16056f No.839835
When it comes to music, film, literature, etc. that is secular in nature, do you avoid it all? If not, how do you discern what is acceptable?
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16056f No.839836
>>839835
More background info/thoughts behind my question, if you’re interested:
I’ve lately been wrestling with the idea of removing certain songs/albums/artists from my library and never listening to them again, because they contain cursing or they’re lyrically nihilistic/hedonistic or the band/artist’s image is reflective of poor values or whatever other reasons.
I’ve also begun to get into film lately, but I’m now also concerned with what films I should allow myself to watch. Should we Christians really be watching horror films or looking at films with cursing and violence or whatever else?
This all stems from further investment into my Christian faith and also coming to a certain set of conclusions. I’m a musician and I’ve grown up loving music, playing instruments, and so on. I’ve started agreeing with the idea that all music is inherently rather spiritual or in other words, that there’s a “spiritual essence” of sorts behind all music that ultimately derives from the creator(s). For instance, modern day avant-garde music seems to nearly always possess a nihilistic spirit - one of disorder, dissonance, absurdity, etc. I’ve been thinking about lately how, as Christians, we should value order, harmony, and hope/meaning in art instead, which would properly glorify God and reflect Him.
Nonetheless, it still feels difficult to discern what is “acceptable” when it comes to music, movies, and so on. I also can’t deny that it can be hard to let go of music, film, books, etc. that you’ve grown up with or that you have a unique ”relationship” with. Some of my favorite albums seem questionable to me nowadays and I can’t deny that it would hard to let go of them if necessary.
So yeah, just wondering what you guys think. I’m aware of passages such as Philippians 4:8. Still not sure whether I should just abandon all secular media or simply be careful. I’m an inquirer into Orthodox Christianity by the way, but I’m open to any Christian’s thoughts. This seems to be an issue that’s not exactly specific to any specific church or denomination. It’s something all of us need to think about. For now, I’m leaning towards simply removing whatever media rubs me the wrong way or seems to be in a “grey” area, just to be safe, rather than holding to some attitude of seeing how much I can get away with, ya know? I’m not totally sure though. Perhaps I’m being too legalistic or something.
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4030f1 No.839837
Because of my passion for Japanese language, I immerse into a ton of secular media every single day.
It really depends what you're consuming. Personally I don't even like music with lyrics that much. And the few songs with lyrics I listen to are mostly fine. If they're not I do indeed tend to avoid them. But I won't go so far as to "cancel" the artist altogether in my mind.
Most of the Japanese media I immerse into are actually books. There is nothing wrong with non-Christian literature as long as it's not explicitly satanic or against God or the Gospel.
>Should we Christians really be watching horror films or looking at films with cursing and violence or whatever else?
It really depends on the core message of the movie. Watching violent or creepy stuff is not sinful in of itself. So if you manage to take away something positive from the movie, instead of being inflicted with paralyzing fear or feelings of violence/ dark thoughts, then it's good imo.
>modern day avant-garde music seems to nearly always possess a nihilistic spirit - one of disorder, dissonance, absurdity, etc
I listen to a lot of Post-Rock, Math Rock, Jazz and things like that I understand what you mean by music being oddly spiritual and stuff. Imo there is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying something deep about suffering, evilness or whatever other topic you might think as "taboo" as long as it doesn't explicitly promote it or renounces God or the Gospel.
Suffering and evilness are a huge part of our life and strongly related to our nature as fallen beings and even related to salvation. It may even help you understand why we need salvation.
I don't want to seem like I'm saying "you should read/ listen to/ watch vile stuff". I'm just saying you shouldn't be very scared about it. If you feel that something is messing with your faith, by all means stop it immediately.
To give some proper (somewhat well-known) examples:
>I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with Harry Potter. However, it does have it's good parts regarding good's triumph against evil; the struggle with sin etc. I believe it's up the each person to interpret it. Personally I like to stay away from it
>Pop love songs: a lot of them are hypersexualized and promote a very sick, twisted, materialistic, nihilistic view on love.
>messed up psychological anime like Neon Genesis Evangelion: it strongly depends on the person and how prone they are to 7th grader syndrome. Overall these kind of dark shows bring my mind closer to God, because they fully acknowledge the suffering and evilness and do not try to mask it as something good. I think that this is basically the golden rule I go by now that I think about it.
