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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 6ee05223bad8a56⋯.jpg (98.78 KB, 900x600, 3:2, jesus in desert.jpg)

5761c1  No.824190

I'm looking for serious answers in how to handle this document from the Vatican. It's been making me question the validity of the catholic faith. In one paragraph it says

>Since God has never revoked his covenant with his people Israel, there cannot be different paths or approaches to God’s salvation. The theory that there may be two different paths to salvation, the Jewish path without Christ and the path with the Christ, whom Christians believe is Jesus of Nazareth, would in fact endanger the foundations of Christian faith…the Church and Judaism cannot be represented as "two parallel ways to salvation", but that the Church must "witness to Christ as the Redeemer for all" (No.I, 7). The Christian faith confesses that.. there is no "other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved

Yet in the next it says

From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jews are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God.

How can jews be saved if not through Christ by believing in Him?

____________________________
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2657f1  No.824191

How is that a reason for not believing in christ and getting on your knees every day and worshiping him and accepting that god needed his killing and blood sacrifice because of the sins you have committed in your life?

looks like you are finding nitpicky reasons to deny Christ Jesus, our personal Lord and Savior peace be upon him

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57ad5d  No.824194

Be suspicious of anything that has come out after Pius XII. No, I am not Sedevacantist, but it's a good measure to keep your sanity.

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dce817  No.824201

>>824194

>Be suspicious of anything that has come out after Pius XII. No, I am not Sedevacantist, but it's a good measure to keep your sanity.

Faith in the church is not the place for suspicion friend, either have faith or don't, what you are doing is for the prots and cafeteria catholics

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f08154  No.824209

>>824190

>It's been making me question the validity of the catholic faith.

inb4 you get banned for heresy.

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4313fc  No.824211

>>824190

It's to represent a new direction with converting jews to Christianity in opposition to the previous policy with them which at time saw them as unapprochable with the Gospel. It doesn't excuse them for unbelief in Christ as the Son of God to be saved.

>>824191

>>824209

Cease such uncharitable sinposting.

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3ef4f7  No.824212

>>824191

That is not at all what he is implying. He has a legitimate question, and one that is very common among Christians, especially in america with the judaizer cult.

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dce817  No.824213

>>824212

he said he is questioning the validity of the catholic faith, he could wind up in hell for doing that, there is no salvation outside The Church

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57ad5d  No.824218

>>824201

Are you baiting? Your post is basically asking for a kooky Sede to show up and ruin this thread. I'm expecting some links to NovusOrdoWatch to show up soon.

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f2437a  No.824247

File: ead7a1dbce9a237⋯.jpg (45.08 KB, 213x268, 213:268, 1312322480191.jpg)

>It is easy to understand that the so-called “mission to the Jews” is a very delicate and sensitive matter for Jews because, in their eyes, it involves the very existence of the Jewish people. . . . The Church is therefore obliged to view evangelization to Jews . . . in a different manner from that to people of other religions and worldviews. In concrete terms this means that the Catholic Church neither conducts nor supports any specific institutional mission work directed toward Jews.

Basically, it is just Vatican 2 being diplomatic and should not be taken seriously as it is completely contradictory.

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1f53c7  No.824265

He didn't revoke but he fulfilled it.

Jesus Christ and His Word is superior to the temporary and failed Torah.

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6a4d08  No.824266

>>824190

is it a dogmatic definition? if not disregard it if it bothers you.

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6066f6  No.824270

>>824265

Didn't Jesus carry around a Torah and quote from it?

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ba89c2  No.824274

>>824265

The OT isn't failed. It perfectly did what it was supposed to do, you manichean. You can't have the new testament without the old, nor the old without the new. So jews, of course, go against both.

Regarding this document, it is filth created by a perverse person. The fact that it is in some vatican website doesn't change anything.

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f721ef  No.824284

>>824191

This.

>>824190

No salvation outside the Church OP. What's confusing you is that doesn't mean there's no "special arrangements" (eg, the Jewish Law) as it were for anyone not in the Church - I sincerely doubt Melchizidech or Moses or Elijah are in hell for example. But that's not quite the same thing as Salvation, that's just fulfilling the Law. And no, that does NOT mean every "moral Atheist" goes to heaven. Best answer is to value your Salvation in Christ, and have faith God knows best.

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f3c07c  No.824331

>>824190

>How can jews be saved if not through Christ by believing in Him?

I'll let Pius IX cover this for you (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore)

>Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.

I agree that what is said about the Jews in that document is messy and written in a diplomatic way, but it's not heresy, nor is it contradictory with what is said previously.

In fact, you should rejoice that Vatican mentioned that Christ is the only way through which there can be salvation for anyone, because I'm sure many people up there would love to drop that in favour of saying that Jews can be saved through the OT Law

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086a5b  No.825948

vatican II is evil, from my understanding. begome ordodox

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bad26c  No.825950

File: e4bdf26d35a10f2⋯.jpg (288.1 KB, 1000x1000, 1:1, 1578079393504.jpg)

>>824190

Jews reject Christ and practice a culture, morality, value system, and fundamental beliefs which are all the polar opposite of what Christ taught. They are quite literally satanists. When Jesus warned them that they were straying from God and came to clarify God's will, they rejected him. The jews rejected Christ because they were already worshiping Satan, and Christ was essentially calling them out on their shit and telling them to stop. Have you even read your Bible? Also, keep in mind that in almost all translations, judean is wrongfully translated to "jew". The jews are not, for the most part, descendants of Judeans. Not are they descendants of Shem. They are mostly the descendants of Canaanites and Edomites who rejected Christ and still do. They reject Christ because Christ told them to stop behaving like psychopaths, and this pissed them off because they are pure evil and would rather kill their own messiah than stop being evil.

