30ff70 No.830210
I'm considering converting, but stuff such as:
>Why Protestantism is correct
>Why is this board so anti-protestant
>Protestantism is the biggest misinterpretation of Christianity ever
is making that rather difficult.
I just want to follow Christ, I do not care about Rome, nor Luther, nor anyone else besides Christ. I just want to follow the Bible according to my own interpretation.
Is there a Church that simply follows the Bible without caring about denomination?
____________________________
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867754 No.830220
>>830210
>I just want to follow the Bible according to my own interpretation.
If you mean "what I'm convinced the Bible teaches" rather than subjectivism, yes it's called non-denominationalism. It's a very popular and growing number of evangelical churches.
It's a mixed bag. They have often fallen for the "seeker sensitive" movement.
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6adfd0 No.830222
>>830210
>I just want to follow the Bible according to my own interpretation.
What if your interpretation is not that which God intended? First you have to pray to God that he would teach you proper knowledge and wisdom and that he would send you his Spirit who can teach you all things, as it says in the Gospel:
>Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
>He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16:14)
Another passage speaks of the same.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
>But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10)
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
>Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
>Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
So then it is not us which properly interpret scripture, but rather God working in our minds gives us the true value of his words. As it says in Hebrews 4:2, the word preached is not profitable if it be not mixed with faith in those that hear it. So we must first believe God is able to send us his Spirit and knowledge the same way that he has brought us his word to this distant age.
In 1 Thessalonians Paul writes:
>For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
And this is why Jesus reassures his disciples of this:
>And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
>Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(John 14:16-17)
What can we do without God? Nothing. I can only praise God for his instruction. We have to ask God to help us first. And so:
>And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
>For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
>If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
>"Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures"
— Luke 24:45
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6adfd0 No.830223
>>830222
Oof that didn't get formatted right. Sorry about that.
The references in order are:
John 16:13-14 (The Spirit of truth, or Holy Spirit, will guide them into all truth)
1 Corinthians 2:9-13 (The Holy Spirit teaches things of God, not any man)
Hebrews 4:2 (the word does not effectually work in those without faith)
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (the word effectually works in those that believe)
John 14:16-17 (the Holy Spirit lives in those who are His, abiding with them and guiding them into the truth)
Luke 11:9-13 (God certainly knows how to give good things to those that ask him, how much more shall He then give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?)
Luke 24:45 (Jesus opens their understanding so that they can understand the scriptures)
Hope that makes sense as to why we can't rely on our own selves only. I could add more passages to support this as well, such as 2 Peter 1:20-21, John 14:26, John 15:26, 1 John 2:27. Or also, Romans 8:11, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 & 13:14, Ephesians 1:13-14.
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2a5d56 No.830225
>>830210
I wouldn't care about the thread seeming anti-protestant or not, that really isn't important. Protestants are not lesser Christians nor are Catholics greater Christians for that matter, all of that is polemics and meaningless noise. It all comes down to different presuppositions, sometimes irreconcilable presuppositions, and these are things you should consider with humility and prayer.
Fundamentally, what you seem to want is a non-denominational, atomised form of Christianity. So you should consider if this bias holds out in light of Church history and in light of Scripture. You must also consider if there is such a thing as an ecclesiology and if that institution is rigid (Catholic/Orthodox) or if it's fluid (Protestant) or if it doesn't even exist at all. Naturally, as a Catholic, I would urge you to look at Rome, but even if you're not inclined to do so, at the very least consider with humility what the orthodoxy has to say, because even good faith protestants do this.
Worry about getting baptised if you haven't, brother. And please meditate on the Eucharist for that is the fundamental question you should be asking: is the Christ truly bodily and spiritually present in the Eucharist. Just try learning for now and ask the Lord for guidance, don't worry about the noise, just get baptised.
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990d04 No.830226
Non-denominational is what you're looking for. They basically read the Bible and do what it says. I fall into that category and I love it. I simply rely on the word of God and it's great.
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9f2b02 No.830228
Go back to the beginning. Look at history. After looking at what the Apostles taught through the scriptures, see what their disciples taught as the Church Fathers. If you go back to the first century, you will have only Catholic and Orthodox to choose from. Protestantism didn't exist for 1500 years. It is watered-down Christianity. It is "pick-and-choose" Christianity. It is babbies furst cristanity. It is the result of looking at the words of the Bible and only the words of the Bible (and not even all of them) without context and trying to build a religion around the parts that make you feel good.
Convert. Get baptized. Get confirmed. Take the eucharist. Make confessions. Be a real Christian, through and through.
