861c2b No.830130
Over the last few months I've gained a renewed interest in faith, and I would like to follow my ancestors in their footsteps in becoming a true God fearing Protestant. The problem that I am facing, however, is that I am unsure as to what denomination I should pursue.
My grandfather and grandmother were Anglican, and proudly so. Thus it feels imperative to me that I should go down that path as well. Admittedly though, the current state of the Anglican Communion is pretty disturbing and quite frankly disgusting.
If I were to dedicate myself to Anglicanism I would join the Church of Ireland. They aren't as bad as the Church of England, but they still permit gay marriage and have ordained women to all offices. It should be noted that the Anglican Churches in Northern Ireland, where I live, have never, to my knowledge, facilitated the marriage of sodomites, given that it only has been a legal matter in Northern Ireland as of late 2019. Also, Northern Ireland still has a large base of true conservative Christians, so I am unsure as to the extent that the degeneracy of the mainland has fostered itself in my local parishes here in Northern Ireland.
Another source of my doubt has been Rev. Ian Paisley's formidable sermons and speeches about the need for the rebirth of Christian militancy in our views and actions. This passion is something that I have yearned for quite a long time now. I am fully convinced the Church of Ireland will remain impotent and feeble, and as such unable to answer this yearning. I am aware this might seem rather pompous and egoistic, however, I find it of extreme importance that whatever Church I join has the capability and capacity to become militant and ambitious in its efforts to grow.
So if I were to subscribe to another denomination, other than Anglicanism, it would either be Free Presbyterianism or an Evangelical denomination of some sort. The problem with the former is that they're Calvinistic to an extent, and the problem with the latter is that they are often pro-israel. Another issue is that more fringe Churches have greater mobility as they aren't bound down by a large impotent bureaucratic organisation, on the other hand though I admire Anglicanism and Orthodoxy for their hegemony. The latter definitely more than the former, but since the Orthodox Church is foreign to my ancestral lands they unfortunately aren't an option. Also, the Catholic Church isn't an option, as I do not wish to worship the anti-Christ. Though I must admit that I admire lots of the Catholic traditions and history. I just reject the papacy given its conduct throughout the course of history.
So yes. Thanks for bothering to read this. Any clues or input?
____________________________
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0675ef No.830131
>>830130
>Which Protestant Denomination is for me?
>I would like to follow my ancestors
>but since the Orthodox Church is foreign to my ancestral lands
A lot of people, high and low, has been choosing to join some Christian denomination because of reasons like "I want to be in a community" that's not something that can inspire true sacrifice or devotion. Your most faithful ancestors choose Christianity because it was the Truth.
Additionally
>Admittedly though, the current state of the Anglican Communion is pretty disturbing and quite frankly disgusting.
>Also, Northern Ireland still has a large base of true conservative Christians
>Also, the Catholic Church isn't an option, as I do not wish to worship the anti-Christ
I know that Protestantism literally spawned off Martin Luther but does nobody realize his solution of fleeing to a new denomination is wrong?
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861c2b No.830132
>>830131
Firstly, I never said that my renewed interest in faith was spawned by my wish to follow my ancestors in their footsteps. I merely said that I wished to be able to attribute the label 'God fearing Protestant' to myself because it is something that my ancestors valued.
Secondly, I am confused as to why you would attempt to steer someone away from submitting to God rather than encouraging them to go down the right path, regardless of their motivations. Even if your assumptions about my motivations were true, which isn't the case, I don't see how your response could contribute to a positive change.
Thirdly, Martin Luther did not wish to create a new Church. The only reason why he left is because he was forced to do so. Ultimately I do wish to see a strong hegemonic Church in Western Europe. Unfortunately though, the Catholic Church simply isn't an option given their horrible track record. The only reason why Protestantism was able to rise is because of the disastrous policies pursued by the Catholic Church throughout history.
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1608cf No.830133
The question should he entirely based on what you believe the Bible teaches.
I don't know much about your situation in Ireland, but rejecting evangelicalism on account of a supposed connection to Israel shouldn't be a factor. That's a rabbit hole that takes a while to get through, just know that it is very easy to know if a church is zionist or not and to avoid them.
