/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>812791

Don't listen to establishment politically religious or religious politicians.

>>812795

I appreciate the info, I'll read it all and respond when I have more time. Please don't sage, I am being genuine. I'm also curious as to what /christian/s rebutal is to Christianity being a form of Jewish proto-communism that justifies race mixing and rejects hierarchy and ownership of property. I'm not arguing these things nor have I formed an opinion on the subject yet. I just want to hear both sides. Screencaps and infographs are welcome, you don't have to waste time typing for me if you have the information on hand.

>>812796

I don't whatsoever. I'm not up to speed on current events and politics at all nor do I want to be anymore. I don't even watch TV. I'm trying to focus on my life, my loved ones, and the environment around me that I can affect.

>>812795

After skimming this, it looks like proof of what I already beleived; that Christ and his resurrection were in fact real. That's not what I am questioning though. Did you even read my post?

>>812799

>Jewish

The modern religion called "Judaism" is defined by the conscious rejection of Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus would have called himself a word that's usually translated as "Jew" today, but He had almost nothing in common with the modern peoples who call themselves "Jews."

>proto-communism

A lot of people see that Christianity is incompatible with capitalism and conclude that it must be communist. This is nonsense. Christianity pre-dates both capitalism and communism by centuries and centuries and centuries, and it's incompatible with both of them. For a good look at what genuinely Christian economic systems look like, look into Medieval and Renaissance Europe.

>justifies race mixing

No. All the commandments regarding racemixing that can be found in the Bible explicitly recommend not doing it. At worst, you could argue that Christianity doesn't actively oppose racemixing. But it certainly doesn't encourage it either.

>rejects hierarchy

Definitely not. If that were the case, feudalism would never have taken off in Christian Europe. Christianity is strongly pro-hierarchy. We call Christ our King because the title of king is assumed to be something worthy of respect. And of course there are many Churches with very clearly laid-out hierarchies which their followers are expected to respect. From priest to bishop to pope, for example.

>and ownership of property

Not necessarily. There are some Christians who are called to give away all their property and to follow Jesus in a special way, but not everyone receives this calling. We are, however, expected to "despise" our property. This doesn't mean to hate inanimate objects; it just means that if we are ever called on to give away our property for the service of God, we should be able to do so gladly and without hesitation. Abraham, for example, was a righteous man with great sums of property, but he was righteous because he wouldn't withhold any part of it from God, not even his own son.

>>812799

> /christian/s rebutal is to Christianity being a form of Jewish proto-communism that justifies race mixing and rejects hierarchy and ownership of property.

>Proto-communism

first and foremost, i must say that Christ didn't preach about any earthly kingdom or govenrment, even as an ardent monarchist myself! Christ told us about the kingdom of Heaven and how to reach it. Any one saying otherwise doesn't know what he's talking about. That being said…

>justifies race mixing and rejects hierarchy and ownership of property.

First on race mixing: in my opinion does not prohibit nor condones it- you're free to make your choice with God given reason.

Second, hierarchy and ownership: The hierarchy part is laughable since that's not what we find in the gospel at all, since Christ himself says to Pilate that his power is God-given, Christ is called King of kings and Lord of lords. And that's not what we find in history at all- Europe had strong christian and hierarchial roots in the middle ages.

Property: We can say there's nothing wrong with having goods but we have to put the spiritual and eternal above our earthly things.

>>812803

Thanks, I appreciate this. My main question still stands though: how can Christians be certain that their version of Christianity is accurate and all others are tainted? For instance, how can so many take the KJV seriously and literally given its history? We know for a fact it was adulterated by King James, so how can a Christian justify accepting the word of King James as if it were the word of God? This is just one example. What am I missing?

>And how could it be communist?

It's not my argument, just one I have heard and would like to gear both sides. I'll pull up some of the screencaps and such when I get home. I have folders with arguments for and against Christianity, but I don't know enough about Christianity to draw any firm conclusions from them myself. I do find it suspicious that jews generally hate Christians though. That alone is enough to add to my suspicion that Christianity is indeed the truth.

