/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>837269

when state isn't christian we make a distinction.

>>837270

Unsure what you mean by this. What I am saying is this is at face value a falsehood of the basic truths of the almighty being the alpha and omega, eternal and creator of all, all under him.

This line, and the hate your mother/family lines are the 2 things that i am unable to reconcile with everything else he taught.

he had something profound to say in everything I read, and has multiple layers of good and ways to learn.

But these two, especially the caesar line.. I cannot see what is good in it.

First he says you literally must hate your family.

Then he claims that caesar has something that is not Gods, and has things separate from God.

Jesus speaks in parables, but he doesn't say things that blatantly false at first glance, and one needn't glance twice at what Jesus says, one must simply look deeper.

I can't look deeper into these two particular lines. They are at face-value bad and false. Forgive me lord.

And again, I can understand the inferences to be made here.. but I do not simply just look at what Jesus says and guess.

I read his words. They hold up literally almost everywhere. Except these two lines. I dont understand how he can say these two things. I know he is wise etc.. but still. wtf.

> The truth is that everything is of God…

> I cannot understand why Jesus would speak as if this was not the case.

so just to be clear, your objection is that God the Son who created all things and from whom all things derive, having originally given dominion of the earth to man, and then provided all wealth and resources to whichever kingdom and authority He determined and put in place - carrying each of those governments on His shoulder, as King of Kings - would then seem to be inconsistent with His own divine nature when saying that some earthly riches fall into the domain of a man, yeah ?

that's what you're taking issue with, right ?

yeah, boy, that's a doozy – no idea how to get round that one, i guess christianity is a big load of bunkum and God doesn't exist after all

well that's it lads – time to shut the board down, we're all just wasting our time

>>837273

Right, this is the only thing I can really do here..

"God is always right"

And, this works for 99.99% of all things confusing in the bible for me.

I cannot simply look at Jesus tell me that God controls everything, but still pay caeser.. because..

and

I cannot simply look at Jesus tell me to winnie the pooh hate my family.. because…

at what point do you stop and ask wtf he actually means here? I say "They are at face-value bad and false."

I dont say they are, hence why I ask questions.. I seek the TRUTH. God didnt give us a brain so we just accept being walked on and winnie the pooh told to hate our winnie the pooh families and accept it did he?? at what point do you ask questions?

forgive me lord.

>>837274

anyway, I am cursing up a storm. it is what it is.

I literally have tried to f*cking sit down and think of reasons to hate my family… and cried tears while doing it.. just to understand Jesus.

it does not seem right.

it does not seem right that everyone should suffer and god will have wrath.. but please pay caeser until then.

F*ck. its whatever. that is all. as i said, just another dumb thread.

And I appreciate and give thanks for allowing this dumb thread to exist. It is pretty dumb. I know. I am just a man searching for the truth, reading his good word. and it is good, this is why I put in the effort when I am stuck with it.

He's being vague because the scribes and chief priests were trying to catch him in a trap. It's right there in the text:

<Luke 20:23 NASB — But He detected their trickery and said to them,

>God created everything and calls the shots.

>I cannot understand why Jesus would speak as if this was not the case. Anyone know? Thanks.

How does this passage give issue to the sovereignty of God? I'm not seeing your logical connection

>>837271

>he claims that caesar has something that is not Gods, and has things separate from God.

He's avoiding the issue and thereby implicitly affirming that those taxes were ungodly.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/03/jeffrey-f-barr/render-unto-caesar-amostmisunderstood-newtestamentpassage/

>>837271

>First he says you literally must hate your family.

Not literally.

Consult some commentaries

https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/14-26.htm

>>837275

Why don't you study the multiple versions and context in why he said that. He doesn't say to actively hate your mother and father. Elsewhere, he says in times of persecution, that even family members will turn on each other. And if you prefer to be in their good graces rather than God's, then you're in trouble. He's saying not to deny him, even when your mother or father force you to.

Some people even have to deal with this day. For example, I heard of an Arab girl who was attacked by her own family when they found out she accepted Jesus. She chose Jesus rather than them. She ended up paying for it with her life.

>>837277

As I said, I understand the inference. I have spent much time researching this..

