e831f5 No.839932
Despite attempts by Catholic theologians to differentiate between worship reserved to God, known as latria, the general veneration of saints, called dulia, and the special veneration for mary, known as hyperdulia, there are no such distinctions in the devotional life of practicing Catholics. They do not change their mental attitude when they pass from Pater Noster to Ave Maria. A prayer is a prayer, whether addressed to the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, Mary, or the saints. Catholic devotees, in their own adoration of Mary, hardly distinguish between adoration and veneration. Take, for example, the popular book Novena Prayers in Honor of Our Mother of Perpetual help, published with the official Catholic imprimatur. One of the prayers says:
>We have no other greater help,
>No greater hope than you,
>Ó Most pure Virgin; help us then,
>Because we trust you, we glory in you.
>We are your servants.
>Don't let us down.
In the same devotional book there are similar prayers, which describe the power of Mary as superior to that of Jesus. This is one of them: 'Come to my aid, dearest Mother, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands I place my eternal salvation, and to thee I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me. For, if thou protect me, dear Mother, I fear nothing: not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; not even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee, He will be appeased".
The idea that a prayer for Mary has the magical power to appease Jesus makes Mary a wonder-worker and denigrates Jesus as a punitive judge whose wrath needs to be appeased by His compassionate hand. These teachings are blasphemous, to say the least.
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e831f5 No.839933
>>839932
We find other blatant examples of the adoration of Mary in Afonso de Liguori's famous book (1696-1787), The Glories of Mary (1750 AD), published in over 800 editions with official Catholic approval (imprimatur). Liguori was canonized as a saint in 1831 by Pope Gregory XVI. The massive circulation of his book in 72 languages played a major role in promoting absurd things about Mary. A few examples are enough to show the book's extravagant claims:
>"Should we have scruples to beg her to save us when the 'way of salvation is open to no one but through Mary'?"
>"Many things are asked of God, but not granted. May they be asked of Mary, and we shall obtain them".
>"Under Mary's command, all obey, even God himself."
It makes any Christian familiar with the biblical concept of salvation and God's character to hear that the way of salvation is open only through Mary, who has the ability to manipulate God into doing her will. The way of salvation is opened not through Mary, but through Christ alone: "There is no salvation in any other; for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). It is absurd to assume that the Creator God is obliged to receive orders from a human creature.
The sampling of the above statements is sufficient to demonstrate that the theoretical distinction between worship of God and veneration of Mary is almost non-existent in the practical experience of devout Catholics. This is due in part to the fact that some of the prayers addressed to Mary exalt her above God. The end result is that millions of sincere Catholics today worship a divinity fabricated by their church rather than the God of biblical revelation.
The church promotes the worship of Mary throughout the year, primarily through what is known as the Feast of Mary. The Catholic liturgical calendar reveals that the principal facts and fictions of Mary's life are celebrated on no less than 35 Marian feasts. Some of the annual feasts such as the Annunciation, the Immaculate Conception, the Purification and the Assumption into Heaven are the correlative of the festivities alluding to the birth, resurrection and ascension of Christ. The aim is to establish a clear parallel between Mary and Christ, which ultimately leads Catholic devotees to worship Mary as a kind of demigoddess.
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f0d802 No.839934
It's only a problem when you put Mary as greater than or equal to Jesus, just like you should never put Wisdom above Logos. See what happened to Solomon.
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c466f1 No.839936
>>839934
There's idolatry below that point
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7cee91 No.839979
The Annunciation is about the conception of Christ, though.
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e831f5 No.839984
>>839933
>Tl;Dr: Catholics worship Mary, despite what they say.
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67b327 No.839988
Excellent posts brother, hopefully it will move some of them to repentance
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c523d2 No.839990
>>839933
>Quoting faulty archeology from The 2 Babylons and co
Every time.
>>839934
>just like you should never put Wisdom above Logos.
EMJ fanboy, please go.
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e831f5 No.839992
>>839990
>Quoting faulty archeology from The 2 Babylons and co
Pic no related.