If you want a nom-calvinist conservative Protestant church you should investigate wesleyans and Baptists. In the US there's a continuing anglican movement that disassociates from Canterbury, I don't know if that's an option there.
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c58c2d No.830134
Find a non-denominational church in your area. Read the Bible, do what it says. They reject degeneracy and glorify God.
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16a270 No.830136
I had this attitude of "what denomination fits my belief best" as well.
Then it dawned on me I was doing it wrong. The question is not what fits my beliefs, but which religion is God's religion. It's not the easy ones, that's for sure. The path is narrow. Religion is not a social club. Go join the Rotary or Moose Lodge if that's what you want.
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0675ef No.830138
>>830132
Anon, I'm trying to form the right words here, since I don't understand what you are talking about.
You're saying that your renewed interest isn't coming from wanting to follow your ancestry, that's fine, but then what is making you say that you can't choose X denomination because of matters related to your ancestry?
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df723d No.830139
>>830130
> I would like to follow my ancestors
You can still honor your ancestors and continue loyalist Irish culture without joining the church that shares the church of yesteryear in nothing but name and formalities. Emulate and continue your ancestor's faith and faithful tradition, not just blind tradition.
>but they still permit gay marriage and have ordained women to all offices
Then that church is out. No church is legitimate if they permit an abomination like sodomy, abortion, pride, etc.
>Northern Ireland still has a large base of true conservative Christians
Have you heard of Paul Flynn and his Megiddo Ministries? I don't endorse everything he says, but he's sincere and passionate about the true faith in Northern Ireland. Perhaps you could contact him and ask about faithful churches.
>Another source of my doubt has been Rev. Ian Paisley's formidable sermons and speeches about the need for the rebirth of Christian militancy in our views and actions
I yearn for that zeal myself. Be cautious however that the zeal is done in wisdom and love lest it becomes bloody
> The problem with the former is that they're Calvinistic to an extent
Nothing wrong with that. :^) Might want to scratch looking up Paul Flynn then. What's your problem with Reformed theology anyways?
> the problem with the latter is that they are often pro-israel
That's a problem, but if a particular church keeps that to minimum I would just let that slide and still join that church anyways. Yes, sucking up to a false Israel full of unbelieving Jews is bad, but its not a deal breaker and certainly not a high priority problem in the church catholic, compared to say the thing that spawns Israel-worship, dispensationalism.
>Any clues or input?
First, again, you should re-examine your distrust of Calvinism. I'd look up evangelical churches in your area then go to sermon audio or youtube to see if they record their sermons. Review a few to determine the quality of their theology and their focus. If they have a website, they'll have more information about how they do things. Every decent church website should have the church's creed and mission statement. If they don't have either, I would stay clear unless someone you trust has more info.
>>830131
>I know that Protestantism literally spawned off Martin Luther but does nobody realize his solution of fleeing to a new denomination is wrong?
Luther gave his own church many chances to help itself, but instead, Rome b—-ed against the 95 theses and his invitation for debate and decided to treat him worse than the devil. The same goes with John Calvin. Neither one wanted to leave the church but forced out; and those that followed afterward never forgot that nor that at Trent, the true Gospel was anathematized, which sealed the schism, if you can call a that. It seems after 500 years that the so-called schism was more like a lot of Lots fleeing spiritual Sodom than a schism between two churches.
If a church commits sins, errors, heresies. blasphemies and other things, you only harm yourself, your loved ones, and your testimony by staying at the church, and that applies to every church, Roman, Eastern, Protestant, etc. There is nothing erroneous about fleeing in those situations.
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861c2b No.830142
>>830138
>you say that you can't choose X denomination because of matters related to your ancestry?
Despite the fact that I deeply respect many aspects of the Orthodox Church, I cannot entertain them as a serious option because their traditions have drawn too much from local traditions, and most importantly I align a lot more with the Catholic Church on matters such as the Holy Trinity than with the Orthodox Church.
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861c2b No.830143
>>830136
I absolutely agree with you on this matter. Luckily my beliefs do not clash with the fundamentalist beliefs, and as such I won't be joining a Church that ignores certain parts of the Bible to stay relevant, or whatever the excuse is that they use nowadays.
>>830139
>You can still honor your ancestors and continue loyalist Irish culture without joining the church that shares the church of yesteryear in nothing but name and formalities.