>normal non-sexually-focused drama, comedy and romance media (books, movies, anime, manga, even music) are perfectly acceptable imo. (I can only think about Japanese stuff that I currently watched or read) and as long as they are not explicitly against Christianity or promoting sin, I think there's nothing wrong with them.
My thoughts may or may not reflect those of the Orthodox Church, even though I am Orthodox. But I think they do… I haven't looked into it.
Common sense dictates what I just said imo
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4030f1 No.839838
>>839837
I just noticed many spelling mistakes. Sorry I just woke up and I'm an ESL
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e27bf8 No.839839
>>839837
This anon explained it quite well OP.
Also there are forms of entertainment out there that your mind will take in a very clean way, until you look at the music video. I’ve found it very helpful to stay away from the music videos, so they don’t influence what I’m hearing. Songs that I considered to be very good others take as freedom from self control. Music and entertainment can be taken in a clean way or a corrupt way. It all depends on the person.
Even violent movies, some people see completion of justice, others watch it for senseless violence. All of these things can be digested properly, some entertainment out there can not be digested well at all. For example, and I mentioned this show yesterday as well, Game of Thrones. There was no personality of God properly evident in that show. There is no hero to root for. No holy lesson that can be learned, it’s nauseating. I think that’s one thing I’ve learned so far, about how entertainment feels when it’s truly pointless. Much of the music you love, you love for a reason. As your personality gets closer to God’s in your spiritual journey you can just rely on your senses. If something disgusts you then it’s easy to stay away from.
There is sometimes that song or movie that’s right down the middle between bad and good. Those are the ones I have issues with. A song with an amazing tune but bad lyrics, a movie with justice being carried out but a lot of evil along the way. These are the hard ones for me. Something just doesn't feel right but at the same time something tells me I’m overthinking it. These questionable ones are very few, and in some rare occasions I’m later able to see it more clearly as something ok or something not.
There’s a lot of music I’ve deleted in my journey, only to go back and download them again because it was much later I understood how to keep a good balance. Ultimately it’s about how you digest it.
There are even bible movies and shows I stay away from, not because they cross the line in any way, only because my brain tends to substitute the movie quotes and scenes into the part of my brain that holds bible scripture and philosophy. I find myself quoting things from a movie thinking I’m remembering it from the Bible. Bible shows and movies are by far what I consider the trickiest. But that can be recalibrated by just reading the accounts in the Bible over again, which is not as easy as I though since some details of particular accounts are referenced in several places of the Bible. Just though I’de mention this as well. I hope I didn’t give you something new to worry about.
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16056f No.839840
>>839837
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, anon. Your English seems pretty solid, so no worries! I enjoy most styles of rock music, so Post-Rock and Math Rock would be among them as well. Two of my favorite rock albums are of those genres (Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven by Godspeed You! Black Emperor, and Yank Crime by Drive Like Jehu, though the latter is more Post-Hardcore than Math Rock). When it comes to literature, even though I’m interested in fiction, I currently pretty much only read non-fiction specifically philosophical books and Christian writings such as patristics, and even then, I don’t read much still. I agree with avoiding anything outright satanic or anti-Christian. I like metal music, but I have to be careful about blasphemous lyrics at times, especially since I tend to enjoy extreme metal like Death Metal or Black Metal. (I have to be really careful about Black Metal.) I totally understand what you’re saying in regard to music that deals with suffering and dark subjects. I’m not exactly a troubled or sad person, but my favorite music and art in general does tend to be quite bittersweet and have some element of “darkness”. I totally agree with you on modern pop songs and Harry Potter. I don’t really like most modern top 40-tier pop songs, purely musically-speaking, in the first place anyways, and I never got into Harry Potter though I did watch one of the movies when I was younger, but I was more so enamored with Emma Watson on the big screen than anything else like the story and effects and what not lol.
When it comes to anime, I haven’t watched much, but it does get annoying when shows include fan service. One big example of this for me is Kill la Kill. I had really no idea what to expect from the show, but I decided to watch it and oh man, they lewd Ryuko Matoi so much that I have to turn away at times and fight lustful thoughts. I didn’t realize until afterwards that an anime show such as that one gets thrown the “Ecchi” label, which at the time, I had no clue what that was. I try to watch more so “wholesome” shows now, so I’ve been getting into Aria and Non Non Biyori. I still haven’t watched NGE. I hear nothing but praise for it especially on the chans of course. I’ve only seen the first episode, but I do plan on watching the whole show. I always read anons mentioning that there’s Christian symbolism throughout NGE, but I’m not sure.