The old testament is not about jews. Jews are not god's chosen. Israel is not the homeland of the jews. Jesus was not a jew.

Review these, then study your Bible and confirm it yourself.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/wa1VDt4L1UEL/

https://www.ageoflaodicea.com/hey-christian/

The KJV works fine IF you make good use of Strong's Concordance to uncover the jewish lies inserted into it.

Jews are the synagogue os Satan. Do not believe their lies. They hate Christ, they hate all life, and they are the enemy of all that is good.

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aeb026  No.825962

>>825948

If the Orthodox church is Catholic, then what's the point?

The thing to do is make sure you practice Catholicism from before Vatican II. That means Latin Mass and the older Catechism. Vatican II is in error, and contradicts Church teaching.

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0f778a  No.825977

>>824190

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441, ex cathedra: "The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum17.htm

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9f0e65  No.825978

winnie the pooh

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118aa4  No.825993

>>824213

>there is no salvation outside The Church

Well, I guess those Islanders in the middle of the Indian Ocean are screwed then. So much for god not wanting “anyone” to perish.

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dda987  No.826000

>>825993

Trite criticism applicable to any conception of Christianity, there will always be non-Christians.

That God wills all men should be saved (through their own acceptance of Christ's redemptive power) doesn't mean that all will.

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f23766  No.826140

Roman Catholics change what they officially believe so often you can't keep track of it.

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d487da  No.826143

>>824190

I don't see the problem. It explicitly states that there is only one way to salvation.

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d487da  No.826144

File: d90df1bc7d37d58⋯.png (14.63 KB, 644x800, 161:200, soy3.png)

>>825993

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not the Island cannibals! Not the spear chuckerinos!

They have a chance if they follow the natural law.

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aeb026  No.826151

>>826140

>Roman Catholics change what they officially believe

No they don't.

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196963  No.826161

>>826144

They do follow natural law by killing everyone who tries to invade them - especially retarded Baptist missionaries.

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d487da  No.826164

>>826161

>Fedoras think chimping out and acting like a savage faggot is following the natural law

No wonder atheists can't manage a successful society.

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615c2c  No.826251

>>825977

This is what bothers me. This explicitly states that even MARTYRs are not saved unless they are in communion with the Catholic Church, it even mentions sacraments and the ecclesiastical body, not just "following god or natural law", but every source I go to acts like there is no contradiction between this papal statement and the modern understanding. It's enough to make me want to leave.

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db28fb  No.828424

File: f050ab39bf362b5⋯.jpg (1.28 MB, 1898x1498, 949:749, 1578112819672.jpg)

>>824190

They are NOT Israelites. Never were and never will be. Everyone has been deceived who Israel really is and was. They're idumeans, or Edomites like king Herod, frauds. This is a historical fact. Confirmed by Strabo and Josephus

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aeb026  No.828429

File: 72c2ecb5f47eb62⋯.jpg (96.82 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, our lady of fatima.jpg)

File: 01db68321cda0ca⋯.jpg (52 KB, 400x240, 5:3, John Paul II mass with top….jpg)

File: f6e784d2ad94763⋯.jpg (60.32 KB, 325x478, 325:478, John Paul II with naked pa….jpg)

File: 0a412ef3d58af65⋯.jpg (484.94 KB, 640x696, 80:87, pope francis and his pacha….jpg)

>>824190

>This novus ordo document, contradicts not only all prior church teaching, it contradicts itself! I question the Novus Ordo faith!

Okay. I mean, if Our Lady of Fatima and Akita prediction of the Great Apostasy and if Pope's John-Paul II and Francis dragging pagans into the Vatican wasn't enough…

Maybe just disregard everything the Vatican says after 1962. What was good in 1962 is good today, no question.

Have a blessed Sunday.

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28fd5e  No.828506

>>826144

No, they don’t

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a0eb9a  No.828532

Here's the link, since no one provided it.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20151210_ebraismo-nostra-aetate_en.html

It without question denies the gospel. It declares salvation to Jews without Christ and it's an official document of the Vatican.

I'm reading a lot of cope and misdirection itt. Any honest Catholic needs to agree and address the problem honestly, just like in the issue of the sexual scandals.

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aeb026  No.828545

>>828532

It's wrong, clearly. Vatican 2 was wrong. When the Lord told the Apostles that he was there when three or more of them were gathered, he clearly did not intend to include Jews and heretics as Apostles, which Vatican 2 did.

This document conflicts with over 1000 years of Church teaching. It is in error.

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827327  No.828555

>>828545

how long has this error been around? Is this a new thing?

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827327  No.828556

>>828555

and by that I mean was there documents that precedes this online document made in 2015 or is this the only occurrence of this particular error.

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