>>812806

>>812804

>>812806

Thank you everyone, this is all very reassuring. I'll have to show you some of the agruments I've seen once I get home so you guys can help me understand why they are bullshit.

However, my main question still goes without do much as an acknowledgement. How do you know which Bible, and which denomination is true? How can you be sure?

>>812804

>No. All the commandments regarding racemixing that can be found in the Bible explicitly recommend not doing it. At worst, you could argue that Christianity doesn't actively oppose

Deuteronomy 7:

1When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— 2and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. a Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 3Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you and will quickly destroy you

>>812811

>Catholics, for example, claim an unbroken line of popes, bishops, and traditions from the time of the Apostles.

How can this carry any authority though? Especially when the pope today directly contradicts so many things previously established by the catholic church and other denominations? Regardless, all these people are simply men. How in the hell does this not make catholicism simply idolatry by definition? If the Bible is the word of God, who is the pope to override it? Why do poeple act like the word of pope is the word of God? If that's not idolatry, then how and why is it not exactly?

On this note, isn't the Bible mostly various quotes and stories from different men? How much of it is actually the word of Christ himself, and how can one call themselves a Christian while following words that primarily come from people other than Christ? Why should treat anything John or anyone else said as infallible? I asked these kind of questions as a young child and it only made adults angry which made me reject and rebel for years. I want answers now though. I suspect the Christians I grew up with simply were not very intelligent and didn't really understand their own faith. I'm hoping some of you are more intelligent and understand it better than they did.

>What do you mean by adulterated?

My understanding was that he made some modifications to justify his own rule, at the very least. I forget the details, but I was hoing someone more familiar with the topic could chime in.

>>812814

But that is simply the word of some man named Deuteronomy. What does Christ himself say? How much of Christianity is actually the word of Christ, and not people claiming to be his followers and representatives?

>>812817

Deuteronomy is Scripture. The Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible, also known as the Books of Moses) are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. This is pre-Messianic. The Old Covenant that the Israelites followed was fulfilled and perfected by Jesus. The ministry of Jesus is contained in the four Gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. If you were to read the Bible, I'd recommend reading Genesis + the Gospels first, you'll have some idea of the general narrative of the Bible.

>>812817

All Apostolic Churches have 99% the same doctrine. The Apostles were and are representatives of Christ because He Himself gave them this authority. And Apostles passed this authority to their disciples and successors via the imposition of hands (the sacrament of holy orders ie priesthood)

As st. Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 4

>[14] Neglect not the grace that is in thee, which was given thee by prophesy, with imposition of the hands of the priesthood.

And those successors have kept the tradition alive, as charged by st. Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2

>[14] Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle

And 2 Timothy 2

>[1] Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace which is in Christ Jesus: [2] And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also

You want to interpret the Bible for yourself? You want to claim you know better? You want to trust pastor Leroy? You can do that I guess.

>>812829

>>812817

Oh and of course 1 Corinthians 11

>[1] Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. [2] Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

>>812829

>>812831

Don't forget 2 Peter 1:20.

>>812795

>lurkmoar

This. Every week we get a "which denom should I join" thread, which always devolve into /v/-tier interdenominational flame wars. I advise OP to lurk for at least some two weeks and then come with better questions.

Its usually they're born into it.

>>812874

>>18:20. Thou shalt not lie with thy neighbour’s wife: nor be defiled with mingling of seed.

I am a hapa, which means basically any idea of having children for me would mean "mingling of seed". What the Piglet do I do?

Pick the one that makes the most sense to you and don't forget to PRAY for guidance. God will never forsake a soul genuinely looking for the truth.

>>812803

That quote is fake, iirc

John 1: 1- 14 The Word is God and not in paper You will find the truth in him alone..What bible did the Apostles read?

>>812791

Just rule out the ones that have logical and theological flaws and you'll have the truth

>The Bible is the word of God

>The Church that compiled the Bible must of been endorsed by God else the Bible they made is wrong

>Therefore the Church at that time the Bible was compiled must be The True Church™

>Therefore Protestantism is false because the Church at the time that was endorsed by God promoted the Eucharist, Baptism of Children and Veneration of saints.