What I am saying is that Jesus speaks plainly, and his words form truth from foundations of truth, no matter how complex.. he the foundation is truth and everything built upon it is truth.

I have never seen a time where he told people that man has things that are not Gods. Apparently caesar can, this is what Jesus SAID. I dont care to infer if the foundation of truth is not there.. it will fold like a house of cards if not based in truth.

>>837279

Then why would God allow his word to be perverted to such a degree where people are literally reading him say to hate your mother and father?????

Is his word not the TRUTH?? where does it end?? where is the TRUTH barometer for reading his GOOD WORD OF TRUTH.

this is why I READ THINGS LITERALLY AND DO NOT F*CK AROUND WITH THE WORD OF GOD.

>>837280

Slow down and make yourself clear if your objective is discussion.

Speaking plainly doesn't mean all is literal. Every word requires hermeneutical interpretation.

>>837269

I’ve had a problem with the two teachings your referencing. Here’s what made the difference for me.

> the hate your mother/father thing is just pure madness to me

If I remember correctly Jesus also mentioned ones brother and sister. The reason I think He did this was because by the time Jesus was born families controlled their children using teachings from the Pharisees. I’m quite confident that in those days parents had abandoned their roles in raising their children much like the parents today abandon their roles and push on to their children the teachings of their church rather than raising them according to their own personal relationship with God. The world today is very similar to how it was when Jesus first came here. Many parents in those days lead/raised their children to their own spiritual demise and confusion, resulting in hatred in their children toward their own families. Jesus was accepting the fact that those that saw the wisdom in his teachings absolutely had somebody in their family that they hated, most likely their own mother’s or father’s. Jesus wasn’t telling future Christians to hate their families, He was only showing the crowd that He is very aware of where they’re coming from and there was some righteousness to their hate. Jesus also told a man to ‘let the dead bury the dead’ when the man wanted time to bury his father before following Jesus. Jesus wasn’t being cruel, He knew people the moment He would lay eyes on them. He was trying to tell that man that his whole family is dead in God’s eyes and that man’s love for his father was, to much of a degree, undeserved. Jesus wasn’t a chump. He would tell it like it was. We are allowed to hate those that are wicked and we’re not supposed to feel sorry for them. If you have great parents you don’t need to hate them to be a Christian. If one has good parents they are to honor them, but Jesus knew that wasn’t the case for everybody. As for taxes…

> but this line about caesar has slowly started to become what confounds me the most.

Jesus did say this when cornered but His answer is a great one once you know how God pressures kings of the world. God decides who sits on what thrown and when to de-throne a king. No king ever has acceded to a throne without God choosing him for whatever purpose. Any tax taken from people, if God doesn’t approve, that tax will only serve the righteous people in the end. Overall any tax a righteous people have to give by force will end up being the downfall of the king/nation that pushed it. God remembers every cent taken from his people unrighteously. He has plans in place to assure we’ll get it back, it’s not a hard thing for God. Also if the king is so arrogant that he doesn’t learn this or accept it then God will open a path for His followers to avoid paying to caesar what’s his. Jesus asked ‘who’s face is on the coin?’. All the money we use today has a face. Except for the newest currency, crypto. It looks like God has gotten really sick of the governments because He’s allowed the creation of a currency with no face, and if the governments try to take that from us and tax it, then God has another surprise for the kings of today as well. Biblically, Christians have no orders to pay caesar anything that doesn’t have his face, crypto has no face. Governments will try to take that away from us as well somehow, but it will be their next downfall. Maybe it’s already started.

>>837285

Jesus literally said

>Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's

His words. He said God has things, and caesar has things. render unto them accordingly.

>>837286

I can literally reason my way out of a volcano covered in s—, it does not mean my reason will lead me not astray.

I have never gotten anywhere playing guesswork, my mind is deceived when I just trying to "guess" at the meaning.

I like reading Jesus because it literally f*cking tells you in words what is meant. And this is telling me that god and caesar have separate dominions over "things in existence"

and if i were to be bold in assumption, I would say this benefits caesar and principalities quite nicely!

