/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>834869

>Cardinal Ravasi said the practice was "anti-religious". "Religion celebrates life, but here you have death," he said.

Your worldy religion celebrates life, but in Truth death is merely a ticket to the Father.

>>834876

ok gnostic

>but in Truth death is merely a ticket to the Father.

aerial toll houses*

>>834877

>aerial toll houses

Western nonsense

>>834878

A little of both. Going through levels of "initiation", and "purging", and trial has it's roots in all mystery cults. Be it in the symbols of the Labyrinth of Ancient Greece or cult of Mithras in Rome. In either case, it's anathema to the good news of Jesus Christ, which is freely given. It wouldn't be "good news" in the first place if God gave everyone that much of a run around.

I won't single out Mexicans too much, since Europeans pervert the gospel all the same (like for the above reasons).

>>834881

>Going through levels of "initiation", and "purging", and trial has it's roots in all mystery cults.

On a side note, what is Baptism if not an initiation into the church and purging of demons and sins? Heathens do not have a monopoly in this.

What I, particularly, see as a true problem in the folk understanding of Christianity is the wrong idea that purpose of church rituals is to pay one's debts with God. One couldn't even begin to repay his sins.

>>834887

Baptism is not initiation in that sense. It was originally just a cleansing ritual. No different than the cleansing of, say, cups and bowls for the Temple. That is, to take something normal, and setting it aside for holy use. Thus it is for a person too. Nothing special that the cup or bowl or the person had to go through to be set aside. God simply called them for himself. If anything, the real "work" of holiness only came after. Not before (as in an initiation). For the new believer in the church, it was confession to Jesus Christ and accepting his atonement that made them members. His blood and hard work did that. Not theirs.

>>834887

For the record, I understand your concern at the end too. I feel like I somewhat ignored that, but we appear to be of the same mind on that.

>>834881

I don't get this "good news" attitude.

The Lord became human, was born into this world, tried to teach us, and was slandered, beaten, scourged horribly and without mercy, mocked, whipped and made to carry the cross to his death (the cross being the burden of all our sins), was nailed up there and then died after three hours of suffering. Most of the Apostles and disciples abandoned him to die there.

This is good news? It's horrible. Yes, he died so he can judge us, the living and the dead, for our sins… but Good news? Our sins did this, how is it something to be happy about? Our Lord and Our God suffered our sins, and it's Good News?

>>834889

>For the new believer in the church, it was confession to Jesus Christ and accepting his atonement that made them members.

Well, we're getting too rigorist but one will get Baptized due to interest in the faith - as you said correctly. Though Christ does command people to be Baptized, nonetheless.

>>834897

It is. You talk about the passion as if he never rose. You have forgotten that Christ is risen! and death is defeated.

>>834900

>You have forgotten that Christ is risen! and death is defeated.

Indeed! Please, >>834897, listen and remember this.

Pretty much the same thing as orthodox Catholicism. Roman Catholics will say their Pope rejects these cults but it doesn't really matter since orthodox Roman Catholics still worship a host of deities, including Mary whom they consider to be a Mother Goddess (they even give her the title Queen of Heaven which is the same title given to Asherah). There is no difference, folk Catholicism and orthodox Catholicism is pagan idolatry all the same and not Christian.

>>834906

Thanks Baptist bro… I debunked this as Catholism in the first reply to Op, and you just ignore that and repeat the lies about the Catholic Church and add on even more false equivalencies.

I'm kinda disappointed in your post. I hoped for better.

>>834903

>>834900

You talk like it wasn't a sacrifice at all. The Lord was tortured and died for our sins. We know of his agony in the garden.

How can you think that is a good thing? To Catholics, these are the "Sorrowful Mysteries". We don't take the sacrifice of Our Lord so lightly or pretend it was not a sacrifice at all. Our sins are very painful to God who is perfect. That cross represents our sins. God could barely carry it.

And for those who won't repent of sin, there will be no place for them in heaven.

>>834939

Is this what you do on Pascha when others proclaim that "Christ is Risen!" Do you smugly criticize them about how they don't appreciate Christ's sacrifice? Or do you even go to any church? Because I can't imagine anyone being familiar with any church life and talking like this about the Resurrection. You're even doing it just days before Pentecost. If you were in a church, then everyone from Orthodox to Catholic to Protestant laity and clergy alike would have taken you to the side a long time ago and admonished you for this. It's completely absurd.

The scriptures themselves tell you not to revel in death, yet here you are being a doomer.

"O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" - 1 Cor 15:55

>>834939

Sin is self-flagellation, not an offense. You are more prideful of your sins than those who do not even know of theirs.

This reminds of the last Gospel reading we had in Liturgy, death now works for the Lord and not against him. This disease that is sin is kept in the world so the glory of God may be made manifest. Not because we or our parents sin (John 9:1-3). I remember reading in the Hexameron that St. Basil thinks death is in the world so much fruit may be ripened and harvested, too.

Christ makes death holy, is what I meant in my first comment, because we are like blind men through which his glory shall be made manifest. Even the worst part of our lives may be made holy in Christ, is that not a joyous thing?

Santa muerte is dark magic stuff. Nothing to do with Christianity.

>>834866

>Santa Muerte

Terrible. An utter corruption of Catholicism. Worshipped mainly by drug cartels and murderers. Inexcusable idolatry (even among Catholics, and that's a high bar).

>East Asian Syncretism

How the winnie the pooh do people not understand the "One God" thing. b—-es worship winnie the pooh tree spirits and then go to mass. (One might think this stems from a deeper Catholic problem). Still, less bad. At least the recognize their death god isn't an saint.

>Padre Pio type s—

Catholics should really stop telling people who do idolatry to "read the lives of the saints". They seem to be getting the wrong impression. Please just tell them to worship God exclusively for a while, and then if they want to do saint stuff then they can.

Personally, I don't give a s— about if someone does saints or not. As long as you value God over Mary or Padre Pio or whomever the winnie the pooh I'm pretty sure you'll get in regardless (if it's just faith which saves, you've got it in spades. You might have to sort out with God why you prayed to Mary so much). But a lot of these cults can't even do that.

>>835763

Reading about the saints, good idea, always humbling.

Padre Pio since you asked.

http://caccioppoli.com/'%202014%20Padre%20Pio.pdf

I wonder why individuals who were showered with ludicrous amount of grace appear in the Catholic church but not on man made denomination X Y Z.

>>835782

I guess you didn't actually read my post. I was saying that you shouldn't tell new converts from polytheism to read the saints, because then they fall into thinking it's okay to have other gods because they're being told to pray to the saints.

As well, I wasn't asking about Padre Pio. I'm quite well aware you ascribe Christ-like divinity to this contentious rando. I was saying that with regards him and other fan-favorite saints, they start to eclipse Mary or Christ, or they start to be identified with pagan deities. And people like that do show up in protestantism. We just also recognize that they are human beings, and we don't pray to them.

If Padre Pio is a saint or not is literally none of my concern. I could not care less. But he shouldn't be compared to Christ, Mary, or some pagan nonsense like he consistently is.

>>835842

No priest or catechism told me that it was okay to have other gods because we pray for saints. Never happened! A good Catholic would lose all respect for anyone who told them that's what the church has taught them.

No good Catholic has ever said any Catholic Saint had "Christ like divinity". Not ever.

The only people who compare saints to God are the heretics trying to smear the Catholic faith and lead souls away from it with such falsehoods.