6b4359 No.840127[Last 50 Posts]
Hello, my brothers.
I converted to Christianity as an adult 3 years ago and became interested in the Catholic faith shortly after. I went to a nondenom church for a while and it wasn't doing anything for me, so I attended what Masses I could in my area and they just seemed so much more reverent. Becoming Catholic was a no-brainer. Late last year I started up RCIA at a local parish and was Confirmed into the Church just recently on June 23rd (praise Jesus, and in the month of the Sacred Heart too). Originally I was going to be confirmed at Easter, but coronavirus.
I used to browse this board a few years back when I was still new to Christianity and had so many questions, now I'm proud to say I understand and embrace this faith. I'm happy to see 8ch back up and running, and this board with it. You guys are the best.
I'm saddened by how rare TLM is in my area (an SSPX church a few counties away and a Carmelite monastery off the interstate) so I'm usually at Novus Ordo Mass, but I have been to a few and loved it so much I wish I could attend it more.
I've also joined the Knights of Columbus and will be serving as a lector at my parish (again, serving Novus Ordo Mass, but it's something).
I'm looking for any outlet, online or in person, to pursue my faith and be a part of a Catholic community. What advice and resources can you offer to me here? I appreciate the love for true Catholicism on this board, it was influential in my own conversion. Thank you and God bless.
____________________________
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74e79e No.840135
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68b61f No.840137
>>840127
Please return to the true faith once your phase is over. Angels are praying for that day.
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cd5140 No.840143
>>840127
God bless anon! I cannot provide an answer to your question but I shall that God, His Angels and His Saints watch over and guide you.
>>840137
Why is it that you pen your analysis of scripture in to linguistics and philology?
History destroys your analysis, as early Christians, including the Apostles and their immediate students, wrote on the authority of Peter and of the Papacy prior to the collection of the books that comprise the Bible was established. And the collection of those books was established by the same group. So, if what your analysis said were true then we would have to accept that early Christians wrote and accepted the authority of Peter and of the Papacy; that early Christians, including the Apostles and their immediate students, established the collection of books that comprise the Bible; and that the Bible contradicts their position.
So, why is it that you pen your analysis of scripture in to linguistics and philology? It seems because history and reason contradict it, and thereby your heretical position.
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b684d9 No.840146
>>840127
That's terrific news, anon! Welcome home. I had my Confirmation in June 2019, and like you, I immediately noticed that the Mass has a reverence that non-denominational services lack. As I learned more about the traditions of the Church, it became clear to me what Catholics meant when they said they have the "fullness of faith".
>>840137
>David Stark
Who is he and why should I place his personal interpretations above that of the Church founded by Jesus Christ?
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49634b No.840149
>>840146
Because he's Iron Man.
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26226e No.840154
I would assume the basis of your conversion is the smells and bells like it is for >>840146 and not the weight of their arguments and message which are quite flimsy. Unfortunately, the idolatrous piety of Rome is known to have an immense pull on the unregenerate heart which cries out for talismans and idols. Even more unfortunately is it can have pull on regenerate hearts too sometimes, such is sin. I am quite sure if not for the naturally idolatrous state of fallen man the Roman church would have died out centuries ago. In any case OP I hope and pray you see the error of your ways soon and come back out of Babylon to find Christ. You certainly will not find Him inside.
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6b4359 No.840175
>>840154
>>840137
Imagine being so arrogant you use another's rejoicing over growing in their faith to condemn them for thinking differently from you.
Repent.
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5d4f79 No.840196
>>840154
>>840127
I am the same, too. This board was VITAL for me when I was troubled early last year. i was done with my bout with fascism(/pol/ can do that to you) and was in need of guidance, I was interested in it because of EMJ, but I am now convinced it is true. i have searched for the truth for much of my life, and when I least deserved it…He showed me. when I first attended a Mass (NO) I had the…WORST headache in YEARS. Something was trying to drive me out of there. Another event that stuck out was back in March of this year. I was at ceremony where I was to sign a book marking me becoming an elect. I was nervous because I was afraid I would make a mistake.
SOMETHING…or SOMEONE, guided my hand, and I wrote my signature So…BEAUTIFULLY, My mom actually thought I had practiced my handwriting. Even today, my signature is not really good. It has stuck with me since.
