/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>833853

>(even though you are in more denial of your own book)

No we are not, the quran isn't changed or corrupted like the bible with 56 or 72 books is truly the word of god because it defends his word, there is no holy trinity or anything of that sort nor is Jesus god or died on the Crucifixion.

Also their is nothing to debunk unless you want to debunk your own bible.

e Bible has passages showing that Jesus ( ) was not God, so for whoever says that Jesus was God, it's like he doesn't know what's in his own Scriptures!

Gospel of Matthew, 26: 39) And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will.”

Gospel of Mark, 14: 36) And he said, “Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

Gospel of John: 5: 30) “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me.”

Don't try debunking just yet because I am have not finished all my points.

>>833854

>>833854

Fine I will let you finish your points as for matthew reality seems to disagree and with what ever fantasy you believed in.

Jesus died thats a fact,

Jews (some of them) admit they killed him.

Historical fact that he did likely die as a political rebel.

Our bible say how he is killed

Look at the catholic church that Jesus first established and how he died and resurrected, demons fear his name and other paranormal activity constant spiritual attacks against people who leave the new age for trying to be with God, if Christianity was false this would not happen at all the demons admit he died some holly wood jew admit they would kill Jesus again if given the chance and that the talmud is saying Jesus is burning in hell and do not give me the

>THEIR CORRUPT

Nonsense and you know it to be nonsense because you cannot even deliever on it and I know you said the bible has scientific errors

>completely false btw is the other way around

The word of god has not changed and if it did change are you claiming god to be a liar? Are you talking the bible or torah of allah?

Even if it is it usually gets burried while the actual word remains and is mostly translations, I can point it out for the quran as well and the errors it has.

>>833857

Forgot to post video

>>833852

3)

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

John 14:15

"If you love me, keep my commands

(You will see how abandoning the law serves a father, not the Father of Jesus)

The Father of Jesus sent previous Prophets (Abraham, Moses, David) with law and guidance.

He wouldn't ask you to then throw it all away.

Someone wants you to throw all of that as unnecessary because all is fulfilled by the divine sacrifice which is "righteous".

4)

John 8:40

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

John 8:43

Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

John 8:44

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Is it murder or divine sacrifice?

Did Jesus pray to be saved?

Was he saved?

(Luke 22:41)

He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,

(Luke 22:42)

"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

(Luke 22:43)

An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.

(Psalm 37:40)

The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him.

(Hebrews 5:7)

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

5)

Mark 12:32

"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

Mark 12:33

To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Mark 12:34

When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

Did the man recognize Jesus as God or divine sacrifice?

"You are not far from the kingdom of God."

In the parable of unmerciful servant, does the King kill himself in order to forgive?

Ezekiel 18:30

"Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.

Isaiah 53

6)

Matthew 7:21

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Matthew 7:23

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

a) Not entering the kingdom of heaven is linked to what.. (but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.)

b) Those people did all of their works in the name of whom…

Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Three times its mentioned.

c) What is the reply they get?

And why is that?

(but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.)

7)

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Revealed by God or men?

Mark 8:36

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

My Father, My God.

If the Father is the Only True God, is Jesus "also God" or "the one sent"?

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 13:16

Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

- Attributing things to God that are not befitting is not from Jesus.

- Abandoning the law is not from Jesus.

- Murdering Jesus and wanting his blood is not from Jesus.

- Insulting God massive mercy and forgiveness is not from Jesus.

Those who claim to love Moses yet throw what he says out the window will stand for their judgement.

John 5:45

"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

Those who claim to love Jesus yet throw what he says out the window will stand for their judgement.

Matthew 7:21-23

A sheep, a follower of Jesus will follow Jesus.

A wolf in sheep's clothing is served Jesus blood and is satisfied.

Yet claim to love Jesus when they don't honor Jesus nor do they honor God.

>>833861

What does that verse prove?

>>833857

>d the bible has scientific errors

How is it scientifically more accurate than the quran?