>>837287

Read the article I shared

>>837288

I need a break. You are right in saying I need to slow down. I just get really agitated when people all seem to just discard Jesus and his words if they get stuck on them

I read them, and listen. And occasionally throw a tantrum, but at least I dont f*cking try to replace them with my own, i try.

>>837289

I am good. thanks. I read Jesus.

>>837275

>>837274

> God didnt give us a brain so we just accept being walked on…

if you're so interested in using your God-given rationalé, how about employing it to read what i just said about the King of Kings who determines Nations and their rulers, Who having given them dominion over small spheres of influence such as a bit of money here and there, bestowing upon them wealth from the gold that he planted in their foreordained lands at Creation, and then recognise that while He owns everything, in the book of Genesis he commanded man to take dominion over the Earth and has not recanted on that; thus certain things are bestowed to man for a time - loaned to them, if you will - so it is not inconsistent to say that the coins belong to Caesar, same way as your shoes are yours, but ultimately derive their being from our Creator and thus are owned by God

>>837288

Your questions come from an honest place. I was once angry at the same things said by Jesus. You did the right thing by asking. Your not wrong or evil or weak for wanting clarity on this. It shows you don’t follow things blindly.

>>837294

stop posting

>>837292

God owns all. He may give, and he does with grace and is good to do so.

Yet, all of of God. He is the creator.

It is foolish to forget this, IMO.

Jesus says this 99.99% of the time, except here. And Jesus doesnt speak falsehoods to prove points. He speaks truths.

>>837294

>Your not wrong or evil or weak for wanting clarity on this. It shows you don’t follow things blindly.

Well, sometimes i feels evil and wrong, but alas,

>If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

>>837295

>>837291

What's the relevant difference between asking us for insight or reading a carefully constructed article?

Read it and use judgment on if it is consistent with scripture

>>837296

ok im done posting. i always do this, post something and have to type so fast to quell the uproar of me actually trying to discuss Jesus and his words that i cant even type properly.

i will be back. I read Jesus, i dont f*ck around.

>>837290

I’ll let you in on a secret I learned a while back. Every single scripture that aggravated and pissed me off was a gem after I got clarity on it. When you come across some scripture that clearly doesn’t seem right, it’s the next puzzle you need to solve to strengthen your faith. Solving the puzzle can’t be done by abandoning your free will, or becoming a blind follower. If a scripture pisses you off, good, it’s the new riddle that will make you wiser once solved. Do not accept things blindly.

Damn. We’re you all so bored that you just had to pounce on the guy? Sometimes it’s like your all trying to do nothing but force your cookie-cutter beliefs on people. Not all of you but a good portion of you. Hey I’m not perfect either that’s for sure.

>>837295

What? Why? Was I wrong?

>>837295

Sage. Have you never had doubts yourself? There has never been a point where you weren’t confused? Has God always pampered you? To a point where you think you can tell someone to shut their opinion up? I share with people what has helped me love God after I spent a long time hating him. Who are you to tell me I can’t speak about my Father? Stop posting? SMH.

> Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Next read the rest of the passage.

27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

>33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

So we see that not only is it required to perfectly fulfill this that someone forsake all else that they have, yea even to esteem their own life and those of their family as things to be hated compared to following Christ, but Jesus also exhorts us in the in between passage that we should count the cost whether we are able in ourselves to meet these perfect standards. As the Lord said (Matthew 5:20), "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

We are told here in Luke chapter 14, then, to before setting out to be his disciple, to count the cost whether we have the ability to do all these things in and of ourselves. For if we set out to be perfect and fail part way, it will be like the man that started to build a tower and could not finish it. And so is the case with all people who believe in works salvation, for they always fail in the end, for as James says, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

What should we conclude from this, except what Jesus told us subsequently in Luke; we should count the cost and realize right away this is impossible, that we have sinned and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and then see what He told us later in the same Gospel.

>Luke 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

So then what was impossible for us alone is possible with God, and by having the righteousness of the Lord imputed (2 Corinthians 5:21), and living by faith alone through grace alone— for without blood there is no remission of sins— it is possible to do all of those things purely being enabled by grace, and not of works, lest any man should boast. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

> 1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

—

> Matthew 22:21 Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

What if Caesar is God's? We know this to be true because God created all things, but for a want of a reference, consider 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 and Colossians 1:16. If so, then one may follow both commandments at once.