Great point.
>Have you heard of Paul Flynn and his Megiddo Ministries?
I'll definitely check him out
>What's your problem with Reformed theology anyways?
I vehemently reject the notion that only a very small predetermined number of people are going to heaven. It's really quite simple as that for me.
>but if a particular church keeps that to minimum I would just let that slide and still join that church anyways.
I am quite traditional in my views of the JQ.
>First, again, you should re-examine your distrust of Calvinism. I'd look up evangelical churches in your area then go to sermon audio or youtube to see if they record their sermons. Review a few to determine the quality of their theology and their focus. If they have a website, they'll have more information about how they do things. Every decent church website should have the church's creed and mission statement. If they don't have either, I would stay clear unless someone you trust has more info.
I'll definitely follow this advice. Thank you! You've been a great help.
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861c2b No.830144
>>830139
Just discovered that Paul Flynn rejects Christmas. I think that'll be a pass for me.
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d49404 No.830145
>>830144
"Rejecting Christmas" shouldn't be your Litmus test, brother. Maybe you should study those polemics more attentively beforehand.
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07ace5 No.830146
>>830145
I find the matter to be quite indicative.
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1608cf No.830148
>>830143
>I vehemently reject the notion that only a very small predetermined number of people are going to heaven.
Because of the determinism or the small number?
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480b21 No.830150
>>830148
determinism, and also the belief that the number will remain small in a good Christian society.
My ID changed because I connected to a different VPN server.
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d49404 No.830151
>>830146
Why do you say that, brother?
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d49404 No.830152
>>830150
Just concern yourself with the orthodoxy of the Faith. The orthodoxy is more important than shopping for the right denomination that appeals to your political and religious sensibilities. Truth and sincere belief are more important than any of those things. I would urge you to consider Catholicism, of course, but if you are unable to do so for whatever reason, at the very least see what the orthodoxy that was preserved in these churches (in which I count with great personal esteem our Orthodox brothers in the faith) has to say.
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1608cf No.830155
>>830150
I agree with that judgment against deterministic calvinism
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e0f595 No.830157
Lutheran is your best bet.
Lutheranism in its true form is awesome and the best Prots have to offer. Luther’s Catechisms are a great summary of the faith. The Book of Concord Lutheran confessions will give you everything you need when it comes to denominational differences.
As I understand Lutherans and Anglicans share full communion so you’ll still be honoring your fam… much more than joining and Irish church!
Find a church in a good conservative Lutheran group like the LCMS. Avoid the ones with the women priests and the non-liturgical practices.
Reasons to be Lutheran
>Not ignorant to tradition, church councils, etc like other Prots
>Smartest Prot denom, well studied, good theology, a whole library of rich writings
>Real presence in Eucharist
>Infant Baptism
>Optional confession which really helps if you need it
>Great conservation of the early church and apostolic tradition
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1608cf No.830162
>>830157
>Reasons to be Lutheran
>>Infant Baptism
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baa811 No.830362
>>830130
I'd say be a KJV only Baptist.
Protestants are right on the faith alone salvation but a lot of them have been corroded over time so a lot of backdoor work salvation like lordship salvation, repent of your sins salvation have crept in. A lot of protestants are actually catholic lites as they sprinkle babies the same way and often read the same bibles as the catholics do (they stem from the same corrupt vaticannus/ sinnaiticus). If you are not reading the KJV, please check out this video and give the Independent fundemental baptist sect a shot. NIFB specifically if you want a non-judaised sect of Christianity which is very rare nowadays thanks to scofield reference bibles that have flooded into the evangelical sect for the past 100 years or so.
Catholics and Protestants butcher 10 commandments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LptgkndnlSU
Problem with Protestants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIQegOGFUg4
Once Saved, Always Saved: a must watch sermon for Christians who are not sure of their salvation or have doubted it before.
https://youtu.be/hycjHApNNOM
NWO Bible Versions: Exposes all the corrupt modern bibles like the niv, esv, nkjv, nasb, Why you should be KJV onlyist if you are an English speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtI_mVOXbQ
https://youtu.be/BXMA4xOS5BY
Basic Soulwinning Demonstration
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2a9744 No.830368
>>830157
>>Not ignorant to tradition, church councils, etc like other Prots
Good joke.