>>833875

Mainly because because the bible had a lot of scientific facts before human had discovered them like earth being held by nothing and it was round before it was theorized it was round

How blood gave the flesh life and before people discovered that they were blood letting which has caused problems etc… Etc…

Its the quran that has more scientific errors than the bible maybe if you weren't biased nor dishonest you would realize that.

>>833852

I shall make no points regarding the first. It *is* a mystery.

As well, that whole portion of the text was discussing how we ought be ready, for we never know when it shall arrive. Taken in context, it is a sensible thing to say that *nobody* knows.

Regarding your second point, many Christians do not believe in inherited sin. Many believe that a sinful nature is given from father to son, which causes men to sin but is not itself sin. As well, the LORD was here making a point against Israel, who would blame their fathers for the LORD's wrath kindled against them. God was here saying that Israel was itself, in this generation, evil and worthy of destruction. (cont.)

>>833860

>>833878

If a man is taught that there are many forces (objects pushing, gravitational attraction, friction, tension, electric force, magnetic force) and understands it, he is understands how forces work.

But if a man then learns there are only 4 forces (electromagnetic, weak, strong, and gravity) and understands that, he understands how the forces he learned before came about. He may still use those forces, as an useful approximation of how they work, but he knows that they are not "real" forces.

In the same way, we learn of the 270~ laws of the Torah, and we understand the Law. But we learn the Law of Christ (Love God with all your Heart, and Love your neighbor as yourself), and we understand where those laws come from.

Thus, if we follow the Law of Christ, we keep the Law. As well, following the Law of Christ oftentimes may be approximated by the Law of Moses. So we abide by purity, justice in legal matters, and shunning idols even if Christ has taught us what is behind the Law.

Further, some laws of the patriarchs are Covenant laws, applying only to one people with whom God has made a special contract. (e.g. dietary laws, clothing laws, etc.). We are not Jews, nor Israelites or Judaens, nor Hebrews. We come from the New Covenant. The old Covenant was that God would bless the nations through them, and this was fulfilled with Christ. The New Covenant is that, so long as we have faith in the Risen Christ, we are given new hearts so we may truly love God and be forgiven of our sins.

>>833860

Is it murder if a man is willing to die? Are the men who kill him murderers? If God ordains a man to die, is He a murderer?

Christ prayed, for He was Man and no man wishes to feel pain. But He humbly went, though He was able to strike holy fury upon them, He went like a Lamb, fulfilling the prophesy:

"He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth."

Or do you deny that Isaiah was a prophet? Do you deny his teaching of the Suffering Servant?

The LORD weeped at Christs death far more than his mother. I tell you, neither Father nor Son wished for this to happen, but each was willing to make the sacrifice that even Abraham could not make, "For God so Loved The World".

Christ praises the Scribe, for the Scribe realizes that Christ's Law is more important than Moses' law. The Pharisees, who valued lesser law and loved not their neighbors nor truly God, would be here criticized.

But of course, Christ says "Not far" not "in".

As well, for your verse from Ezekiel, the Israelites *did* have measures in place that they should be forgiven of their sins and spared from wrath. But these measures were made foul in God's sight by their continued breaking of the Covenant. The Prophets were the last line saying "Repent! You may yet be Forgiven!" for if they truly stopped their worship of Idols and began to sacrifice once again to the LORD, then He would spare them. We can see this happen with King Hezekiah (who was very cool, big fan). But they returned to their ways, and they would always do so until their hearts were made pure by Christ.

Sacrifices of rams were fine, once. But eventually, Divine Blood needed to be shed.

cont. in a bit, gonna shower

>>833880

back

>>833862

The one who becomes a Christian, according to our belief, becomes, in the end, Christ-Like. The one who embraces Christ fully shall not be turned away, for he is the one who does the will of the Father. And it comes mainly from this: humility. The one who does good deeds in the name of Christ shall go to Heaven and be paraded and crowned. As well, the one who, at the last, goes with shame and sorrow at his sin, and with humility and faith in Christ, shall be welcomed as well with subtler love. For think ye not that the long suffering drunk may be loved by God, that he is not indeed suffering under the shackles of the Prince of this World? But the one who has once done good, but has become proud and begins to despise God in his heart, he shall be humbled.