>>840146
ignore >>840154
He is a very, very salty Sam. Sola Scriptura makes no sense, because you cannot prove if a text is valid by the text itself. The koran, the book of Mormon all claim to be inspired, but they are not. The koran states that it is the Truth, and to deny it is to be an infidel. You cannot rely on sola scriptura, because you need
exterior proof for validity.
Show this to any Fundamentalists who try to tell you otherwise
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-quick-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura
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965fd0 No.840201
>>840196
>If anyone affirms sola scriptura just present them this strawman
Classic
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11cdfa No.840202
>>840201
Jesus says both "kill my enemies" and "love your enemies" in Luke. Scripture isn't always logically sound.
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965fd0 No.840204
>>840202
Do I need to repeat myself?
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26226e No.840209
>>840175
I'm not the one that will condemn you, Anon, He is the one you should be concerned about, because He most certainly will condemn you if you do not embrace the gospel of grace.
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cd5140 No.840213
>>840209
>>840201
Do you sincerely believe that the Bible, collated together by the Apostles and their students, is contrary to the position of those same Apostles and their students?
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965fd0 No.840215
>>840213
Do you really think this is an argument and not a fallacy?
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5d4f79 No.840216
>>840201
>Article refutes Protestantism
>Protestant calls it a strawman
Explain how it is a strawman, anon. Refute the points given in the article
Naturally, the Protestant rages when confronted with no argument. And to think I almost came Protestant, heh. It really is a false doctrine.
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965fd0 No.840217
>>840216
The title, every single point, and the content of your post are all strawmen
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965fd0 No.840218
>>840216
Clicked send
On the contrary, you should know what sola scriptura means before speaking down on me about it. Give us an accurate definition then compare it to what is said.
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5d4f79 No.840219
>>840217
Explain how they are strawman, I said. I am waiting for you to answer.
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cd5140 No.840220
>>840215
Doctrine is a functional concept; that is to say, we define 'doctrine' in terms of the purpose or function which doctrine is characteristically expected to serve. It follows that the concept of doctrine cannot be defined independently of the concept of good doctrine. And good doctrine affirms the belief of the people that produce it.
People produce doctrine that affirms their belief.
People of Belief A produced doctrine.
Therefore that doctrine must affirm Belief A.
Now, an argument is valid if and only if it is impossible for all of its premises to be true and the conclusion false. This can be checked by negating the conclusion, which then contradicts the premises. The above argument is therefore valid.
Now, an argument is sound if and only if it is valid and all of its premises are true. The argument is valid and all of its premises are true. The above argument is therefore sound.
Laus Deo.
>>840218
Sola scriptura is heresy, Protestant.
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965fd0 No.840221
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cd5140 No.840223
>>840221
Protestantism was a sponsored rebellion; Martin Luther, through Georg Burkhardt, was sponsored by Frederick III, Elector of Saxony, because Luther advocated for the secular right of kings; John Wycliffe was sponsored by John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster, because Wycliffe advocated for the secular right of kings; Jan Hus was sponsored by Zbyněk Zajíc of Hazmburk, military advisor to the Bohemian King Wenceslaus IV, because Hus advocated for the secular right of kings.
Protestantism was a collection of rebellious movements and those that gained traction did so only because they were of value to the people in power. For by weakening the Immaculate Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church, the One Church established by Jesus Christ, the secular powers were able to hedge and strengthen their own position. The authority of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church was not divided between Scripture and Tradition, nor was it dissolved into individuals, by Protestantism. Rather that authority to dictate Scripture and Tradition was assumed by the Kings and their Royal Courts.
This rebelliousness against God and reason has persisted into our chaotic age through the specious philosophies developed for this same purpose at those universities sponsored by those same secular powers.
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965fd0 No.840224
>>840223
Copy pasting a blurb on a different topic hurts your case dude
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5d4f79 No.840226
>>840224
He is right though. Protestantism is responsible for many of the ills of today. It has caused countless souls to stray from God and become damned. King Henry VIII perfectly encapsulates this. He ACTUALLY was a DEFENDER of the faith, and criticized Luther, UNTIL he went to have his marriage annulled and was refused. THEN he changed. When he died he left behind the bodies of a few ex wives sans heads. Protestantism really is a cancer on society.
