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[ Literature ] [ E-books ] [ Politics ] [ Science ] [ Religion ]

File: 4e4f62d9b969653⋯.jpg (325.56 KB,900x900,1:1,karma.jpg)

7a4f50 No.4966 [Open thread]

Okay /philosophy/ please bare with me.

How does a King or anyone of the such hold the "Form of Good" within him, according to Plato?

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7a4f50 No.4967

plato was a pidor

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7a4f50 No.4968

>>4967

Being that I'm Bosnian, I'll throw in a "Plato was a peder".

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7b038f No.5306

Plato was wrong. We can work out what he meant, but there's no point.

Plato's forms are a primitive understanding of how definitions work. Now we know how definitions work, and Plato's forms are little more than a historical curiosity.

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File: 1459360238749.png (69.44 KB,300x100,3:1,1459287422385-boards.png)

ffe648 No.3837 [Open thread]

>>>/logic/ and it's child boards

>>>/logicpol/

(/logic/ isn't claimed yet so sorry about the shit posting)

What do you think of the idea?

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ffe648 No.4800

>>4483

Now I can accurately guess that the people here don't

He's just a caricature of someone who's just learned about logical fallacies and doesn't entirely understand them.

Which brings us to the last comic:

>>4511

You're right that things still have a truth behind them but what the fuck, everyone except the most brainwashed post modernist knows that.

If you can't argue your point without shooting off a fallacy what is the fucking point of arguing with you, dumbass? The point of this description is to refute people that think that, because a earlier argument used a fallacy, further arguments towards the same point are invalid because the user is fallacious.

Guess what?

This shit has nothing to do with it.

Nobody wants to argue with logical fallacies because there's nothing to argue.

Go fling your

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ffe648 No.4948

>>4527

I'll teach logic for free if anyone wants to learn.

(ProTip: nobody's willing to put in the effort.)

(Throw the horns for Socrates.)

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ffe648 No.4959

>>4527

I picked up logic from statistics, baysneian truth statements in applied calculus or algebra, and fallacies from a philosophy class valued critical thinking. I took a few programing classes but I didn't learn anything except writing procedural code within some rules, maybe I didn't study it long enough. I don't think you need a class soley for logic, all you need is enough classes that delve into it and rely on it.

>Sophistry

I learned how to argue and do research from liberal arts classes. Science coursework is strangely hung-up on rote memorization of formulas and write-ups; they don't usually make students research a topic, memorize arguments for a prompt, and then verbally debate or aggressively question each other like lawyers. Take for example the pre-med majors who memorize a ton of facts, names, reactions, and diagnoses, but remain cultural bound and never need to question things like their own biases to get a degree, which is why they're the most likely of the "STEM matter race" to keep their religion.

>>4948

Teach us your secret.

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ffe648 No.4976

>>4509

Ad hominem.

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5f474c No.5308

>>3863

>The problem with focusing on fallacies is that a lot of people tend to misidentify them.

The major problem being misidentifying them on purpose or accidentally on purpose. Even the most objective arbiter will end up finding more fallacies in arguments they disagree with.

This is why the Catholics have a Pope. Someone has to decide, meaning someone has to have final authority. However, having only one Pope is degenerate in several ways. To do the fallacy-banning thing properly on 8chan would require a board-of-boards. Each board would have their own Fallacy Pope, but there would be a meta-board with the combined thread feed of all the boards. Alternatively, OPs would all have banning privileges within their own threads, though they would need to identify their ruleset, which would be equivalent to namefagging.

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File: 1464181108193.jpeg (81.31 KB,800x517,800:517,image.jpeg)

3c5aa3 No.4106 [Open thread]

List the heroes. Aside from Socrates there was a female neoplatonic philosopher/astronomer who was murdered by the Christian mob centuries later:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

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3c5aa3 No.4500

>>4362

But how that murdered for philosophy if Hypatia as murdered for politics? It seems like neither of them are a martyr by your standards.

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3c5aa3 No.4501

>>4500

Socrates did not advocate anything political. His inquiries, however, made fools of the citizens of athens and the professional politicians who claimed to know things yet were left baffled and unable to give any positive answer to Socrates' questions.

This spirit of complete free inquiry was catching on with the noble youth who, thanks to Socrates, were beginning to see that the adults were ignorant and really did not know any more than the youth themselves. This destruction of faith and its consequences is why Socrates was put to death, and it is why he refused to accept any wrongdoing or punishment. He knew he had done nothing wrong and had revealed the ignorant for what they were: ignorant.

