44f03a No.827228
I pray, I hold a cross and say the words of accepting the lord into my heart. Yet it does not feel genuine, and I know God can notice this.
I know evil is best at deceiving, but it is deception that I be concerned about Jesus literally being a jewish rabbi?
When you look into judaism, you see it has multiple tiers of control and secrecy. Near the top is the talmud and kaballah, which essentially boils down to how to control the masses.
When I think about that, and Jesus, it makes me worry about Jesus being a disciple of the secret rabbit sect, just playing a controlled opposition role.
When you look at society today, you see these same people setting up their own controlled opposition in every single sector of life.
But Jesus teaches good, and love, and whipped money changers etc. I genuinely want to believe Jesus is real, but something always irks me about it all, i am always afraid its just another figurehead teaching 99% good, and 1% poison.
Its just too much to consider, and I pray for guidance, but I still feel lost..
(I have read the bible and all of its versions)
____________________________
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44f03a No.827229
Another thing, I keep seeing this new-age gnostic stuff everywhere about how "everyone is god" etc.
This if course rubs me the wrong way, and seem disrespectful to an omnipotent perfect being, comparing gross humans to it.
But then I start thinking about the bible, and how it talks about the holy spirit, and god and Jesus working through us.. and it just seems like a different way of talking about this pantheistic, gnostic, new-age supposed "satanic" thinking.
The holy spirit has always confounded and confused me, God created man in his image, and gave up his only begotten son to save us from our original sin.. yet this holy spirit is supposedly randomly manifesting itself in people at different times and in different quanities to acheive desired outcomes.
Why is the holy spirit needed to acheive things if Jesus already defeated evil on the cross for us? where is free will and the saving grace of accepting Jesus if we still need to have another 3rd party of the holy spirit entering us time to time?
i have prayed to god to guide me on how to do actual good in this world, but even that seems silly, because everything IS how God wants it to be already.
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44f03a No.827230
And of course, after all of this thinking. I tell myself "you are thinking, that is the problem, have faith and trust god"
I am trying. I have tried to not think, I have tried to sit still and clear my mind and await peace and guidance. But that has not worked,
and again, everything IS how it should be according to god. and if I have accepting him as my savior, I must be doing his will? Is his will to have me sitting here posting these questions?
god help and forgive me.
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44f03a No.827231
Sorry, another thing,
And what about revelations? Does anyone think it strange that people are praying for god to save them, and save this world, if it has already been told to us that god will allow it to be destroyed, and god will allow evil to reign over it for an allotted amount of time?
No one is safe in revelations, everyone suffers at once point or another in that timeline, so if god has already said that evil will assume complete control of the world out in the open, and he will let it happen, why pray or try to do good?
is faith without works dead? or are works within faith dead? are we just here to try to save others and get them to believe? if so, why does god not show us how to do this effectively? I am not wise compared to god, yet he does not aid me when I humbly admit this to him.
again, i still see this as disrespectful in the first place.
sometimes it seems like blasphemy to pray to god and ask him to help you with anything at all on this earth, as you are essentially questioning his plan.
but then again, if the holy spirit works within us, are our questions even our own? or are they gods? but we are not god, and we have free will, so what the actual winnie poo should one do??
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64895d No.827234
You're right. Praying to receive grace is not a matter of repeating words, it's declaring Jesus as Lord. If you really are praying ungenuinely, you are not justified before God, and he wants you to be.
Your thoughts are scattered. Big picture, you do not feel assurance of salvation and you are overwhelmed with unanswered theological questions. Now is the time to seriously start studying systematic theology.
>concerned about Jesus literally being a jewish rabbi?
>talmud and kaballah
>When I think about that, and Jesus, it makes me worry about Jesus being a disciple of the secret rabbit sect, just playing a controlled opposition role.
>When you look at society today, you see these same people setting up their own controlled opposition in every single sector of life.
The Incarnation of Christ and the New Testament predate the talmud, so don't worry about that.
Jesus was born a jew in the line of David like prophecy foretold. The practice of Judaism in the New Testament era was fractured and corrupt. Jesus rebuked those Jews (pharisees especially) and they hated Him, even to the point of killing Him on the cross.
If you're worried about Jesus being just a man in charge of a conspiracy of first century Judaism, look no further than the his contemporaries's to Him.
If you're worried about Jesus being a man in charge of a conspiracy of talmudic Judaism, that's an anachronism.
>>827229
>it (holy spirit) just seems like a different way of talking about this pantheistic, gnostic, new-age supposed "satanic" thinking.
Read it again and look harder .These is no compatibility between the biblical description of the Holy Spirit and gnosticism.
>Why is the holy spirit needed to acheive things if Jesus already defeated evil on the cross for us?
Because they fill different roles. There is more in the spiritual life than redemption from sin.
