No.23 [Last50 Posts]
That's my question.
The 4chan /vr/ is a fantastic place, but the only thing I dislike is the eternal discussion of what's retro and what is not.
In my opinion, discontinued hardware is retro, that includes PS2, Gamecube, Dreamcast…
What is not retro? Current Generation and the inmediately preceding one, even if the hardware is discontinued. That's why Wii is still not retro.
What do you think?
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No.24
>>23That def sounds alright to me. Sort've how like classic rock radio basically has the "one decade must pass before something is considered classic" de facto rule. Thus one generation must pass between said candidate generation and current generation before it's considered retro.
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No.26
I think 2000 and previous years should be retro.
Why? Because Thief 2 came out in 2000 and I always want to talk about it.
Also, I think remakes of retro games should be okay. Like the Gabriel Knight remake. If it's an old retro game that's being remade and nobody cares about it on /v/ and wanting to discuss it, it should be welcomed on /vr/ in my opinion.
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No.33
>>26Yeah, but that leaves out Xbox and Gamecube (both came out in 2001), which honestly should be included since they are technologically in the same generation as Dreamcast and PS2.
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No.51
>>23>>33Personally I'm fine with that generation of consoles being discussed here.
Leaving it out is like keeping them as the middle child and who on /v/ is gonna talk about that generation anymore.
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No.69
While I would rather not take Xbox, PS2 and stuff; I am fine with them being brought up in discussions where they would have relevance with previous games. Though really to be fair I guess if we have Dreamcast we should have Gamecube and PS2
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No.72
>>23to me it's 3rd-5th gen. anything before just feels archaic to me, and anything after feels increasingly modern. i like grouping the GBA together with them though, for some reason.
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No.79
>>69just up 2 the sixth gen consoles seems like a good cut off date for games
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No.82
>>23I personally don't care and use /vr/ as a better /v/, i.e. post about any game I like from any year
no one seems to mind
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No.92
If there have been more than 4 new hardware iterations since the discontinuation of the project it's retro to me. Since the GBA Nintendo has had the DS, DSL, DSi, and 3DS. Therefore it is retro. Obviously if a company is no longer in business then I go by age. If it's been more than a decade, then it is retro.
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No.94
>>23
>This imageUsing Little Samson as a comparison is kind of unfair
That's like comparing someone's house to the Sears Tower and saying LOOK AT THIS THIS IS HOW TALL BUILDINGS ARE
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No.98
>>92What do you mean by 'hardware iterations' though?
Inside specs or redesigns?
The only difference between the DS and the DSL is a different plastic case, buttons, etc.
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No.99
>>23That's a terrible idea.
Dreamcast is fine, but 6th gen should be banned. It is absolutely not retro.
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No.100
I always liked the 15-year rule. Once a game is 15 years old, it's retro. This has a couple of advantages.
1. It is a rolling criteria that will stay relevant forever. /vr/'s current criteria will need to be changed inevitably.
2. It will be kind of fun every January 1st seeing which games get to be discussed here now.
3. You don't have to take an entire console's library. This would mean that, next year, we could discuss the PS2 launch games without automatically allowing discussion of the PS2 version of FIFA 14.
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No.105
>>23I agree with the discontinued hardware rule.
I love /vr/, but the current rules are kind of stupid. They just set a fixed, nonsensical date so that Dreamcast is allowed but nothing else in that generation is.
>>100This is good too. But I don't think it should be just January 1st. It could roll around with the console/game's birthdays.
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No.108
>>99This is how I feel.
Persona 4 is not retro.
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No.109
>>105The reasoning for /vr/'s dates has less to do with when they started making games for the system and more to do with when they ==stopped==.
They just can't use the "stopping" date as a metric because of shit like Pier Solar
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No.110
>>100See, but now we can't talk about Pier Solar and I feel like it's relevant to the board.
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No.115
THIS
No seriously, take a look at the games, they are pretty much forgotten, you can't have a thread about golden sun or advance wars on /v/ it would die within the hour
I also suggest the motion of allowing the ps2 xbox cube generation of consoles as well as pc games up to 2003 maybe
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No.116
I support the discontinued gen rule, it should also give us something to talk about in the mean time, you know that even in 4chan /vr/ was slow as a mule, the only thing keeping the front page moving was the horde of generals and chronno trigger threads, seriously we could discuss something else for a change
pic not so related
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No.136
I don't mind either way, but I will add that including GC, PS2 and Xbox could lead to some unwanted, persistent generals for popular games like Halo. Nothing wrong with that except that it could drown out other discussions and draw in a certain… element.
