deface No.838370
Is it legitimate to compromise on traditionalism in the church service in order to be less alien to a blue collar population?
There's two historic controversies, "high church" vs "low church" and the "seeker sensitive/church growth" movement.
Compromising in doctrine is unacceptable, but where exactly are the lines on certain practices?
If a suit is less off putting than pulpit robes, I think in a rural context the preacher should wear a suit. Untucked shirts and jeans are irreverent and give a bad impression imo.
Complicated organ performances are great and beautiful but most people find them boring. It would be better to sing simple hymns with simple accompaniment. Rock worship is irreverent and is across the line.
What do you think?
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b49bab No.838371
>>838370
>What do you think?
Follow scripture. Vestments aren't required at all, in any place. Except for the original temple/Levitical era. None of the original disciples did any of this. And it just got worse over time, when clerics started dressing in "career" garb full time and not just limiting it to the services. Not even the early Byzantine church did this. Church fathers like St. Chrysostom still had their street clothes, and only used vestments for churches. Somewhere along the way, the clerics liked parading around looking like holy men on the streets. And just like the Pharisees that Jesus called out for displaying their piety in full public and wanting praise at how holy they were and walking around like clowns with their phylacteries on, these Christian clerics have also "received their earthly reward" of adulation.
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deface No.838372
>>838371
I agree but you should rephrase it as "vestments aren't required and give a wrong message when used outside the pulpit. The further debate is then whether they are expedient in the pulpit.
Many things aren't required by scripture but are good or at least theologically neutral, like indoor plumbing.
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b49bab No.838373
>>838372
Well, let me just add. At the end of the day, imitate Christ. He didn't put on airs in his incarnation or look "obviously" like the part or have lightning bolts shooting out of his eyes. He came as another man, a lowly human like us, and still pointed out the way of life.
Church services in general have a nasty problem of putting on airs or engaging in "engineering" to tilt the "game" in their favor. Incense, bells, whistles, vestments, architecture.. and I'm not just picking on "high churches" necessarily either. Charismatics are especially guilty of "creating a mood". They time when to dim lights, when to bring climaxes in musical moments, etc.. It's very manipulative and offensive, except for the weak who get brainwashed by it all.
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deface No.838374
>>838373
I appreciate your input
What is your idea of an ideal church service? What does the sanctuary look like, what happens, how long is it?
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64df9b No.838378
>>838370
Jesus taught us that bowing to tradition was not enough to become redeemed and enter Heaven. You have to be sure of your faith in God. Only by giving up your mind, body, and soul to God can you enter Heaven.
To abandon stuffy traditional laws and instead spread the message of Jesus among as many people of as many different peoples, creeds and lifestyles as possible so they may be redeemed and enter Heaven is extremely Christlike. And is our one aim as Christians not to be Christlike?
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0b6978 No.838379
The countryside has always been more liturgical than cities. You have it completely reversed. It is the starbucks ubanites who prefer low church.
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ac93c0 No.838390
>>838378
>Jesus taught us that bowing to tradition was not enough to become redeemed and enter Heaven. You have to be sure of your faith in God. Only by giving up your mind, body, and soul to God can you enter Heaven
Surely you mean to have true faith as believing Christ to be the One true Son of God, sent to redeem the sins of man through his life and death on the cross?
Because that’s all that is required, and the rest comes from having that faith.
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deface No.838397
>>838379
There's no such thing as a rural cathedral. Suburbans are the ones who have rock services.
Low church isnt exactly what I'm talking about here, but its a similar historic controversy
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7f2a85 No.838445
>>838370
what an entirely trivial concern.
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251915 No.838464
>>838370
>Is it legitimate to compromise on traditionalism in the church service in order to be less alien to a blue collar population?
>If a suit is less off putting than pulpit robes, I think in a rural context the preacher should wear a suit. Untucked shirts and jeans are irreverent and give a bad impression imo.
>Complicated organ performances are great and beautiful but most people find them boring. It would be better to sing simple hymns with simple accompaniment.
As one of the subjects of your question I find your condescending attitude reproachable. The gall of some urbanite to imagine they are too sophisticated for us, when they've been the authors of iniquity in the church, shouldn't be lost on anyone. Take the beam out of your own eye faggot.
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6abc72 No.838467
>>838370
>Complicated organ performances are great and beautiful but most people find them boring. It would be better to sing simple hymns with simple accompaniment.
Anything more than psalms is strange fire before the Lord.
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deface No.838476
>>838464
Youre entirely reading that into my post
>>838445
Making disciples is not trivial
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bfdfc6 No.838479
Use a proper liturgy, and that stuff's settled.
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6fe4bf No.844637
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6fe4bf No.844638
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