<When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
>>827230
>I tell myself "you are thinking, that is the problem, have faith and trust god"
You're giving yourself bad advice. God is rational. There is no need for this cognitive dissonance.
>everything IS how it should be according to god. and if I have accepting him as my savior, I must be doing his will?
This is determinism. Most of us reject it. Do you have a calvinist background?
>>827231
>is faith without works dead?
Yes, that's what James 2:24 says
>are we just here to try to save others and get them to believe?
That is our primary responsibility. It's called the great commission.
> why does god not show us how to do this effectively?
He does, it's simple. Share the gospel.
<“Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
<How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
<How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
<However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
<So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Let me recommend that before you work out your salvation before the nuances of free will and divine foreknowledge.
Hope this helps. I'm glad you found your way to our board with these questions.
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64895d No.827236
>>827234
>look no further than the his contemporaries's to Him.
look no further than His contemporaries's treatment of Him
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44f03a No.827237
>>827234
I wish I could say your effort-ful post helped me, but I am still stuck with the same questions. I very much appreciate your response.
When you say things like
>These is no compatibility between the biblical description of the Holy Spirit and gnosticism.
All I can say is "i disagree"
When you talk about Jesus not being controlled opposition, you cite history and prophecy that would be written to support him not being controlled opposition.
When you say
>You're giving yourself bad advice. God is rational. There is no need for this cognitive dissonance.
I know I am giving myself bad advice, because I have tried everything, ultimately all I can do is trust god, but that still has me here posting this thread
>This is determinism. Most of us reject it. Do you have a calvinist background?
It is determinism to conclude that god is omnipotent and the source of everything? As for Calvinism, I do not care about that. All I care about is doing what god wants me to do, and become less broken inside.
faith/works
>Yes, that's what James 2:24 says
then why does Jesus say to give in secret?
All in all, nothing really addresses my concerns, and the very fact that you are proud to be of a certain denomination initially gave me concern that you would think about this critically. Why is christianity so fractured? is it not strong enough to be united??
again, i appreciate your response.
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44f03a No.827238
I guess it really boils down to:
Why is man, and his many interpretations, and many institutions and rules needed to understand and obey God?
If I approach god with humility, and beg him for guidance, accept Jesus and declare that I wish to serve, I am unsure why I am still so lost.
And if I am supposed to find purpose through the words of men interpreting God , even after showing acceptance of Jesus in everyway that I can.. what use is it to save unwililng non-believers, if I cant even save myself while I am willing apparently.
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44f03a No.827239
Its always "one more thing" I must do, or think, or read.. to finally feel connected to God and shake the despair and confusion.
Its always just one more thing I am missing. I try to tell myself that this useless maze is for the glory of god, and has its purpose. But as I get older, it just seems like I am being led astray.
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c5a41e No.827266
>>827228
>I pray, I hold a cross and say the words of accepting the lord into my heart.
Becoming a Christian is not a magical incantation. Jesus is King of all creation and High Priest of the only God. He is God manifest in the flesh, as a true human, offering His unblemished human life as a bloody sacrifice for the sins of His people. He intercedes for them, entering into the highest heaven to present his own blood to the Father, and only through trusting in the sacrifice of that High Priest, the eternally existing Son of God, can the Father's wrath be appeased.
John 8:23-24
<“You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Saying a prayer means nothing. You must believe it.
>i am always afraid its just another figurehead teaching 99% good, and 1% poison.
That's what the pagans will tell you… But when, in John 6, Jesus taught in the Capernaum synagogue that if anyone wanted to have eternal life, they would have to eat His flesh and drink His blood, most of His disciples left Him saying,
>“This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?”
After speaking further, Jesus turned to the 12 in particular and asked them if they were going to go away too. And what was their response?
>Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
>We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.
Once you realize who Jesus actually is, where the heck else are you going to go? What else is there? Everything else is empty and vain. If you can't believe in Him, then there's nothing else to believe in. How could anything lesser ever satisfy?
>The holy spirit has always confounded and confused me
Yeah, it does that for a lot of people. Good doctrine about the Holy Spirit is hard to come by, but there's a very solid reason the churches have always believed in the Trinity… You can't really make sense of certain things in the New Testament without it. The text really forces you to that position, if you're going to read it consistently.
>gave up his only begotten son to save us from our original sin
To save the people that His Father gave Him from all of their sins, including the original one.
>Why is the holy spirit needed to acheive things if Jesus already defeated evil on the cross for us?
Frankly, you need to go to a conservative church that can answer these questions. Don't let these doubts and feelings simmer in the dark. There are plenty of pastors who would be delighted to answer these questions.
