f19e44 No.832263
Well lads, I guess pic related settles it. Protestantism is superior to Catholicism.
____________________________
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c4545b No.832264
>>832263
Your superiority over the Novus Ordo is impressive.
But being popular with man is not the same as believing in Christ and His Church.
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cb9f28 No.832267
A milder and more appropriate argument is that Protestants as a whole exhibit more zeal and biblical morality than comparable Roman Catholics.
The same is true in the US and especially if you limit your view to evangelical Protestants (aka, actual Protestants). I'm interested to know if there is any place which shows the opposite trend, has anyone come across one?
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cb9f28 No.832269
>>832264
This data is totally irrelevant to the data you're replying to
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c4545b No.832273
>>832269
It shows the difference between Novus ordo, which is what is in Op's graphic, and the Catholic Church.
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cb9f28 No.832274
>>832273
Central & Latin America and 11 US states are entirely non overlapping populations
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cb9f28 No.832277
>>832264
I have some more thoughts on this
There is a clear selection bias. 3/4 of the respondents were in pews at a service, and the rest online responses to a theology site so they're at least enthusiasts. (I'm assuming, I don't know how the online survey responders were found).
https://liturgyguy.com/2019/02/24/national-survey-results-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attendees/
This group is naturally going to be more observant. Those who attend weekly are obviously more likely to be in attendance when the survey is taken.
The pew survey for comparison called in to random Americans and asked them to self report religious affiliation. It found that only 39% Catholics attend religiously, 40% attend "once or twice a month to a few times a year", and 20% seldom/never.
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cb9f28 No.832278
>>832277
We can control for attendance with the 2014 pew data and it shows better stats for the moral positions because of course regular attendance is associated with religiosity. The regular attending are going to know and follow the doctrine of their church.
Add to this the fact that latin mass attendees are in the minority and likely have to sacrifice somewhat in service time or driving farther for a parish that offers a latin service and you're going to get a more zealous group.
I think what we're really seeing here is largely the fact that the religiously observant are more conservative and hold biblical views at a higher rate.
It is a good thing that these latin mass attendees are better Christians than the Catholic norm, this just doesn't change the fact that most Catholics are terrible Christians. It is obvious that your clergy have a primary hand in that, because a church practicing stern church discipline doesn't become significantly backslidden on issues like homosexuality or abortion.
Sedevacantists have a total out. They are able to say "I am not in fellowship with these people". In the same way, a Missouri synod Lutheran can look at the ELCA and say "these people have nothing to do with me. I am not in fellowship with these people"
Latin mass members of the RCC don't have that luxury. Not only are you members of the same body with these but they are the dominant force. These TLM survey stats are wrongly brought up to dismiss the relevance of the general state of US Catholics, but they can't do that. What you ought to be arguing is that there is a visible faithful remnant of traditional Catholics within the Roman church, and they have attractive fruits.
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867b66 No.832279
>>832263
'catholic' and 'protestant' are concepts which people attempt to assimilate to more or less success, attack the ideas and praxis not people. those statistics mean that catholic hierarchy are failing to instil catechises into their laity and immunise them against secular culture.
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e8af48 No.832280
I don't think anything will ever help Catholics with most English speaking Protestants. You killed their heroes. People have long memories. You can try to forget it and pretend your crap doesn't stink, but they don't forget it. We still even use the same works and labor set out by William Tyndale and Thomas Cranmer to this day. And everyone knows names like Bloody Mary. You're absolute legends in evil. It just doesn't go away.
Maybe you should try the Swiss or Germans instead.
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e8af48 No.832281
>>832279
Nah. One side was victimized. That's it. It's not philosophical or even very theological. One acted like a bastard and their victims decided to avoid them for the rest of time.
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e8af48 No.832282
Also, for the record, I don't blame the Irish for being bitter about the Puritans either. Cromwell was a vicious bastard, and Calvinists to this day are just as bad when they prop him up. These people weren't even friendly to other Protestants, for that matter, but Catholic Irish got the worst of it.
Either way, you can not wave a magic wand and make it all go away…. in any of these cases.