Recall where Jesus said unto Pilate, "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above:"

Jesus on loyalty divided:

>No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And, Jesus spoke of literally coming to divide (maybe literally wish you to hate your family). Which, I typically see as a bad thing on the surface level.. yet.. I continue asking questions because Jesus seemed like a really good guy who was literally killed for being good. So I pay him the respect of reading what he said and sticking to it.

I know, God first, everything else second. But God is good, love is good.

Meh, I literally listen to him when he says to build a solid foundation. I get tired of speaking to people who have yet to do so, I still listen.. but for fricks sake man. Do you want to understand what God said? I personally do not know all there is, and I am not righteous enough to take liberties in conclusions so easily.. as you do when you say things like "What should we conclude from this, except what Jesus told us subsequently in Luke"

Just.. stating what we should think, and make Jesus the exceptions to what we think.

I look at Jesus first. I thank you for your effortful and probably altruistic reply.

>>837306

for

>>837305

>>837305

> What if Caesar is God's?

nice one KJVO-bro – looking back i should have just said 'and who does Caesar belong to?'

>>837269

Oh look, more evil stuff from the synoptics. What a surprise. If you really want mental gymnastics for this specific verse (which I advise against because you'll just find another synoptic verse you need mental gymnastics for in a vicious cycle) then when Jesus says render unto God what belongs to God he's clearly implying God has superior power to Caesar and therefore Caesar doesn't matter. Is that what that book intended or the message most Christians get from it? Absolutely not, which is why I prefer to just toss it out instead of spray painting garbage gold.

>>837309

You just blew my mind. You deserve the title “Ambassador to Logos”. Which I gave you in my mind because no one uses a name so I give them one in private.

>>837295

I call this one “He who whispers in rage”.

>>837309

>evil stuff

Do you want my opinion here? or do you want me to be humble? F*ck it, ill do both because i am not perfect.

Humble response: I do not judge, I am not God, and I detest evil.

Opinion: Hey, piece of sh1t judgmental a$s, the literal only thing I have prayed for.. has been the same exact thing going on 5 years now. It has been this.

"God, even though I know you are all powerful and all knowing, and full of grace and wisdom.. I ask you to show me how to help relieve the suffering of the people I see in pain, in ways that will leave the world better off in 100 years, instead of much much worse as has been the trend. I do not question your plan, I ask and you provide - as is your promise to do so. So if this cannot be done, I ask that you help me forget the suffering of people so that I will no longer care"

This is in utmost sincerity what I say, in sincerity. I also thank him for not hitting my with a bus or something like that yet.

I fear God. Do you?

I keep replying to the thread wasting time with useless things.

I appreciate the few followers of Jesus Christ chiming in. Nice to see. And thanks to whomever left the thread up, I see they like Christ and his teachings as I do. I am thankful.

>>837313

>like Christ

Forgive me Lord, love.

that is all. I will probably reply again in 30 minutes anyway as is my winnie the pooh thirst for vinegar apparently. I do try and live as Christ did, I hope to avoid being winnie the pooh whipped to a bloody mess for trying to seek good truth. winnie the pooh. it is hard to bear though, I weep when I read of Christ and his suffering. F*ck.

>>837314

> to seek good truth

Forgive me lord, you are the truth. For seeking good truth* in the way of our lord Christ.

I find importance in speaking without error, even though it is often riddled with typos and curse words. very Christ-like, I know.. but, whatever. I do my best.

>>837312

Well, partial truth here.. I actually also pray for him to help relieve my own suffering in seeking his way, as I f*cking hurt every single day I live.. but seeing as he has yet to do this, and his power is without question so I would know, I can only assume he has not done it.

I search for why, what I have yet to do right, as I know I am wrong in most things compared to him, (all things)

The best I can do is look at my f*cking misery as a blessing, it is hard to f*cking do, but I am not as wise as him.

basically look for the crazy person who rambles constantly and you will find a person who takes christ seriously. my opinion.

sucks.