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3c5aa3 No.4951

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3c5aa3 No.4962

-) Anicius Manlius Severinus Boëthius

-) Giordano Bruno

-) in a way also Blaise Pascal (his religous beliefs killed him)

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7e5f08 No.5310

If you admire martyrs so much, kill yourself.

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

677bd0 No.4928 [Open thread]

Everything in the evolution leads up to this moment, everything since the big bang theory.

Imagine something for 1 billion years ago happen differently just 1 sec in the pass would have changed everything! Mindblow

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677bd0 No.4929

regard b6s3d.

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677bd0 No.4930

File: 9c9890496c4669f⋯.png (595.96 KB,669x473,669:473,jfn7s8W.png)

>>4928

If things had happened slightly differently in then Sean Murray wouldn't have been born. That's truly amazing!

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677bd0 No.4943

>>4928

>evolution

>the big bang

>1 billion years ago

nice memes

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c1cdd4 No.5311

If you had waved your arms the other way two years ago the weather today would have been 'completely different' than it is. Just like the weather is always completely different from one day to the next - but still weather.

Most random arrangements look pretty much the same to us, because they're functionally pretty much the same to us.

>>4943

Evolution is logically necessary. Does God hate logic?

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File: 0402bc2156d8c82⋯.png (1.76 MB,960x600,8:5,1418090233380.png)

ed337b No.4911 [Open thread]

I believe many philosophers and politicians might have written books on those subjects. What would be good starting points on this subject?

If being rational doesn't work on the masses, maybe appeals to emotion will.

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ed337b No.4912

M8, there are literally books that are almost a THOUSAND YEARS OLD teaching you the art of rhetoric. Rhetoric isn't about being logical in the standard sense in the way that proper arguments work, but is about a practical logic about how dumb human beings actually think and are convinced. Appeals to emotion with the veneer of reason, that's what it is. This is not enough, however, you have to not be a sperg or autist yourself in order to have the unteachable aspect of it: a finely tuned and self-aware charm and charisma.

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ed337b No.4942

Well, any help on this one?

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ed337b No.4981

idk much about this but I do own nicomachean ethics give it a try

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ed337b No.5040

these days, the art of sophistry and rhetoric is best learned by reading about psychology and the neuroscience behind the formation of opinions. Most of the good stuff is going to be technical and dry, but it's going to serve you better than populistic works on the matter.

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e74735 No.5313

I found my Asperger's downright helpful, though that's because mind-manipulation appears to be one of my areas of hyperfocus.

Yes, if you're willing to lie, there's hardly anything you can't convince a majority to believe. Unfortunately, what civilization needs now is an appreciation for truth, which no amount of rhetoric can impart.

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File: 31169a0d8e1a813⋯.jpg (77.79 KB,580x474,290:237,IMG_6058.JPG)

9e3434 No.4938 [Open thread]

>Try to get into philosophy

>Realize you are are not who you think you are, but are actually a little girl in a best-selling novel

>Level up your philosophical powers and escape into the real world

Mfw, why didn't my philosophy profs inform me that the secret to philosophy is it's a process of getting out of a fucking book and meeting a "God" who has been watching you, and waiting for you to come so he can caress your flat titties?

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9e3434 No.4939

take pills

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9e3434 No.4940

>>4939

Take the red pill.

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File: 781bf3dd306efe8⋯.jpg (20.31 KB,250x323,250:323,81eUW9G6mML._UX250_.jpg)

210398 No.4889 [Open thread]

Hmu with the best book(s) on stoicism

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210398 No.4890

SAGE

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File: cd28710e58d81ab⋯.jpg (56.38 KB,600x480,5:4,Demotivational.Poster.600.….jpg)

fae8ae No.4866 [Open thread]

dear phil, I am trying to write a book that you may find interesting, it's a take on an old premise that has never been seen before.

It's a series of stories about time travel, which all take place in the same setting, but with different characters perspectives, kind of like sin city.

but here is where it becomes unique, it deviaters in every way from how the subject is usually treated:

1: time travel is for everybody (who can afford it):

in most time travel stories, use of the technology is either heavily regulated, or only available to a select few, but here, traveling to, and thereby changing, the past is a technology widely available on the free market.

