many things because I finally found peace. I don’t need to know everything God is doing. I just had to wrap my head around who He is. Something I’ve been trying to achieve since I was 6. It took me years, it shouldn’t have taken that long, but it did because we are born with so many lies about God. By the time one figures out that the Bible is an imperfect tutor and that The Holy Spirit is our guide a third of your lives will be gone, you will make many mistakes until then. Many of you, like me, will be too old to have a decent chance of finding a virgin to marry till then.

I hate those that say all you need is faith to be a Christian, no, that’s all you need to obtain salvation. I don’t respect those that say you must follow every letter of the law and be perfect, no, that’s impossible and we all know it. These are the things all Christians can abstain from all throughout their lives without slipping a single time:

>No Fornication (any sexual act before marriage, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, etc.)

>No idolatry (bowing to idols, using items in prayer, worshipping saints, worshipping other Gods, spiritism, blindly following anything but the Holy Spirit. One is only allowed to Follow the Holy Spirit “blindly”)

>Bloodshed (Murder, not self defense)

These things a Christian will never have an excuse for not keeping perfectly till death. Yes there may be forgiveness from God. But it will always be the fault of the Christian for breaking these even once. And when broken knowingly and regularly one can loose their salvation when the Holy Spirit is grieved and leaves.

<Masturbation is not fornication, use your bibles properly. Don’t be children terrified of anything sexual and start being men!

<The use of Drugs and Alcohol is not spiritism. I don’t care if “Salem witch trial type” pastors of the past decided to influence the naming of alcohol into “spirits” or whatever reason they are called that. I don’t care if your church bashed pot and tobacco because they wanted people to be sheep and not know what it’s like to calm the mind and dehipnotize it, because they knew they were liars and didn’t want to risk the power that those herbs give an individual. I don’t care how guilty you all will feel if one day you realize that all those people you judged were innocent of sin from the start. I don’t care about what you “think” you know or what you’ve convinced yourselves to believe about it. God only asks for moderation when it comes to such things, and that is based on the conscience the Holy Spirit trains in you.

I simply don’t care about the lies you all believe. Your definitions are warped. You’ve misplaced faith with blind trust. You are slaves to man made organizations and I’m sick of trying to get anywhere with many of you.

Some of you I was able to help, others are at the cusp of being awakened. But the majority of you are just like the people I left behind in my cult. I saw their personality and know they will never wake up, because I know that about them I know that about you. Your leaving God with no other choice but to slap you awake. Trust me, you don’t want that. You don’t know how thorough that slap is. It destroys a person and forces them to start building their faith from scratch. Many of you have been trained to sin without even knowing your sinning. Many of you bear false-witness to your own successes.

I’m not in the most pleasant mood right now. I need to speak to God about many things, my presence on this board being one of them. I’ll probably take a break from this board for a day or two, if I can manage not getting sucked back in. I’ll see what I can do. I still have some things I was planning to post, apocrypha texts. After that I don’t know.

If God is not blessing my efforts then it’s pointless for me to be here. I can’t succeed without God’s blessing. In order to help you all see the truth about the Bible I need God to enter your lives in an obvious way. If that’s not happening I have completed my task here, and I can move on to the next mission the Holy Spirit gives me, if I haven’t failed this one that is. We’ll see what happens

>>841191

Why are you addressing me about Faith Alone? My whole post was trying to get away from that, if only for practical reasons. Yet you replied like you never even read it.

And I never said anything about you or your sins. I don't know what you're talking about with everyone else. That was my first post in the thread. I'm not here to stalk everything you say with others. I'm not privy to any of it. Nor am I a representative of everyone either. Why did you decide to use my post as a springboard to start ranting about so many issues? You say God sent you on a mission here, but you can't even seem to stay focused.

>>841201

My mistake. If it helps that reply was not directed all at you. I misunderstood what you were trying to say, for some reason it triggered a rant. In fact very little of it was directed at you. You simply knocked and I burst the door open, so to speak. I need to take a break from this board. Till I fix a few things about my personality. Truly I’m sorry, I feel very embarrassed about the whole thing. I’ve been falling on my face a lot recently.

>>841193

Stop trying to lead people astray with acceptance of drugs (you know which ones I'm talking about so don't get flippant). Marijuana is a psychedelic, which are not of God, period. I've done them all, and was strongly rebuked by the Lord for doing so and pay the price to this day. Don't give me crap about spiritual experiences, you are being disingenuous if you don't acknowledge the prevailing theme amongst the psychedelic community being that we are all one (meaning we are God). That's as antichrist as it gets. Don't get me started on hard drugs, not that I should need to.

>>841207

That has not been my experience with drugs at all. Maybe having the Holy Spirit in you gives a person a whole different experience. Absolutely none of the people I’ve done them with have even came close to sounding like your description.

Maybe I should get into some details. I’m not talking about meth or unnatural drugs. You know what … forget it.

Lastly, one more thing, since one has to explain and clarify every detail on this board or people get the wrong idea…

>No Fornication (any sexual act before marriage, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, etc.)

>No idolatry (bowing to idols, using items in prayer, worshipping saints, worshipping other Gods, spiritism, blindly following anything but the Holy Spirit. One is only allowed to Follow the Holy Spirit “blindly”)

>Bloodshed (Murder, not self defense)

Some of these things can rid you of your salvation immediately.

There I think that’s all that’s left for me to clear up. Once again everyone I’m sorry for my rashness. Thank you for tolerating me these last two months. I will miss some of you. I don’t hate any of you. May Our Father in Heaven bless each and every one of you.

Goodbye

>>841208

Oh yeah? So you're saying that the holy spirit dwells within the very small percentage of Christians that think Marijuana is acceptable and not within the large majority that see it as unacceptable, despite the fact that the church fathers made it clear that the Holy Spirit doesn't work that way? I'm sure the demons in the drugs you take don't harass you as you seem very willing to do their bidding. Please go back to your gnostic larping on /x/ and good riddance to you.

Matthew 5:17-20 King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven .

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven .

>>840766

The thief on the cross had no good works at all and was still saved. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 also describes works being burnt up yet the builder saved, "as by fire".