/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

At the risk of replying to a baitpost, I would like to advise OP and any others looking at this thread that his line of thinking veers awfully close to that of Marcionism, which centers around a false delineation between the OT "Just, Yet Fair" God and NT "Lenient and Flowery" God.

This delineation is inherently false in that it attempts to create two separate deities out of the one Deity worthy of worship, a heresy made all the more concerning by the Lord's assertion that "you have forsaken me, and have worshipped strange gods: therefore I will deliver you no more: Go and call upon the gods which you have chosen: let them deliver you in the time of distress (Judges 10:13-14)" and that "If you oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, and walk not after strange gods to your own hurt, I will dwell with you in this place (Jeremias 7:6-7)."

From a casual observer's perspective, the heresy of Marcionism seems to be on the rise, and may ultimately end up sitting next to Arianism as a commonly accepted heresy in mainstream circles; this is unsurprising, given the rising prevalence of Gnosticism itself through channels such as the """Church""" of Scientology and Jordan Peterson. It is a concerning development, to be sure, with respect to the visibility of orthodox Christendom, but certainly is not a shocking one given the mainstreaming of such aberrations as secularism, homosexualism in its various forms, public Satanic worship and the ritualized murder of children both within and without the womb, among others.

>>826314

>heart worship

That's Nestorian…

8TH ANATHEMA OF SAINT CYRIL

If anyone shall dare to say that the assumed man ought to be worshipped together with God the Word, and glorified together with him, and recognised together with him as God, and yet as two different things, the one with the other (for this “Together with” is added [i.e., by the Nestorians] to convey this meaning); and shall not rather with one adoration worship the Emmanuel and pay to him one glorification, as [it is written] “The Word was made flesh”: let him be anathema.

>>826316

>heart worship

>Nestorian

<clearly has no conception of devotion to the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts of our Lord and Lady, a longstanding component of authentic Catholic worship

ok, prot troll.

>>826317

It's you that cannot comprehend the anathema. You're adoring a human part of the Theanthropos apart from His Person.

>longstanding component of authentic Catholic worship

It's barely 300 years old, and the Roman church forbid similar heart devotions in the past.

>>826588

>no matter how many times I cite Jesus saying to follow the OT and Jesus saying he is the OT God, it just never sticks with these heretics

It is aggravating and causes the blood to boil, but much like S/S, S/F, and personal interpretation of Scripture being of equal validity to that of dogmatic and Traditional interpretations*, we mostly have the prevalence of protestantism and Arianism within the West to thank for it.

Even the more cerebral of these people that eventually come across the broad cache of supporting evidence and apolegetica will be disinclined to come to the intellectually and devotionally honest side of the fence, leaving their devotion to our Eucharistic Lord in a lukewarm state of tepidness at best; as we know, He takes a rather dim view of these individuals, having said Himself that "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. [14] "The Amen,": that is, the true one, the Truth itself; the Word and Son of God. The beginning– that is, the principle, the source, and the efficient cause of the whole creation. [16] But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth" (Apoc 3:15-16).

Again, it is as heartrending as it is enragening. Even moreso for those folks who deny the Divinity of Christ but double down on His humanity, leaving a confused shamble of theology and sacramental structure in their wake. Or those, for that matter, who deny not only the Blessed Trinity, but also the Humanity of our Eucharistic Prince, leaving a confused form of hyper-monotheism that puts God the Father in the corner while worshiping a bizarre New Age depiction of Our Christ (see INC [I think], AOG, etc). And the less said about gnosticism and the various neo-gnosticisms, in their various forms, the better - that is another thread altogether.

Having griped for several paragraphs about the matter, I'd like to balance the post out by posting some counterpoints to this bizarre heresy. So whip out the AKJV translation Bibles, boys. We're going in.

>>826621

Prior to the birth of our Christ, the Only Son of the Eternal Father, in the cave of Bethlehem (Luke 2:1-7), the Blessed Virgin Mary visited St. Elizabeth, mother-to-be of St. John the Baptist and holy spouse of St. Zacharias, high priest of the Jerusalem Temple of the Old Covenant, for a five-month period prior to the birth of he who would come before the Christ and would be the one to baptize His earthly Personage (Luke 1:24-25 and John 1:15; cf. the passage in Luke to the betrothal of Patriarch Aaron to Elizabeth bat Aminadab in Exodus 6:23).

