2c918e No.828861
What did God mean by this?
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e08f6b No.828863
>>828861
He meant exactly what He said because of Matthew 5:37
>But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
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fe3e5d No.828864
>>828861
Then a couple of paragraphs later He orders the people to sculpt two cherubs on the ark and make cherub embroidery for the tabernacle.
Hence you can have images pertaining to His glory.
You cant sculpt golden cows, etc.
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c61f86 No.828867
>>828864
Those aren't cherubs in that picture and if you had read Ezekiel 10:14 and compared it to Revelation 4:7 you would know exactly why.
>Hence you can have images pertaining to His glory.
No graven images or the likeness thereof. The reason they do anything is because God ordered it by fiat. By fiat He wanted cherubs on the Ark. By fiat he dissolved the usage of the levitical priesthood to attain righteousness and the ordinances such as cherubs on an Ark thereof. By fiat he declared not to make idols nor to worship them. So don't do it as it has nothing to do with your logic and has everything to do with obeying God like in 1 corinthians 7:19
>Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
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5c14a5 No.828868
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
-Psalm 115
The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;
They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.
They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.
-Psalm 135
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67e224 No.828869
>>828861
what did he mean by this?
>He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
>And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
>Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
>Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?
>And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God's Son!"
i guess god made a graven image and commited idolatry against himself and allowed people to worship it.
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2c918e No.828872
>>828869
Pretty low IQ take
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c0e2d2 No.828875
>>828872
>I have no argument and I must insult
Jesus would be so proud.
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fe3e5d No.828876
>>828867
the image is just a fast google search, it doesnt matter to the argument if its an accurate cherub.
Cant obey God if here is a contradiction, He ordered images to be carved and sewn so some images arent idolatry.
Also the commandment follows 'You shall have no other gods before Me.' so His prohibition of images are about other 'gods'.
Anyway since day 1 Christians had drawings in their catacombs, Christians directly taught by the apostles.
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2c918e No.828877
>>828875
>>828869
Is this seriously the level of mental gymnastics that Catholics will use to justify their idolatry?
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d43ae6 No.828884
>>828877
That's not even a rebuttal. Catholics take the whole Bible + Tradition, you take scripture out of context and do the devil's lies and hate.
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aeddec No.828889
Obviously God didn't run this by the pope first. But don't worry, the pope doesn't worship the Bible, just God, and if that's not enough, he's worshipping, I mean, venerating the saints and angels with glory we'd normally reserve for God, so they are fully covered. What I'm saying is, don't get hung up on small things like the Bible, which is the breathed word of God because we've got the pope and a whole Bible to misinterpret starting with "upon this rock, I will build my church. "
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2c918e No.828897
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11cfae No.828898
>>828889
>catholic
>"small things like the Bible"
I'm calling false flag on this one
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fe3e5d No.828908
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fe3e5d No.828909
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fe3e5d No.828914
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5c14a5 No.828918
>>828914
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
— 2 Peter 3:10-12
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44b835 No.828919
>>828861
Do you believe the Jerusalem council in Acts 15? Do you believe Paul's letters to the Galatians, (second letter to) the Thessalonians, and (second letter to) the Corinthians? If you do, you have to AT LEAST believe the 7 ecumenical councils. And the last of these, before any schisms in the Universal Church, debated this issue long and hard and put it to rest. YES, WE CAN AND MUST HAVE HOLY IMAGES.
If you don't believe the decision of the council of Nincea II, then you don't believe Paul's letters, you don't believe the council of Acts 15, you don't believe 2 Thessalonians 2:15, and you don't BELIEVE THE BIBLE. You're a Jew, the very Jew Paul was writing against in most of his letters.
So if you don't believe in holy images, make sure you are chopping your d—, eating a no pork-diet, wearing no more than one color of clothing, not leaving your house on Saturdays, making your wife sleep outside every time she's on her period, et all of Leviticus and Numbers.
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fe3e5d No.828922
>>828918
This was clearly the day of the devil. Imagine his glee seeing Europeans vandalizing the house of God and dividing Christendom forever.