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867754 No.830229
>>830228
>Go back to the beginning. Look at history. After looking at what the Apostles taught through the scriptures, see what their disciples taught as the Church Fathers. If you go back to the first century, you will have only Catholic and Orthodox to choose from. Protestantism didn't exist for 1500 years. It is watered-down Christianity. It is "pick-and-choose" Christianity. It is babbies furst cristanity. It is the result of looking at the words of the Bible and only the words of the Bible (and not even all of them) without context and trying to build a religion around the parts that make you feel good.
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3d3cf4 No.830235
>>830210
> I just want to follow the Bible according to my own interpretation.
of course. Do as you want, as the devil says.
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212e4e No.830237
>>830210
>Is there a Church that simply follows the Bible without caring about denomination?
Arguably every single one, depending on if you don't attach arbitrary meanings to the words you have spoken.
I'm serious. Everyone out there is doing this because "their interpretation of the bible".
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dbab34 No.830249
You cant bro:
>2 Peter 1:20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Or the egyptian eunuch reading scripture passage
> “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Nor follow the bible only and dismiss sacred tradition:
>2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
Its not a book you can tackle by yourself. At least get the Catena app, it has the bible and verse by verse commentary by the church fathers and theologians.
There's also a pc browser version http://catenabible.com/mt/1
This way you'll have some Philips sitting with you.
You still need the sacraments though.
Christ only used the word New Testament once
>'Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.'
That is, while instituting the greater of sacraments, he also tells you to DO it not read it.
Then Paul uses it once too, while talking about being unworthy of administrating it.
Check this series on the importance of that sacrament, its free for a while, just use a fake email. https://stpaulcenter.com/free-stream/
And this on the same subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45BHDRA7pU
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902d63 No.830253
Have the humility to admit you probably don't know better than 2000 years of scholars and monastics. Now, as to which denomination fits that condition, we conveniently have a handful to choose from. Obviously, you'll choose that branch which seems right to you, true? wrong again, this introduces the same opportunity for human err in the choice. Not similar, the same. If you choose Baptism for whatever reason, you can be the most loyal, fundamentalist, pious baptist in the world, but if you were wrong in your initial choice, the damage would hypothetically be done. There is only one foolproof choice; one that isn't a choice, ruling out all denominations that share ecumenism, and political or cultural interference or dominance. The choice is, for you, as for everyone who comes to the faith in your position, usually and pretty much, Orthodoxy or Tradcatholicism. Now the definition of catholicism is that it is whole and all encompassing; it's defining characteristic is that it involves the Church in one central governing body throughout history. Well, Vatican II may or may not be the throne of the antichrist, and tradcatholicism is not a whole body of governance, even among itself, and certainly not when taking communion into account. Even if this weren't the case, the history of catholicism has been much more resembling to that of a nation state, with wars, exploration, disputes, and again, governance, central to it's image in any Christian's mind.
If only there were a denomination whose central characteristic was not unitedness in and of itself, or baptism in and of itself, or allowing divorce in and of itself, etc. Yes… the best denomination ideally would have as a central identity, well, ideally, the uncompromising safeguarding of the oldest known teachings as they were then. A denomination whose central characteristic was conservation of Theology first, as opposed to any other duty of a church first. In another word (exactly one word), that begins with an O…
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6adfd0 No.830257
>>830228
>If you go back to the first century, you will have only Catholic and Orthodox to choose from.
You realize Constantine founded Catholicism, right? If you go back to the first century, you have only credobaptism. Infant sprinkling wasn't invented yet.
>>830237
>I'm serious. Everyone out there is doing this because "their interpretation of the bible".
Yeah pretty much this. Without God to guide us into truth, we are all equally lost. That's why the Father sent us his Spirit (the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father) as Jesus said in John 15:26, John 16:13-14.
I'm not sure why everyone is ignoring this and linking bible apps like this post >>830249 as if that would help more than God the Holy Spirit. Maybe these people aren't trusting in God but in man for interpretations.
>>830253
>the history of catholicism has been much more resembling to that of a nation state,
Precisely, because it was founded in the fourth century by Constantine the Great. It creates a subverted form of baptism which is little more than sprinkling some water on a baby as a way to join the entire nation into one "unified" "Catholic" state. Hence, it is a state church. They turn baptism into a mere census device.
>Yes… the best denomination ideally would have as a central identity, well, ideally, the uncompromising safeguarding of the oldest known teachings as they were then.
Yes, the Authorized version of the Bible which is based on the original languages. This is where all of my value judgements come from. This is the record that God gave of his Son, and teaches us the truth of God and who He really is. That's how I know not to use modern corruptions because the true word of God has survived unchanged until today. We still have this today my friend. I can say with sure confidence that This is the pure word in which there is nothing corrupt which I now have. I've looked into the details.
I wouldn't rely on manmade interpretations. The whole search for the truth has to begin with asking God for light and in trusting his ability to uphold his word, not looking for a denomination to simply follow blindly. I hope this helps.