2. the setting with time travel does not have events which are unalterable, yet it does:

in most stories, you either cannot kill Hitler, or you can, but doing so deletes all future events along your timeline, and overwrites them with a new series of events that follow from the point of deviation.

But in my setting, all timelines with the same set of natural laws coexist exist as complete, predetermined, unalterable, looping entities within a single multiverse, where the last unique point in every timeline, where the universe is crushed into a singularity, is followed by first unique point in the timeline, when the singularity begins to expand again, this happens twice in every given timeline, and in between these points are the two points which all timelines share, that is, at the point of the singularity itself.

so the moment you travel back in time, you are actually entering a previous point in another timeline that is identical up the predetermined point in the timeline where you have warped in, at which point you become a part of the predetermined future of that timeline, unless one of your predetermined actions within it is to warp back in time again, in which case you disappear from it, and into a previous point in another, or into it's future, in which case you skip your existence within the timeline, until the future point at which you reappear again.

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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fae8ae No.4868

>>4867

the point that might interest you, phil, is what writers are unintentionally telling their readers when they make their setting follow the rules my work is breaking.

what do you think people take away from every depiction of time travel in fiction ever?

that the past cant be changed, that it can only be changed by a select few, and that any changes will ultimately bring ruin to the mad scientist who made them?

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fae8ae No.4878

>>4866

the design of a multiverse is essentially this:

imagine a core whose composition dictates a set of natural laws.

imagine a line in an ellipse around it, then imagine drawing another ellipse starting from one of the furthest points in the previous ellipse, but not one that traces along the first previous ellipse, then doing this again, and again, until the ellipses form a shell around the core, which causes the multiverse to resemble a perfectly symmetrical egg.

each of the ellipses is one of the timelines that is compatible with the natural laws dictated by the core, the furthest points from the core on every timeline is the point of singularity that every timeline in the multiverse shares, at the closest points of each timeline to the core of the multiverse, is point at which the universe of the timeline has reached it's maximum size, when it has ceased expanding, and began to contract.

there are two "lives" for the universe within every given timeline, each making up half of the timeline:

for example, when taking a cross-section of a multiverse to look down upon a single timeline, between two singularities, one to the core's left, and one to it's right.

one of the universe's "lives" is above the core and goes from the left singularity to the right singularity, while the other "life" is below the core, and goes from the right singularity, to the left singularity.

assuming a clockwise rotation, (it could also be counter clockwise, the rotation itself does not matter).

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fae8ae No.4880

File: 3ec84f51801de6b⋯.jpg (71.86 KB,643x820,643:820,0a1.jpg)

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fae8ae No.4888

>>4880

I'll make my question short and simple then, without presenting my own theories about how I would do time travel:

what do you think people take away from every depiction of time travel in fiction ever? what are the maker's of such sci-fi/fantasy saying when they write the subject as the usually do:

where the past cant be changed, or where it can only be changed by a select few, but always that any changes made to the past will ultimately bring ruin to the mad scientist/well-intentioned fool who made them?

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fae8ae No.5067

>>4888

We already have a thread on the differences between fatalism vs. determinism.

The setting that I am talking about is deterministic, but not fatalist, changes are not necessarily desirable or undesirable to the actor, the only thing that matters is that event C necessarily follows from action A in environment B, Free will, if it exists, also applies to previously experienced events, and anyone can make the choice to completely change the course of history, with an equal or (arguably) better chance of improving it's desirability from their perspective, as would any action in the present.

Most fiction relies upon fatalism, that the events of the past are what are meant to have happened, that any other set of events would have produced an inferior result, and using the consequences of time travel as a message from god not to alter is design, when you bring in consequences not tied to the specific actions of the time-traveler, but to the act of time travel itself, such as paradoxes, the imminent destruction of space-time, etc. It's kind of like god directly punishing them for going against his wishes.

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File: 139e7f31382b68c⋯.gif (66.98 KB,264x224,33:28,7dce5ec40fd2636e49b9c1874f….gif)

36d1f3 No.4887 [Open thread]

As the thread says.

Finding a list of times the laws of reality have been successfully deducted is a hard thing because nobody cares, but think about the past times people have done it:

Greeks guessed that material was made of "atoms" and that was what held material together.

Albert Einstein guessed that gravity was composed of "waves" and on 2016 we learned this was true.

