/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>839671

Hell is not this for sure. Revelations is symbolic. The fire is meant to symbolize eternal destruction.

There are two deaths mentioned in the Bible. One is a rest (Sheol in Hebrew, hades in Greek). The other is Gehenna, the eternal destruction, the second death in which there is no returning from.

In the second death one is deleted from existence completely, the cries the souls make from Gehenna is symbolic. God can remember you and bring you back anytime, He simply won’t. satan is also sent to Gehenna after his release from imprisonment that will befall him when Jesus returns. satan is not the king of hell, he fears it. he has no power in hell, he doesn’t rule over anyone in hell. his being there means he is destroyed. The place satan will be imprisoned in with his fellow demons is not hell, it’s a separate prison (Tartarus). satan will be imprisoned there for a thousand years (also a symbolic number, because it’s not justice to only give a criminal, let’s say, 10 years for 100 years of crime).

Sheol, Gehenna, and Tartarus are all separate places. I encourage you to delete everything you’ve heard about hell and read the Bible alone to give you an idea of what hell is. Eternally torturing people is a sign that their sins have left an eternal damage. God says He will erase all the damage done by satan, that means He has no need of torturing people forever.

The MEMORY of the souls of people in hell will forever cry out to God for resurrection, but God will never give it to them because of their sins. Even without a literal hell fire, this is extremely terrifying if you think about it.

The thought that God would actually want to hear the cries of sinners for an eternity is insulting to God. He has plans to put all this behind Him, and if everything is healed, why should He not also enjoy nothing but cries of joy? Why would God tolerate the cries of sinners constantly reminding him of the evil that once broke out into existence? All evil will be destroyed, even the memory of it.

Does God not deserve silence? Does God not deserve peace? Should God’s creation be happier than God Himself? The eternal agonizing pain and screams are not something God enjoys. He enjoys justice and the closing of a matter. First Closure, then looking forward.

Also, after 1000 symbolic years in Tartarus satan and his demons are released again for a short while and later thrown into Gehenna. Getting destroyed completely along with all of his demons. satan is mortal, he will be destroyed. Read the book of Revelations, it has what you need to know about hell.

>>839672

I don't think most people will actually desire resurrection. They don't while they are in time, we have no right to suppose they would in eternity.

>>839674

The structure of the throne of God proves that time is here to stay. Time will always exist. It may stop if God wants it to, but Revelation clearly says the devil will be imprisoned for a thousand years, that proves time is being used even then. Time is permanent. The word forever means eternal time, the forever existence of it. Only to God time is bendable and mergeable, stoppable and increasable. But to everything else, even angels, time will always be a force that will effect all of God’s creations. God created time to last forever, without time there is no “forever”.

>>839674

I find it difficult to understand your views on time, it’s very foreign to me. For example, even with God in eternity, one needs time. How will one give praise to God in heaven without time to give that praise? Starting and finishing a sentence requires one word said after the next, that’s all impossible without time to separate every nano second of existence, here and in heaven. God told Jesus in heaven to ‘wait’ till He sets his enemies at his feet. The saints, upon their resurrection in heaven are given white robes and told to ‘wait’ a little longer. Jesus and the saints in heaven, while being in heaven with God are under times existence. My brain simply can’t understand an existence without time. I know some things are above our powers of understanding, but I don’t think we can apply that to the subject of time.

If you can come up with an explanation that I can understand, I’ll definitely ponder and pray on it.

>>839675

>The word forever means eternal time, the forever existence of it.

Maybe you're thinking eternity is a timespan longer than all timespans. This is not what eternity is according to the lexicon of the era the texts were written. What you understand by eternity is the mathematical concept of transfinity.

>>839677

>I find it difficult to understand your views on time, it’s very foreign to me. For example, even with God in eternity, one needs time. How will one give praise to God in heaven without time to give that praise?

I remember making that same question years ago. However, Christ never described the kingdom like Mohammed did. I believe it is beyond description because there the language and thought-patterns for this life are not fully translatable unto and from the next.

>>839684

and your explanation for time existing in heaven and the creatures in it? Even for God while he was creating things for 6 days and resting on the seventh? I don’t see how these aren’t units in measurement of time.

>>839693

>Even for God while he was creating things for 6 days and resting on the seventh?

When I said God in this sentence I was referring to Christ, usually I don’t feel a need to clarify between the two but for this discussion I feel it’s necessary. I also feel like it’s going to be a very complex discussion, because The Father, The Holy Spirit, and The Son, seem to very accurately parallel Time, Space, and Matter. A concept that I’ve heard once from a Christian arguing against atheism that stuck with me deeply till this day. It’s going to be difficult for you to remove these stances I hold but even I will give you a listening ear and pray that your ideas on the matter stick if it’s closer to the truth and God’s view of things. No one can resist the truth anyway and we must all yield to it.

>>839693

Our experience of reality is degenerated by sin, this all Christians can agree. When we are fully healed from the condition of sin, our perception of reality and reality itself will change. That is all I tried to say. I do not think it is not possible to describe how it shall be, since we only know this manner of percieving this specific reality.

I do not believe in the eternality of the laws of nature, but that they are subject to the will of the Father.

>>839671

The idea that suffering always makes you stronger comes from movies and vidya games. There are lots of people who have been tortured and are now ruined shells. Also most people who claim to have seen hell don't describe people becoming more muscular hardened badasses, but rather, people screaming in senseless agony or thrown around by reptilian monsters.

>>839714

Could swear Sheol and Hades were separate locations. I.e., the prior being separation from God (which I would claim, earth post the fall is and all those who haven't received God are in). The later being a place of actual (temporary) punishment, until the Lake of Sulfur.

(One thing weird to me was always how Hades gets thrown into the Lake of Sulfur, as if an "object" is being thrown in. Lol, if this was a web novel, I'd almost imagine hell as a microcosm within a treasure or object, then throwing that "treasure" and consequently hell into another thing makes more sense).

>>839788

Makes sense! Yeah I think dying and then being sent to one of two places is just the simplified normie format, in reality the other realities are just as complicated as different cities and timezones on planet earth.

>>839788

Hades and Sheol are the same. They are the place souls go to rest, the first death. When death is no more, there is no need for hades and Sheol, so they are thrown into eternal destruction, proving once more that the lake of fire (Gehenna) is symbolic.

>>839671

Hell is gay and for gays because the devil is gay.

>>839812

Based.