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c4545b No.832292
I get it. You're saying that many in the Novus Ordo don't believe the catholic faith, and make it up as they go along.
In other words, some are good and some are bad…
this describes protestants.
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cd8285 No.832301
Most Evangelicals engage in degenerate behaviour like premarital sex. They also have little knowledge of Scripture to begin with so it is simply regular blind reading and being a boomer republican.
>T. Ex Evangelical Baptist
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d201dc No.832303
>>832267
There’s 2 Protestant denominations left that don’t ordain women or perform homo “marriage”: Southern Baptist and Missouri Synod Lutheran.
There’s no coming back from ordaining women. Once a denomination does that, it’s over. It only gets worse from there.
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cb9f28 No.832308
>>832303
I'm pretty sure none of these ordain women or marry homos
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cb9f28 No.832309
>>832301
What reason do you have to say that?
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cb9f28 No.832311
>>832303
And actually the SBC came back from ordaining women. There was a conservative resurgence in the 20th century.
https://invidio.us/QQTQOnv21Z8
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cd8285 No.832312
>>832309
Literally 9/10 girls in my ex Baptist church end up turning into thots. Men just become frats at college doing degenerate nonsense like smoking weed and I pretty much just left after spending 10 years actually studying the Bible for what it is
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cb9f28 No.832313
>>832312
So just anecdotes then huh
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cd8285 No.832314
>>832313
It literally isnt when this is the same for every low church Evangelical I see everywhere I go and other former Baptists like me who collaborate this
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cd8285 No.832315
Now why are Catholics also displaying this? It's simple, because they have stupidly neglected theological practice and mindset, choosing instead to be wishy washy and Protestantizing the liturgy when that should NOT be done at all. The more watered down and shallow the liturgy becomes, the more watered down and shallow theological mindset will become. This is why Evangelicals also don't do well, the difference is that the questions here are about political values and religiosity which doesn't telly you what some thot at Saddleback church done with ten guys or what Bob from First Baptist done.
When you lose on the liturgy, you lose on theology which is also why Protestantism is only good when it is High Church or Magisterial Reformation, not Low Evangelical and Baptist.
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cb9f28 No.832316
>>832315
>>832314
Your conception of evangelicalism is mistakenly narrowed
Most evangelicals don't go to low church megachurches, the average is a member of a small old congregation
>Evangelicals also don't do well
In what aspect?
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cd8285 No.832319
>>832316
>most evangelicals dont go to low church megachurches
They actually do, or they are just Anderson tier. The exception to this are probably Evangelical Anglicans but a lot of them are into contemporary worship like a typical megachurch, just in a traditional garb, so it's just charismatic Catholicism but without the Roman baggage.
LCMS are conservative and at least holding on because they actually have a whole Reformational theological background and high church mindset.
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cb9f28 No.832321
>>832319
That's just simply not accurate
Can you cite anything about this?
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cd8285 No.832323
>>832321
That is accurate. The average Evangelical isn't going to worship like a Trad Anglican or Lutheran anytime soon. The closest you get to that are just theologians whose influence only extends in the academic sphere, so it doesn't have much impact.
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cb9f28 No.832325
>>832323
I'm only telling you that there's a lot more in the evangelical world than you're depicting
See this list
>>832308
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cd8285 No.832326
>>832325
If Lutherans are in that list there then heck, I am literally an Evangelical as well
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cb9f28 No.832327
>>832326
Welcome friend
There are some competing ideas about how to define evangelical
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dc7e5a No.832328
I attended a Baptist church during my childhood, and very few of the teens/young adults I knew there turned out well. Most of them didn't take it seriously to begin with and got into partying/drinking/hard drugs by the end of high school. I stayed clean of that but fell into agnosticism myself. I speak from experience: Baptist (and other low church) liturgy is atrocious and their theology is unconvincing. It's not necessarily a "rebellious young people" thing either; the majority of traditional American Catholics today are Millennials who dominate the Latin Mass, most of whom are also cradle Catholics.