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965fd0 No.840235
>>840226
Yes give me more talking points, that'll solve the doctrinal argument
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26226e No.840247
>>840213
No, I don't. What does that have to do with you? It contradicts you all day
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5d4f79 No.840265
>>840235
How are they talking points, explain? I asked you to refute them, but you have not. It seems you are moving the goalposts.
How do you respond to the circular error around Solo Scriptura? How do you prove if a text is inspired by the text itself? Muslims do that and it is not true.
Let's say I knew NOTHING about Islam or Christianity and were to choose between the two: WHY should I believe the bible over the Koran? Remember, you can ONLY use the bible to prove your case. the more I study the faith, the more I realize how fake Protestantism is. the fact it is so fragmented SHOWS it CANNOT be true. That leaves either Orthodox or Catholicism.
How can it be true, there are THOUSANDS of denominations. Either one is true and all others false, OR they are ALL false. Seeing as the Church has more substantiation to its claims, I am afraid to say I see Protestantism as little more than modern day Sadducee. Biblical literals, who twist the bible to mean what they want it to mean
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965fd0 No.840266
>>840265
Are you asking me what a talking point is?
>It seems you are moving the goalposts.
Excuse me?
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8b90d5 No.840267
I'm glad we're dealing with Sola Scriptural once and for all. Now a problem I see is, does the Bible have verses that support the existence of the Pope? Nope. Does it have verses supporting the veneration of the saints? Nope. Does it have verses supporting the veneration of body parts of saints? Again, no. Does it support repetitious actions to achieve salvation? No, of course not. Does it support the idea that Jesus' death was enough for salvation? Yes, but as we know due to tradition, not the words of Jesus, we need to work for our salvation.
All this is to say, if the Bible is right, then we know a group that exists in the line of the Pharisee is wrong.
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5d4f79 No.840268
Actually it does have a verse supporting the pope, in one of the books of kings. ( cannot remember which) One of the kings ( I believe it was King ahab), had appointed a head of his cabinet. He was NOT the ruler, but the head of the day to day workings of the cabinet., like a prime minister. That is the pope. If you look at the NT, you read of how people would throw themselves in front of St Pauls SHADOW, to be healed. it makes sense, when people are really holy, it seeps into their surroundings and leaves a mark, like radiation does. It can also be found in 2 kings 13:21, when the man touched the bones of elijah.
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5d4f79 No.840269
>>840266
HOW. IS. IT. A. TALKING. POINT?
I am asking you. What is wrong with what I posted? I keep asking but you keep dodging the question. It seems to me you are AFRAID to answer the question. >>840201 you called it a strawman. How? In what way? you have not explained to me
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965fd0 No.840270
>>840269
Talking points are when you have some predetermined items that you run through, especially when they're unrelated or just vaguely related to the topic. The argument was about sola scriptura, you're running down your list about Henry, Luther, reformation politics, the 30k denomination myth, etc
A strawman is when you prop up a weaker case than your opponent presents to mock defeat it. I shared a link just like you, you're free to engage it if you want.
Im happy to engage in a dialogue if you can demonstrate that you know what sola scriptura means and stay on topic.
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5d4f79 No.840276
So how has it turned out, sola scriptura. Fun fact. Since the 30's all protestant denomantions has to an extent supported contraceptives. Only one Church has held firm in saying no. The fact that it is so malleable to the world shows that it cannot be true. All Protestant churches are against the Catholic Church, but they have never agreed how. To me, it is dead fruit. The fact that Protestants refused to listen to the Church fathers, and other inportants figures shows, it was botched from the start. The fact they reject Mary for the most is also a red flag, to deny Mary is to deny Jesus's humanity
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4f88f7 No.840277
>>840276
How's denying communion to abortion supporters going? Our excommunicating active gays?
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4f88f7 No.840278
>>840276
Also look up what Jesus says about Mary and his brothers being outside.
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5d4f79 No.840283
>>840278
He had relatives but know brothers. This is proven by the fact that at the cross, Jesus told John the beloved aposte to take care of his mother, Which would have ONLY HAPPENED, if Jesus was only child because the SIBLINGS would have taken care of Mary…if he had siblings. There is can be further proven by Genesis 13:8 where Abraham is called brother in relation to Lot, EVEN THOUGH they were UNCLE and Nephew
Brother had a broader meaning back then near kin, anon.