Now, for your final point, which I assume after all this is your doubtfulness of the Trinity. Now, I shall respond to each verse in turn, discounting verses which seem to me irrelevant:

*1 John

You seem very skeptical of the Epistles in general. I shall address your general concerns after this

*John 20:17

You forget Christ's previous words "I and the father are one".

*John 17:3

I ought respond the same to this. Also, doesn't Christ have some very precise wording in the second place. "Not Greater", but nothing about less than.

Now you cite John 20:17 as example against the trinity, when not 5 verses later He imparts the spirit on them. As well, you place verses of John against 1 John, when in all likelihood they were written by the same author. Do you think he contradicts himself?

As well, from the Matthew:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"

I grieve you not for your ignorance, nor for your accusations. Nor shall I grieve you if you take my words as accusation. For in discussion and discourse, that is often the way of things. But let us think of the word, which says "Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still; teach the righteous and they will add to their learning."

If any of my brothers and sisters see in my defense a flaw or folly, please point it out. However, I pray you be civil and not overly quarrel regarding denominational matters. This is a matter that a man be educated as to why we believe what we do, not an excuse for infighting.

1) You already explained the answer yourself, God humbled himself.

2)

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. Eccl. 7:20

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. -Romans 5:12-19

3) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6

4) Is it murder or divine sacrifice?

But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. - John 15:22-25

>Did Jesus pray to be saved?

You already explained the answer in Luke 22:42

>Was he saved?

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. - Acts 2:23-24

5) No point was made

6) No point was made

7)

>If the Father is the Only True God, is Jesus "also God" or "the one sent"?

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

>>833882

>>833877

I am assuming you think the quran is flat?

For those who say that the earth is depicted as flat in the Quran as a desperate attempt to disprove it, they ought to refer to the oldest dictionaries of Arabic (like mufradaat al Quran) which refer to the word urd as meaning that which is below your feet as well as the whole planet. So when Allah refers to 'spreading the earth' as he does in many places in the Quran using different arabic words like maddadnah, farashna and 'wal urd kayo suthiat' this is clearly referring to the crust of the earth which is below our feet, and had this not been the case the scholars above would have said the earth was flat based on these verses.

Oh like the earth is round then why did the bible contradict it?

Matthew 4:8 says, “Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory.”

In Job 9:6 it says, "Who shakes the earth out of its place, and its pillars (ydwmu) tremble." The LXX says, "Who shakes the earth under heaven from its foundations and its pillars (stuloi) totter." In Psalm 75:3 it says, "The earth and all its inhabitants are melting away; I set firm its pillars (ydwmu)." The LXX says, "I have strengthened its pillars (stuloi)." In I Samuel 2:8 it says, "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s and he had set the world upon them." The Hebrew word for pillar is yqxm. The root is qx meaning "to melt" (BDB 1980, 848). Therefore, yqxm means, "a molten like pillar." The only other place it occurs is in I Samuel 14:5 referring to a mountain. Probably the pillars of the earth are the same thing as the foundations of the earth which were mountains.

If you cannot answer this I don't mind coming in.

>>833880

>>833884

As for you I am going to come back and explain is not going to be as long, but is one more thing I am going have to do before responding.

Although you are making some (as much as I hate to say it) convincing arguments.

>>833898

>ou cannot answer this I don't mind coming in.

I need to correct my grammar *I don't mind anyone else coming in.

>>833898

I'm actually >>833882 but I have no idea what you are saying so im gonna try to translate

>I am assuming you think the quran is flat?

I'm assuming you think the quran depicts the world as flat?

actually wait i looked up one of the phrases in your thing and you're copypasta-ing from here:

https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=xQDU-eZ8dYg

I know you aren't good at english but please tell us when you are copying arguments. Also that weird hebrew etymology doesn't really work, since the actual hebrew word is not "ydwmu" or "yqxm" but "ammud" or "ayin-mem-vav-dalet". if it helps, its related to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%B9%D9%85%D9%88%D8%AF#Arabic

and if you care so much about mountains, consider Quran 31:10, where the mountains are put in place "lest the earth shift us". Mountains do not stop geologic activity, and likely accelerate it.

