03b969 No.830831
Were there errors in any of the 7 Ecumenical Councils?
I find it difficult to believe the Holy Spirit was not infallible in his guidance of these councils as he was in Acts 15. However some reformers, e.g. Calvin, claim there were errors in even the first 7.
While I'm not sure I agree with it, I can understand the argument rejecting the councils after the East/West Schism. But what grounds would one have for rejecting the first seven, when the whole church was united? What are these errors that are spoken of?
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1425f1 No.830835
>I find it difficult to believe the Holy Spirit was not infallible in his guidance of these councils
Well considering no one there had the Holy Spirit I would assume so.
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d5d4a1 No.830839
>>830831
Saying the Holy Spirit guided them all is just sleight of hand. More like the Imperial hand guided them. And I'm not talking about Constantine. He was hands off and how an emperor should have been. I'm talking more about his successors. Especially Justinian. There's a reason why plagues came down upon all of their heads.
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da4132 No.830841
>>830831
the persian church doesn't accept any councils after ephesus, at one point they were the largest church spanning all the way to east asia and evangelising the mongols. the oriental (coptic, armenian, ethiopian, some indians) don't accept the councils after chalcedon.
you can read the dogmatic definitions or canons of the councils (not everything is some of its disciplinary only), don't let the name fool you: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils
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03b969 No.830846
>>830835
>The eternal Baptist.
"There was no Holy Spirit from 33 AD until some English clown named John Smyth Baptized himself in the 1600s"
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b8591f No.830847
>>830835
We know those people had no discernment right away, because many of them considered apocrypha to be inspired. The real word of God is strictly that contained in Scripture.
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683051 No.830851
The 7 councils are guidelines, not inspired decrees. The spirit was present in the same way that the spirit is present in Christians today.
They're basically trustworthy.
I would go a step further with the ecumenical creeds and call them inerrant, as in without error, because they have no disagreement with holy scripture.
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b8591f No.830860
>>830851
The real question is whether you are among the group that considers them inspired and thus on par with the inspired Holy Scripture.
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cf978b No.830874
The Holy Spirit stopped being present among Christians beginning with 313 AD at the earliest
After that, the faith had been usurped by human hands, and cheerfully handed over by so-called priests and bishops. I am saying this with love and respect for the faith as an Orthodox, but it's time the faithful, by the grace of God the Son and the Father, reclaim its fundamental right to worship Christ without the need for human made ideas like emperors, patriarchs, metropolitans, hierarchies and so on. Worldly intervention in the faith only causes wordly problems within the faith. Take that away, and we shall all be saved.
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676dd6 No.830901
>>830847
Yeah they didn’t know that in 1300 years heretic lay people would take 7 books out of the Bible that the Apostles all quoted from
>>830874
John 14:16
“And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you FOR EVER;”
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cf978b No.830903
>>830901
What is this post suppose to convey?
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b8591f No.830907
>>830901
>Yeah they didn’t know that in 1300 years heretic lay people would take 7 books out of the Bible that the Apostles all quoted from
There were more than 7 apocryphae.
>>830903
Unbroken continuation of the church. What happened was the baptist church remained institutionally separate from catholicism during the dark ages.
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495125 No.830918
>>830903
anabaptist fiction
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cf978b No.830934
>>830907
Why does institutional continuation matter so much to baptists if they're not centralized like the roman catholic church ?
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51eb4d No.830939
>>830907
That image must be satire… that, or a terrific display of Baptist mental gymnastics and how insecure they are about the founder of their "church" being John Smyth - a lad with long flowing hair who was excommunicated by his own Baptist denomination! Nevertheless, thanks for the chuckle lad.
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683051 No.830956
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7eed40 No.830982
>>830907
Fixed that image for ya!
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683051 No.831064
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b8591f No.831113
>>830934
It conveys Matthew 16:18 and the continuity of the church.
>>830939
Not really, just posting the truth.
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48378a No.831411
>>831113
Makes sense to me.
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d5d4a1 No.831433
The councils were broken well before the first. The so called churches had the gall already to chase off followers of Tertullian, Nazarenes, and even Polycarp (a student and bishop who learned from the Apostle John himself). I think there's a good reason why the desert fathers just ran for the hills once Rome got involved.
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497dbc No.831454
>>831433
This is the most frank answer. The councils *probably* got a lot of stuff right, or at least mostly not-wrong; but that is *probably* more due to a wisdom of crowds effect than some bulls— about humans being infallible when they meet in sufficiently large groups for a specific purpose.
The councils achieved what they were intended to do; formulate a semi-coherent, consistent statement of faith for the Empire. Whether every little piece is correct or not, probably wasn't too much of a concern.
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d4669c No.831468
>>830831
>Were there errors in any of the 7 Ecumenical Councils?
They were acts of men, since when are men infallible?
>I find it difficult to believe the Holy Spirit was not infallible in his guidance of these councils as he was in Acts 15
Jerusalem was unique, it was led by apostles, and brought new revelation.
>However some reformers, e.g. Calvin, claim there were errors in even the first 7.
All of the reformers felt there were errors in them. I don’t know about the Lutherans, but the Reformed universally rejected the 7th as heresy without equivocation. If it was accepted by any Protestants it was out of ignorance. The actual stance of the council is strictly incompatible with all Protestant views on images because it requires the veneration of them. Such veneration is forbidden by all Protestants
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683051 No.831494
>>831468
Producing something without errors doesn't not require infallibility
Have you ever gotten a 100% score on a quiz?
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d4669c No.831495
>>831494
OP was obviously not talking about a mere lack of error
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da4132 No.831496
>>831468
why aren't images allowed to be venerated in protestantism? cathodox don't worship them as God as the degenerated heathen do.
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d4669c No.831497
>>831496
It is considered idolatry to give religious glory to anything besides God Himself.
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d4669c No.831498
>>831496
>>831497
And I should add that the latria-dulia distinction is rejected
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683051 No.831501
>>831495
You're right about that
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b8591f No.831513
>>831496
Some state churches have also been against it.
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