As to the issues going on, see Our lady of Good success
>Widespread moral corruption
Profanation of the Sacrament of Matrimony
>Depraved priests who will scandalize the faithful and cause suffering for good priests
>Unbridled lust which will ensnare many souls
>Loss of innocence among children and loss of modesty among women
>Lack of priestly and religious vocations
The messages prophesy that the current period of catastrophe will be followed by a PERIOD OF RESTORATION. It does not matter what Protestants or Atheists try we will always make it through. The troubles will pass as they always do, and we will become EVEN STRONGER. : D
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6b4359 No.840289
>>840209
>Jesus will condemn you for being Catholic
ok heretic
>if you do not embrace the gospel of grace
What does this even mean? I believe in the Gospel. I believe in God's grace. I embrace both.
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26226e No.840290
>>840289
>What does this even mean?
You must give up hope on being righteous or holy. Stop trying to obey God's law, stop trying to make up for your sinfulness, and stop performing any acts of penance. You must not pretend to be anything more than an unworthy sinner, and then you must beg God for mercy like a slave. Never try to make up for your sins in His sight again, but let Christ alone do all the work. When the only thing keeping you out of the abyss is Christ, then you will know peace.
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5d4f79 No.840293
>>840289
I agree, the more I hear >>840290
talking the more convinced I am that I made right choice. He proves WHY i did not stick around and became Lutheran.
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5d4f79 No.840294
>>840289
>>840283
I have always gotten the warmest reception by Catholics. And usually when I am being attacked, it is by Protestants, who often are very rude. I remember on Cuckchan I was having a WONDERFUL conversation with other anons. There were a couple Orthodox anons too. We were talking about life. One anon had gotten married in the Netherlands in a Church. The parishioners there were excited that they would choose them, as it had been a long while since anyone had gotten married in the church. Another anon had
just baptized his newborn son. When all of a sudden.
>pagan
>You are going to hell
>Solo Scriptura is the truth
>Heretics
That is what turned me off from it. Except for some isolated cases I have NEVER met such nice people as I have found in Catholicism. Just thinking of how God brought me home after so long, warms my heart. I am home. : D
When I was struggling last year, an anon posted pic related, to cheer me up. Out of all the pics I have…THIS ONE…has a special place in my heart…because it shows that I can choose to not be hard . For too long my heart was hardened like a stone. The Catholic faith was the first one to make me question myself…to see me for myself… HOW MUCH….I had fallen.
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5d4f79 No.840295
>>840290
Peace? Anon, the Church has given me a peace that does not go away. I would NEVER…have gotten that in a Protestant church, because if I heard something I did not like, I would have gone to another Church… than another…than another. Unlike many I am WILLING to accept truths may pain me. I
was hesitant at first with fasting. NOW, I make it a habit to fast every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. It helps me with focusing on prayer.
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5d4f79 No.840296
>>840290
Peace? Anon, the Church has given me a peace that does not go away. I would NEVER…have gotten that in a Protestant church, because if I heard something I did not like, I would have gone to another Church… than another…than another. Unlike many I am WILLING to accept truths may pain me. I
was hesitant at first with fasting. NOW, I make it a habit to fast every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. It helps me with focusing on prayer.>>840294
>>840289
>>840289
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5d4f79 No.840297
oops I double posted. Forgot pic.
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419401 No.840300
>>840267
>>840270
Asking questions of Catholic doctrine is not a proof of, or justification for, sola scriptura.
This post >>840220 contradicts Protestant interpretation of Scripture.
This post >>840223 contradicts the positions of Protestantism, including sola scriptura.
No response to these arguments has been produced.
>>840277
Tu quoque.
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5d4f79 No.840302
>>840290
>Stop trying to obey God's law
>Stop trying to be Holy
> stop trying to turn away from sin
>Stop trying to make up for our sins
EXACTLY spoken like a pharisee or a satanist. I am now DEFINITELY convinced that Protestantism is false. Thank you for showing the errors of Protestantism
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f6f147 No.840304
>>840268
None of what you said supports a pope.