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6adfd0 No.830259
>>830257
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
- Proverbs 3:5-6
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2a5d56 No.830260
>>830257
It's always the same hot takes over and over again. I'm happy that not all protestants are like you and most have moved on from your particular kind of outdated polemics, brother. And I hope you one day do the same.
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6adfd0 No.830261
>>830260
I suppose that you have chosen to disregard what the apostle Paul instructed Titus to do, to speak the things that become sound doctrine, to the purpose that the word of God be not blasphemed.
If you choose to willfully be conformed to the world and its values, if you allow God's word to be blasphemed in your ways, then please don't include me. Because the truth is more important to me, I cannot be joined to anything else. When you might have space to repent, it might be possible. Can you imagine the judgement that will one day fall on those that have willfully disregarded the word of God? I urge you, seek repentance.
Also, I'm not an Eco-marxist so please, seriously, don't include me with them.
It is against my express intentions to be included with such ungodly and sinful false doctrines. Flee from the midst of Babylon, save every man his soul, for the time of vengeance, as we read, shall be soon upon them.
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cd5c7d No.830262
>>830257
It's not even worth responding to such an ignorant troll, but just so everyone is clear: Constantine did not make Christianity the "state religion" of Rome. He merely made it a legal faith, alongside all the others, to stop the persecution. It wasn't until Emperor Theodosius, deacdes later, that Christianity was made the official faith of Rome.
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6adfd0 No.830265
>>830262
Then why is it that he held the council of Arles back in 314? The state church is indeed the brainchild of Constantine the Great.
He was the one who first decided who was in charge of it at its inception, and all later successors to that, pointed back to his reign as the example to follow. For example, Augustine's letter 93 to Vincentius. He explicitly said Constantine was the predecessor.
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6adfd0 No.830266
>>830262
>>830265
I also can't point you to any place in Scripture, where these ideas come from.
The idea of calling on kings by any church to crush, to dishonestly cajole and to coerce the opposition, Using all kinds of manmade devices and noble lies; by pious frauds. It happened much later during the Constantinian shift. Instead, you see the epistle to the Corinthians in which Paul tells the church, "them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
There's nothing about causing the church to go kill heretics. Instead the words of God are "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."
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6adfd0 No.830267
>>830210
Anyways hopefully that answers your question to an acceptable degree. Some are trusting in men to provide them with Bible apps, commentaries, and so on. Others of us are trusting first and foremost in God for providing the things necessary for our condition, such as his word, his grace, his Spirit, his church. All of God and from God, not some manmade device. And, certainly not Rome, Babylon or some political denomination. Those things pass away, but the word of the Lord endures forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). And this is the word by which the Gospel is preached to you.
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2a5d56 No.830269
>>830265
>>830266
>>830267
It's quite unfortunate that you would use this opportunity to post polemics. And outdated, unhistorical ones at that. And to presume the superiority of your own brand of atomised Christianity that is unbiblical, but hey, you can cherrypick verses all day and interpret them on your own authority to make a point.
Peace of Christ be with you, brother.
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30ff70 No.830311
OP here, thanks for the replies.
Sadly most of you think rather differently about which denomination I should pick, and even about how I should arrive at said pick.
Quick question, do you guys think all followers of Christ, regardless of denomination, end up in heaven?
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990d04 No.830312
>>830311
I do think some Catholics are saved, but not all. I think there's a significant number who worship Mary and saints and go far overboard.
A lot of Protestants will be saved, but then, there are a lot of denominations which simply believe what they want and won't. I think reformed will be saved, but a lot of them will simply have lesser experiences. God has invited us to experience a lot and they limit it.
If you're simply wanting salvation, choose a Protestant church and, for the most part you'll be fine. I suggested non-denominational because they believe in miracles and thus see them. There's a lot to experience beyond simply salvation and there are some churches which teach there really isn't. That's something to consider.
But at the end of the day, pray, ask God to guide you to the perfect church and you'll find it.
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867754 No.830318
>>830312
>I suggested non-denominational because they believe in miracles and thus see them.
Most non denom churches are not charismatic/pentecostal
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6adfd0 No.830337
>>830311
>Quick question, do you guys think all followers of Christ, regardless of denomination, end up in heaven?
According to what the Lord Jesus Christ said, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Therefore, we uphold the sure conviction that whoever believes in Him has passed from death into life and shall not come into condemnation (John 5:22, 11:26). This is regardless of membership in a church. As the Lord said again in John 3 verse 18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Likewise in John 8, he told the pharisees that if they believe not "that I am he" then they shall perish in their sins.
And so by believing in what our Lord has said in his word, we also have a sure conviction that, "he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"
Therefore whatsoever He has commanded us, He has done so likewise for a reason. "The foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
Since God also says in his word that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, and likewise other passages of his word, we also continue in the church. But it is important to distinguish that, "by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This, then, is the faith in the integrity of the word of God.