But let us cease scientific speech. it is useless. Poetry infuses our books. We speak only of theology.

>>833898

Bro did you seriously copy paste it from a flawed debater (the muslims unironically thinks he is good at debating despite they are many flaws in his arguments?) I mean no offense, but this type of argument has already been addressed.

Also another thing that I found it is it true that in your qu'ran that allah this so called "omnipotent" fears the title of king of kings?

>>833904

Back

1 Kings 20:35-37 New International Version (NIV)

A Prophet Condemns Ahab

35 By the word of the Lord one of the company of the prophets said to his companion, “Strike me with your weapon,” but he refused.

36 So the prophet said, “Because you have not obeyed the Lord, as soon as you leave me a lion will kill you.” And after the man went away, a lion found him and killed him.

37 The prophet found another man and said, “Strike me, please.” So the man struck him and wounded him.

Mind explaining this?

Anyway going to come back before I can type up a new argument.

Question: why would God do this to us?

>>833992

Do what can you be specific.

>>833988

I have literally no idea why you posted this. please respond to the arguments against your previous points.

Nonetheless, when we look at the context of that verse, it is clearly being used as an illustration. The prophet mentioned had previously said that God would deliver the Arameans unto the Israelites. But king Ahab let the Arameans go after capturing them. The prophet then used your passage to illustrate how God commanded Ahab to destroy the Arameans, but Ahab showed mercy, thus disobeying God and earning him punishment.

Don't know what that was meant to prove, or where you pulled that from. Try applying your famous Muslim textual analysis.

>>834041

God sent Jesus but he was ridiculed and accused of lies.

John 10:20

Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

>>834041

There were those who claimed to love Moses and yet threw what Moses said out the window.

God sent Muhammad but he was ridiculed and accused of lies.

There are those who claim to love Jesus and yet throw what Jesus said out the window.

John 16:13

But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

If this was about the holy spirit, then isn't the holy spirit supposed to be God?

"He will not speak on his own"

Does God not speak of his own?

Is God commanded what to speak?

We see the holy spirit does not know the hour.

Matthew 24:36

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

A few questions come to mind:

- God knows the hour and does not know the hour?

- Though divine, the son says (I of myself can do nothing), does not know the hour, is the human side in Jesus overtaking the divine side in Jesus?

- The reason often stated for the son not having knowledge is that he humbled himself, what about the holy spirit, did it humble itself too?

From 3 in 1, only One knows.

Only the Father knows.

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

My Father, My God.

Except you insist there are gods besides the One True God.

How many true gods can there be when there is only One True God, which is the Father.

If the Father is the Only True God, is Jesus "also God" or "the one sent"?

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 13:16

Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

You keep ignoring Jesus and then blame God for sending another Prophet to guide you?

If you are looking for guidance then you will be guided.

The only deceit is eaten up by the wolves following their father (John 8:40-44), that is because while they claim to love Jesus, they desire his blood and ignore what he says.

Wolves in sheep's clothing, pretending to be followers of Jesus.

Those who claim to love Moses yet throw what he says out the window will stand for their judgement.

John 5:45

"But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.

Those who claim to love Jesus yet throw what he says out the window will stand for their judgement.

Matthew 7:21

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Matthew 7:23

Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

a) Not entering the kingdom of heaven is linked to what.. (but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.)

b) Those people did all of their works in the name of whom…

Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

Three times its mentioned.

c) What is the reply they get?

And why is that?

(but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.)

Who is the Father according to Jesus?

- The only one to know the hour

- Greater than all

- Greater than I

- The only true God

- My God and your God

>>834106

>you disrespect Jesus and god!

>cherry picking and shortening the verses.

Do you understand christianity? Or are you one of those muslims that thinks their qu'ran can say or do no wrong?

Man your LARPers are sad always removing things to make the qu'ran look as good as possible, do you guys even have faith in your book?