I suppose the hardest aspect of this all is knowing if the media you’re consuming is glorifying/promoting sin or if it’s simply part of the story, characters, etc. I don’t believe I really struggle with media “influencing” me outside of artistic influence. But, as I said before, I believe all music (and art in general) is spiritual even if it’s secular. Sure, the art itself doesn’t possess its own soul, but the creator(s) of it do. A creator with a depraved spirit will lead to his creation reflecting depravity, in some way. So, even if I don’t allow secular media to influence me to commit sinful actions, I still have this concern that perhaps the art and entertainment I consume can have some negative spiritual influence on me without me being fully aware of it.
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4030f1 No.839842
>>839840
>Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven by Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Absolutely based
It's my favorite album of all time. I don't think it's inherently satanic or wrong to listen to it. It doesn't promote anything concrete either way. I like to think that there is a meaning to each song or movement, but it's not in any form satanic propaganda or anything.
I think it's beautiful to be able to express all kinds of emotions, including very dark ones through art.
There's nothing wrong with it. If you compare it to the shallowness of sexualized modern pop music, post-rock doesn't have anything concretely bad about it.
>Black Metal
As long as I see pentagrams, reverse crosses, explicitly anti-Christian messages, I will not listen to it.
I dabbled in some Christian black metal before… I'm not really into the genre as a whole, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it.
I can see some Orthodox priests disagreeing with most of my opinions, but I believe they are also party because of lack of exposure to them.
They may deem un-black metal even more satanic than modern pop music, despite the complete difference of message in the music; which I think it's simply due to lack of exposure.
I'm not trying to deny the authenticity of priestly teachings or anything, or call them outright wrong, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Since we're not monks, we live in this world. Our main focus in life should be Christ and there is no debate in that regard. But being in the world means interacting with it. And art is everywhere and in everything.
Indeed monks only experience Christian art. But that doesn't mean that we should ONLY experience it too.
It's a great thing to be a monk, but not everybody can be.
>anime
There are soooo many good shows that promote good morals and coping with suffering. My favorite anime ever is "March comes in like a lion". It's main focus is pretty empathy, which I think is a major Christian virtue.
>Christian symbolism throughout NGE
It's pretty much used for the "cool" factor and the director is not a Christian and the story only kinda relates to Christianity in the sense that it deals with existentialism.
Ironically enough, NGE is one of the first things that made me seriously think about reason of existence and God.
One more thing I'd like to mention about disorder, dissonance and absurdity, is that I don't believe they're necessarily anti-Christian. Existence, and God Himself is a very natural yet absurd concept for a limited human being to comprehend.
Angels are said to look more like pic related, which is the way of depicting angels for some media that people would deem as satanic such as the Shin Megami Tensei games; rather than looking like children in white robes with a halo over their head.
Don't they look completely absurd to us?
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4030f1 No.839844
>>839839
Couldn't agree with you more regarding Game of Thrones.
I also sometimes struggle with songs and stuff that is right down the middle. There's a song I used to like that has a very "peaceful" aspect to it in the sense that we should embrace our differences and stuff , which is not always something bad. But I'm very certain I can assume it was written with gayness in mind.
I think they know what they're doing about all of these evil things masquerading as wonderful, peaceful etc. It's just a way of them trying to deceive us. I think that very strong faith in God will not be affected by their pathetic attempts to deceive us with their propaganda.
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e27bf8 No.839845
>>839844
I have yet to come across propaganda that went unnoticed by me. Once your awake to it you catch it immediately.
You reminded me of a love song that I use to listen to. Then later I found out it was a male singing it to another male. I was red faced. The words were set in a way that if your heterosexual you can sing it just fine. There was no reason to think it was gay at all. The only thing that made it gay was the music video. But I was the only one around me who hadn’t seen the music video. It’s funny to me now, but damn. If you don’t watch the music video you embarrass yourself, if you watch it the song is ruined, catch 22.
I’m glad I was able to hold on to the milder heavy metal songs I have. Some of them can be rebellious, but you can direct that rebellion to the satanic system using your mind. I’m sure they’re kicking themselves in the faces for that.
