/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>839177

When Jesus returns, the catholic church will try to crucify him again.

>>839178

Same with the JW’s, minus the coke filled orgies (hopefully). Although they have cracked down on some of it, new lawsuits are constantly being filed. Still, not even close to the sins of the Vatican elite.

People should also look into Cardinal George Pell. People should look into every denomination actually. On a lighter note…

Good news guys, it’s time for me to knock out. You got a good 8 hours before I wake up, minimum. I’ll pray for you “3rd Comand-anon”.

>>839181

so do you think pope francis is a good pope and I'm criticizing him unfairly?

>>839185

Is that what he said?

Definitely Papal Infallibility. Only God can be infallible. This doctrine essentially puts the Pope on the same level as God (and I realize there's some nuance in this; I'm an ex-Catholic, you don't need to explain it to me). The Catholic Church was bad before, but by idolizing a man on the same level as God, it became unsalvageable and irredeemable.

>>839195

Everything a king says is not a law or an edict, but that only which a king says as king and as a legislator. So everything the Pope says is not canon law or of legal obligation; he must mean to define and to lay down the law for the sheep, and he must keep the due order and form.

We must not think that in everything and everywhere his judgment is infallible, but then only when he gives judgment on a matter of faith in questions necessary to the whole Church; for in particular cases which depend on human fact he can err, there is no doubt.

Theologians have said that he can err extra cathedram, outside the chair of Peter, that is, as a private individual, by writings and bad example. But he cannot err when he is in cathedra, that is, when he intends to make an instruction and decree for the guidance of the whole Church, when he means to confirm his brethren as supreme pastor, and to conduct them into the pastures of the faith. For then it is not so much man who determines, resolves, and defines as it is the Blessed Holy Spirit by man, which Spirit, according to the promise made by Our Lord to the Apostles, teaches all truth to the Church.

Rejection of Papal Infallibility is Rejection of the Sovereign qua Sovereignty.

>>839177

Mark 16:16-18

He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned.

And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils: they shall speak with new tongues.

They shall take up serpents; and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them: they shall lay their hands upon the sick, and they shall recover.

Perhaps each one says to himself: "I, now, have believed, and therefore I will be saved." He says true, if his faith includes works. For true faith demands that one does not contradict in one's conduct what one affirms by his words. This is why Saint Paul says about some false believers: "They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their deeds." (Titus 1:16). And Saint John: "He who says he knows God, but does not keep his commandments, is a liar" (1 John 2:4).

Indeed, we are truly believers only if we fulfil in our works what we promise in our words. On the day of our baptism, we promised to renounce all the works and all the seductions of the ancient enemy. May each one of you consider himself with the eyes of the spirit: if after baptism, he keeps what he promised before baptism, that he be certain to be a true believer and let him rejoice. But if he fell by committing bad deeds or desiring the seductions of this world, he did not keep what he had promised.

Matthew 16:16-19

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.

And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him - that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fullness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven.

Also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder of Matthew:

Matthew 7:24-25

Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock,

And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.

And as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

>>839217

>And as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ

They sure are prevailing over the Catholic Church today. The Catholic Church does idolatry in plane sight. And I’m sick of mentioning their other evils all the time. Evil is evil. I will not tolerate it. God doesn’t either. Who in their right mind would subject their family to that churches evils? It’s all over the internet, every one knows what the pope is. Evil not prevailing over it, and evil not being in it are two different things. Overall I think you’ve been mislead by a twisting of these scriptures and can’t accept you were lied to from the beginning when you were weak in bible theology to argue properly. Christ also told us we shall know them by their works. The Catholic Church works evil. We’ve all seen it. We’ve all heard the tales and know people with stories. Evil is an epidemic in the Catholic Church. No such place has the blessing of God. The first seven churches in revelation where blessed by God first then Jesus told them to repent or He’ll destroy them. Just curious, which of the seven churches Jesus spoke to in revelation was peters church?