This was after the Annunciation of St. John the Baptist to St. Zechariah as he served in the Temple's Tabernacle, the dwelling place of the Lord's shechina per His agreement with the Hebrews prior to the revelation of the New Covenant of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 1:9-15, Luke 1:19-20); the dumbening of St. Zechariah is to be compared to the graciousness and acceptance displayed by the Virgin on the day of her own Annunciation, up to and including her Spiritually inspired coining of the Magnificat prayer that we use to this day (Luke 1:26-30, Luke 1:46-55).

Since the protestants and neckbeardposters here love weaponizing ambiguities here on /christian/, I draw explicit attention to the symbology at play here - though the holy husband of the once-barren St. Elizabeth has been blessed with child, he is silenced until the birth of St. John the Baptist, typologically indicating a shuttering of the Old Covenant to give way to the new; contrarily, the Living Tabernacle of the Holy Ghost and mother-to-be of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth, openly embraced the coming of the Living Fulfillment and Embodiment of the New and Eternal Covenant, a point driven further by her beautiful recitation of the Magnificat to St. Elizabeth.

Eight days after our Gracious Lord's Incarnation in Bethlehem, and the subsequent flight into Egypt necessitated by the slaughter of the 144,000 Holy Innocents, first holy martyrs of our Lord Jesus Christ at the order of King Herod of Judah (Matthew 2:14 and 2:16), our Virgin Mother underwent the ritual cleansing required of women under the Old Covenant in spite of her perpetual sinlessness and presented the Child Jesus for circumcision along with the two pigeons required for all firstborn males per the Old Covenant (Gen 21:4, Num 7:54-59, Gen 2:29-30, Lev 5:7-10, Lk 2:21-40). Upon the Child's later discovery in the Temple at age thirteen, having stayed behind in the Jerusalem area to argue with the Jews and, ostensibly, plant the first seeds of knowledge regarding His Divinity in the collective psyche of the Jews' elders, the now-adolescent Christ answered Mother Mary's concern with a simple affirmation that he "must be about [his] Father's business," further hinting at his abrogation of the longstanding Old Covenant upheld to the point of His Incarnation by the Jews and remaining private knowledge up to the Institution of the Holy Eucharist at the Last Supper (Luke 2:40-50; 2 Kings 23:5, Luke 22:7-20).

>>826622

>>826621

Naturally, the Institution of the New Covenant and accompanying abrogation of the old one was a very sensitive subject, and one that could not be addressed directly or discussed publicly during the Christ's thirty-three years on this Earth lest He draw further negative attention to Himself or His Disciples; this was clearly not the only deciding factor, and due to a variety of other factors, including His status as true Messiah and of the Old Covenant, as well as the volatile nature of the human psyche, the Jews of Jerusalem and the surrounding areas were none too pleased with his presence among them nor for his status as de-facto King of them (viz. Romans 2:7-8, 2:16-24, John 19:7, 19:14-22, and so on). In spite of this, the Jews still acknowledged their guilt in the bloodshed of the Christ, admitting to Him during His Passion that "His Blood be upon us and our children" and later being condemned as a group that composes the synagogue of Satan during Christ's Apocalyptic Revelation to St. John the Apostle (Matt 27:25, Apoc 2:9; conf. with Acts 14:1, Gen 9:6, Gen 37:26).

This post mostly addresses the Christ's fulfillment of the Old Covenant and replacing it with the New and Irreplaceable Covenant of His Eternal Kingship, along with the typological signifiers and symbologies representing them in the Scripture, but many of the same arguments could be made for the Christ's identity as the same God as the Eternal Father who had revealed Himself in OT times; since this post alone took a decent amount of time to drum up, I'll probably not be going too far down that road. But the main points have already been made in this thread, junkposting pseudopolemicism about """heart worship""" in the Latin Tradition aside. I've written enough!

And I don't really expect anyone to read this post in full, but it was irking me and I felt pushed by the Holy Ghost to hack that out. So here we are. I could have gone even more into the weeds with regard to details from non-Biblical sources, but I felt it best to stick to the Scripture for the widest degree of accessibility. Hope it helps out anyone who may stumble upon it and learn something from it. (^_<)〜☆

+Sancta Maria, Mater Christi, ora pro nobis peccatoribus nunc et in hora mortis nostrae, et Gloria in excelsis Dio.

Amen.+

* Unrelated matters, I acknowledge, but no less pertinent as the main subject of my post!

>>826651

>>826673

Apocalypse 12:1-2

>And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon >under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried >travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.

ibid. v. 12:10

>And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the >kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is >cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

ibid. v. 12-16

>Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. [13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: [14] And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

>And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up >the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was angry against the >woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of >God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.