Each member of the Godhead is seen fulfilling a role in the work of salvation. The Father ordains it, Jesus atones for the sins of the people His Father gave to Him and then presents His sacrifice before the Father, and the Holy Spirit is the Comforter that applies the righteousness of Jesus to the individuals that Jesus purchased, at the time that the Father specified for this to take place in each one of their lives.
https://www.ligonier.org/blog/trinity-works-together-salvation/
The Holy Spirit also plays an intercessory role, praying to the Father on behalf of the people He was sent to.
>i have prayed to god to guide me on how to do actual good in this world, but even that seems silly, because everything IS how God wants it to be already.
Yes and no. It's not silly because God ordains both the ends and the means of getting to those ends. There are still things to be done, and He uses humans to do these things. Asking to be used is actually expected of His children.
>I tell myself "you are thinking, that is the problem, have faith and trust god"
Faith does not mean going braindead. There's no reason for faith to be blind.
>I have tried to not think
Stop that. You're being silly. Find the right questions.
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c5a41e No.827267
>>827228
>And what about revelations?
Revelation. Most of the book has already been fulfilled. Not a popular opinion these days, but huge chunks of American Protestantism got derailed around the late 1800s by C.I. Scofield and Charles Taze Russell. People are starting to find their way back, but it's a slow process.
>so if god has already said that evil will assume complete control of the world out in the open
That part already happened. Started around 63AD, ended in 70AD. We're in the millennium. It's a figurative millennium and the kingdom is spiritual in nature. (God's elect = the kingdom.)
>is faith without works dead?
Faith without works is just a noise you make with your mouth.
>or are works within faith dead?
If you erroneously think those works are going to somehow make you right with God, then yes.
>are we just here to try to save others and get them to believe?
Partly. We're here to glorify God in other ways too.
>if so, why does god not show us how to do this effectively?
He did. People just don't listen very well.
>yet he does not aid me when I humbly admit this to him.
An accusation underlies that sentence. He answers in His time and in His way, and sometimes that answer is no. You wait for Him. Sometimes it's that you aren't asking the right question.
>as you are essentially questioning his plan.
That's not what that is at all. You are a living creature with a will. You have needs, wants, desires, pains, curiosity, and any number of other emotions. God is not an abusive father, and He's not offended when His children ask questions or ask for help.
<Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:16. Obviously you can only approach that throne when thoroughly saturated in the blood of the Lamb. God hears His adopted children.
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9eef4e No.827270
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9eef4e No.827271
testing if captcha worked
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9eef4e No.827272
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9eef4e No.827273
As title says.. NOTE. I use 'lust' for lack of a better term. 2 weeks ago I was struggling with prayer, and I asked God to give me a love a prayer. Fast forward a few day, I was overcome by a "lust" for God. By lust, I DO NOT mean "expletive expletive expletive" But an intense DESIRE for God. To be overwhelmed by His love. It caused…certain regions, to become…alert. I have NEVER, EVER been this willing to self sacrifice, to die out of love. If I could sing, I would be singing the psalms. ALL of them. I just love Him. No one has been so loving to me like He has. He created me, He gave me a soul. I am not a monster. He saved me from destructive tendencies. He loved even when I hated Him. I have never been so willing to die out of love, to be so self sacrificial. i would die a million deaths if it meant His glory would be increased. EVERY FIBER OF BEING yearns to be in union with Him; to possess Him and be possessed by Him. I can equate this to God being an infinite ocean of love, and I am drowning in it, but the more I fight it..the more I wish to give in…and dissolve with Him. Is this heresy? Is this a trick of the devil? to lead me astray? I don't know. but I know one thing, when I die I am eager to meet Him, to sing songs to praise His name. What is this? I have never been so hungry for God…
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9eef4e No.827274
I will pray for you, anon.
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44f03a No.827289
>>827266
>Stop that. You're being silly. Find the right questions.
You could have just said that, because apparently I have yet to find the "just one more thing" I must do.
>>827267
>If you erroneously think those works are going to somehow make you right with God, then yes.
I do not think that. I do not even know what right with god means. I just want direction and less broken feeling.
>>827273
thanks for sharing
>>827274
thank you sir.
I dont know why this has to be so complicated. its like god made an unsolvable crossword puzzle in 4 dimensions, and I am just running around bouncing off walls being completely lost.
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9840ed No.827290
>>827228
>but it is deception that I be concerned about Jesus literally being a jewish rabbi?
It isn't deception, it is ignorance. Christ Yahshua was an Israelite. Jews were Canaanites and Edomites. I have no idea why Christians reject this fact, when both the bible and secular historical texts clearly show that the land of Judea was completely taken over by the neighboring Edomites before the time of Christ. King Herod, the "king of the jews" who "rebuilt" the temple? He was an Edomite, look it up. Jews do not follow the religion of the Hebrews, nor are they descended from Hebrews biologically. Jews follow "the tradition of the elders", a satanic cult from Babylon, later codified as the Babylonian talmud. The Lord hates the jews, has always hated the jews, and will always hate the jews, exactly as the bible tells us.