>>839220

Revelation 1:11

Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

The Church of Christ was not at the time in these places alone, but all fullness is comprised in the number seven; for universality is wont to be denoted by the number seven, in that all the time of this age is evolved from seven days. Asia, which is interpreted elevation, denotes the proud exaltation of the world in which the Church is sojourning, and, as is the method of the divine mystery, the genus is contained in the species. For the Apostle Paul also writes to seven churches, but not to the same as St. John. And although these seven churches are a sevenfold figure of the whole Church, still the things which he blames, or praises, came to pass in them one by one.

Per the Bishop of Petau, Victorinus on the Creation of the World:

Behold the seven horns of the Lamb, (Rev. 5:6) the seven eyes of God (Zech. 4:10) - the seven eyes are the seven spirits of the Lamb;(Rev. 4:5) seven torches burning before the throne of God (Rev. 4:5) seven golden candlesticks, (Rev. 1:13) seven young sheep, (Lev. 23:18) the seven women in Isaiah, (Isa. 4:1) the seven churches in Paul, (Rev. 1:11) seven deacons, (Acts 6:3) seven angels, (Rev. passim.) seven trumpets, (Josh. 6.; Rev. 8) seven seals to the book, seven periods of seven days with which Pentecost is completed, the seven weeks in Daniel, (Dan. 9:25) also the forty-three weeks in Daniel; (Dan. 9) with Noah, seven of all clean things in the ark; (Gen. 7:2) seven revenges of Cain, (Gen. 4:15) seven years for a debt to be acquitted, (Deut. 15:1) the lamp with seven orifices, (Zech. 4:2) seven pillars of wisdom in the house of Solomon.

2nd Epistle of Saint Peter 2:1

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Epistle of Saint James 3:1

Be ye not many masters, my brethren, knowing that you receive the greater judgment.

Do not confuse the evil of some clergy with the Catholic Church; the road to Hell is paved with the skulls of priests. For as Saint James continues:

Epistle of Saint James 3:4

Behold also ships, whereas they are great, and are driven by strong winds, yet are they turned about with a small helm, whithersoever the force of the governor willeth.

>>839220

>>839227

As an addendum, consider the words of Saint Athanasius:

Even if the true Church of Christ were reduced to a handful of true believers and one true priest, they would remain the true Church of Christ on earth.

>>839217

Everything he says that's not according to Scripture is of no obligation. That right there is the proper order and form my friend.

>>839220

Nobody needs to hear from a heretic who denies the Holy Spirit of God on this board.

>>839227

Can you please simplify your words. The truth is very simple and if you have it you can also speak in simplicity. Jesus spoke in simplicity. He spoke in parables that many were able to understand from different backgrounds.

Now, 7 churches is represented by 7 lamp stands. That was completion. He was speaking to them all. Not just the few that he felt like speaking to. I think it’s fair to reason that there were only seven churches and maybe some like to view them as seven denominations of Christianity, which I can’t argue and sounds more accurate. The point I’m trying to make is, even if Catholicism was one of those churches, there are six more beside that one that are equally as important to Christ, and he reserved the right to take their lamp stands away. He threatened them as well as encouraged. One of those churches was excommunicating members and many were thrown out for the love they had for Christ and disagreements of doctrine.

You, as a Catholic, need to accept that Catholicism is not required by Jesus in order to be saved, it is not “the way”, Christ is the way. One does not need to be a catholic. One does not need to be in a church, just like those unrighteously excommunicated members were not part of any church but kept their faith and Jesus declared them righteous even when they were “released” by men. Some that were still “bound” with the church were going to get destruction. Jesus doesn’t judge the way you’ve been taught He does. We should all be grateful of that.

Jesus judges the heart of a person, nothing physical can be used to measure salvation. A rogue Christian keeping his/her relationship with God favorable is all it takes to be saved. If these churches followed Jesus properly, rogue Christianity would be unnecessary. Who doesn’t want to enjoy a loving brotherhood that safeguards all morality? But, because these denominations are sinning the most grotesque of sins, Jesus will not judge anyone for leaving their church, He will judge the ones that leave according to their hearts and fruits. Jesus never gave any human the power you believe He gave Peter and the Catholic Church.