>Smartest Prot denom, well studied, good theology, a whole library of rich writings
Good joke.
>Real presence in Eucharist
Invalid Holy Orders mean Invalid Eucharist.
>Optional confession which really helps if you need it
Invalid Holy Orders mean invallid confession.
>Great conservation of the early church and apostolic tradition
If by "great conservation" you mean total departure.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Sallus
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bed744 No.830374
>>830362
>give the Independent fundemental baptist sect a shot. NIFB specifically if you want a non-judaised sect of Christianity
Ah yes, the guys that split off from the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, that split off from the Southern baptists(and other English congregations), which mostly split off from the Triennial Convention, which split off from the English Dissenters, which split off from Church of England which split off from the Catholic Church, which may or may not have split off from the Eastern Orthodox Church, depending on who you ask.
Im sure you guys have absolutely figured out the truth this time.
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18d62a No.830380
>>830374
>the guys that split off from the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist,
Yes
>that split off from the Southern baptists
>and other English congregations
No, maybe occasionally at the local level
>which mostly split off from the Triennial Convention,
Yes
>which split off from the English Dissenters,
Developed from a subset of*
>which split off from Church of England
Mostly
>which split off from the Catholic Church
Roman*
>which may or may not have split off from the Eastern Orthodox Church,
Fair
As usual, the anti baptist argument being made is Islam style succession rather than biblical exegesis
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fcbc31 No.830414
>>830374
>Ah yes, the guys that split off from the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist
In all fairness, this isn't accurate. The concept of a pure "low church" successionism does not recognize such organizations, it is only cognizant of healthy individual churches starting or "planting" other churches of like operation to itself. In congregational churches, there is no such thing as episcopal offices, or anything higher than pastors and deacons with Christ as the head. These offices of local church leadership report directly to the Lord, because Biblically that is what Christ instituted with the apostles in the first century. Therefore, it is not possible for there to be a "split" between such churches, as each of them is an independent hierarchy- albeit holding the same faith and practice.
It was actually the SBC that tried to agglomerate a bunch of churches together in 1844. Just as you might expect, it led to gradual corruption in the upper councils. Now look, the SBC today uses a modern bible called the "Christian Standard" Bible that has gender neutral pronouns.
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bed744 No.830416
>>830414
>The concept of a pure "low church" successionism does not recognize such organizations, it is only cognizant of
It's doesn't matter what they "recognize" or not.
Plenty of religious groups and movements, both inside and outside Christianity, stopped recognizing the authority of their overeaching organizations over them, but for all intends and practises they split from them.
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fcbc31 No.830423
>>830416
>It's doesn't matter what they "recognize" or not.
And when did I say "they"? I said the very concept itself, does not include such things. That's simply not part of how that successionism works.
>stopped recognizing the authority of their overeaching organizations over them
What you're referring to are political parties, and not all churches have joined them or followed in their decisions. This is considered the Biblical view as God recognizes it. For additional information on this see the article on "Bishop" here:
https://archive.org/details/edinburghencyclo03edinuoft/page/540/mode/2up
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a47331 No.830431
Find a Southern Baptist church that is independent of the actual leadership in the "convention." All leadership in any denomination is cucked. Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox. It doesn't matter. All of the leadership is cucked because those with power are corruptible, and Satan rules this world. Satan tried to tempt Christ, so do not be surprised he tempts mere men in authority.
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c58c2d No.830434
>>830431
Southern Baptists are generally cessationists and that means they believe God ceased working in this world, generally. As such, they generally believe God loves you, He loves you more than you'll ever know, but he doesn't really want anything to do with you on this earth. Only a cuck could come up with a belief system like that and follow it.
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a47331 No.830437
>>830434
So in other words, you're a Charismatic, not actually non-denominational.
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1608cf No.830441
>>830434
>cessationim
>means God ceased working in this world, he doesn't really want anything to do with you on this earth
Huge misrepresentation
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c58c2d No.830443
>>830437
No I'm non-denominational. I read the Bible and do what it says. If you're anything other than charismatic, you're reading into the Bible something that's not there. Disagree? Tell me where the Bible says the gifts stopped.