Even some muslims who believe it literally think you guys are pathetic why not join christianity?

You dont see us rejecting what god did or do because we understood what he did was righteous, how ever you let me bring up an example when allah is afraid of king of kings you are quick to say it was a persian or that allah is the true king of kings or that he is afraid of himself or another good one is where muhhammad was foaming and having some sort of siezure attack when he met with gabriel which didnt happen with mary or the fact muhammad gutted him self?

>>834188

>, do you guys even have faith in your book?

I am not the ones taking things out of context.

>>834193

No one here is is taking your qu'ran out of context is one of the most disgusting books I came across you guys are down playing it, but regardless you are the ones taking it out of context and for some reason coming with the conclusion that we are blaming god?

Did you ever read the verse not to trust false prophets?

Jesus came and to fulfill them why should anyone here take the qu'ran for granted by a dude who likely got possessed or fooled by a demon and then proceed to do incredibly messed up things as a result?

You can't even deliever on evidence either.

Do you understand the bible or are you cherry picking and then claim as we christians have no idea what anyone here are talking about?

Seriously the qu'ran is right there for everyone to see as for non believers that see them for the first time are going talk just as harshly about your religion than christianity for example

>inb4 it came from god and you have to read it in arabic

Not an argument if your god according to the qu'ran can guard the book (despite the revisonisms) he cant do the same when it comes to translations? That doesnt make sense again dont use mental gymnastics that you'll do when it comes to go against bible(even though this would go against you pretty easily as well).

>>834195

>Seriously the qu'ran is right there for everyone to see as for non believers that see them for the first time are going talk just as harshly about your religion than christianity for example

Yes they are still wrong and are interpetting the qu'ran incorrectly.

>>834106

>God sent Jesus but he was ridiculed and accused of lies.

Evidence of being the messiah. I'm going to ignore that bit after it doesn't make sense to me.

>John 16:13

The different persons of God can do different things. Christ can tell the Spirit to do something, the Spirit can tell the Father to do something, the Father can tell Christ to do something, etc etc.

Thats what it means that they are persons. As well, it is likely that only the Father knows the hour because the hour is not predetermined, but rather a decision made by the within a split second. If anyone has something better than that, I'd love to hear it.

Also as I said it *is* a lesson about "always be ready" and not "here are theological bullet points".

With regards John 20:17, you are just restating a point I already made an argument against. Actually, I've already made a point against most of these, and you haven't responded to any of my points. Please stop repeating yourself, you look like a fool. You are literally copying and pasting from your own post its embarrassing.

For the sake of all Muslims, actually respond to my arguments. Don't copy and paste from your own post. smh

To OP:

Salam my friend in God. I hope I can clarify a few things. I’ve been a Christian all my life and have almost fallen from being one because of people like these that only talk without even hearing themselves. All your arguments are from the wisdom of God. I’ve found that many of the wisest Christians I come across are Christians who converted from Islam to Christianity. This is because many of what your peoples believe is of God, but not everything (certainly more than some of these people). I once challenged a trinitarian about his believes using the Bible alone and he got backed into a corner and declared, “Jesus is not the Christ”. I was so infuriated with him. then he said that never happened. Every trinitarian is arrogant. Not one is able to explain with logic there belief to a rational person. Let me tell you what I believe after almost loosing my faith in God from people such as these and not only these.

God (allah) is the Father, his son is exactly that, his Son. Not some ventriloquist doll he speaks through. The son is our King, our brother through our adoption. The Holy Spirit is our ‘Mother’, wife of God.

The Bible has been manipulated and it’s words molested through translation that is why many Christian argue over their own beliefs. It’s still the best word of God we have as Christians. Long story short God has allowed this manipulation in order to dumbfound the arrogant and foolish. He’s allowed it also because he commanded his followers to communicate with God themselves, each and every one, in Jesus’ name and answers are delivered through the Holy Spirit (She can’t deliver a single word that is not of God). Without this communication no one can understand the Bible or catch the mistakes in their belief.