I will say this one thing, writing this has made me realize that Catholicism, although very sinful and an abomination today, seems to not be beyond redemption. Once Jesus has killed off all your evil members, as he will do with all denominations, and once your members, including you, realize that all these “rumors” were facts and lament over them and apologize to Christ for your sins and for ignoring His warnings, the church that is Catholicism just might be shown mercy.

The difference between you and me, in this regard, is that I’m willing to believe and accept that you will not be destroyed for being Catholic. You however believe I will be destroyed for being a rogue Christian. I assure you, we all will get what Jesus knows we deserve. He will judge us by the condition of our hearts and the fruits we produce through them.

I hope I didn’t go to far into a tangent, but if you simplify your words, I can avoid some of that.

>>839232

You don’t know the Holy Spirit. I’ve met Her. I’m glad you don’t believe me because you can attack me to demonstrate your zeal, and maybe Jesus will count it as righteousness. However, if you realized I actually hear Her voice, you would attack me out of violent envy, and that would be bad for your relationship with Jesus. Carry on as you are.

>>839235

As I explained in my previous post, >>839227, universality is denoted by the number seven, and I made reference to the writings of Scripture and the assent of the Church Fathers in doing so. John then is speaking not of seven churches but of the Universal Church.

Authority belongs to the Sovereign Pontiff, "to whom the more important and more difficult questions that arise in the Church are referred," as stated in the Decretals [*Dist. xvii, Can. 5]. Hence our Lord said to Peter whom he made Sovereign Pontiff (Lk. 22:32): "I have prayed for thee," Peter, "that thy faith fail not, and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren." The reason of this is that there should be but one faith of the whole Church, according to 1 Cor. 1:10: "That you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you": and this could not be secured unless any question of faith that may arise be decided by him who presides over the whole Church, so that the whole Church may hold firmly to his decision. Consequently, all matters which concern the whole Church belong to the sole authority of the Sovereign Pontiff.

Denying the Epistle of Saint Paul and the Papal Authority of Saint Peter, and his successors, placed upon him by Jesus Christ is heretical.

A "rogue Christian" is both oxymoronic and heretical to the teachings of Christ and His Church on the honour and maintenance of hierarchy.

Make reference to scripture and reasoned argument, or acknowledge that your position places you in schism with Jesus Christ, His Apostles, and His Church; calling any of the sons of Adam genetic waste is counter to the very dictum of the Holy Roman Universal Church.

>>839246

>Authority belongs to the Sovereign Pontiff

No it doesn't. Grace can be lost through sin. The nation of Israel lost God's grace and so has the catholic church, if it ever had it to begin with. How many children do you think the catholic church can rape and murder before they lose their grace? Apparently you believe it's an infinite number. The most disturbing thing about catholics making this claim about the supremecy of the catholic church is that they have zero compassion for the victims of their church. And the victims are their own children. They are completely unwilling to hold their own church to account for the evils they commit on an ongoing basis. Far from it, they demand that these perverts raping their kids are the people we are supposed to come crawling to in order to gain salvation.

>The reason of this is that there should be but one faith of the whole Church, according to 1 Cor. 1:10:

He was talking to the church at Corinthia, not the whole church. Churches in different regions that rise from different cultures will have different practices. Your heretical view is that Christianity is imposed on the saved.

Your pope is an evil man. if he were responsible for the salvation of the planet, he would prevent it intentionally. I can see the benefit of having one leader over all the church and I think that's probably what God intends, but there is no benefit in that one leader being a satan worshipping jesuit pedophile like your current pope or a pagan church thinly veiled in Christianity, which is what catholicism is.

>>839246

I’m gonna have to disagree with your views on one church being over the rest and one pontiff holding such powers. Jesus is the head, you have much built on the foundation of a single misleading scripture. I guess we’ll have to let Jesus prove you wrong, I on the other hand have seen evidence that your version of this belief is wrong. I was once in a cult that used scripture and twisted the meanings to sound like they were the only way to salvation, I’m familiar with such tactical usage of scriptures to fit narratives, but the catholic version of it is not my specialty. I know it’s false although I lack the ability to put it in words.