Then Jesus breathing on the Apostles for them to receive the Holy Spirit and other Biblical evidence/foreshadowing of the Filioque and the papal office (Among other things) rules out Orthodoxy, leaving you with Catholicism.

>>812977

>>Therefore the Church at that time the Bible was compiled must be The True Church™

You're right, but you're forgetting you splintered off Orthodoxy

>foreshadowing of the Filioque

Oh, Suddenly the pope had the power to create grace, makes perfect sense. If the pope can create grace, then salvation can come from following the pope, and if salvation can come from following the pope, why would he have a personal reason to remain in the truth? And why wouldn't power seeking people try to acquire that seat? Oh look they did, and the Reformation was the result.

Savonarola did nothing wrong.

>>812791

>How do Christians choose one version of Christianity over another? How can all of you be so certain that your Bible is 100% accurate and that other Bible is not? How can you be sure that you are actually putting your faith in God himself, and not simply the word of other men? I am willing and able to accept the general worldview of Christianity as true, what I can't understand is how can one know which books are the true word of God and Christ and which are tainted? If they are all written by men, how can you put your faith in them and call it faith in God?

Pray for guidance. Once you have the Holy Spirit, all your questions answer themselves

>>814167

This I thought was interesting

>>825726

It's part of a larger youtube playlist here,

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD1450DFDA859F694

Dante in Translation with Giuseppe Mazzotta

>>825740

Well they were in the direct presence of Christ with whom they needed reconciliation and who was supernaturally perfectly aware of their repentance. If you think of it that way then confession and reconciliation makes even more sense, only during the sacrament in which the Priest acts in persona Christi is there a comparable presence of Christ to repent to. Also the original Eucharist was only given to his apostles, how is that "freely" in the way you imply?

Hey, I'm the OP who made this before 8ch got shut down. I've learned a lot in the last 5 months. I've been carefully studying the new testament using software and comparing versions. KJV is ironically enough the most accurate, but also was very corrupted intentionally in a very subtle and skillful way. Still, using your brain and strong's concordance helps clear it up. These resources have been extremely eye opening for me. Figured I'd share for anyone with similar questions:

Old testament is not about jews, and the jews were never God's chosen people:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/wa1VDt4L1UEL/

Huge list of other common misunderstandings spread by jews:

https://www.ageoflaodicea.com/hey-christian/

Key words mistranslated be jews in an effort to subvert the Christian faith:

https://archive.is/WAOcM

Interesting interpretation of the Christian worldview as an ethno-nationalist faith with Isrealites as the white/caucasoid races here:

https://christogenea.com/

Not certain they are 100% correct, but their claims are extremely thoroughly researched and so far I have been unable to disprove any of them.

Also, I'm going to dump some pasta I found with some general advice on Bible study and accuracy of different translations after this post. I'm not necessarily trying to endorse any of this, just sharing some things I have found.

>>825952

Don't listen to the KJV crowd. They ate the Jew Soup.

John 3:36

The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not OBEYING the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

In Greek

http://biblehub.com/text/john/3-36.htm

“ὁ πιστεύων εἰς τὸν Υἱὸν ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον· ὁ δὲ ἀπειθῶν τῷ Υἱῷ οὐk ὄψεται ζωήν, ἀλλ’ ἡ ὀργὴ τοῦ Θεοῦ μένει ἐπ’ αὐτόν.”

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life, and he who disobeys the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him.”

and now the KJV

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So they changed "not obeying" into" "Believieth not"

That's one of literally 1000s of verses changed in the KJV.

1/5

Now having said that get yourself a good bible. Don't listen to the Prods. If a book is mentioned in the Bible by the Apostles, it scriptural.

So get a Bible with ALL the books. The will say they are not Canonical but that's a Jew trick.

ALL Canon is scriptural and defines doctrine. All Scripture supports Canon and doctrine. Trust what the Apostles chose to read.

So which Bible. In my mind there are only two that are decent +. Many have HUGE HUGE HUGE translations errors. These two have some small translation errors . The 1st here transliterated which makes it easy to read.