The reason many Irrational people are Christian is because they felt Gods presents at the beginning then allowed a church or organization to tell them what the truth is afterwards. All who go to a church follow the pastor. Christ said anywhere two or more are gathered in my name he is there as well. That is the true church, the way church is supposed to be, independent from a human leader, and everyone sharing what the Holy Spirit delivered to them from God, not just one man dominating the conversation most of the time. No organization or church can say “you must come here. Christ is here.” As Christians we have the duty to introduce the Bible and it’s very basics to the lost. Like how to pray and the sins a Christian is given power to abstain from, without excuses (Fornication, idolatry, and murder). There are no Ten Commandments for a Christian, those were for Jews. Christians have been given only those three commandments.

I’m gonna make the rest of this as simple as I can. Muslims are very devout. I understand praying to God in Jesus’ name might make you feel like your cheating on your God. That will not be the case. Do we both not worship the creator of heaven and earth? But I understand that praying in Jesus’ name is probably considered idolatry for your people. God appreciates your fidelity. I don’t want to make you feel like a spiritual whore. So just try to do the following. Pray to The Father, creator of heaven and earth and every being in it. Call him Allah if you will, does it not just mean God? If not then just call him Father, is he not all of our Fathers? But tell Him in your prayer as you end it that your asking it in The name of His most trusted creation before ending it.

Normally I would tell you start your prayer with our Father and end it in Jesus’ name, but feeling like you cheated on your God is one of the worst feelings. I don’t want you to feel guilt for something so innocent. He will guide you the rest of the way and you won’t be able to ignore the quincidences and the synchronicities that occur.

Side note: any one on here that wants to harp at me about how the Bible says the Holy Spirit is a male and the Bible is not molested consider the following. Gods personality can be seen in the things all nations have in common. In every nation it’s an unforgivable thing to insult someone’s Mother, you hear people say, “say what you want about me or my dad but don’t you ever say anything about my mom!”. Christ told us ”anyone speaking evil against the father or the son, it will be forgiven him. but speaking evil against the Holy Spirit? That will not be forgiven”. Also, when eve was given to Adam, she was called a ’helper’. When Christ told us the Holy Spirit would be sent to us he called it ‘a helper’. The Bible has been manipulated. The Holy Spirit is Mother. When two people conceive a child they only create an empty vessel. God and the Holy Spirit conceive the soul and place it in the vessel. We are all children of Father. Furthermore when Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit it wasn’t a male spirit that had sex with her ( disgusting lie I’ve heard from another fake Christian). It was Mother placing the soul of Christ in the womb of Mary, something only a female spirit can rightfully do. Another common factor among nations is that ladies help each other with lady parts. Except till The last 100 years this was always the case. None of this can be known by people who only rely on the Bible. That being said OP, I do believe the Bible is the only word of God mankind has available. And it predates the Koran. That doesn’t mean your people are abandoned by God.

To c8d55c: these are some of the lessons given to me by God through the Holy Spirit for the passed 10 years. I have nothing you would consider proof. But that’s the way it needs to be. Take what you need to Father in prayer. If I am of the devil (usually the insult I get) Christ will rebuke me. But no one can honestly say the Bible isn’t confusing, and no one can say they understand every single word it says. We all at some point have to believe something that’s not in the Bible in order to keep our faith in God and Christ, anyone who says otherwise is a liar. To navigate all the confusion the Holy Spirit is sent to us. This is how God intended it, So we will be forced to create our own connection with him. The Bible is our ‘tutor’, not our God. These are some of the lessons that brought me back to God. I hope He gives you your personal gifts, so that you may share with others as well. I know it’s offensive. But if it’s of God, it will bloom and grow.

>>834211

If you're willing to lie to make up flatteries, who would place any trust in anything you say?

The Holy Spirit is referred to in the Greek using the nominative-masculine-singular pronoun in John 16:13. This indicates the personhood of the Spirit.

>>834212

>Normally I would tell you start your prayer with our Father and end it in Jesus’ name, but feeling like you cheated on your God is one of the worst feelings.