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5d4f79 No.840311
>>840304
How so, OR are you waving it off with your hand. I believe the latter. The Pope IS the Prime minister of the Church. Besides it makes PERFECT sense to have a Pope. It is like if America had no president. Only congress and the Supreme court. A corporation with no CEO. A head IS NEEDED to keep things from splitting apart or being discombobulated
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5d4f79 No.840314
>>840300
This. This. Solo Scriptura has been debunked..for now, until he next Protestant tries to act like they are right.
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965fd0 No.840322
>>840314
It hasn't even been defined, you've just been obsessive posting
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cd5140 No.840325
>>840314
Be broader brother. Our arguments dispense with the genus of Protestantism and thereby all its species.
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5d4f79 No.840349
>>840325
Agree, brother. The Church has seen FAR WORSE.We have been overun by mercenaries. WE have survived political intrigue. We survived Nazism and Communism. we will survive this. This will pass, as it always does. As for the Protestants… they will only get weaker…and…weaker, as they slowly splinter into countless sects, that grow more…and more… indifferent in faith
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965fd0 No.840361
>>840349
Protestants are both more numerous and more observant than Catholics
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5d4f79 No.840366
>>840361
It still does not change my point. We have seen far worse. we always bounce back. Ever heard of the COUNTER REFORMATION? We recovered and became greater. Protestants, by nature continue to fragment. The FACT that we are UNIFIED, as opposed to fragmentary, PROVES the errors of Protestantism. It does not matter if you out number us 10:1 WE ARE UNIFIED. YOU…ARE NOT. We have not
>approved abortion
>contraceptives
>LGBTQ
> ad nauseam.
Numbers ,mean little if your faith are weak, and your hearts are empty.. Orthodox, despite our disagreements have at LEAST had the common decency for the most part…NOT to submitted to the evils YOU have submitted.
https://www.advocate.com/religion/2020/6/26/catholic-archdiocese-tells-schools-reject-openly-trans-students
have Protestants, as a whole, united against error? I believe I know the answer.
Also
>numbers and more more observance being a value of righteousness.
Islam EXCEEDS what Protestants do, in regards to numbers and observance. Are they superior to us because of that No. The DOCTRINE is the key. What we have are a lot of Catholic and protestants who have NO IDEA what on earth they are doing. The doctrine of the Church has held steadfast DESPITE what has been going on. Can Protestants say the same? No…no they cannot, because Protestantism is a BREEDING ground for such errors
>Oh, Jesus did not really mean he would send you to hell for doing homosexual acts
>Oh, Jesus would not care if supported abortion.
That is WHAT PROTESTANTISM…has become. When I went to a Lutheran church as one interested, I could not help but notice how much leftwing politics had infiltrated it, how it was little more than a political voice pipe.
We have worms, God even said we would, but that does not change the fact that we are the Church of Christ and will be so to end of time. Outside the Church there IS. NO. SALVATION. Protestantism is like a bar, where people can believe what THEY WANT, and ignore what THEY do not like.
> Fasting? why would I do that?
> Chasity? Jesus would not care
>Penance? too hard!
>Mercy? what is that?
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965fd0 No.840367
>>840366
ok
Cool talking points
I'm still waiting if you want to talk about sola scriptura
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5d4f79 No.840369
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965fd0 No.840370
>>840369
No offense but is English a second language for you? It's like you don't understand what I'm saying.
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5d4f79 No.840371
>>840370
Yes. I understand. And i read the article, but how did it TURN out. The fact that Protestantism is so fragmented shows it cannot be true. All you can agree is " "we hate the Catholic Church" Without a central authority, it is bound to freagment. BEHOLD, JW's and Mormons
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965fd0 No.840372
>>840371
Ok I'm assuming you want to discuss it. Can you give me an accurate definition of sola scriptura, and stay only on that topic?
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5d4f79 No.840373
EVEN with with the church fathers, church councils, and the creeds and confessions of the church. it will still fall apart as it will if and when discourse sets in. If you look at the Church today, it has not fragmented into little bits, even with all the troubles going.on. It has NOT supported gay marriage, even while many Catholics disagree, the DOCTRINE does NOT CHANGE. Not so with Lutherans, Methodists and the like. ALL have faltered in doctrine to various extents. Even if they are more numerous and observant, it does not disprove the fact, that THEY are in ERROR.