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1f83ba No.839854
>Ephesians 5:1-7
Be ye therefore followers of God, as most dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath delivered himself for us, an oblation and a sacrifice to God for an odour of sweetness. But fornication [Πορνεία, Porneia], and all uncleanness [ἀκαθαρσία, akatharsia], or covetousness [πλεονεξία, pleonexia], let it not so much as be named among you, as becometh saints: Or obscenity [αἰσχρότης, aischrotēs], or foolish talking [μωρολογία, mōrologia], or scurrility [εὐτραπελία, eutrapelia], which is to no purpose; but rather giving of thanks. For know you this and understand, that no fornicator, or unclean, or covetous person (which is a serving of idols), hath inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. Be ye not therefore partakers with them.
Per Saint John Chrysostom:
Let there not be one idle word; for from idle words we fall also into foul words. The present is no season of loose merriment, but of mourning, of tribulation, and lamentation: and do you play the jester? What wrestler on entering the ring neglects the struggle with his adversary, and utters witticisms? The devil stands hard at hand, roaring like a lion (1 Peter 5:8).
Are you amusing and enjoying yourself, and uttering witticisms and raising a laugh, and regarding the matter as a mere nothing? How many perjuries, how many injuries, how many filthy speeches have arisen from witticisms! "But no," you will say, "pleasantries are not like this." Yet hear how Saint Paul excludes all kinds of jesting. It is a time now of war and fighting, of watch and guard, of arming and arraying ourselves. The time of laughter can have no place here; for that is of the world.
Hear what Christ says: "The world shall rejoice, but you shall be sorrowful." (John 16:20). Christ was crucified for your ills, and do you laugh? He was buffeted, and endured so great sufferings because of your calamity, and the tempest that had overtaken you; and do you play the reveler? And how will you not then rather provoke Him?
For indeed this is a work of the devil, to make us disregard things indifferent. First of all then, even if it were indifferent, not even in that case were it right to disregard it, when one knows that the greatest evils are both produced and increased by it, and that it oftentimes terminates in fornication. The man then who deals in jests is no saint. Nay, were he even a Greek, such an one would be scorned. These are things allowed to those only who are on the stage. Where filthiness is, there also is jesting; where unseasonable laughter is, there also is jesting. Jesting renders the soul soft and indolent. It excites the soul unduly, and often it teems with acts of violence, and creates wars. But what more? In fine, have you not come to be among men? Then "put away childish things." (1 Corinthians 13:11).
If the thing is creditable, why is it left to mountebanks? Do you make yourself a mountebank, and are not ashamed? Look at your merriment-makers, those buffoons. Those are your mountebanks, peddling their gratifying deceptions. Theirs is an enormity of baseness and the emptiness of all reverence.
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6f9ce8 No.839882
>>839835
I barely consume any mainstream art or entertainment. Nearly everything is pozzed. I only watch the news each day to see what propaganda normies are being fed. Just doing that removes half of the problem.
It's impossible to avoid what pollutes our world though, simply going outside the degeneration is visible everywhere: badly designed infrastructure and buildings, rude or aggressive people, gaudy advertisements, etc. And that's just what's visible, behind it all is mass death, usury, and despair.
Most of my entertainment is from jewtube, and I simply watch stuff that is less corrupted than mainstream content. I enjoy carpentry, tourism, and ancient history channels.
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ace36b No.839904
I don't know, I lost my interest for them naturally. It has been three years since I've played any games.
I think you will lose interest if you keep on with Christ.
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e27bf8 No.839914
>>839904
Have you tried Fortnite’s creative mode yet. It’s 10% game and 90% architecture. I’ve never seen anything like it, but then again I’ve never been a hardcore gamer.
I lost most of my interest in gaming almost a year ago. It just went out the window when I lost the need to keep myself distracted from troubles. Strangely I learn a lot of spiritual lessons when I build in it but I don’t want to get into that. I never liked the game itself because I find first person shooters pointless. But the creative mode is an insane architectural tool. It seems silly to say but I wouldn’t call the creative mode a game. It’s becoming a legitimate tool for beginner’s architecture and planning. You get some sort of education out of it. Literally there is nothing stopping a person from building something in the game in order to know what they want to build in real life (except money), and they are updating building materials from time to time. It’s actually very fulfilling to see what one is capable of building if money wasn’t an issue. I can go on for hours. The games free and if you don’t find it interesting then you’ve truly moved on.
