/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>834961

>what difference does Jesus' messianism make? Seems like in the New Testament he is simply teaching an ethos of humility

>I don't see how it creates any finality.

Are you only asking about teaching or the big picture role of Jesus in the NT? He definitely didn't just teach humility, the entire reason he came into the world was to die as sacrifice so that we can be saved.

<John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

>>834964

Hm ok, but if that is the case, isn't it ironic that Christians feel less assured of their salvation than Jews!?

>>834969

What makes you think that?

>>834970

Jews emphatically assert that every one (Jews, because non-Jews aren't people) gets a place in Gan Eden no matter what. Whereas Christians (by which I mean Catholics) are constantly fretting.

>>834971

>Christians (by which I mean Catholics)

There's your problem

>>834971

The video you posted is virtually Catholic, I thought it was Catholic from the pic.

>>834973

Stainer was Anglican

I sang it in my Baptist seminary chorale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stainer?wprov=sfla1

What says catholic about that picture of a male choir in robes? It might be, the video is just the audio recording on a still image

>>834976

Yes once I heard it it is clearly Anglican aka Catholic-lite.

But so again, from the original Jewish perspective, as long as someone wasn't already worried about their salvation, I don't see what big difference his messianism makes to them?

>>834979

>Anglican aka Catholic-lite.

Confirmation bias meme take

>from the original Jewish perspective

You have to remember that those calling themselves Jews today are not practicing the religion of the old testament. The old testament saints were saved by faith just like us.

The Messiah was the means by which they hoped to be saved in the future, like the prophecy foretold. Analogously, we look forward for His second coming for the new heavens and new earth to come.

>>834981

>Calling Anglicanism Catholic-lite is confirmation bias

Please explain to the rest of us how is "via media" not "Catholic-lite" by design.

>>834981

Do you not see where the question is coming from at all?

>>834979

Are you asking what difference does Christ make to the lives of people who think they can live without him?

If so, I guess none.

But perhaps we aren't making ourselves understood, so re-elaborate if that's the case.

>>835026

Ok then, sure, why would someone believe that they absolutely cannot live without him?

>>834961

The original Jewish perspective IS the New Testament. What you call Judaism now doesn't even have a temple/tabernacle or sacrifices and doesn't follow the core of what Judaism taught about them. And the only way for Jews to even understand how this was lost goes back to Jesus himself, his sacrifice, and his prophecy that the Temple would be destroyed.

>>834961

>from the original Jewish perspective, what difference does Jesus' messianism make?

By original Jewish perspective you mean the people who lived during the time the Bible was being written?

In the book of Genesis at the beginning it was promised that the seed of the woman would crush the serpent's head, later on Job confessed belief in the resurrection in Job 14:12-14 and this Redeemer in Job 19:25-26. So Jesus is the savior of mankind, the descendants of Adam.

In the middle of Genesis it was prophesied that Abraham's seed would inherit the gates of his enemies (Genesis 22:17). Note that this was not a plural seed but a singular person, the one seed of Abraham, as the apostle Paul observeth in Galatians 3:16. The inheritance pertains to Christ alone, and to us through him (Galatians 4:7).

Also toward the end of Genesis, it was prophesied that the gathering of the people would be unto him, a descendant of Judah (Genesis 49:10). We see the affirmation of this also with the king David covenant (2 Samuel 7:12-15, Acts 2:30). Jesus is also the One who fulfills the prophecies concerning the Psalms and makes them right, so that all that was written in the law and prophets would be fulfilled.

For example, Psalm 8 says:

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Hebrews 2:6-8 says

>But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

>7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

>8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

>9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

We know that according to the word of God (mentioned repeatedly) now Jesus Christ is at the right hand of the Father, fulfilling as it says in Psalm 110.

—The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jesus is making this true right now because he is at the right hand of the Father. However, there will come a time when he will return, as it says. And this is the finality when he returns, because it will be in order to judge every thing and set things in order here. The condemnation is under the old Law that all have sinned, and those who ignored his sacrifice and salvation as the Messiah will have to be judged for their sins and found guilty, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Yet if the Lord Jesus is acknowledged and His word believed, He will be a mediator to those in that day. For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

As Jesus said in the Gospel of John:

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

>>835029

You would need to say what you would take for answer. 'Why' can be very deceptive and easily could we run in circles like dogs. 'Why' do you believe X is a deceiving question.

I can vouch my life has been transformed ever since I became Christian and most Christians may say the same, in a different sense and different intensity.

Christ has become so fundamental to my being it has become difficult to express how would like be without faith in his victory over death.

I guess, in a nutshell, that I believe I am profoundly spiritually sick and that this sickness shall not end in death but has been given to me so the glory of God may be made manifest (Read John 9). Were not for this, I would collapse spiritually.

Perhaps you were asking in the OP "why hasn't all been completed if the Messiah came", the answer given by John 9 would be "so that the glory of God may be made manifest in our sickness".