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44f03a No.827291
>>827290
> The Lord hates the jews, has always hated the jews, and will always hate the jews, exactly as the bible tells us.
I am having trouble remembering the part where Jesus discusses his hate.
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9840ed No.827292
>>827291
I didn't say Jesus discussed it. I said:
>The Lord hates the jews, has always hated the jews, and will always hate the jews, exactly as the bible tells us.
You can tell because what you quoted says:
>The Lord hates the jews, has always hated the jews, and will always hate the jews, exactly as the bible tells us.
And because what my original post says is:
>The Lord hates the jews, has always hated the jews, and will always hate the jews, exactly as the bible tells us.
Try reading the posts you reply to first of all, then try reading the bible.
>saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
FOR EVER. The Lord does not lie.
And before you resort to your anti-Christain "but the OT doesn't count because I am retarded and have no idea what I am talking about" cop-out, remember that Paul confirms this is so in the epistle to the Romans:
>As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
And of course, the book of Obadiah is entirely the prophets vision from God of what will befall Edom.
>Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.
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44f03a No.827293
>>827292
I appreciate your reply, but I got about halfway through your post before I was exhausted by your tone.
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9840ed No.827294
>>827293
>I'm pretending I didn't read your post because it proves me wrong
>I am definitely not a kike though
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44f03a No.827296
>>827294
really not here to play into the divide and conquer s— my friend. please take your instigations, slurs, and aggressions elsewhere.
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9840ed No.827297
>>827296
>really not here to understand the bible and be saved
That's very unfortunate. Forgiveness is waiting for you as soon as you are ready. Don't wait until it is too late.
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44f03a No.827299
>>827297
thanks, very unhelpful in terms of everything I have said in this thread.
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9840ed No.827300
>>827299
It is the only thing that is helpful. Saying "I don't care what the bible says I just want someone to tell me what I want to hear" isn't going to help you. How can you know Christ if you will not read the bible?
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44f03a No.827302
>>827300
you are just being ignorant right now, putting words in my mouth, and deciding to ignore everything I have written.
If you read everything I have written thus-far, and were smart enough to understand english, you would know what you are saying now is rather non-topical.
i do appreciate your replies.
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9840ed No.827303
>>827302
Bulls—. You just desperately want to cling to your jewish myth of Christ the hippy and are butthurt about being confronted with truth. You refuse to read the bible because you not want to know what it says.
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c5a41e No.827330
>>827289
>I do not even know what right with god means.
It means God not holding your sins against you anymore.
>>827291
>I am having trouble remembering the part where Jesus discusses his hate.
John 8, starting in verse 12 and going through the end of the chapter. Specifically verse 44, where Jesus is talking to a mob of angry Jews.
<You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.
In Revelation 3:9 Jesus calls them the Synagogue of Satan. I'm pretty sure God isn't a fan of Satan. I don't know about the stuff that other anon said about the Edomites, but I do know that he's right about God not being a fan of Jews.
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801796 No.827339
The fact that you think it isn't genuine, is what makes it genuine to God. Pray, fast, give charity, attend Mass, confess your sins, and God grace will be your sincerity.
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f9259e No.827371
OP here, probably different ID
>>827303
>Pray,
I have already said I pray, did you read what I wrote?
>fast,
I have tried that, doesn't change much (also seems like just a way to make the plebs eat less food, you need food to live.. you ask for daily bread.. not a daily removal of bread)
>give charity,
Are you omniscient? You must think I do not already. (I know the answer, you are not omniscient) And as for just randomly giving charity, I find that it has no outcome on good over all. Everything is just as bad, worse even, year after year. Which is why I have asked god to show me how to do something for people that can actually help in the long run, using any and all talents/resources he has given me… but alas, it really seems useless as his plan is for people to suffer.. because they do. and he is good and righteous in all things.
>attend Mass,
I see no scripture telling me to attend catholic ceremony/ritual. (nor do I see any scripture telling me to worship a man in an ivory tower as God)
>confess your sins, and God grace will be your sincerity.
I try to confess any and all sins to god each time I pray, I also ask for forgiveness and to be worthy to be tasked with giving him glory in anyway I can ( despite that seeming absurd to think one can give god glory that he does not have)
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f9259e No.827372
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f9259e No.827373
>>827330
Amazing how all I said was that I did not remember where Jesus spoke of his hate.. and instead of people being honest about what is in the bible using Jesus's words.. they try to circumvent his teachings, using their own words as a sword - to cut it to shape their own personal interpretation.