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aa47a8 No.828957
>You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above
You shall not bow down to them or worship them
That's what he meant. I look at it this way: God is an amazing artist who creates amazing art. He wants us to appreciate His art and wonder at it. His greatest works of art are His saints. The saints in Heaven are a veritable art museum, and their merits and good works are like the techniques He employed and integrated into His masterpiece. In real life, you go to an art museum and appreciate the art first hand, but if you want to continue in your veneration, you might buy a replica or book with copies from the gift shop to take home with you. Those gifts probably have a lot of information about the painting and the artist, and when you enjoy those things, you come to know both the painting and the artist better.
The saints are the paintings. The replicas and gifts are the icons. The veneration of icons is a way of reveling in God's handiwork. It doesn't deprive God of glory any more than an artist is slighted when you appreciate his art. The artist would be jealous and rightfully angry, however, if his works were being attributed to another person, or if there was unlawful duplication, or if his skill in crafting the art was dismissed as a fluke, or if the art were seen as somehow greater than and independent of the artist. THAT is idolatry. THAT is what the Lord forbids. The glory belongs to Him, and so robbing Him of His glory makes Him jealous.
There is no true Catholic or Orthodox Christian that sees an icon as anything more than a poor representation of a truly good and holy creation of God's.
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deae14 No.829023
Uh, retards he didn't meant idols he meant ANY figurative image at all.
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5c14a5 No.829035
>>828922
If you are placing your faith in stone and concrete buildings, then the day when the Lord comes and burns up all the works that are in the earth it will be like your sand-castle that was built on sand comes crashing down.
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.
- Psalm 118
The same can be said for trusting in structures and earthworks. It can be said for trusting in lands or cities. It can be said for trusting in idols, icons or false gods. It is better to trust in the Lord than in all of those things, and in one day all of those things shall be dissolved. Then where will you be? Where will you be placing your trust in from that time, because all of the statues, the columns and the everything else, especially the idols, will be gone. So what are you so worked up about.
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
"Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded."
- 1 Peter 2:5-6
"Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."
- Jeremiah 50:2
"Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence."
- Jeremiah 51:6
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The broad walls of Babylon shall be utterly broken, and her high gates shall be burned with fire; and the people shall labour in vain, and the folk in the fire, and they shall be weary."
- Jeremiah 51:58
"Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD."
- Jeremiah 9:23-24
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fe3e5d No.829041
>>829035
The question is if we can have depictions or not, nobody has their faith placed on stone.
You can use the pietá to meditate on what it depicts so it brings glorification to God but if someone breaks it your faith isnt harmed. Its still a tragedy to destroy that which can be used to glorify God.
Also you can teach and evangelize through images, some people are more tuned to visual cognition.
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6f748f No.829110
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fe3e5d No.829117
>>829110
Cherubs could all be guarding hell, in their essence they would still be things from above.
The Pieta above is not an idol nor it is worshiped.
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6f748f No.829134
>>829117
>Cherubs could all be guarding hell, in their essence they would still be things from above.
Chapter and verse?
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43abae No.829139
This Commandment has a big caveat since Christ. Those who insist on a purely Judaic interpretation end up denying Christ himself. That is, if "no image" of God is allowed in the absolute sense, then you deny that he incarnated in the flesh and actually had an appearance in Christ.
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43abae No.829141
>>829139
Just to add, this is precisely why we are NOT Jews or "Judeo-Christians" (whatever that means). The whole crux of the matter centers on the Incarnation, and why Jews tried to murder our Lord in the first place. For a Christian to suddenly larp as a Jew and insist on Jewish outlooks on images is a betrayal. Same goes for why Muslims are so drastically different. They acknowledge Jesus RIGHT until the point that you say that he is the very Image of God.
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11cfae No.829152
>>829139
>>829141
That's a bad argument. The contention is against graven images. Nobody arguing against the use of these images in church denies that the incarnated Christ isn't God or that men aren't imagebearers.
Leaning on a position as "judaic" is also not an argument, it's guilt by association.
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fe3e5d No.829154
>>829134
I mean that it doesnt matter where an Angel goes, its always seen as a thing from above.
As a demon that tempts you and possesses you is a thing from below regardless of where he is.
What you cant make are things to worship.
If you sculpt an angel and worship it it becomes an idol and breaks the commandment, but if its made to glorify God it doesnt.
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