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71d522 No.839921
>>839835
I've been having issues with this too. In my past life I used to listen to black metal a lot, and now that has started to feel wrong because of the lyrics, so I don't listen to black metal anymore. On the other hand, I was listening to this band CMX (well-known in Finland) in the background during my process of being convinced of the truth of Christianity, so I think CMX must be okay to listen to despite potential theological issues with the lyrics, which is good for me because CMX is probably my favorite band. I was listening to the album Mesmeria at the time of my conversion and some of the songs there sounded almost like Christian music from a point of view and spoke to me. It helps that CMX has mature lyrics in the multilayered literate grown-up sense.
Then there are a lot of bands where not listening to them ever again is not a big loss solely from musical quality point of view, but some stuff I have personally liked a lot is in the dodgy zone, and that's a big problem I haven't solved. I'm also worried that some of the worse CDs may be bad to even keep at home, but thus far I have done nothing about it.
Books are in a weird spot where I'm not sure how much is mental maturation of the ordinary sort and how much is Christianity, but I have noticed my tastes have changed significantly during a period I didn't read much and now I'm not sure what my tastes are. For example, Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny, which used to be in my top 5 of books in my twenties and read by me multiple times, suddenly felt shallow and morally deficient on a reread.
Anime has been a source of good entertainment with proper values, though picking the right anime is important. I watched Kaguya-sama last and enjoyed it.
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4f903e No.839950
I only watch the community and black mirror, if there is anything i don't like then i don't watch it, like crude jokes against God, or shaming people who love God. I try to watch movies i watched when i was young, and if you watch old Disney movies frame by frame you see subliminal messages. That said not all movies have subliminal messages, but it's important to examine the media your consume and to not repeat it's viewing.
All music must be instrumental, or else you're blasting the same message in your brain over and over again like brainwashing.
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e27bf8 No.839954
>>839950
>and if you watch old Disney movies frame by frame you see subliminal messages.
I’ve done this. LOL. Every time I couldn’t believe what I was watching. It wasn’t really super evil but it opened my eyes to a lot of things I was exposed to as a child.
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003660 No.839981
>>839835
I don't avoid it all.
If music has cursing in it, I won't listen to it. If possible, I may seek out a clean version of the song on YouTube although I know that listening to particular music, even if clean, can still influence me and keep me from attaining perfection. Nonetheless, it's not sinful so it's okay enough for now. I'll worry about the finer details later.
If the media I'm consuming is something I find sexually enticing or I deem it to be unnecessarily sexual (nudity, in an of itself is not a problem) then I may dismiss it on those grounds as well. I will also dismiss media that uses the Lord's name irreverently as well.
Other than that, I basically consume just about any media.
These are Fr. Ripperger's talks on movies (~8min lecture) and music (~40min lecture + some Q&A). I think they're pretty informative.
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=vn-GNljbNs0
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=EhXlILfOYh4
I can understand his rejection of Rock but his rejection of Jazz really hurt me as I was looking forward to playing Jazz if I ever became skilled as a pianist.
Also, as another poster brought up Harry Potter, I just want to say that you should avoid Harry Potter. Actual occult techniques were used in its composition and I do believe it contains actual spells which is completely unlike the magic found in the TLOR series which I believe is just element manipulation.
>>839854
I believe St. Thomas Aquinas stated that there must be a time for fun. Since St. Aquinas' teachings appear after those of St. John by about 8 centuries and since the Church has only grown in its understanding of Scripture since its foundation, I believe we should follow Aquinas on this question on whether it's acceptable for us followers of Christ to have a time for leisure and play.
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2279cb No.840115
>>839954
supposedly subliminal messages are in a lot of mass media, pretty spooky.
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1f83ba No.840119
>>839981
St. Thomas Aquinas inherited his thinking of eutrapelia from Aristotle (Ethic. iv, 6-8). Now, Saint Aquinas writes that play goes beyond the rule of reason by its species - being discourteous, insolent, scandalous, or obscene - or by its excess at time or place. But, he also writes that it is against reason for a man to be burdensome to others by offering no pleasure or by hindering their enjoyment (Second Part of the Second Part, Q. 163, A. 3-4).
Excess play is a mortal sin if a man prefers its pleasure to the love of God, so as to be willing to disobey a commandment of God or of the Church; it is a venial sin if a man is not willing to disobey a commandment of God or of the Church. Lack of play is, and can only be, a venial sin, as play is, not for its own sake, but for the sake of operation.