The second is literal and it's harder to read but every word lines up with the Strong Exhaustive concordance.

1) The Jerusalem Bible (Gotta buy it on Amazon)

2) The Scriptures 2009

https://isr-messianic.org/

Also download E-Sword at E-Sword.net and download the following Bibles

1) KJV

2) KJV+ (So you can see with your own eyes all the concordance translations hyperlinked in a box.)(You will see rather quickly which Bibles mistranslate)

3) The New Jerusalem Bible (There is no version of the Jerusalem Bible)

4) TS2009 (Use this for the New testement) (If it is too hard, fall back on the New Jeruslaem Bible)

5) Lexham Bible (This is what you want to use 100% for the Old testement) It is the Septuigent.

You will easily see which Bible stays closest to the Greek and Hebrew. You won't need someone elses opinion.

So also make sure you read 2 Maccabees first. Then use Wikipedia and look up the main characters and understand who they are.

You have John Hyracanus and Antipater the Idumaean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean

and his son King Herod who is all over the New Testament.

It's important that you know who these men are because 2 are Edomites pretending to be Israelite and 1 is the King of the House of Judah.

It's important because it will show you who is an Edomite today and who is not.

2/5

Then go here and make an account http://www.biblesupport.com

Download these Books for E-Sword because thy will help you understand Genisis which is the Cliff notes for a much larger volume of work.

These books are paraphrased by Apostles in the New Testemnet. If they used them , it's good enough for me.

The Book of Enoch (quoted by in Jude in the NT)

http://www.biblesupport.com/e-sword-downloads/file/2117-charles-r-h-the-book-of-enoch-english-translationtopxexe/

It is canon in the Ethiopian Church

Jude 1:14 It was with them in mind that Enoch, the seventh patriarch from Adam, made his prophecy when he said, 'I tell you, the Lord will come with his holy ones in their tens of thousands

The Book of Jasher (Quoted in the OT)

http://www.biblesupport.com/e-sword-downloads/file/2412-the-book-of-jashertopxexe/

Joshua10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2Samuel1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

The Book of Jubilees

http://www.biblesupport.com/e-sword-downloads/file/10654-the-book-of-jubilees/

The Book of Jubilees, sometimes called the “Lesser Genesis,” was probably written in the 2nd century BC and records an account of the biblical history of the world from the creation to Moses.

It is canon in the Ethiopian Church

Then read this and throw out whatever you like. It makes VERY VERY good points about the translation of certain words (10 or so) in the Bible which make the entire Bible a whole different story. http://www.anglo-saxonisrael.com/content/how-read-bible

3/5

>>825953

If you REALLY want to understand it all it takes a bit more than even that.

You need to read the Deuterocanonicals which is in all the Bibles I posted.

the KJV crowd calls them the Apocrypha.

Especially read Macabees 1 and 2. They will show you who the Judahites were related to. The Dorian Greeks, (Sparta)

Then buy Josephus: The History of the Jews

https://www. amazon. com/Josephus-History-Condensed-Simple-English/dp/1944878327/

and

Josephus: The Jewish Wars

https://www .amazon. com/Jewish-War-Revised-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140444203/

This will explain what happpend in Judea between 150BC where Maccabees ends and when Jesus was born.

It will completely illuminate you as to who EXACTLY the Jews are. Josephus was a Judahite from the tribe of Judah.

Not a Jew.

4/5

Then if you can still breath. Buy the Jerusalem Targum and your mind will be blown wide open.

https://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Targum_Pseudo-Jonathan

https://www. amazon .com/Targum-Pseudo-Jonathan-Targums-Book-3-ebook/dp/B01BB7WP9Y/

Most people do not know this but the Talmud started off as the Traditions of the Elders which is mentioned in the Bible and it came from Judahites (Isrealites from the Tribe of Judah) and not Edomites (Jews).

This is the only interpretation we have from them of the first 5 books of the Bible. Each targam following this was Jewish (Edomite) and not Judahite (Israel)

5/5

>>825954

So here is one example of 100s of Why the Septuagint is the goto version of the Old Testament.

