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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 38677c43dd03284⋯.jpeg (35.19 KB, 479x640, 479:640, D24A7AEE-557E-4E2E-AEB3-D….jpeg)

c38bd7  No.823136

Was Jesus a religious Jew at the time of his crucifixion, and just because Christianity wasn’t attributed an official label or name during his earthly ministry, can we still say he was a Christian?

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f96cbe  No.823140

>>823136

He was born human among Jews. He was raised Jewish. He learned Torah and followed it. If this bothers you, then too bad.

He died, however, for everyone.

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c5a356  No.823155

What is called Judaism today bears very little resemblance to what Jesus practiced. Jews today follow the big book of loopholes, the Talmud, and Rabbinical "law". They don't uphold the old covenant, just lots of excuses and workarounds.

Not that it matters. The old covenant has passed away, and we have the New one.

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8a89c9  No.823161

>>823140

He did not die for everyone but for many.

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4fbe4e  No.823162

File: fd73c0f58543c80⋯.jpg (8.57 KB, 100x250, 2:5, 1381450452159s.jpg)

>>823161

[1 Timothy 2]

{2:1} I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:

{2:2} For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

{2:3} For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,

{2:4} Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

{2:5} For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

{2:6} Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

REPENT HERETIC

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8e0639  No.823192

>>823136

No, He died a Roman Catholic

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978c14  No.823193

>>823165

What are you even referring to? No one has been censored in this thread

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f0122a  No.823275

Was he a religious Jew? Yes. He fulfilled the Law. Can we say he was a Christian? No. He was Christ, not a follower of Christ.

See eg John 1:11

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f0122a  No.823277

>>823162

dude pro multis is the latin translation of Mt 26:28 and Mk 14:24

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5ddde8  No.823287

>>823277

And yet your interpretation is wrong and calvinistic.

Here is from the Catholic catechism:

>605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm

Plus the passages from 1st Timothy I literally copied from the DR.

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b43b28  No.823297

>>823287

First of all: the catechism is not infallible.

Secondly, you do realize the entire concept of the "Elect" is Catholic? I'd recommend the book on predestination by Rev. Garrigou-Lagrange. Read Saint Augustine on the subject as well.

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5ddde8  No.823304

>>823297

That has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus Christ came to die for everyone. It says right there in 1st Timothy. So either St Paul and the magisterium got it wrong or you got it wrong. Who would I rather believe?

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c5a356  No.823313

He potentially died for everyone, but since not all will accept His gift His death was only for many.

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5ddde8  No.823323

>>823313

Christ died for everyone and it is our duty to remind people of that fact. Wether they accept it or doesn't change that fact that Christ died for everyone.

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b61071  No.823324

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d0855b  No.823354

>>823275

Lmao this is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

What were then Abraham and Noahna and the many people who lived before the Law, which is a Law for a people of hardened heart?

I will tell you, they were Christians because they spoke of Christ. Christian is whoever follows the precepts of Christ and acknowledges the teachings of Christ. So Christ was, in any sense in which we compare, a christian.

Jews are those that reject Christ.

>>823277

Lmao that only means that not everyone will follow him. How retarded do you have to be in theology and blind in the understanding of Christ that you say such nonsense?

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426904  No.823390

>>823354

>. How retarded do you have to be in

insulting others is a SIN

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93af8b  No.823425

>>823287

All men in potency, not in act, is my understanding of the thomist understanding

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f0122a  No.823475

>>823354

Mt 5:17 and Acts 11:26

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1d7183  No.823477

>>823390

Where does it say that? Just because someone calls you an insult doesnt mean they dont love you, retard

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5ae845  No.827315

i recommend you watch this series: https://www.b----ute.com/video/LDbRjMXb1nlv/

It goes in great depth to answer this issue.

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5ae845  No.827317

>>827315

Didn't realize it blocks links, it's in b—-ute

b—-ute LDbRjMXb1nlv

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5ae845  No.827318

>>827317

bit chute

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f87cac  No.827320

>>823192

You're effectively saying that Christ is defined by the church, when it's the other way around. Please don't.

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ec62ca  No.827324

Our Lord Jesus Christ came for the sinners. Thus, it makes sense to come for the Jews and their broken covenant.

Yes, Jesus was Circumcised as a Jew!

Not sure why so many people think Jewishness is even important. He's God, you know… kind the most remarkable thing about him and it makes any Jewishness kinda trivial.

I promise you, Jesus did not do all the evil that got Jews thrown out of not just Judea, but 109 other countries as well.

Can these trolls please stop this nonsense?