So you prioritize feelings over telling the truth, it seems. That's why you are going out of your way to flatter some guy pasting text from another website. The problem is if you prioritize feelings over the truth in that case, it seems to suggest you did so in every case; including where you got all these so-called "facts" from with no Scriptural basis. The Holy Spirit will testify of Christ (John 15:26) and shall receive of Him and show the same unto us (John 16:13-14). He shall teach us all things, and shall bring all things to our remembrance, whatsoever Christ has said unto us (John 14:26).

In that case, I'm not seeing you mention a single truth from Scripture to support anything you've been saying. It's all been flatteries and appeals to emotions in your two posts.

>you won’t be able to ignore the quincidences and the synchronicities that occur.

So what about bringing Scripture to bear? Now you're just talking about coincidences and "synchronicities" as being proof? You're so lost because you haven't believed anything based on God's word. Despite the small sentence you give it at the end saying it's important, nothing you've said is actually Biblically sound.

Yes I know. Hence the manipulation. It was manipulated so that the true value of women would never be realized.

Another case for manipulated texts as well as outright deletions: Jonah was in the whales belly and after he was humbled and let out he glorified God. Then after insulting God for the dried vine he was chastised again by God in the form of a very important lesson. The account abruptly ends there. No word on how Jonah reacted. Weather he praised God or not afterwards and how he took the chastising is a mystery today. It just ends their, abruptly. Did God really not want us to know how Jonah felt the second time he was corrected? What he did afterwards? He must have praised God. Why is it not there? Anyone who’s ever felt like Jonah would’ve wanted to know don’t you think?

>>834219

>It was manipulated so that the true value of women would never be realized.

That's just more flattery. You're flattering feminists now. You won't win over anything but vain persons that way. Certainly not the way our Lord teaches in his word to speak and act. He says to search the scriptures, also study to show yourselves approved, and preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. That's the inspired word of God. I don't see you bringing any doctrine, just empty flattering, and untruthful statements meant purely to attract wrongdoers and to sickeningly tell them they've done well, rather than tell the truth. What does scripture say about flattering?

Proverbs 24:24-25

He that saith unto the wicked, Thou are righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:

But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

I’m not trying to flatter anyone. In fact I’ve been consistent in telling people that there is no excuse for fornication, idolatry, and murder. I’m not preaching a once saved always saved state of mind or anything else like it. That’s just one example. The truth sets people free from overzealous beliefs. Christ’s very teachings were considered flatteries to the Pharisees. The very though that we can be given mercy from our sins and be saved and create our own relationships with God is a great gift, did Jesus come to flatter us? Of course not. Christ teachings let us know we are Not thrown aside although we deserve to be. The truth sets us free of overzealousness and helps us come to peace with our imperfection. It does not excuse us of our wickednesses. Just like a man forgives his fiancé for sins she’s done but ferociously demands fidelity after their oath in marriage. Love flatters too. So Jesus does to us the same. Is the wife still not imperfect after marriage? Is the man? No. But imperfection and wickedness are two different things. Flattering wickedness is the flatteries your referring to.

If I’m truly flattering the way it seems. May you all get double rewards and Me a double curse.

This is the man muslims are supposed to follow.

>sex deviant

Sahih Muslim (8:3460) - "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you?" Muhammad posed this question to one of his followers who had married an "older woman" instead of opting to fondle a child.

Sahih Bukhari (6:298) - Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.

Sahih Bukhari (6:300) - Muhammad's wives had to be available for the prophet's fondling even when they were having their menstrual period.

Sahih Bukhari (4:232) - Muhammad's wives would wash semen stains out of his clothes, which were still wet from the spot-cleaning even when he went to the mosque for prayers. Between copulation and prayer, it's a wonder he found the time to slay pagans.

>war mongerer

Sahih Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Sahih Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

>tl;dr Muhammad was a false prophet and you are a knuckle-dragging tigger

>>834225

Hey what would be even better would be if, you know, you just started hearing and following Scripture.

>>834296

Ephesians 5:12

For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.