27e06d No.825773
____________________________
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27e06d No.825774
kill your self fedora tigger
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2a496b No.825781
>>825773
I don't believe (you) exist.
Change my mind.
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4c9811 No.825787
>>825773
Read St.Aquinas tbh;
On the contrary, It is said in the person of God: "I am Who am." (Exodus 3:14)
I answer that, The existence of God can be proved in five ways.
The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
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976ca8 No.825792
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af3168 No.825811
>>825792
>ockham disagrees
idk I feel like the idea that God created the world is simpler than the idea that somehow nothing became something because quantum physics.
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976ca8 No.825825
>>825811
I think that was the point
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4968f3 No.825838
>>825811
Saying that anything in the universe could create the universe is also shortsighted. I know it can be hard to wrap your mind around, but quantum physics only work the way they do because the universe has these properties to it. These properties are part of existence, and they had to come from somewhere too.
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620c14 No.825840
Sacred music is pure bliss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdhKvj7BLXI
Profane music is pure shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFjoOOPU6Xo
Sacred philosophy is pure knowledge: Do to others as you would have them do to you. (Luke 6:31)
Profane philosophy is pure shit: There are no facts, only interpretations. (Nietzche)
And the list goes on. Everything connected to God is beautiful and everything disconnected is terrible.
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38c56b No.825841
>>825792
>The existence of God cannot be proven by logical means
<Begging the question this hard
>Conflating "science" with "logic"
>The conclusion doesn't even follow the premises, not a valid syllogism
>Would be fallacious even if properly structured since ockam's razor isn't a strict logical rule, the simplest explanation isn't certainly the correct one
>Not even attempting to justify the position that existence not being the result of God is "simpler" than existence being the result of God
>Doesn't rigorously define what "simple" means or how it could apply to abstract ideas or situations, the real nature of which it would be impossible to entirely comprehend
>Implying I should accept that spider man is more likely to exist than napoleon because his character is simpler and I can't objectively verify the existence of either (accepting someone else's testimony is a matter of faith)
The ABSOLUTE STATE. I hope that graphic isn't from a philosophy textbook.
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976ca8 No.825863
>>825838
>>825841
Anon, I thought the picture was saying that the simplest answer for the existance of the universe is that God created it, and as such the 5 ways are unnecessary and thus invalid.
I guess I was wrong
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70aa59 No.825896
>>825773
This board is so reddit-tier cucked I'm questioning whether making you Christian is even healthy.
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cbccb7 No.825898
>>825896
You are more than free to go back where you came from than.
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40ef80 No.825968
>>825787
>blah blah blah
>>825774
Brilliant argument. Pic related.
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40ef80 No.825969
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>>825841
>Begging the question this hard
The entirety of the five ways is begging the question. You accuse the infograph of not "rigorously" defining what "simple" means, but Aquinas doesn't define what "perfect" means. Also, "proof" is only applicable to math and logic, not metaphysical concepts like God and the afterworld. These things do require faith.
>>825840
>Sacred music is pure bliss
The "sacred music" you posted is pure trash. This is sacred music, cucked trad.
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976ca8 No.825971
>>825896
So your one of those people who only pretend to believe a religion because you think doing so is useful for some goal that you've decided is worthwhile?
>>825968
Imagine being this assblasted that someone called you a fedorafag
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40ef80 No.825972
>>825971
>someone called you a fedorafag
I'm not a fedora. I'm actually this poster >>825969.
My point is that calling someone a "fedora" is a shit-tier way of engaging unbelievers.
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976ca8 No.825973
>>825972
Yeah, but it's more to point out that the atheists who are proud of being atheists aren't as cool as they make themselves out to be, and are often angsty teenagers with daddy-issues, fat-asses, or both.
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976ca8 No.825974
>>825972
Also
>"out of context"
Is almost if not always valid, in my experience. Almost every an 'incriminating' Bible verse has been brought up the problem is it being taken out of context. In the other times it is only "incriminating" from modernist mindsets e.g. gay is bad
>In-depth discussions about the Bible are a waste of time
This is a valid criticism, but usually people have better things to do than spend hours argue online with some random person who won't change their mind
>Accuse the other party of not "studying the bible"
The apologest should explain things to the unbeliever yes. That said, the unbeliever is at least in part responisble for their lack of knowledge, especially if the criticisms are the same tired and patently false ones
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1dc035 No.825984
>>825968
>not an argument
>argument too big
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40ef80 No.825991
>>825974
>Almost every an 'incriminating' Bible verse has been brought up the problem is it being taken out of context
So what’s the context for god killing a bunch of children for making fun of a bald guy?
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40ef80 No.825992
>>825974
>but usually people have better things to do
>frequent image board users
Doubt.jpg
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e1d226 No.826001
>>825773
Why should I?
Bro, the only reason I believe is because I am unsure whether God exists or not.
However, I'd prefer if he did, I like to think that I exist for a purpose and that good/bad deeds get rewards accordingly.
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38c56b No.826002
>>825969
Except logic is totally applicable to metaphysics brainlet. Also he does define it as something (e.g. a particular virtue) to it's greatest extent, and the concept of "perfection" isn't essential to all of the 5 ways besides that. You're clearly a posturing midwit who doesn't know what "begging the question" means, the retard okham argument literally assumes god cannot be proven logically in it's first premise, which is also the argument's conclusion. The assumption that God must exist isn't in any of the premises for the 5 ways, you're just a moron.