>>830312
>But at the end of the day, pray, ask God to guide you to the perfect church and you'll find it.
Yes, after all we are very reliant on God for providing us for those things we ask.
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6adfd0 No.830338
>>830337
>John 5:22
That should be John 5:24.
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ca61b7 No.830339
>>830311
Generally no denomination believes there is salvation outside *their* church, I think. This is your opportunity to really discover what they are about though. It's a good one, believe me. You have a very real opportunity to begin investing into your faith… hint BEGOME ORDODOX
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867754 No.830353
>>830339
>Generally no denomination believes there is salvation outside *their* church, I think
Not a single Protestant denomination teaches this
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2a5d56 No.830355
>>830339
Even the weirdos like Anderson teach that Catholics are saved if they have at one point in their lives said the three magic words. If anything, protestants have a very fluid soteriology unless you're a Seventh Day Adventist (inb4 not protestant) who thinks you're committing some very grave sin by not keeping the solemnity of the Lord's day on a specific weekday. The seemingly more restrictive Church on salvation is the Catholic Church, but even then you have to take into account undefinable concepts like invincible ignorance, which in theory means that most everyone can be saved/purified in Purgatory.
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212e4e No.830358
>>830355
>but even then you have to take into account undefinable concepts like invincible ignorance, which in theory means that most everyone can be saved/purified in Purgatory.
Last I checked invincible ignorance only applies to a very limited amount of people, mostly people that aren't aware of the Bible.
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2a5d56 No.830360
>>830358
You can't fully define salvation, anon. We understand the Catholic system hence why there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. But to presume that God bows to our legalisms or that we have it all figured out is nothing but pure foolishness, He is the Author of Perfect Justice, not any Pope or Saint. The faith is and always will be mysterious until everything is revealed to us in His Kingdom. In the meantime, only God can judge the ignorant and can reward them or punish them on their works.
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0ada33 No.830422
>>830265
The state church you speak of is the very same church that compiled and canonized the scriptures you believe in at around 393 AD. If this 'state church' is so profane, why are you basing your entire religious beliefs on a document they created?
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6adfd0 No.830424
>>830422
>The state church you speak of is the very same church that compiled and canonized the scriptures you believe in at around 393 AD
They added apocrypha, so no actually that's not true. In fact, to go a step further, their inability to discern the word of God from the words of men marks them out as undiscerning. How do you suppose I follow them if they mark out apocrypha as legitimate? We received the pure version of Scripture not from them (indeed, they use a corrupt), but from God himself, and preserved in course of time by the same hand of God.
The Apostle Paul even warned us about the many who corrupt the word of God, and that we are not like them. Accordingly this is one of the marks of a true church.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
(Mark 13:31)
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
(Ps. 119:160)
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
(2 Cor. 2:17)
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
(Proverbs 30:5-6)
For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
(Ps. 119:89)
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
(Matthew 24:35)
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a8a013 No.830430
>>830424
You realize there was no fixed canon in Antiquity, and none of them were without the deuterocanonicals?
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990d04 No.830433
>>830430
Lol that's not true. Jesus listed them when he said the books in Luke 11:51. That's referring to Genesis through 2 Chronicles. There's a reason the Jewish elders didn't debate that point then. The deuterocanonical was added after it was already established. No one argued over what was contained until a few councils decided they needed to add.
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6adfd0 No.830453
>>830430
I realize that Jesus Christ said in John 8:47– He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
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39128f No.830475
Hi OP, just do a Non-Denominational church. Find one with connect groups like Hillsong or C3, you’ll have a fun place to hang with other Christians and talk about scriptures.
I started out at one of these, had good times and I grew a lot in my faith. Later I became Lutheran and then ultimately Catholic, but that stuff all works itself out eventually. Just worry about finding a church and getting plugged into a community right now, and don’t beat yourself up if you can’t swing the tithes
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867754 No.830482
>>830475
>like Hillsong or C3
Please don't do this
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990d04 No.830484
>>830482
>>830482
>>>830475
>>like Hillsong or C3
>Please do this
Fixed.
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9ad1b9 No.830493
>>830210
>I just want to follow the Bible according to my own interpretation
Fine. You worship God your way, and I'll worship Him His way.
<no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation
2 Peter 1:20
<[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction
2 Peter 3:16
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6adfd0 No.830503
>>830493
If he's actually asking someone for help, let's be charitable and give answers to show him the right way?
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30ff70 No.830597
>>830493
Friend, people on this board can't even agree on what "His" way is.
That's the reason I made this thread.
–
Anyway, I'll just have to read more, as other anons already pointed out.
Thanks for the replies.
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2a5d56 No.830606
>>830597
God bless you on your journey, brother. Just keep studying with a humble heart.
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