>>837317

Can it be possible that God is trying to tell you something and you don’t know your allowed to listen to that voice? I only ask because your remind me of myself a couple of years ago, I wasn’t nearly as quick to apologize to God. I think your too hard on yourself. I’m actually joking a bit on this thread with some people, I’m sorry for doing that. There was a time I never joked, and if someone told me I would make jokes one day I would’ve called that person crazy. If God helped me I’m sure he’ll help you too. You have more humility then I did when I was in a similar situation.

If it makes you feel better then go ahead and apologize to Him as often as you like. But I highly doubt, He’s mad about your doubts. Maybe one of the problems, and I say this with hesitation, is that you take the Bible too directly. I’ve heard one or two good explanations on here so far mixed with some misunderstanding but still probably enough to clear up some things for you.

I think the problem might be that your using the Bible in a way that it shouldn’t be used. And all of us here do that to some degree. A lot of the things Jesus says require an understanding of the settings He’s in. Like you said God wants us to use our brains.

Your mind is trying to solve a formula (x+y=righteous God). If I told you what I want to tell you I might offend you. I’ll say this much. You need to trust that God is holy and just and righteous. Everything you appreciate that’s good He has created those things. Obviously he doesn’t want us to hate our families, you need to trust that that’s not what He wants from us. A lot of what Jesus has said has been misunderstood because people want the Bible to be simple and direct. In reality each book gives you another layer of information and we have to view all those layers simultaneously after we’ve read enough of it. It requires a lot of critical thinking. So try not to expect direct answers all the time.

This is why the Holy Spirit is given to true Christians. So they can use the wisdom through it to understand what is being said. Sometimes it’s easy to understand and sometimes you just know it’s not a ‘face value’ scripture because you know on the right of the equal sign the formula must always show a righteous/loving/just God. So far though, there isn’t a scripture that caused me pain that I didn’t get the answer to. Which brings me to my next point.

>>837309

>(which I advise against because you'll just find another synoptic verse you need mental gymnastics for in a vicious cycle)

OP, this post reveals a truth about the Bible that many have to come to acceptance with. Although I don’t agree with everything that’s been said (2/3 of this post is gold), this statement about a “vicious cycle” is true but the scriptures that take us on those vicious cycles are the one’s God wants us to dig in to. You can’t always assume the riddle is easy. But I assure you the mental gymnastics have a purpose and if we throw it away or ignore it we won’t get stronger. Just try to relax if you can before you pray. Apologies to Jesus and God aside, try to pray without fear of retaliation from God and know that He is never unfair and in this case He doesn’t want from a Christian what this scripture sounds like He wants. I know you want definitive proof, but there are things God only reveals through the Holy Spirit. You are not in danger of being smacked by God with these normal misunderstandings. So relax, take your time, ask what questions you want. Don’t worry if you sound crazy or not. I don’t think your crazy, just oppressed. How does the proverb go?

“Mere oppression can make the wise one act insane” - Bible (can’t remember the scripture)

>>837317

Spot on. Anguish is a good sign.

>>837318

Thanks for your post, and trust me when I say that nothing can offend me when reading words online.

Honestly, I know I am unable to lie to God, and he would know my deepest thoughts. I still struggle with faith to be honest, I pray about it. I honestly still struggle with the fact that free-will exists, if I am unsure of its existence.. only a divine intervention that would make it true without a doubt would clear it up. So, sometimes I even get stuck on this, why God wont give me proof of the divine "gift" which led to our downfall in the first place. If I am being honest, I cannot lie, I sometimes sit and have to convince myself that I am not in hell.

>>837322

I feel like the one thing I can trust God to provide, when asked for (because lets be honest, he does not provide everything asked for), is a way to help people.

I cannot think of any reason why God would not provide someone a way to help others, when so many people hurt.

I donate to food pantries, it does nothing to help long term (even pondering butterfly effect nonsense). Also, if it is Gods will, he wills the suffering no matter what. And I guess you can only try to "Save" souls.. but, if I cant even feel saved, maybe that is why I am not given the chance to help others.. maybe I have yet to accept that this life is suffering, maybe the reward really is in heaven. Maybe happiness and joy is just evil.

f*cks me up. sorry. I do love christ, I think he is the best thing I have found to latch onto at least. Again, I cannot lie, I struggle.