The vast majority of entertainment is therefore sinful by its species, and mortally sinful as it disobeys the commandments of God and of the Church. And to partake in such entertainment is against the commandment of God and of the Church, and is therefore itself mortally sinful.
It as well bears the danger of falling into the discourtesies, the insolences, the scandals, and the obscenities that such entertainment depicts. For men imitate. Hence, Jesus said to his disciples: "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24)
Play classical instead.
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e27bf8 No.840120
>>840115
I keep feeling the burn for not saving videos and photos on everything I’ve learned in the passed 10 years. I stopped collecting after a hard drive crash. So many things I can no longer find within 30 min. It hurts.
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526246 No.840467
>>839835
>When it comes to music, film, literature, etc. that is secular in nature, do you avoid it all? If not, how do you discern what is acceptable?
When I first came to Christ, it seemed obvious that I should avoid it.
"Seemed" being an understatement. More like a strong compulsion from rebirth in the Holy Spirit. Part of my whole new lease on life. I found myself throwing out all of my music and even saw some sports in a new light and avoided those too.
…Yet it wasn't long until I felt isolated. Not just by social circles, but the world at large. I felt like I couldn't relate to anything and then became self-conscious about it. Even my parents thought I was being crazy. It finally weighed on me and then slowly over the years, I tried to "step one foot in the water" of the world again, just to keep up appearances at the very least. Yet it wasn't long until I was somewhat back into old habits, trying to straddle between the "good sides" of popular culture and just avoiding the overtly perverse, and trying to convince myself that half of it was salvageable.
But I've recently come to my original opinion. It's best to avoid it all (not to say all of it is bad, but it is overwhelmingly bad and your discernment won't help much). The whole world is evil and antichrist. We've already been told this. It's not figurative. It's truth.
I'm realizing that the degeneracy of secular culture runs even deeper than I first imagined too. It's not just rap or rock or modern Hollywood - this goes back much, much further to old vaudeville entertainment and saloons and taverns, and even before that to the common entertainers of the Enlightenment period (not the likes of Bach.. but some of the theater cultures). But it really got it's claws into modern culture on a large scale around the 20s, post WW1. People just became completely vapid and stopped believing in anything. By the 30s, you had Cole Porter write the famous tune "Anything Goes" and Josephine Baker dancing buck naked in Paris. Just listen to what he's saying here. To modern ears, the song sounds "quaint" and something your granny would like - but even he is making fun of religion right off the bat (the line about Puritans) and saying that time is gone.
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=3PPrz8-bAHw
Those who tried to straddle the middle ground end up getting destroyed too, or at least retired and became unhappy. Elvis is the biggest one that comes to mind. He did great versions of "How Great Thou Art" and "Amazing Grace", but he how also degenerated culture into so many tangible (as well as intangible) ways. There's a story I heard of him in the 70s, when he was watching TV. He was flipping through the channels and came across some queer looking glam rockers and was shocked. He asked his girlfriend: "Did I do this?" It'd finally come full circle.
His counterpart Jerry Lee Lewis, to this day, says he's going to Hell for playing rock n roll. He says he knows it, but he's too weak to change. Little Richard was another. He originally quit in the 50s, and came out with Gospel albums.. only to cave and dawn his makeup and play the prancing queer again.
A similar story could be said of female "bombshells", like Ann Margret or Raquel Welch. These old starlets talk about God now, but they themselves contributed to what women should be. I'm sure they've had their moments of seeing Miley Cyrus or something and asking themselves "Did I do this?"
You can't even be safe around Classical music. The Orthodox tend to love Tchaikovsky's church based works. for example. But he was a closeted homosexual himself.
You can't trust anything or anyone but Christ.
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aabdcc No.840471
So, I think a good way might be to clear it out to start with. Now, I would first suggest going to God and asking Him where you fall. I've done this a few times, I was conscious of what I watched and listened to. But I've grown and I watch a little more that others may consider off limits. These past few months a friend, with the guidance of God, watched a significant amount of…South Park. Yes, really. It is funny, insightful and we absolutely lost it laughing at the absolute absurdity of it. We also watch violent shows, he loves Attack on Titan, that's not my thing, but it's his. I've watched plenty of violent anime and films too and God has spoken to me through it. I write and this stuff influences my writing.
Anyways, I would say, pray and ask God to guide you. See what's comfortable. Don't feel bad if you can't watch South Park, maybe God doesn't want you to for a reason and wants to speak to you through another form of entertainment?