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c58c2d No.830444
>>830441
Not really. Did the gifts cease? Why? Does he still perform miracles? But why then did he eliminate the gifts? Was he bored? Did he only want one generation walking out in faith with actions to back it? Or did he want to be a stern father whose joy that was set before him includes taking the hope of the gifts away and mostly expecting you to just follow the line?
There's really no way to take the gifts away and there be a positive aspect. Why would he tell one generation they'd do greater things than he and there'll the following generation they won't?
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1608cf No.830446
>>830444
I'm not going to dignify that as an argument
Here's a link
https://www.gotquestions.org/cessationism.html
The very worst way to discuss theology is to just assert that someone who disagrees with you simply doesn't trust in the Lord enough
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c58c2d No.830450
>>830446
1. Seems their ministry wasn't finished because Matthew 24:14, which was preached to his disciples has never been completed.
2. Absense of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Also, if you accept that, then there's Mark 16 which says:
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
That seems like a long list of miracles.
3. Where did this comment determine it was finished and not used again? They're making an assumption without evidence and then ignoring the fact that two chapters prior Paul wrote eagerly desire the gifts. Why desire what already left?
4. When the two sisters were in the house with Jesus, one worked and the other sat at the feet of Jesus and listened to him. Did one not seek more than the other? Does one then not have the opportunity to seek something better than something lesser?
5. Wouldn't be the first time people were wrong.
6. lol this is the worst argument. If God gave everyone the gift to speak the language of the place they were going, would there be any need for faith? Could you think of any better way for God to prove his existence? This argument, though the longest, is the laziest. It's not well thought out. You may as well say, "God prove to me You exist, heal me of (insert problem)." Would we expect that? No because then people like Luke wouldn't need to be doctors. This is really a bad argument on its face. Ever heard of the saying, "Physician, heal thyself"?
This is just a terribly written article that makes baseless assumption after baseless assumption.
Given this terrible argument, I guess mine still stands?
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c58c2d No.830451
>>830446
Also, the very, very worst argument is to simply say "God doesn't want to have a relationship with you by showing he is God."
And as for the saying tongues will cease, which is a misinterpretations since Paul wrote in the previous chapter to eagerly desire the gifts and the letter was not written to the Apostles! It was written to the Church of Corinth! So your argument rests on the idea the letter was for a different audience! Oh my gosh. This is ridiculous.
Cessationism is simple garbage.
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fcbc31 No.830454
>>830444
>But why then did he eliminate the gifts?
He didn't, because we still read about them in the word today and as God said, "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
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bed744 No.830455
>>830423
>I said the very concept itself, does not include such things.
Irrelevant.
For all intents and purposes, they broke away, no matter what their worldview was.
That's like saying all the New Age perrenial religion faggots are right, because they reeeeally believed they were faithful restoring some ancient occult lineage, and not just larping and splintering.
>For additional information on this see the article on "Bishop" here:
I love how whenever you guys try to show off historical documents to prove your point, it's some off-hand fragment from some book of how some guy in pre-Industrial Revolution England interpreted some things described in some chronicles happening.
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c58c2d No.830460
>>830454
That was of the resurrection. He was talking about his return from the dead. Only so many could see that.
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fcbc31 No.830471
>>830455
>Irrelevant.
No it is relevant. My original point, the Andersonite style churches couldn't have formally "split off" from any other independent baptist churches because of their mode of successionism. These individuals were never joined together under any kind of denomination, so in all fairness it isn't accurate to say one split off from the other.
Furthermore, it can be plainly seen from history that the Southern Baptist convention, the next given example, was formed together in 1844. But the records clearly show that other baptist churches remained "independent." So it doesn't make sense to say that in general they split off from the southern baptists. Although I suppose it is possible that some have.
>I love how whenever you guys try to show off historical documents to prove your point, it's some off-hand fragment from some book of how some guy in pre-Industrial Revolution England interpreted some things
I have plenty of historical documents actually. And I have to stand up and say these encyclopedias are much better sourced than something like (wikipedia).
But the point of linking that was simply to provide a longer description of the differences. I guess if you want to reject reality that's your option.
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55264b No.830765
>>830130
You don't need a denomination, just read the Bible. If you don't know which one to read, look up biblehub IIRC and compare translations. Some are horrible translations that remove or distort the word of God (e.g. most used by catlick churches).
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