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No.142
I'm curious about something. Are we allowed to talk about arcade games that came out before 2000 if their main home console ports came out after 2000?
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No.149
>>136It's not Halo that should concern you. 2001 was the first Call of Duty.
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No.157
>>149don't allow more than one thread of a select games that are considered the bane of that generation, i don't think the CoD fans or halo fans would really come here anyway, GTA 3 has always been love or hate material
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No.159
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No.163
I wouldn't use a specific date because we'd have to keep guessing again and again when the generations go by. Instead, I suggest we use /v/ as a measuring stick, either oldchan's or ours: Whatever is too old to pretty much never be discussed on /v/ should go here.
If that's a dumb idea then we should go by generations rather than years
Anything but years
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No.178
>>163Yeah the year deadline is kind of weird since we can talk about Dreamcast, yet a significant amount of it's better titles came out after 2001. It gets really murky and I want to know what I can talk about without riling up my fellow neckbeards.
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No.184
>>100This is probably the best. That way we don't have to wait likely 6, 7 years for the next gen to discuss the Dreamcast, PS2, especially GBA.
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No.190
>>108What if instead of considering all the games for a platform retro we just look at the hardware, and 13 years of age for the games?
PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube are almost at the point of being retro. No major retailer carries Xbox or Gamecube games and PS2 games are starting to phase out here in the U.S.
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No.237
>>23Agreed. I don't know if retro is the right word for these consoles but this is board is a much better fit than /v/ for ps2 era games.
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No.376
>In my opinion, discontinued hardware is retro, that includes PS2, Gamecube, Dreamcast
No.
Sixth gen is when mainstream gaming cancer really REALLY got popular. The majority of sixth gen gaming fans probably started around that time, they do not mesh well with current /vr/, and most of them think Halo/GTA/FFX/P4/MGS/etc are the pinnacles of gaming. Not to mention the PS2 is probably the most overrated console of all time and I really don't want to bring console-specific fanboys in. That's how I feel anyway.
Dreamcast I might be convinced to make an exception for though
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No.379
>>376I started with the SNES when I was 2 and the Gamecube has probably been my most played system (between that and the good old Gameboy, anyway).
I'm on the fence about sixth gen discussions on here right now, but you seem a little too cynical, friend.
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No.382
I love PS2, but I wouldn't want to talk about it here.
There's shitloads of popular PS2 games that still get played and don't seem "retro" to me at all, like DMC3, MGS3, Persona 3 & 4, Okami, etc.
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No.389
>>379>but you seem a little too cynical, friendHappens to a lot of /v/irgins who have been playing games since before the PS2 generation.
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No.415
>>376>the PS2 is probably the most overrated console of all timeNot to derail, but could you explain why you feel this way? I'm curious.
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No.433
Topics of discontinued gaming products don't fit well on /v/. Why is a question or post on pic related not retro?
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No.435
>>115>I also suggest the motion of allowing the ps2 xbox cube generation of consoles as well as pc games up to 2003 maybeBalrog won't allow it. He's just picking and choosing what we can talk about as far as 6th-gen games consoles.
We're already having activity problems compared to the halfchan /vr/, God forbid we should have any kind of edge over them.
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No.455
I would prefer people be permitted to discuss things say, up to the creation of Halfchan.
It's all about having fun with older video games, isn't it? For the record, I got my first game system before Reagan was in office.
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No.609
>>149Please, like CoD kiddies care about anything before Modern Warfare. The first CoD didn't even have regenerating health; the first CoD was simply a cinematic WW2 shooter very similar to the MoH series in gameplay.
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No.657
Is it ok to talk about recent homebrew games for retro consoles?
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No.858
If we go by the discontinued console rule, that would include the Wii, and that doesn't feel right to me.
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No.874
>>23That sounds about right. PS2, Xbox, and GameCube are long dead consoles at this point. I can't imagine there is this subdermal layer of cancer waiting to burst forth and shit up the board with…. whatever it is people are so afraid of on PS2.
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No.888
Retro ain't making a videogame better. A good game is good, no matter when it was released. Graphically speaking, people who try hard to represent some sort of "retro" style in videogames should take in account that given the chance, many developers back then would use the resources we have nowadays and make something much better looking. There's a matter of limitations and people fail to see that normally they took focus on representing an idea and not just pixelated 2D graphics.