I mean, I have done more than donate.. I have spent years brainstorming ways to do GOOD THAT HELPS.. and I am not as stupid as I sound, I just cannot see a damn thing worth doing.. sure.. help someone temporarily.. but what about evil as a whole? Are we to wait another 2000 years? Is history even real? Do I want to delve into some weird gnostic bullsh1t.. of course not. I try to have faith. I want to do good, it seems impossible.. so I continue to read his word and figure out why.

I mean I even tried winnie the pooh working for the suicide hotline, but you need a winnie the pooh principalities badge of winnie the pooh science to be allowed to TALK TO PEOPLE TRYING TO KILL THEMSELVES

cant volunteer anywhere where people actually hurt without some bullsh1t degree.. cant winnie the pooh1ng do anything but drop cans of food off and chit chat online.

evil a55 world. I am stumped.

>>837318

>How does the proverb go?

>“Mere oppression can make the wise one act insane” - Bible (can’t remember the scripture)

Something like that, but, I mean I dont feel oppressed. I have what I need to survive, I am thankful.. but I have felt f*cking more lost than usual past month or so. But, I have felt worse. So I would not say I am oppressed, just frustrated.. my goal has been to f*cking help people for a long time now. It just seems futile, and I try not to give up. I don't pray for much.

I mean, ecclesiastes, joy in toil. I dont even get that. so i figure maybe all i can do is try to help others have their joy. but maybe joy is really evil

all i know is thinking gets me nowhere, and its hard to accept that knowing how people are easily controlled by similar methods.. but. s—. ill stop posting for now. forget why i even made the thread.

>>837322

>I sometimes sit and have to convince myself that I am not in hell.

You’re exhausted it seems. I’ve also had this thought in my head. It’s a bit of a product of exhaustion. But it sounds like you need to trust your instincts more. For instance today with your question, your instincts are telling you the way that scripture is interpreted is not right. But, your view of how one has to use the Bible goes against your instincts in this particular case. You need to trust that your feelings of what’s just and unjust is given to you by God and I think many of us make the mistake of assuming our thoughts are just our minds creating a belief system in order to survive. If your sorry for something as simple like doubting God, I’m assuming your in God’s favor. If so then the Holy Spirit is in you but you have to understand how it speaks, it’s voice is not like a humans, much of the time it’s an idea or thought that comes from deep within, so deep that we confuse it as our own thoughts. When I was in anguish I learned that much of that anguish was the Holy Spirit telling me, “Yes! that thing your saying, that’s the truth. Believe it!”

Maybe your at a point where you need to view the Bible as a tutor like Paul said. Not as a book to be followed by every letter written, as it’s written. Personally I don’t think the Bible contradicts itself, but I do suspect it of manipulations in translation of certain words and deletion of books and etc. But, I still use it as my only earthly source of God’s word. I either use the Bible to correct a belief or no other book. But when it came to my depression and creating a more personal relationship with God and getting to know His personality, It was the realization that the voice of the Holy Spirit was speaking and I was brushing it off as a coping mechanism in my brain this whole time. The Spirit wants me to use the Bible, but when I hit a point that I read a scripture that I don’t want to accept the face value on because it grieves me, the Holy Spirit helps me to see the error of how I’m accepting it and it’s proper meaning.

I’m trying to keep these posts short. I don’t want to write too much and loose the point. Don’t worry this is not hell, but because it’s the final days, it’s close to it.

>>837323

You’ve sacrificed enough on other it seems to me. Right now you need to worry about your own spiritual health. When I was at the start of my depression I was burning the candle on both ends doing ‘good deeds’ for my church and people. I thought if I did more the answers would come sooner. The answers did come but I didn’t know I was allowed to think for myself, since many of the thoughts of a true Christian are God’s thoughts through the Holy Spirit. I never listened to my instincts that were developed through that spirit. It took me years to figure out that God was speaking the whole time. The cure for my depression was the answers to the questions I was asking. I got those answers a long time before I even realized I had them. The answers where so fair. I’m grateful for them. Not one answer I disagreed with, all of them took weight off my shoulders. And with the loss of all that useless weight, carrying the cross became a very possible thing.