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e831f5 No.839993
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123111 No.840011
>>839933
nice posts. not just bait threads to harass catholics but actual information and research presented to attempt to reason with catholics. Good work.
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e831f5 No.840085
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d913f9 No.840112
>; not even from Jesus, my judge, because by one prayer from thee, He will be appeased"
There was no wine, Jesus didnt care, Mary asks, voila there is wine.
She has no power of her own, simply, whatever she requests of God is granted so its in your best interest to pray for her intercession.
The prayers of the holy/just are 'powerful' and efficacious tells the bible, well here we have the creature with the most efficacious prayers that ever existed.
Its such a grace from God, that intercessional prayer is available.
It starts early in genesis when God tells Abraham to pray for that dude that wanted to steal his wife, to note that He didnt tell the dude to pray for his own soul, He tells Abraham. Abraham's prayers appease Him, the sinners' dont. This doesnt mean Abraham has more power than God.
In the same way, Mary's prayers appease Him, ours not so much.
God's mercy works through intercession prayer. Its not a competition with God or circumventing, its God allowing His unfathomable mercy to be applied through this medium.
Having humans pray for each other make Him happy, specially the holy ones. And through this way His mercy reaches all, even those who deserve only justice.
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e831f5 No.840117
>>840112
>There was no wine, Jesus didnt care, Mary asks, voila there is wine.
This literally proves nothing, because Jesus always answered requests for miracles, even if they were not asked. The fact that someone had faith that Jesus could solve a problem was enough for Jesus to solve it.
>The prayers of the holy/just are 'powerful' and efficacious tells the bible
>It starts early in genesis when God tells Abraham to pray for that dude that wanted to steal his wife
You mean the Genesis 20 story? This doesn't prove the "power" of the saints' prayer. Nowhere does it say that Abraham's prayer would be more effective than man's, nor does it even say whether Abraham's would be answered in the first place. On the other hand, God hears the prayer of the man when he swears to be innocent, and instructs him what he should do so as not to die.
If the prayer of the saints were truly powerful, the apostles would ask other apostles for prayer and not the readers of the churches to which the letters were addressed. Moreover, we do not see any apostle asking Mary for prayers anywhere.
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e831f5 No.840118
>>840117
Also, even if the prayers of the saints truly are more powerfull (because I am aware that the prayer of those who have faith can move mountains), there is nothing to indicate that Mary's prayer would be superior to that of other saints.
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7cee91 No.840148
>>840118
What do you understand by more powerful or superior? Are you sure this makes sense?
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e831f5 No.840156
>>840148
>The prayers of the holy/just are 'powerful' and efficacious tells the bible, well here we have the creature with the most efficacious prayers that ever existed.
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7cee91 No.840160
>>840156
To whom does prayer primordially affect?
God, the person who prays, or the person prayed unto?
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fccb8e No.840165
>>840160
>To whom does prayer primordially affect?
My little sister's satanic rabbit. Every time something holy happens that little devil gets angry and throws a hissy fit.
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f68bb6 No.840167
>>840165
How has your cat not eaten your rabbit yet? Is it scared of your rabbit?
Btw how does one sage a post? I’m probably gonna be arguing in the d— sucking thread and I don’t want it staying on the surface.
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7891c3 No.840168
>>840167
>arguing
lol, you think too much of yourself newfag. I stated a thought, you gave a thought back. Both thoughts were stated, either can choose to agree or disagree. There is no necessity to have endless discussion.
As for how to sage, sage goes in the e-mail field.
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f68bb6 No.840169
>>840168
Lol. You’ve misunderstood my intentions a bit and I yours, but thanks for telling me how to sage.
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32e2c4 No.840170
>>840169
Since you conceded to misunderstanding, I'll state, should my words have come off as too strong, I apologize.
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f68bb6 No.840171
>>840170
Don’t worry about it brother. That thread had me laughing the whole time anyway. At least we got to know each other a little better from it. Lol.
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e831f5 No.840178
>>840160
Depends on the prayer, I think.
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