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No.897
>>23>I only dislike one thing about halfchan's retro board>I'm going to drag that over hereI had a giggle at that.
But I think you're actually spot on with the "discontinuation +1 gen" idea.
PS2 and hugebox don't feel retro to me, but I know there'd be a few genuinely old codgers saying the same about whippersnappers like me with their 16-bit consoles.
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No.1149
>>23I like the board definition so far, I didn't like how autistic 4 chan was about the rules. I am not a huge GBA fan myself but I think its acceptable content for the board. I do not consider those consoles actually retro but this is where I feel they do belong.
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No.1150
"retro" isn't a date..
5th generation and later consoles are not retro because they use 3d graphics as the standard and 3d graphics are still the standard..
when there is a new standard (maybe voice-command) all 3d consoles will be "retro"..
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No.1151
Personally I'd allow PS2/Xbox/GC/GBA discussion with the caveat that all games posted about must be at least 10 years old.
For PC games nothing released later than 2003.
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No.1166
I think 20 years is a fair metric, if we discuss ps2 and xbox stuff it's not really retro at all. Hell, some xfat games looked better than the crap we get today, at the same goddman resolution.
It also solves the issue of PC and arcade games, because there are no generations for those. Discussing only console games is extremely boring.
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No.1173
>>1150That's arbitrary and inane.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that it should be for games whose systems are not seeing new title launches in the customary fashion. New Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, and TurboGrafX games are being made to this day, and getting released as more than just ROMs, but nothing's hitting Target shelves or anything.
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No.1176
>>1173But that's even more arbitrary, considering the dozens of arcade systems that exist. Also that would make all PC games current since they're still being released.
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No.1222
Reminder that the wii and DS will be almost 10 soon.
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No.1226
>>1150"3d graphics" have nothing to do with it. And they don't really use 3d graphics as "standard".
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No.1234
>>1150>5th generation and later consoles are not retro because they use 3d graphics as the standard and 3d graphics are still the standard..1st generation and later consoles are not retro because they use electricity as the standard and electricity is still the standard
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No.1297
>>100Personaly I think rolling 10 years would be better.
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No.2555
>>23
I agree. 6th gen threads die too quickly in /v/ to have any sort of discussion. We should be able to talk about 6th gen. If we went by years there would be a lot of confusion. Also, I really want to talk about xbox/ps2 collecting.
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No.2556
>>897
mind if i save that pic mate? It fully describes how I feel playing old games with my nephew. I want him to like my favorite games from my childhood so badly. I don't know why it matters so much to me.
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No.2558
>>2555
I'd be fine if this was a "retro encouraged" board, but you could still post things on the fringe of retro, with no super strict rules or lines drawn in the sand. It's not this board is gonna get flooded with wii discussion or something.
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No.2559
>>2556
>mind if i save that pic mate?
You're going to have to get express written permission from Fuji Television if you want that jpeg. Hope your keigo is up to scratch.
And while I can't remember the exact context of the pic in question (pretty sure that news segment was just a snippet about a live event), are you certain it captures your feelings? Because knowing Arino, that's him stomping some eight year-old at a game and rubbing it in.
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No.2572
>That picture
>Indie "8-bit" game
>Crazy effects and modern music, the only retro thing on it are the sprites
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No.2577
>>2559
I just sent him a letter. he should get it in about 2 weeks. Also, I go easy on my nephew in vidya so I guess i was wrong about the context of the pic.
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No.2582
>>2577
>2 weeks
Based Japan Post.
And if your nephew enjoys playing retro shit with you, he'll come to enjoy it independent of you in good time.
I know mine play a hell of a lot of modern trash with their friends, but they still know that retro games are something worth their time, not "lel too old". Why? Because they had good experiences with retro games with me. They had fun with older games.
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No.2588
Love how "retro" boards always turn out to be all about PS1 and later games and a few SNES games today's gamers remember.
That's not retro.
The only real definition of retro is pre-1995. Even though that includes the SNES games, at least we'd be rid of all the PS1/N64 and later stuff which people talk about on gaming boards anyway.
Limiting it to pre-PS1 generation would actually encourage discussion of truly old games and systems instead of ones that really aren't that old yet.
Tired of the modern gamer definition of retro. PS1 generation was the beginning of the modern gamer mentality of style over substance and the courting of people who would have been non-gamers before.