>>837328

Thanks, and I appreciate any and all you write because I can tell you are genuine.

As for believing my thoughts to be divinely inspired, I would either have to believe in some gnostic thing, or think that God cares only for me and no one else. Because I ask him to show me how to help people for years and years now, I refuse to believe he will still hang out in my thoughts of the mundane.. but i do not know.

When I hear of God speaking to people in the bible, it usually accompanies some grand gesture of his presence, I personally do not believe his glory and grace to be anything less than audible, and honestly I hope that never happens because then I will need the funny farm considering I am not anywhere near worthy to hear his voice.

But, I digress..

as for

> it’s the final days, it’s close to it.

Well, I have heard that before. But, I have also prayed for a flood many times lol maybe its time.

>>837329

> When I was at the start of my depression

heh, well, i have spent the last decade… in.. pretty bad shape. i have seen worse, yet it always feels worse. hence the only thing i see even worth living for is helping others, since I myself cannot experience anything that resembles happiness. I have tried everything, I am no youngin.

>>837270

No such thing as a Christian state or Christian money. Christian shouldn't be a label one can slap over anything of the world.

>>837327

I’ll pray for you. But I think you should tend to yourself for a while. Stop worrying about others. When you get back on your feet you’ll be able to help them better. For now you need to accept your time is better spent on yourself and getting to know God with more confidence. You seem to have a very cold view of how He really is. If you met Him you’d realize He’s very misunderstood. We are made in His image, that also means that whatever He values, we also value. Whatever He hates, we hate. Whatever is Good that we value we got from Him. He taught us values, so you don’t have to worry about Him telling us to abandon those values. You will have to use some practical logic and prayer to see what little things you can figure out first. But you should absolutely stop giving your time to people that aren’t your family till you come to a more confident understanding of Jesus and God (assuming your family is not putting undue burden on your shoulders).

>>837330

Obviously not all our thoughts are divinely inspired. But the anguish comes from a Holy source when no serious sin is committed. I thought the same about divine teachings, that’s why it took me so long. Sometimes we have to be dragged to our final steps before we realize that we’ve been taught wrong on the matter. But if I can save you from that I’ll try.

The Holy Spirit speaks in groanings and emotions and feelings. Many people hear it differently and it creates different gifts in different people. A good start for you would be to read up on this Spirit in the New Testament, every reference of it, then see how you view it then.

>>837333

>>837334

I hear you, but if logic and reasoning ever helped me, I wouldn't be hitting my damn knees talking to my wall for an hour a day for years now. I dont feel like I am heard by God or speaking to him, I feel like he is mostly off helping people do evil by the looks of it. Again, I cannot lie, all I can do is admit I do not know, tell the truth, and pray for mercy and forgiveness for my thin faith and try to make up for it with diligence. I have nothing else to offer, he is all powerful, he is good, he has to be. I will either never understand or die an old man in pain while the world rejoices in its falling further from grace. I am committed to prayer for what is good, committed to seeking his guidance in what is righteous, and committed to the Socratic method of wisdom, which to me is the only righteous method available to men, knowing that wisdom is knowing you have it not. I know if there is a God, I am a literal baby who has lives a microsecond to him. I will not presume to know anything, I will not presume I can lie to him, I feel like nothing will get better and I know I can pray for help. I keep doing this, often feeling foolish. This is ok. I thank you for your conversation though, and glad you feel fulfilled, I am envious if I am being truthful .

>>837335

There definitely is a God. Although I’ll admit I’ve never been able to live a day not believing He exists, but I’ve used my share of profanity directed at Him while in the worst of it. His response after I knew Him better and apologized was, “Yeah, I would’ve cussed me out too if I believed I was what you thought I was at the time, but know you know, so don’t ever do that again”. I don’t know the details of your life, neither is it my business, but if He took me out of my situation I’m sure somehow He’ll be able to reach you as well. There’s a lot He forgives us for when we’re in a situation of not knowing Him personally.