Oh yeah, before you watch something, ask God to give you the fullness. I did that before watching a few movies, including Spongebob Squarepants: A Sponge out of water, and I never had so much fun. He did that for The Boy and the Beast too, that was real good. He amplified how good it was.
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5f4c62 No.841493
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e813eb No.841660
>>839836
Having been a Christian and politically conservative all of my life, I have gotten used to dealing with the fact that most entertainment media is secular at best, actively hostile to Christianity at worst. What I do is to ensure that what I partake in isn’t a stumbling block to me or my family/anyone I know. For example, I have played video games where the protagonists fight against a god in the game with no issue. But sometimes it draws a line (like in a game called Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse, where your final task is to kill YWHW. I could write it off as killing the god of Judaism, but it’s still too close to home, especially when your character is given the title of Messiah). You will find out where your line is as you grow in your faith, but it’s going to most likely end in failure for you if you try to cut out all secular media (unless you take up monastery life or live off the grid).
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526246 No.841685
>>841660
>I could write it off as killing the god of Judaism
If you rationalized that, you're already lost. Only Gnostics said that there is a separate "god of Judaism".
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526246 No.841690
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63cbc0 No.841705
>>841685
Do you legitimately believe that people that practice judaism believe in our God? If your answer is anything other than “no” then you need to do some more learning. And on the off-chance that you though I was talking about the God of the Israelites, then no, I am not.
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526246 No.841711
>>841705
They are still the same people. Just because many are deluded by the Talmud and later innovations doesn't mean they're no longer Israelites. God still has a plan for Israel, and they will see the light one day. Paul warned you of this kind of arrogance. Listen to him. He even warned to not be smug about the Pharisees, who killed Christ.
"Do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, 'Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.' That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you." - 1 Cor 11:18-21
Do not stand proud, but fear.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction." - Proverbs 1:7
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63cbc0 No.841738
>>841711
That’s all well and good, but you did not answer my question: do people that practice Judaism believe in God? The answer is no. They don’t believe that Jesus is Lord and they deny the Holy Spirit. You can’t say you believe in God but deny the trinity.
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2fbed7 No.841968
I’ve seriously struggled with this issue, not because of a preventative worry, but because I now hold certain secular music very dear to me, having it associated with very significant events in my life. That’s… worrisome. Of course, there is the use of complex music to cultivate a sense of aesthetics and “exercise” the mind, like learning music theory or listening to autechre/idm in general. But even without that, good music “makes a case” and can present ideas, for good or bad I think. I currently feel it is better to do all things as motivated by and only through moralistic reasoning instead of the sensory - and know this to apply to what I’ve seen. That’s how I’m reasoning now when I justify listening to secular music all day with art of my attention usually on it, even though the Orthodox Church and most Christians generally historically warned against it. That’s not even getting started on movies, but that’s less of a language in which people communicate I feel.
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2fbed7 No.841971
>>840471
see
>>840467
>>839845
You’re a human being and incapable of deciphering the enitrety of propaganda thrown at you with full comprehension and criticism. This would be true for a single glimpse at a passing ad, but it is not taking into account the power of repitition.
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526246 No.841980
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=K5cgFgXYChU
Worldly bliss lasts but a moment.
It is here, then it is gone.
The longer I experience it,
The less value I find in it.
For it is mingled with cares,
With sorrows and with failures,
And in the end it leaves man poor and naked when it departs.
All the bliss here and there
Amounts in the end to weeping and moaning.
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526246 No.842015
>>841968
I hear you actually. I'm a musician myself, which is why I kept one foot in the water, after initially abandoning music when I came to Christ. There's probably a "sweet spot" in even secular music appreciation, but I don't know it. I pray that you find it. What I'm sure we should never do however is engage with that part of culture or take it seriously. Ironically, I'll actually use a Kinks song to drive that point home:
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=qiVdyg52uU0
There's a lady plays her fav'right records
On the jukebox ev'ry day.
All day long she plays the same old songs,
And she believes the things that they say.
Other ladies like to prance around
And flirt and dance the whole night through,
But she just sits and listens to here juke box records,
'Cause that's all that she wants to do.
She sings along with all the saddest songs,
And she believes the stories are real.
She let's the music dictate the way that she feels.
It's only juke box music,
Only juke box music.
It's only music,
Only juke box music,
Only juke box music.
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