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No.2589
>>2588
This kinda sums up my qualms as well. I just think the board should just be a broad older gaming type of board. There's really no other board where discussion is that in depth or great for these games stuck in a sort of generational limbo.
I think retro is a big misnomer when it comes to what people want to talk about here.
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No.2625
>>23
I go by year. I'd say any game that's at least 15-20 years old is retro.
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No.2691
>the only thing I dislike is the eternal discussion of what's retro and what is not.
Especially when it's right there in the rules.
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No.2693
>>2588
You have a pretty fucked up sense of time. The Playstation is 4 years newer than the SNES. Compared to the time that has passed, and that difference is nothing.
Also, the SNES is heavily style over substance and was marketed as such.
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No.2796
>>2588
Love how "retro" boards always turn out to be all about SNES and later games and a few NES games today's gamers remember.
That's not retro.
The only real definition of retro is pre-1990. Even though that includes the Amiga games, at least we'd be rid of all the SNES/Genesis and later stuff which people talk about on gaming boards anyway.
Limiting it to pre-SNES generation would actually encourage discussion of truly old games and systems instead of ones that really aren't that old yet.
Tired of the modern gamer definition of retro. Genesis generation was the beginning of the modern gamer mentality of style over substance and the courting of people who would have been non-gamers before.
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No.2798
>>2796
>The only real definition of retro is pre-1990
That's a completely arbitrary definition plucked from thin air.
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No.2806
>>2796
>Limiting it to pre-SNES generation would actually encourage discussion of truly old games and systems instead of ones that really aren't that old yet.
For one 15-20 years isn't old? In an industry as fast growing as video games?
Beyond that what is there really to discuss about pre-SNES games? They were fun little games at the time but nothing too complex.
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No.2856
>>1150
Thats Star Fox and Doom fucked then
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No.2889
OP's idea sounds pretty accurate. Who cares though?
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No.3058
>>2806
>Beyond that what is there really to discuss about pre-SNES games? They were fun little games at the time but nothing too complex.
you dumb nigger
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No.3226
Holy shit, how is it this hard to come up with an agreeable standard? I thought you folk would've already had an idea in mind.
1. What's the point in coming here if it's got the same restricting, oppresive limitations as halfchan? The original /vr/ wouldn't be nearly as bad if it weren't for the bombastic and inane "this isn't retro" claims, limiting discussion potential.
Make this place better. Include the Dreamcast's competitors and the Game Boy Advance if for no other reason than they're widely requested as topics of discussion that the absolute shit policies on the original won't allow.
2. I agree with the concept that retro has no date, and that retro may be a mild misnomer, but we need something to measure by, and we've determined here in this thread that no single measurement is entirely accurately or reliable on its own.
The first measurement that comes to mind when answering the question "what should and shouldn't be discussed?" is how does it fare on a /v/ analogue? From my experience, anything that's not current, or the immediately preceding generation, tends to be severely neglected and offers no discussion value. Hence the purpose of this board.
Absolutely not current generation, and probably not the generation that just passed.
3. I also agree with the notion that the rules shouldn't follow a strict, unmoving standard that would have to be constantly updated, such as "1999 + Dreamcast," because that standard will change over time. An ideal standard would be one that moves with time and would require no further redefinition.
Although imperfect, having a standard such as "no discussion of the last/previous two generations" would be permanently applicable and doesn't require freedom of interpretation
4. Generations are a better standard than years, on principle. For an extreme example, say something happens wherein a decade goes by where the gaming industry stagnates, but the rules still say no discussion of the past [x] years. That would be counterproductive and doesn't intuitively measure the history of the industry.
Measuring by agreed upon standards for generational progress gives a more accurate and systematic way of grouping and comparing platforms. Years guarantee nothing and are a cop out.
The way I'd propose it is as follows:
· Discussion pertains only to platforms which have been discontinued, and/or are no longer in production. Any entailing equipment, software, games, accessories that exist for the purpose of supporting such platforms, regardless of their release, qualify.
This would allow for discussion of homebrew games such as Pier Solar and Halo 2600 that were released relatively recently, but don't contradict any rules because their intended function was for platforms that are decidedly retro.
"Retro," for lack of a better term, should include anything that's officially discontinued per the manufacturer, and no longer widely supported, such as through retailers. I can still find previous generation games at places such as Walmart, for example. I wouldn't be able to find much past that.