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9840ed No.827376
>>827373
>and instead of people being honest about what is in the bible using Jesus's words
That is exactly what you got you disingenuous kike. winnie the pooh off.
>they try to circumvent his teachings
That is what YOU are doing. You were given direct quotes. You ignore them and say "that's not real you are twisting it". You are a reprobate and you will not see heaven.
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f9259e No.827378
>>827376
Yes, you quoted the bible. Not once did I see Jesus use the word hate.
As for the rest of your post, I am just sad that I have to deal with this crap, the narcissism and rage directed at me trying to have a discussion. I don't think I was rude to you, but it does not seem to matter one bit. Please just go away if you are this upset, I am not going to sit here and continually be insulted and cursed at and continue responding.
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ed0a4a No.827381
>>827373
>instead of people being honest about what is in the bible using Jesus's words.. they try to circumvent his teachings, using their own words as a sword
I tried to respond to you plainly using scripture and you accuse me of circumventing Jesus's teachings without providing a counter-interpretation. Now I understand why the other guy is going off on you.
>Yes, you quoted the bible. Not once did I see Jesus use the word hate.
No, that was me. And your argument is about is meaningful as when Muslims demand you show them where Jesus said
<I am God, worship me
He doesn't have to say the word "hate." It's obvious to anyone reading the texts I showed you with honest intentions. Heck, read them in context, the whole chapter, and it will still be abundantly clear that not only is Jesus implying that the people He's referencing are going to be in hell, but He personally does not like them. Yes, God has the capacity for hate, including Jesus.
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7d79c1 No.827383
>(Is it) deception that I be concerned about Jesus literally being a jewish rabbi?
I read the New Testament as a commentary on the Old. More often than not, Jesus' teachings are equivalent to Judaism. That said…
>I know evil is best at deceiving
>When you look into judaism, you see it has multiple tiers of control and secrecy. Near the top is the talmud and kaballah, which essentially boils down to how to control the masses.
You've been misled by others as to what Judaism is. Karl Marx, Friedrich Nietzsche, and other (usually German) atheists have been s—ting on religions like ours with critiques like these for two hundred years. Generally speaking, these "thinkers" pretended that religion is evil only after they conflicted with their edgy new justifications for selfish behaviors and religious discoveries that you could buy in their latest book for the low, low price of $19.99.
Neither Judaism, nor the Talmud, nor the Kabbalah boil down to "how to control the masses." If you boiled down Judaism, you would instead find a set of laws derived from the commandments from the Old Testament. The Talmud collects rabbinical elaborations and discussions in relation to those commandments, and if you don't object to the Pentateuch, then you have no reason to fear the Talmud, which is a restatement of them. The Kabbalah comprises Jewish esotericism, from which much of Christian esotericism (but not all of it) is derived. You're welcome to read any of these books when you're ready to stop worrying that they might be evil.
>>827234
>Jesus was born a jew in the line of David like prophecy foretold.
Both of the genealogies I've seen in the New Testament (Matthew and Luke) are those of Joseph, who by the same accounts (again, Matthew and Luke) did not have sex with Mary before the birth of Jesus. The Prophets did not speak of God himself impregnating a woman as Zeus impregnates Leda in the pagan pantheon. I'd rather not debate this point in this thread, but I think you can lead the OP to Jesus without trying to convince him that I'm evil.
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238578 No.827390
>>827383
>and if you don't object to the Pentateuch, then you have no reason to fear the Talmud, which is a restatement of them.
Are you kidding me, dude? The Talmud is a restatement of God's commandments? Please elaborate how the very traditions that Jesus condemned in the New Testament are somehow restatements of His own commandments. Rabbis = Pharisees. Have you actually read Matthew 23?
Please explain to me how Lilith is in any meaningful way derived from the Torah.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/lilith
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/lilith-lady-flying-in-darkness/ I found this gem as well when trying to find the Midrash reference for the story about Adam "taking a break" from Eve and sleeping with Lilith after Abel's death. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find it, but this other thing is pretty good too. The paragraph is about half way down the page.
>In the Kabbalah, Lilith takes on cosmic power. She is a chaotic counterpart to the Shekhinah (the feminine Divine Presence, the bride of the Infinite). In fact, the imagines that while the Jews suffer in exile, the Holy One (the masculine aspect of the Divine) separates from the Shekhinah, and consorts with Lilith. Lilith’s sexual-spiritual link with the Divine will only end when the Messiah comes and the brokenness in the world is mended.
TOTALLY HARMLESS, AMIRITE?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein_Sof
Or how about the Ein Sof and the tzimtzum? God "contracting" Himself to make space for creation? 100% derived from the Torah!
And tell me, supposed Catholic, what do you say of Pope Gregory IX's decision in the 12th century to confiscate and later burn Talmuds in France, resulting in the execution of 3,000 Jews? http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5277-donin-nicholas-of-la-rochelle What do you suppose the Pope found in those books that merited this kind of a response?