Providing scripture will not help you because you keep coming back to the same one and that is the whole of your belief, there are many scriptures that prove you wrong and you simply believe this one you keep referring to is above them all. Your mental structure of reasoning is as controlled as the scriptures you refer to. This is the same peter that denied Christ three times and was given mercy, essentially he “released” himself three times, I don’t want to get into speculation about this but I’m trying to show you how merciful Jesus is.

You keep providing ultimatums at the end, you should know I don’t, in the least, feel threatened by Jesus’ second coming, at all. I’m impatiently waiting for it. I will not kneel to your doctrine and you will see that it’s false one day. You can not tell me either accept X or suffer Y. I don’t feel threatened at all sir, you should wonder why that is. You have no power, I don’t feel any strength in your words. I’m not convicted whatsoever. If only YOU knew how blasphemous your belief in one man in control of all Christianity is then you would be ashamed, but even for you there is mercy.

Also, I never called anyone genetic waste. I always namefag here, please show me the post and I’ll apologize swiftly, because that doesn’t sound like me at all.

>>839247

>I can see the benefit of having one leader over all the church and I think that's probably what God intends,

Christ is the head of the church, we all have one Lord to serve. You have his word. We have one Lord to serve, not that false anti-christ.

>pagan church thinly veiled in Christianity, which is what catholicism is.

The whole idea of metropolitan sees and successionism is an invention of man. These people have just been larping about it being true this whole time just to build their own prestige. You will see clearly it isn't Biblical, unless you think the apostles went to hell like Judas Iscariot and had to be replaced like he did.

Anyone with eyes to see knows that that is Antichrist.

I would also suggest you don't listen to that God-denying heretic who posts in here either; that Manichaean kabbalist stuff is very dangerous.

>>839247

>He was talking to the church at Corinthia, not the whole church.

By this specious reasoning, the Pauline Epistles to Saint Timothy are for the practice of Saint Timothy alone.

Dominion and authority are institutions of human law, while the distinction between faithful and unbelievers arises from the Divine law. Now the Divine law which is the law of grace, does not do away with human law which is the law of natural reason. Wherefore the distinction between faithful and unbelievers, considered in itself, does not do away with dominion and authority of unbelievers over the faithful.

Nevertheless this right of dominion or authority can be justly done away with by the sentence or ordination of the Church who has the authority of God: since unbelievers in virtue of their unbelief deserve to forfeit their power over the faithful who are converted into children of God.

We are not speaking of a specific Pope but of the Authority particular to the Papacy.

In regard to Antipope Francis, he should be deposed as per the argument regarding heretical Popes of Saint Robert Bellarmine.

>>839250

There can be no discussion where such unjustified obstinacies are taken as truths; you admit of no principle or dictum from which you might be brought to the light of reason.

>>839235

>Can you please simplify your words.

LOL, he's directly quoting scripture and you want him to "simplify" his words?

>>839279

He had a long post. I wasn’t familiar with many of the terms anon was using. The scriptures were understandable of coarse, but not why he was using them. His lingo was confusing to me. Not a bad tactic to be vague with beautiful words in order to cause confusion on purpose so no argument can be made. Yes I wanted him to simplify. Was there anything wrong with that? We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Although the words he used are not complicated by themselves, they are hard to comprehend when placed together like that. No one talks like that anon does. It was a poor attempt by him to sound educated. No spiritual person that’s trying to help someone understand something would ever talk like that.

Would you like to simplify for him and prove to us that you understood his arguments? If it’s so easy and comical to you that I didn’t understand it you can obviously clarify it for me.