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cd8285 No.832329
>>832327
I am a sacramentalist high churchman though
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eab524 No.832330
>>832328
Mexican Catholics are some of the most lecherous critters I’ve ever encountered. Nearly all of them are shacking up despite having a full litter. Their faith seems to be nothing more than a good luck charm to them.
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cb9f28 No.832331
>>832329
So are many evangelical anglicans
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cd8285 No.832333
>>832331
Then I guess I am one as I am sacramentalist, liturgical but I want hard and deep preaching and no Roman excesses
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c4545b No.832337
>>832330
You know, when I saw the picture of El Chapo's (evil sadistic mexican drug lord) wearing the Brown Scapular after he was captured in a gun battle, I knew this was true.
I grew up with many Mexican Catholics. This is common.
OTOH, I look at false Catholics like Pelosi and Biden who murder the unborn…
When your church has open doors, sometimes a fly is let in.
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eab524 No.832344
>>832337
And I know they don’t represent all Catholics. I am merely trying to point out that most (or at least many) Baptists probably are not like the ones you grew up with. Most that I have encountered are very pious, and something of a lamp in a decadent culture.
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cb9f28 No.832356
>>832333
You fit in with lots of us then
There is a resistance among the "reformed" crowd like at ligonier to embrace the term evangelical at all, partly because of connotation it has with fundamentalism which is maligned as anti intellectual
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2e9581 No.832368
Catholics are in it for life, for better or worse, and they always identify as Catholics, even when they aren't practicing. Protestants are seasonal. They identify as whatever particular brand of Protestantism appeals to them at the time and will not identify as Christians if they lose their faith, unlike Catholics. The data indicates this. Protestants are more zealous for their short passionate flare-ups before they undulate away. Catholics – even the 80% of Catholics that do not believe or practice – will always say they are Catholic if they are asked, and so they yield the terrible percentages on faith-based questions as shown in the OP.
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cb9f28 No.832371
>>832368
>They identify as whatever particular brand of Protestantism appeals to them at the time and will not identify as Christians if they lose their faith, unlike Catholics. The data indicates this.
Show us that data
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cd8285 No.832372
>>832337
You are part of the problem for being a Papist
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c4545b No.832390
>>832372
Of course. Maybe you should ask for a Catholic Hate sticky.
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2e9581 No.832393
>>832371
I was talking about the data in the OP. The point I was trying to make is that many non-practicing Catholics identify as Catholics for cultural reasons, but you don't see that as much with Protestants. Makes the surveys look pretty bad. I'm sure that if you only polled Catholics that followed the precepts of the Church (attending Mass weekly, going to Confession at least once a year, etc.), as well as Protestants with similar participation, the results of the surveys would be very different. But, yeah, I know at least eight "Catholics" (self-identified) who don't go to Mass at all, and many more who will go occasionally, but participate licitly in the sacraments. I only know one former Catholic who doesn't call herself a Catholic anymore now that she's stopped attending. It's pretty much the equivalent to me calling myself a Baptist and then answering all of those survey questions with answers contrary to Baptist teachings.
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cb9f28 No.832394
>>832393
>The point I was trying to make is that many non-practicing Catholics identify as Catholics for cultural reasons, but you don't see that as much with Protestants.
Yes you said this, can you substantiate it?
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cb9f28 No.832396
>>832393
>I'm sure that if you only polled Catholics that followed the precepts of the Church (attending Mass weekly, going to Confession at least once a year, etc.), as well as Protestants with similar participation, the results of the surveys would be very different.
The results are different but the trends are the same. You can see this data broken down by attendance, see here
>>832278
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cd8285 No.832430
>>832390
Look at me, I am the Reformed Catholick
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c4545b No.832451
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2e9581 No.832477
>>832394
Just anecdotally.
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8f6f25 No.832522
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
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cd8285 No.832554
>>832451
Old High Church Anglicans are Reformed Catholic.
Reformed because we do consider the theologies of the Reformers, Catholic because we hold to the importance of the Fathers and customs of earliest Christianity.
Unfortunately I am lumped with gay Episcopals and cucked Church of England
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