Luke 4, KJV:

>And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised

Isaiah 61, KJV:

>The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound

Isaiah 61, Septuagint:

>The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to preach glad tidings to the poor, to heal the broken in heart, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind;

So who is wrong here? Was it Jesus who quoted a line that isn't in the Masoretic Text? Why would Jesus quote the Septuagint if it wasn't correct? Or why is the verse that Jesus quotes incorrectly preserved in the MT and conflicts with what he said? Interesting conundrum for our KJV onlyist friend.

>The Authors of the KJV tell us to use the Septuagint as well. I'll post that info

Here is a portion of the translators notes from the 1611 KJV of the Bible telling us that the Septuagint is biblical and "the word of God". The 7-10 books that modern KJV bibles do not include in their bibles.

Translators’ Preface to the 1611 KJV: “But, when the fulness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of the Jew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek Prince (Greek for descent and language) even of Ptolemy Philadelph King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek. This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters [the Septuagent], commonly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gentiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal… The translation of the Seventy dissenteth from the Original in many places, neither doth it come near it, for perspicuity, gravity, majesty; yet which of the Apostles did condemn it? Condemn it? Nay, they used it, (as it is apparent, and as Saint Jerome and most learned men do confess) which they would not have done, nor by their example of using it, so grace and commend it to the Church, if it had been unworthy of the appellation and name of the word of God.”

https://library.osu.edu/innovation-projects/omeka/exhibits/show/the-king-james-bible/sections/item/72

So they are saying that it is the word of God and the scripture the Apostles used.

The KJV was forced on the People. 95% of the people were using the Geneva Bible.

People like William Shakespeare Oliver Cromwell and the pilgrams!

Lancelot Andrewes, chairman of the KJV translators, used the Geneva Bible for his sermons .

It succeeded ONLY because other versions were banned. The Geneva Bible continued to sell – and in huge numbers. Indeed, it proved so popular that in 1616 the King was forced to ban the printing of the Geneva Bible by any English press. Although people continued to import copies, eventually the ban worked and the KJ-AV became the default English translation, without any serious competition, its sonorous, beautiful, fantastic prose wove itself into our culture.

http://nickpage.co.uk/books/gods-dangerous-book/ten-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-king-james-bible/

Luke 2:14

Luke 2:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2%3A14&version=KJV

Greek

"Glory in the highest to God and on earth peace among men WITH WHOM HE IS PLEASED"

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/2-14.htm

That is, there will be peace on earth among men who have God's good will in their hearts. Not ALL men. Not universalism.

Luke 2:14

(KJV) Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

(LEB) "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among people with whom he is pleased!"

(NJB) Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth peace for those he favours.

(RSV) "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!"

(TS2009) “Esteem to Elohim in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased!”

See KJV makes it ALL men. If they will change what the angels said at Jesus's birth, they will change anything.

>>825955

Last one here. Just random pasta I saved because it looked interesting:

Eustace Mullins covers the Jew-Caananite-Phoencian-Venetian-Carthage-Edomite connection pretty well, you should take a look at his work.

https://archive.org/details/EustaceMullinsSigmundFreudAntichristDevil1997

https://archive.org/stream/EustaceMullins/43458178-Eustace-Mullins-the-Curse-of-Canaan_djvu.txt

https://archive.org/details/Ebooks-Blackbird9/page/n1

https://archive.org/search.php?query=eustace+mullins&page=3

https://archive.org/details/TheCurseOfCanaan-ADemonologyOfHistory-1987-EustaceMullins

https://archive.org/details/WhoAreTheKenitesJewsAndJudaismJesusAndTheTalmudists-Bertrand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=648&v=6PVNCwdXcUo&feature=emb_title [Open]

These are really good on Venice:

https://archive.org/stream/ElizabethIOfEngland/Tarpley-Webster-Griffin-The-Venetian-Conspiracy-from-Campaigner-magazine-1981-32_djvu.txt

https://archive.org/details/ElizabethIOfEngland