Did you really think that none of us look into the content of these books? You're fortunate that I have to go take care of something or this list would be much longer. The Zohar and the Talmud are books of blasphemy.
>The Kabbalah comprises Jewish esotericism, from which much of Christian esotericism (but not all of it) is derived.
Which Christian esotericism?
>did not have sex with Mary before the birth of Jesus
Entirely accurate, but you just outed yourself as not being an orthodox Roman Catholic. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Rome declared the perpetual virginity of Mary a dogma a very long time ago.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/mary-ever-virgin
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7d79c1 No.827394
>>827390
>supposed Catholic
>you just outed yourself as not being an orthodox Roman Catholic
Your devotion to me puts a smile on my face, (1)-kun.
Those of you who worry about whether or not Jews are evil should try reading the Talmud in the context of the Torah instead of trusting schizophrenic political extremists to spoon-feed you without adulteration. For example, did you know that the Talmud has a tractate on how to treat gonorrhea? I'm guessing that you didn't, because Zavim isn't among the cherry-picked passages that I've seen spread by Judeophobes as propaganda. >>827390 too advertises his own post as being about the Talmud, but beyond briefly discussing the genealogy of Jesus, it entirely deals with Kabbalah. As punishment to >>827390 for his violation of the Ninth Commandment, I'll be using this tractate on purity as my example of the Talmud for this thread.
Leviticus 15:1–12 entirely deals with "discharge from the member"–I'll pass on pasting all twelve verses here–and Zavim, a tractate from the Talmud's Tohorot, elaborates on the meaning behind these verses. The gist of them is that when we have an improper semen-like discharge from our penes, we are commanded to thoroughly wash ourselves and what we've touched for a week. The Talmud expands on these verses in by citing rabbis describing the discharge in more detail–enough for us to know that this referred to gonorrhea–and that the things in need of cleaning are not limited to seats and saddles. Zavim (as with most of Tohorot) is like this: it's a restatement (mishnah) of the commandment (mitzvah). One tractate in the Tohorot, Niddah, concerning menstruating women, also includes comments (gemara) from several authorities that, along with the elaborations of Leviticus 15:19–30 et cetera, were written so that women could better follow the biblical commandments and take better care of themselves and their loved ones.
This is all the Talmud is: elaboration of the commandments. I hope this helps the OP understand it better.
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238578 No.827398
>>827394
>Your devotion to me puts a smile on my face, (1)-kun.
I was replying to this thread before you got here, tripfag. The IDs change. Do you deny my accusation that you are not really a Roman Catholic?
>Those of you who worry about whether or not Jews are evil should try reading the Talmud in the context of the Torah
I COMPLETELY AGREE. People should take a look at it for themselves and see if they can make heads or tails of it.
>For example, did you know that the Talmud has a tractate on how to treat gonorrhea?
Did you know that the Hadith has a passage about the health benefits of camel urine?
https://metro.co.uk/2015/06/11/bad-news-for-anyone-who-likes-to-drink-camel-urine-5240920/
>Judeophobes
Don't you mean bigoted antisemites? Oy vey.
>but beyond briefly discussing the genealogy of Jesus, it entirely deals with Kabbalah.
Regardless, are you going to respond to anything I said? Especially Kabbalah, which you were also defending? Many Rabbis have also been Kabbalists, so Kabbalistic thinking makes it way into Midrashic literature. It's not like you can really separate the two.
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-zohar/
>According to traditional Jewish belief, the Zohar was revealed by God to Moses at Sinai
This is very widespread, not fringe.
>a tractate from the Talmud's Tohorot, elaborates on the meaning behind these verses.
Yes goyim, listen to the interpretations of the people who rejected their Messiah. You can trust them to interpret the Torah properly even though they didn't in the days of the apostles!
>This is all the Talmud is: elaboration of the commandments.
That's correct, and that's exactly the problem. Sometimes that "elaboration" is rather… Fanciful.
For example, https://www.sefaria.org/Eruvin.18b?lang=bi Eruvin 18b
>Rabbi Yirmeya ben Elazar also said: Adam was first created with two [deyo] faces, one male and the other female. As it is stated: “You have formed me behind and before, and laid Your hand upon me” (Psalms 139:5). Similarly, it is written: “And the tzela, which the Lord, God, had taken from the man, He made a woman, and brought her unto the man” (Genesis 2:22). Rav and Shmuel disagree over the meaning of the word tzela: One said: It means a female face, from which God created Eve; and one said: Adam was created with a tail [zanav], which God removed from him and from which He created Eve.