The above people did not have proof of their hypothesis, they simply reasoned or guessed it.

Smarter people simply seem to be able to pull it off.

Are ALL laws of the universe understandable through basic knowledge of the universe and then applied logic? Were the two above guesses just luck?

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36d1f3 No.4964

>>4887

Yes, a posteriori a priori. Hegel did it.

This happens when laws are found to be specific determinations of a more general law from which the specific form derives. This has happened quite a few times in the last century, where the mathematics is discovered to provide for such a collapsing of "laws."

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36d1f3 No.4965

I mean, this is the reason why theories exit. Without looking you can predict what is going to happen. That's also an indispensable criteroin for being able to falsify a theory like Newtons about time and space. But i think you are more into some kind of rationalism that synthesizes its knowledge from basic ideas, which are existing apriori in our minds (maybe like the carteasian meditations). So maybe your question is about the possibility of synthetic a priori judgments. -->Google

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36d1f3 No.5041

>>4887

What you are referring to is, as you say, a set of hypotheses, not deductions per se.

But I assume your question is whether or not it's the case that all natural laws that are, as of yet, unobserved make enough sense to the human mind so as to, theoretically, be concievable well before the appropriate discoveries and actually informed hypotheses have been made.

Simple response is that there's no way to tell. Given that a 'law of nature' is a formulation made by the human mind, I would deem it possible. But this says nothing about the things that have necessitated or invited the formulation of the law in the first place.

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36d1f3 No.5045

File: 4d8d055b16cee00⋯.png (585.85 KB,946x2017,946:2017,kant.png)

You can prove some of them in the way that Kant did, by proving that things must work a certain way as a requisit for us to have experience of it at all. Of course this would then only apply to appearances, but what doesn't?

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60b2a6 No.5318

"Deducted" means "to subtract." As in, "My rent was deducted from my bank account." The word you want is 'deduced.'

After deducting the natural laws from logic, what's left? Isn't logic itself a natural law? Are you claiming logic meta-exists, transcending all other laws?

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94364d No.2777 [Open thread]

I have question to ask this guy, can you prove it?

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94364d No.2781

I am thinking, therefore I am completely certain I exist.

non-skeptics: 1

skeptics: 0

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94364d No.2788

>>2781

That's an analytic truth, nobody really cares about those. What skepticism concerns is with how you know that you have truth. Truth here concerns the world.

Truth requires that you know the form of truth to be obtained already, and that you have a method of coherently grasping that truth and justifying it. Those are two contradictory positions. How do you know what truth looks like in order to even begin asking how to get it?

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94364d No.2789

>>2781

How do I know you are thinking? How do I know that I am the originator of these thoughts, they could be holistic experience of external stimuli of which the true nature I could never know, as well as it's logic or lack thereof exist as more then our experience alone, and that indeed it is also wrong?

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94364d No.2939

>>2781

What do you mean by I?

Any sort of self beyond thought is surely reliant on things subject to sceptical doubt (e.g. memory of past thoughts).

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94364d No.4886

Nothing can be truly known, not even this.

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File: 1444946028502-0.jpg (Spoiler Image,182.24 KB,1280x853,1280:853,image.jpg)

File: 1444946028503-1.jpg (Spoiler Image,76 KB,500x715,100:143,image.jpg)

8a2a30 No.2139 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

Discuss whether any of these are 'morally wrong?' Pictures are of Saaya irie when she was 11.

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8a2a30 No.4870

>>2139

all activities related to child porn, except for "performing" in it, or recording it, or anything else that actually requires you to either abuse a child or be an accomplice to the abuse, should be legal, as it does not contribute to the abuse of children.

if i watch a 6 year old girl get fucked, it does not cause her to experience the fucking all over again, nor does it cause another 6 year old girl to get fucked as well, if i post it up online, even if i charge for it, it will only have the same lack of effect.

in fact, it might actually decrease the amount of 6 year old girls getting fucked, by giving pedos a form of release that they would not get anywhere else, except by fucking a 6 year old girl.

the important part is that we maintain the illegality of fucking 6 year old girls, whether or not it is being recorded by a camera.

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8a2a30 No.4872

>>4870

>as it does not contribute to the abuse of children.

Does paying for it not contribute to it?

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8a2a30 No.4873

>>4872

then just illegalize paying for it.