It's probably the sacrifice of the mass, since it all at once 1. destroys the gospel, 2. profanes the Lord's supper, turning it into 3. a vile idolatrous abomination

>>839253

>By this specious reasoning

no it isn't. he made it clear he was talking to the church at corinth about disputes he heard has arisen within that church, not the entire church. you are stretching that scripture to mean more than it does. Different people have different history, culture, and tradition. if you're saying that's all sandblasted away for a one size fits all Christianity then transformed Christianity into a globalist occupying force.

>Nevertheless this right of dominion or authority can be justly done away with by the sentence or ordination of the Church who has the authority of God:

That's the reasoning that got the jesuits kicked out of almost as many countries as the jews.

Both the catholics and the protestants are in error and neither will admit it. They'd rather cling to their sin and accuse the other.

>>839310

"And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come."

[Matthew 24:14]

"And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

[Mark 16:15]

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness."

[1 Corinthians 3:19]

"And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what is the good, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God."

[Romans 12:2]

Christianity is Universal Truth. Make reference to the writing of some Church Father if you think otherwise.

>That's the reasoning that got the jesuits kicked out of almost as many countries as the jews.

You are implying that the Church is beneath any Government of Men; and, that the expulsion of the Jesuits is equivalent to that of the Jews.

Such positions are contrary to the teaching of Christ and history.

>>839321

"truth" and "tradition" are two different things. There can be varying traditions but the same truth.

>Romans 2:24-27 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

Paul clearly defends the different practices of gentiles and Jews. In all the letters paul wrote and the prophecies to the churches in revelations, never once does Paul or the angels insist they should be one church under one leader. That doctrine is just a heresy committed by your pagan leaders who could care less about Christ and only care about acquiring power.

>>839195

Yeah that would be bad, if it existed. Several Catholics, including some brave bishops, are outspoken against the errors of current and past popes. Not all popes even become saints; they receive a lower form of spiritual reverence than even those.

Papal Infallibility draws from Church Infallibility, yet we know that the church will (and does) have infiltrators and those who use it to commit financial crimes etc. And there are those in the Church who have subsequently blown the whistle on these acts. It's crazy to suggest anyone believes this means "flawless". Even the Wikipedia articles include the limits of Infallibility.

If you left the Church because of the heresy of the current Pope or NO Mass, I would encourage a reconsideration.

>>839354

Besides contradicting yourself; as if you claim that Saint Paul was writing his epistles solely for certain groups then you cannot justify any position using the Pauline Epistles, especially as no one can claim to be a Roman as unto the Romans; Saint Paul was redefining circumcision and Jew, as he continues:

>Romans 2:28-29

For it is not he is a Jew, who is so outwardly; nor is that circumcision which is outwardly in the flesh: But he is a Jew, that is one inwardly; and the circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

He does not say that the uncircumcision overcomes circumcision, but that the uncircumcision has become circumcision. Saint Paul enquires what circumcision is, and what uncircumcision is, and he says that circumcision is well-doing and uncircumcision is evil-doing. And having first transferred into the circumcision the uncircumcision, and having thrust out the circumcised into the uncircumcision, Saint Paul gives the preference to the uncircumcised. He sets aside all bodily things. For the circumcision is outwardly, as are the sabbaths and the sacrifices and purifications; and the uncircumcision is of the heart and of the spirit.

>>839414

You're ranting nonsensically because you know you've lost this argument. Paul didn't demand that both the Jews and the greeks adhere to the same tradition. He didn't demand that the Jews stop getting circumcised or that the gentiles start. He makes it clear that different traditions are fine for different peoples.

Your pagan cult is evil and solely concerned with acquiring power. That's why the Jesuits have been kicked out of 89 countries. That's why you can't show love or fellowship to anyone and why you feel nothing but hatred for Christians. But that's ok because I don't hate you. I hope for the best for you and I pray that you'll find God at the end of the road you're travelling and that if what I say about the catholic church is true then God will reveal that to you. And if what I say is false then I pray that God reveals that to me.

>>839477

It is ok because everything is in the Lord's hands.

>>839181

Check out this channel, lad. Tell me it's all just coincidence.

https://www.invidio.us/channel/UCefPpd-HJMYzrRuS8B_xE7w