>The Gemara raises an objection from a baraita: Rabbi Meir would say: Adam the first man was very pious. When he saw that death was imposed as a punishment because of him, he observed a fast for a hundred thirty years, and he separated from his wife for a hundred thirty years, and wore belts [zarzei] of fig leaves on his body as his only garment for a hundred thirty years. If so, how did he father demons into the world?
>The Gemara answers: When Rabbi Yirmeya made his statement, he meant that those destructive creatures were formed from the semen that Adam accidentally emitted, which brought the destructive creatures into being.
Tell me, tripfag, why aren't you bringing out these lovely pieces of the Talmud? Don't you think Christians would find them useful for interpreting Genesis?
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3967c8 No.827458
(OP here, not sure if I have diff ID again)
As for >>827398 , not sure which poster you were in this thread before, but regardless, I appreciate you effort posting. You certainly know more about the talmud/torah/kabbalah teachings/history than I do…
And thats what irks me, because its difficult to get any real answer on it. The best I could do was literally go to sacred-texts.com, grab every single jewish text there, scrape random talmud page copies, and listen to rabbis on youtube talk about the "oral torah" all the while imagining they are lying about most of it.
With all of the work put in to the absolute ridiculous amount of code in the talmud and torah (and bible OT/NT).. I have to think there is something there.
But then again, I also have to consider its just more deception and riddles… but I cannot be sure.
I wish more people were concerned about this stuff, if one really wanted to be righteous in the eyes of God, it seems he would take the time to weed out the BS by investigating it.
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15fff0 No.827486
>>827458
>(OP here, not sure if I have diff ID again)
Just assume that it's going to be different every time you restart your browser or clear cookies.
>not sure which poster you were in this thread before
>>827234
>>827266
>>827267
>>827330
>>827381
>>827390
I think I got them all… I'm here to answer difficult questions, but I am no substitute for a pastor. A good pastor can be far more nurturing than I can. Especially through this platform. Spiritual nurture might be what you need, what you're missing. It's hard to say. If you're a sheep, sheep don't do well when they get separated from the flock. There's definitely more going on in your case than merely the intellectual component.
>I appreciate you effort posting.
You're welcome.
>You certainly know more about the talmud/torah/kabbalah teachings/history than I do…
I'm no expert on the Talmud or Kabbalah, but I know enough to know what they really represent. Maybe one day God will give me the will to become intimately familiar with those multi-volume sets of records and commentary so that I can become adept at refuting them, but that just wouldn't be productive for me right now. Heck, I'm pretty sure that there's a ton of it that hasn't even been translated from Hebrew yet.
>And thats what irks me, because its difficult to get any real answer on it.
Unfortunately there are a lot of misrepresentations out there of what the Talmud and Kaballah entail, so I know what you mean. That's why I provided links to actual Jewish sources, so that it isn't just my opinions. Sometimes the Talmud's commentary on passages is okay, but other times they really miss the mark. Plus the presentation format is atrocious. Frankly, the few things of value that could potentially be found in the Talmud are much better related in old Christian commentaries on the same texts. Why would anyone bother going to the commentaries of the people that Jesus condemned, when they could go to the commentaries of people who actually believed that Jesus is the Messiah? Frankly, I don't understand the appeal.
>ridiculous amount of code in the talmud and torah (and bible OT/NT)..
Code in the Talmud, yes. For a number of reasons, sometimes quite understandable ones, Rabbis have had to speak in code over the centuries to avoid execution or confiscation of their texts. Code in the Torah/Tanakh and the NT? Not so much, unless you count certain stuff in Revelation. Not sure where you got that idea from. Can you give me an example of a supposed riddle or code in the actual bible that you've run into? I'm more than happy to deal directly with scripture.
>I wish more people were concerned about this stuff
You and me both. I hope that one day soon we'll get back to a lifestyle in the States where people aren't worked to death and actually have time for family, study, and genuine discipleship. For now I just want to help people get a grasp of this stuff.
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15fff0 No.827487
>>827486
>>827458
Whoops, I got confused. >>827234 is not me, I am a Calvinist and a predeterminist. The rest are mine though, just checked them again. His formatting is similar to mine and I think I spent some time looking at his post a few days ago because I meant to reply, but then got sidetracked.
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3967c8 No.827548
>>827487
How do you reconcile parts of the NT like this:
>18 While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, “My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live.” 19 Jesus got up and went with him, and so did his disciples.
>20 Just then a woman who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak. 21 She said to herself, “If I only touch his cloak, I will be healed.”
>22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
>23 When Jesus entered the synagogue leader’s house and saw the noisy crowd and people playing pipes, 24 he said, “Go away. The girl is not dead but asleep.” But they laughed at him. 25 After the crowd had been put outside, he went in and took the girl by the hand, and she got up. 26 News of this spread through all that region.