And again, ockham's razor isn't a law of logic and as presented the argument WASN'T EVEN A LOGICALLY VALID SYLLOGISM, sorry you're brain dead and can't tell a coherent argument from a faulty one.
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40ef80 No.826006
>>826002
>Except logic is totally applicable to metaphysics brainlet
Without empirical data, you can't confirm any argument that you make. It's funny how you call others "brainlet", but you don't even know the scope of logic. And thanks for the "charitable" response. I'd love to be in a church setting with you.
> the concept of "perfection" isn't essential to all of the 5 ways besides that
And I said that when? I simply used that as an example of an ill defined term in the infograph.
>You're clearly a posturing midwit who doesn't know what "begging the question" means
Begging the question means that you assume the conclusion in the premises. Example: there has to be an intelligent being (premise), therefore God exists (conclusion). The last premises don't exactly say "god", but what they're describing is clearly implying a god. But I guess that would depend on your definition of a god. I'd like to know what being can be "absolutely perfect", "the first efficient cause", and "absolutely necessary" without being a god. Also, what's a midwit?
>And again, ockham's razor isn't a law of logic
I didn't say anything about ockham's razor. Putting words in other people's mouth is a terrible way to have a conversation. But it's to be expected on a sperg infected site like this.
>sorry you're brain dead and can't tell a coherent argument from a faulty one
What the hell does "coherent argument" mean? Are you saying that's equivalent of a cogent (because metaphysical arguments can never be deductive) or strong argument?
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976ca8 No.826028
>>825991
Forgive me for copying an pasting
"We read how Elisha, the prophet of God, was entering one of the worst places in the corrupt and decadent nation of Israel. Although Bethel was called “the House of God,” what should have been a holy place was a center of idolatry and immorality where the “sons of God” were vastly outnumbered by those who taunted and trashed the faith of Elijah and Elisha! Bethel was so bad that a gang of young teenagers “harassed” Elisha, taunting him to leave them and their town alone and go off to be with his God (as Elijah had done).
Gleason Archer puts everything in perspective when he describes this large roving band of teenagers as “a serious public danger, quite as grave as the large youth gangs that roam the ghetto sections of our modern American cities.” The Apologetics Study Bible explains: “The Hebrew phrase for ‘small boys’ refers to adolescents from 12 to 30 years old (see I Samuel 20:35; I Kings 3:7; 11:17). It is unlikely that these youths were younger than 12 years old.” Contrary to the caricature, Elisha was a young man, probably in his mid twenties, though obviously bald.
We are also reminded that the real issue was not how this gang showed contempt and “disrespect for God’s prophet,” but revealed utter “disrespect for the Lord.” Therefore, “a strong message was sent to the city and parents” reminiscent of Leviticus 26:21-22. This Scripture tells how hostility toward God and an unwillingness to obey Him can result in being besieged by plagues and wild animals.
The message was a corrective message to address current attitudes and behavior that if heeded would ward off worse sins and greater judgment. The gang was shocked and silenced when mauled (not necessarily killed) by the bears, and their parents and community were warned to repent of their sins (reflected in their children) and obey God before worse judgments befell them"
Basically, God and by extention his Prophets deserve more respect, you're not going to except this answer but that's fine.
I do wonder why you think kililng a bunch of children for making fun of a bald guy is bad when as an athiest and I assume you are, "bad" is nothing more than a personal preference
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620c14 No.826058
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>>825969
There's nothing sacred about heretical LARPers playing faggy flutes and keyboards. Actual sacred music, unlike this shit, is good.
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40ef80 No.826106
>>826028
> you're not going to except this answer but that's fine
So you basically wasted your time? Good.
And that copy pasta sounds like a total cope.
>oh, it says children, but they were actually 25 year olds :DDD
>b-but they were public danger, even though the text doesn't say that
winnie the pooh off.
>I do wonder why you think kililng a bunch of children for making fun of a bald guy is bad when as an athiest
First of all, I'm not an atheist. Secondly, it's called having a conscious and human empathy. Isn't it interesting how plenty of highly secular countries don't have high murder rates?
>>826058
>faggy flutes
Found the 11 year old.
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620c14 No.826108
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>>826106
Do you have a better descriptor for heretical folk hymns with weak woodwind accompaniment performed by weirdos in Renaissance Fair costumes on non-period instruments in the context of sacred music? Is faggy not the single best word for this?
Actual sacred art, as I've continued to prove, is the best.
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40ef80 No.826120
>>826108
>Is faggy not the single best word for this?
Yeah, if you're a 11 year old boy. Piss off kid.
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620c14 No.826133
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>>826120
I wonder if all nonbelievers are as delicate as you.
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7ce659 No.826135
>>826108
You're the kind of edgelord who would shriek at Bach for playing a *gasp* keyboard! Keep clutching at those pearls, child.
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37d844 No.826142
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976ca8 No.826150
>>826120
spotted the normalfag
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976ca8 No.826156
>>826106
>And that copy pasta sounds like a total cope.
>I'm too lazy to look for an answer myself so I'll demand random people to provide me one as though they are theologians and then say their answers are "a total cope" when they don't appeal to my modern sensibilities
>Found the 11 year old
You're clearly from cuckchan, you should stay there
>I'm not an atheist
Sure you aren't
>>826106
>t's called having a conscious and human empathy
Why must to have a "conscious and human empathy"? In atheism, the answer is ultimately "we don't" as there is no intrsinisc obligation to follow them, only personal preference which is no more valid than the personal preference to murder grannies
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