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8a2a30 No.4874

>>4870

the main reason i personally support this, is it removes the one kind of contraband from the internet that everyone supports keeping illegal.

and because of this, the government can use it as cover for their attempts to censor the internet.

and you know, rape hysteria is how they do it offline, the only reasons they use adult women, is because little girls are untrustworthy puppets.

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023571 No.5320

>>2144

>Right well I'm not a professional but it's certainly immoral to have sex with someone who can't really be aware of the consequences or emotionally mature enough

What is "all women", Alex.

As per Jim, the pedophilia hysteria is suppressed concern for who sexually mature and fertile women are sexing, which arose because openly expressing the latter concerns became low status, and then illegal.

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File: 1470797469891.gif (91.61 KB,334x232,167:116,1387852080654.gif)

2d1f5d No.4365 [Open thread]

So I'm a moral nihilist and atheist who believes in reductionist materialism.

Interested to see what the arguments against my positions are, so I'm looking for the common refutations against these positions, as well as general opinions and the like.

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2d1f5d No.4849

>>4847

I want the opposite.

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2d1f5d No.4850

>>4847

Nietzsche is THE pinnacle.

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2d1f5d No.4854

>>4847

Nietzsche details why you should not do such a thing in his own books. Are you sure?

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2d1f5d No.4857

>>4854

He criticized religion in several places, but I can't think of a book where he turns into Hitch. So how about Hume?

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2d1f5d No.4858

>>4857

>He criticized religion in several places

But he always noted that the rabble had to follow religion because it was good for them.

Like yeah he criticized many things but it wasn't always a "dump this" outright. Bad/Good things have a scale and religion isn't outright bad.

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File: 1f4afda1b9fce28⋯.jpg (178.2 KB,1920x1080,16:9,jacobs-ladder-570811987a11….jpg)

f1a122 No.4838 [Open thread]

why humans is so fucus on new year

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f1a122 No.4839

symbolism?

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File: 9eb6621e195292d⋯.jpg (9.68 KB,276x182,138:91,images-1.jpg)

5312ba No.4822 [Open thread]

Philosophy with coffee: have you been to one? The nearest philosophy club in my area is like 90 km away. Lucky European bastards.

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5312ba No.4825

i live in a pretty small city in poland so no philosophy cafe for me :/

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5312ba No.4831

>>4822

>philosophy club

You should be thankful it's that far away and hopefully as inactive. The old coffee houses and salons were places where the actual intelligentsia came to, not their dumb fanbases. There are no real philosophy clubs anymore. The closest are PHD grads who hang out together irl or online through blogs.

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File: 0fe9d06340c825d⋯.png (415.84 KB,566x853,566:853,bueno.png)

84d783 No.4823 [Open thread]

That could be a materialist trench.

Gustavo Bueno's philosophical system is one of the last attempts to stay on materialist side of philosophy. Has a new insight on what materialism means (understanding the matter as not reducible to the corporeal; Materialist essays is THE book on it) and, at the same time, a materialistic proposal of what the sciences are (categorical closure theory). His philosophy connects with the tradition of the Platonic academy and dialogues with Marxism and Diamat (Soviet philosophy). It rejects the monistic conception of materialism and places itself in a pluralism.

A small synthesis

http://www.fgbueno.es/ing/gbm.htm

What is a categorical closure?

http://fgbueno.es/ing/gbm/1978pais.htm

Sciences as Categorical Closures

http://fgbueno.es/ing/gbm/2013sacc.htm

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84d783 No.5001

File: 41d6cd7bd2e0aab⋯.jpg (122.06 KB,640x480,4:3,raf-sap-marx-spinoza.jpg)

>>4975

Materialism added. Thanks!

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84d783 No.5009

BV here. I'm pinch hitting for the BO while she's on vacation. Unfortunately ...

>>4975

>>5001

Welcome.

Now though I need to figure out how to replace the "no flag" option, which was inadvertently deleted. My bad. I think I can rig something with a transparency. More to come.

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84d783 No.5010

File: 4a81d350476aff4⋯.png (436.28 KB,657x502,657:502,foxxy.png)

>>5009

>She

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84d783 No.5035

materialism is silly tbdesu

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84d783 No.5044

File: 26d03285629f111⋯.jpg (5.83 KB,150x150,1:1,Miners-of-Northern-Urals-1….jpg)

>>5035

Why?

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