To me, this looks like a jewish rabbi, working with Jesus to pull off a "miracle"
everyone leaves the room. and Jesus "Revives" a rabbis daughter.
Why are we supposed to believe this being a miracle seeing as how much jews trick people today?
I literally want to believe with full sincerity. I really want to.
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3967c8 No.827549
>>827548
and how does news spread so winnie the pooh easily and fast when blasphemy earned you death in these jewish controlled places?
why are jewish leaders constantly playing roles in Jesus rise to fame?
i literally feel stupid even considering Jesus wasnt controlled opposition. he seems so good, and godly, but there are things about his story that stink so bad i cannot help but question them. i wish it wasnt this way.
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ab3107 No.827553
>>827548
You're forgetting that the rabbis were overwhelmingly against Jesus
If the situation of that one is too suspect then just look to the many other more public miracle healings.
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3967c8 No.827556
>>827553
>You're forgetting that the rabbis were overwhelmingly against Jesus
Well yea, it wouldn't be controlled opposition without public opposition. (not saying it is, merely saying thats how controlled opposition works)
>f the situation of that one is too suspect then just look to the many other more public miracle healings.
I have, and of course it is irrelevant to me still, as I said in my original post, if the bible was written by jews, in the jewish language, and came from a jewish land, they can say anything that want. I was not there. I know I must take it on faith, but that is where I am having trouble and prayer does not seem to help.
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ab3107 No.827558
>>827556
Greek is not a Jewish language
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7ec85b No.827594
>>827558
>Greek is not a Jewish language
OY VEY, ANTISEMITE!
>>827548
>Why are we supposed to believe this being a miracle seeing as how much jews trick people today?
Well there are plenty of other miracles that were done involving gentiles, but even then you have to deal with the fact that the New Testament was written almost entirely by Greek speaking Hebrews… Except maybe Luke and Acts, since it seems fairly likely that Luke was actually Greek given the kind of language he uses.
Here's the deal… Ignore the miracles if you want, for now anyway. We are Europeans, yes? Truth is what actually concerns us, not signs. Listen to what Jesus and the apostles are actually teaching in the New Testament, specifically. What are they trying to get people to do? What kind of values are they trying to instill? Who are their enemies and why? What kind of character do they have? Do they look or sound like the Jews you know? Do they think like the Jews you know? Are these the Destroyers of Nations?
…Or do you hear something else? Something warm, perhaps?
From John 10, Jesus speaking.
<“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.
<“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
<I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”
He is speaking to some Jews and the "other sheep" He mentions are gentiles. The question is, do you recognize His voice? Do you see the truth in what He says? Do you detect any malice toward gentiles in Him? Because I'll tell you what I've noticed… Throughout the gospels, when Jesus is talking to people, I can't find even a single instance in which He has anything negative to say about gentiles. In fact, He very frequently praises Greek and Roman gentiles over against the Jews, which He frequently has words of criticism or condemnation for. He even prayed for the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers that hung Him on the cross and gambled for his clothes, because He recognized that they were oblivious to what they were doing and Who they were doing it to.
But hypothetically, let's say that He were a trojan horse… Where's the trick? What's the viral payload that He's trying to sneak in on the goyim? Because what Christianity did was cause a huge increase in "antisemitism" because the Jews are credited with killing Jesus. I've gone through the scriptures with a fine tooth comb, and I see no trace of poison. I can't even find any ideological inconsistencies in them.
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7ec85b No.827595
>>827556
Another interesting thing that I think would be useful to point out… The Romans are not the bad guys in the New Testament. To the contrary, throughout the entirety of the New Testament are prophecies of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, both from Jesus and the apostles. Obviously that happened, and it was always the Romans who were supposed to bring about that destruction. God was literally using the Romans to judge the Jews, and Jesus was waving aircraft marshalling batons the whole time telling His followers to flee the city for Pella when they see certain signs, so that they won't get caught up in the mayhem. This was decades in advance.
If this was written by Rabbis, wouldn't it be pretty strange for them to concoct an elaborate, theological justification for the Roman army's slaughtering them and their followers by the thousands and completely dismantling their holy city and temple?
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e5f755 No.830046
>>827228
If you are still there OP, it might be because you are reading/hearing corrupted word of God thus it doesn't carry the same power of God. Hear the Gospel again in the preserved word of God and see if you feel the draw. You may need to hear it more than once. Also check out the other documentary and the sermon.
Gospel Presentation
https://youtu.be/22qJGPXTJB0
Once Saved, Always Saved: a must watch sermon for Christians who are not sure of their salvation or have doubted it before.
https://youtu.be/hycjHApNNOM
NWO Bible Versions: Exposes all the corrupt modern bibles like the niv, esv, nkjv, nasb, Why you should be KJV onlyist if you are an English speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtI_mVOXbQ
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