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143bf0  No.827327

>>823323

>>823313

>>823304

>>823162

>{2:1} I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:

>{2:2} For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.

We are to pray for the leaders of our countries so that we can have peace. All men = men of all walks of life, both poor and rich, commoner and king.

>{2:4} Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

All men still means the same thing here. Men of all walks of life.

>{2:6} Who gave himself a redemption for all

"all" = "all men" = men of all walks of life, even kings and governors and such… Very unpopular people. Let Paul define the meaning of his own words please.

Not that the Greek is necessary to understand the plain meaning of the text, but the Greek is even more specific…

<ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀνθρώπων

<ὑπὲρ βασιλέων

<καὶ πάντων τῶν ἐν ὑπεροχῇ ὄντων

ἀνθρώπων = men

βασιλέων = kings

τῶν ἐν ὑπεροχῇ ὄντων = those in authority

τῶν = those

τῶν is a definite article, those. ἐν ὑπεροχῇ ὄντων provides more detail about who "those" are.

So the keys here are ἀνθρώπων, βασιλέων, and τῶν. See that ων ending on all three of these nouns? That's a plural, masculine, genitive ending. These are all the same thing being referred to. All men = kings and those in authority, according to the grammar of the text.

Additionally, ὑπὲρ… The writer uses ὑπὲρ (for/on behalf of) again to further emphasize which men he's talking about.

tl;dr it's not a soteriological passage, Paul is just writing an admonishment.

And the next verse you think of to try to prove General Atonement, please go ahead and look up what the Calvinist counter-argument is before posting it. Here's a big list for you to browse at your leisure. https://www.gospeloutreach.net/tulip_defense.html If you'd like to see an affirmative presentation of Particular Redemption, that can be arranged.

>>823287

>"There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."

According to Rome. I find it absurd to think that Jesus suffered and died with the intent of redeeming a person whom He knew would never have faith in Him. That would make his sacrifice ineffectual on behalf of the majority of its intended beneficiaries, and I consider that blasphemy. But that's why we have different churches. You consider us heretics, we consider you heretics. That's unlikely to change anytime soon.

>>823136

>Was Jesus a religious Jew at the time of his crucifixion

Yes, and he rejected the Rabbinical tradition. That's why the Talmud has Him summoned back by a necromancer, where He proceeds to state that He's receiving punishment in hell by using a huge pot of boiling turds as a jacuzzi. The Rabbis really didn't like Him.

>can we still say he was a Christian?

He can't be under the new covenant when He is the new covenant. Is He supposed to be a spiritual klein bottle or something?

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143bf0  No.827328

Whoops… Somebody bumped this and I didn't check the date. Oh well.

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f87cac  No.827331

>>823136

In Greek, the meaning of "Christianos" is effectively "slave of Christ". "Ianos" was attached to, say, the household servants under a great family name.

You don't say "Christ" is a "slave of Christ" or that the Master is just one of the "help". So no, he wasn't a "Christian".

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8cb80e  No.827349

File: c3c62150d008745⋯.jpg (72.13 KB, 769x1024, 769:1024, 39908554222_7136cf0a92_b.jpg)

>>823136

No doubt he is jew

He was call rabbi in bible. he is reformer judaism religion . like Buddha is reformer for Hindu religion . and all religion reformers

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b13e99  No.827377

>>823136

>Was Jesus a religious Jew

What? No, Christ was never a jew. The jews were the ones he kept going around telling to stop being heretics. And then they killed him, as punishment for healing a man on the sabbath.

>>823140

>He was born human among Jews. He was raised Jewish.

No and no. He was born among Israelites, and was raised in the Hebrew faith. Jews were called pharisees and sadducees.

>He learned Torah and followed it.

Which shows he was not a jew. Jews followed "the tradition of the elders", which is the satanic filth from Babylon, and which was later written down as the talmud. This is far too important of a matter to not understand it. Your entire understanding of the new testament will be incorrect if you do not know this. Read the bible, and pay attention to this distinction, it is made clear over and over again.

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f72f57  No.827389

>Was Jesus a religious Jew at the time of his crucifixion?

Yes.

>and just because Christianity wasn’t attributed an official label or name during his earthly ministry, can we still say he was a Christian?

This is a silly question; because Jesus was not his own follower, the simple answer is no, as >>823275 said seven months ago.

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ec62ca  No.827477

If you chose hell because you hate jews and worry that The Word of God came for the sinners (Jews) and was a "Jew",….

Well, you missed his message entirely.

Enjoy your days, because your soul is immortal.

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