I think one of the earliest realizations I had that there was a voice was this one particular time I was crushed by a scripture’s surface interpretation. I finally had it trying to fight the scripture and I decided, “Well God, fine, if this is you then it’s you, and we can not be close”. It was a crushing blow and I don’t know what happened but some strange form of comfort took over to dull the pain and it’s hard to remember why but I just knew that the scripture in question was not what it seemed. I don’t know how I knew, but that was when I realized something is speaking. After that it was a slow walk uphill that got faster by the month. Then came some priceless gifts that pushed me the rest of the way. Maybe that anguish of yours has to reach a fullness. I hope God does the same for you when you reach that point. It wasn’t easy to navigate through it but I thanked Him for it in the end. It was as if the future me was giving God permission to put me through what He did. God won in the end, I won when He won too. It’s strange.

That talking to the wall thing your doing, same here, that’s an important thing your doing although you may not realize it. I’ll let you figure that one by yourself, but there’s a reason you are lead to do that. It’s one of my most favorite hobbies till this day, I do that in my mind though. I don’t like when people interrupt me while I’m thinking to myself. Isolations where the voice can be heard best. This will be my last post for the day. I’ll pray for you.

>>837339

What are your thoughts on Daniel ?

0dff82 here

>>837414

The prophet or his book?

>>837416

His prophecy.

>>837425

It has many parts. Overall I believe his prophecy to be of God, and each chapter reviles something to be applied to some chapter before it. Is there a specific part that comes to mind?

>>837429

>reviles

*reveals*

>>837429

The part where michael basically tells him to rest and "go his own way" until the end.

>>837431

That’s a very good part, was it Michael or Gabriel? I believe Daniel died at that moment. Because he was told to go and after his “rest” (in death) he will be resurrected and stand in his lot (midst of his rewards) in the end of days. Later on in the Bible in revelation it seems to reveal that the resurrection will take place right before the destruction of Armageddon. So if I understand it correctly Daniel will get to see evil be destroyed. If I understood it correctly.

>>837431

I think there’s enough evidence to show it was Gabriel. Gabriel seems to be the one delivering the prophesies to Daniel, Gabriel was at one point held off a short while by a demon referred to as “the prince of Persia”, till Michael came and fought it so Gabriel can deliver his message to Daniel.

>>837306

>I am not righteous enough to take liberties in conclusions so easily.. as you do when you say things like "What should we conclude from this, except what Jesus told us subsequently in Luke"

Yeah it's not really taking liberties to say we should conclude what Jesus does in the next verses right after. The reason for all of this is I want the light of God's understanding to come to you. Every word of God is pure, as it says in Proverbs 30:5, and he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

>>837288

Give to God what is God’s (all)

Give to Casear what is Caesars (tax, money)

Money means nothing compared to everything in the spiritual sense.

And operating under the Roman system, there were things that were made possible because of taxes (roads, security etc) and rightfully belongs to the Emperor. So pay the tax if you use the States services, and give everything and all to God

>>837286

720344, thanks for all your posts.

>>838081

My pleasure, but the credit for anything that helped belongs to God. Thank The Father in prayer.

>>837269

>render unto Caesar what is Caesar's

It's a joke, he's mocking in a manner the Jews who questioned him about paying taxes, whether it was permissable to pay taxes to the state or to the church.

If you understand what is Caesar's and what is God's you will understand what Christ has taught here.

>Hate your family

I'm going to answer on the premise that you're talking about Luke 12:53 & Luke 14:26

The word "hate" in Luke 14:26 is the greek word "μισέω"(miseó) which is a verb, meaning to hate, detest, love less or esteem less.

It can be understood that because Christ is speaking to a large crowd (Luke 14:25) so it can be understood that Jesus is speaking in parables, as was his manner (Mark 4:33-34)

Speaking plainly, it's clear that Christ's intent is that any who would follow Him must place their love of God first (Matthew 22:37-38) before their family, before your mother, father, brother, sister, son, daughter, uncle, aunt, whoever.

>>837269

The Pharisees were basically trying to bait him.

>Should we pay taxes?

If he said 'yes', then he would've fallen out of favor of peasants and common folk which made up most of his following. If he said 'no', then he'd be seen as a threat by the Roman authorities. He knows that all things belong to God, and he said exactly that without falling for their lies. He knows that Caesar himself belongs to God, yet I guess he didn't see it fit to reveal that to them at that time.