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5d4f79 No.840374
Also if Luther was for listening toi Church fathers, WHY, did he change Romans 3:28 to mean you are saved by faith ALONE? Would the Church fathers agree with his changing of scripture? If the sacred scripture is authoritative, WHY change it? also, why remove Maccabees 1 &2 which prove the existence of purgatory.
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5d4f79 No.840375
What is the role of Charasmatic gifts in Protestantism?
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5d4f79 No.840376
What is the role of tradition as a guide to the meaning of scripture? Anabaptists held that tradition had zero authority. Luther held that tradition could be binding provided it did not contradict scripture; hence infant baptism was to be accepted because it was the unanimous tradition of the Church and did not contradict the biblical text.
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5d4f79 No.840377
>>840372
Is the Church infallible? Luther agreed that it was, but denied that this infallibility could be linked to the Catholic Church–other reformers denied that the Church was infallible at all.
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5d4f79 No.840379
Must Christian life and teaching be expressly taught in scripture or is it sufficient that the Church's life and teaching merely does not contradict scripture? The Reformers never resolved this issue–an issue with massive and schismatic consequences for liturgy, which the scriptures never discuss in much detail.
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5d4f79 No.840380
>>840372
>The key component in this trifold authority was the Magisterium itself, which is the authoritative teaching office of the Roman Catholic Church
No, it is not "key" in the sense that it is above Scripture or the Apostolic Tradition (oral and demonstrated teachings)
>Instead, God’s people have universally affirmed that there is only one thing that can legitimately function as the supreme standard: God’s Word. There can be no higher authority than God Himself.
This is contradictory. It says there can be no higher authority than God Himself, which is true, but then goes on to say that God's word is the "supreme" standard. So which is it: God, or the Scripture? Both can not be supreme/higher at the same time.
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5d4f79 No.840381
>they argued that we should no longer expect ongoing revelation now that God has spoken finally in His Son (v. 2)
And the Apostolic Tradition is what has been passed down through Him and His Apostles. They are not additions to anything that came after the Biblical Age.
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965fd0 No.840384
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5d4f79 No.840388
>>840384
I just SHOWED how it is wrong. Yet you say I made NO argument? Naturally
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5d4f79 No.840390
>>840384
>>840384
Even the more "reserved" manner to sola Scriptura advocated in this article still seems to lead to this. Going back to the Luther quote from earlier in the article, he demanded to be convinced by Scripture or clear reason. However, if you are judging all traditions by Scripture, which by nature means judging based on your interpretation of Scripture, then it still leaves open the fact that you're accepting or rejecting traditions based on your interpretation of Scripture. That is, essentially, what the "me and my Bible" crowd are doing. They just don't act like they're doing anything else than judging others' teachings by what they see in Scripture. If anything, they're just being as brutally honest as Luther was.
Even the more "reserved" manner to sola Scriptura advocated in this article still seems to lead to this. Going back to the Luther quote from earlier in the article, he demanded to be convinced by Scripture or clear reason. However, if you are judging all traditions by Scripture, which by nature means judging based on your interpretation of Scripture, then it still leaves open the fact that you're accepting or rejecting traditions based on your interpretation of Scripture. That is, essentially, what the "me and my Bible" crowd are doing. They just don't act like they're doing anything else than judging others' teachings by what they see in Scripture. If anything, they're just being as brutally honest as Luther was.
Many Lutherans and Presbyterians claim to be totally submissive to their church because their church allegedly gets all doctrine right. That seems like a very Catholic attitude, until you press the issue: How do you know that? They can't look to history, as Catholics do. They can't look to visible Apostolic Succession, as Catholics do. They can only arrive to that conclusion if they have first analyzed every teaching by Scripture for themselves and concluded it to be, by their own interpretation, right. The alternative is that they really are just going in with totally blind faith, basically doing what early Protestants like Calvin mocked Catholics for doing. Of course, we have those historical and Apostolic witnesses, so Calvin's mockery holds considerably less weight for us.
You have not answered my question. How is anything I have posted a talking point
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