As for specific line-drawing, there's no viable argument for disallowing discussion on the Xbox, GameCube, or Game Boy Advance. They're very close the Dreamcast's release dates, most of which were its direct competitors competing in the same market at the same time, all of which are very well discontinued, can no longer be found at any major outlet, have lost support, and would do very poorly in a modern gaming discussion venue such as /v/.
They have a home here. There's no reason to say they don't belong.
The only place I have some reticence towards is the PS2 due to its library longevity. For this particular case, I may say the years have a place, as FIFA 14 can unanimously be considered non-retro, but the PS2 itself may not.
I would absolutely say the PS2 qualifies, but some of its later library offerings wouldn't. I don't consider this a perfect proposal, but something along the lines of "the PS2, and any of its pre-7th generation games are free for discussion," or "any PS2 games older than 10/11/12/13/14/15 (openly debatable) years are freely discussed."
It shouldn't be this hard.
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No.4692
>>23
There's a /vr/ here on fullchan as well
>>>/vr/
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No.4693
>>433
Panasonic Gamecube!?
WTF!?
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No.4701
>>4693
It was seriously decked out too. A real battlestation.
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No.4710
For me it's basically stuff like this:
386SX PC, Amiga 500, and older computers
NES
Sega Genesis
So pretty much the stuff you'd be able to find in the very early 90's and prior, and where pic was a good example of cutting-edge 3D.
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No.4730
Anything prior to 2003, and anything on the Dreamcast or GBA regardless of year, according to the Board Owner
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No.4765
>>4730
>Anything prior to 2003, and anything on the Dreamcast or GBA regardless of year, according to the Board Owner
I'm the new board owner. I'm personally in the (unfortunately small) camp that believes "retro" really and truly means pre-NES/SMS stuff like Atari games, Colecovision, Pong Consoles, 70's/early 80's Arcade games like iRobot, Sinistar and Space Invaders, Vectrex, VIC-20, C64 and stuff. Of course when we say we're talking about "retro games" a lot of people mean Nintendo games, some mean 16-bit stuff and others pretty much everything before the 6th gen. The 6th gen really is the first "modern" generation (excluding the Dreamcast) but it was a great time for video games because all these companies were experimenting with this cutting edge hardware, and it was still possible to make games without fuckhuge multi-million dollar budgets (and technically it still is possible but the current slew of wham-bam-thank-you-mayam investors we have in this fucked up system don't believe in long term investments anymore, nor do they want to take risks nowadays)
Of course pre-1985 stuff is not what we exclusively come here for because MOST people who like "retro" games mean differently despite the literal definition. I personally love talking about Japanese home computers, SEGA consoles, arcade games and stuff that falls into similar categories, but I enjoy the broad topic of this stuff in general. In the sense of /vr/ terms defining "retro", I do believe the Dreamcast should be considered retro because it was the end of an era. It was the time where arcades/arcade games drew their final breath, and the platform as a whole was really ambitious. The Dreamcast gave us a very bright look into the future of video games that unfortunately died along with the console. Its it's own special period, like the apex of all the things we collectively love about 20th century video games even if it's not necessarily the best console of it's era.
I don't believe that anything afterwards should be considered retro ever because of how different the world of games was in the 20th century as opposed to the modern industry. However I do find early 6th gen discussion acceptable since it's already in the rules. I have kept Balrog's old rules word for word (except removing the outlaw of porn dumps, I really don't see a problem but I leave that to your feedback.) because even though I don't believe that 6th gen stuff other than the Dreamcast should be considered retro, I do not want to take away something that has been well established for a long time. As an avid purchaser of obscure Japanese PS2 games I can absolutely see how most of the early 6th gen could fall into a similar category as the Dreamcast due to runoff of old practices so I will not challenge it. I don't see a problem with GBA discussion because of the types of games it has on it generally appealing to people like us and in Balrog's words "lack of shitposting magnet." If we open up vidya discussion to be any newer /vr/ will serve no purpose other than just being another /v/ clone (and it doesn't make a difference if we're an alternative to an existing 4chan board, there's still a million /v/ clones that are much slower than we are, mostly because they're pure shitposting and not a board with an established purpose.)
I welcome everyone's feedback on this. This is what I currently believe and am enforcing as the new board owner. No new rules were added except the crucial NO SPAM rule which should have been there already. (I'm sure most of us that actively use this board for a while have noticed all the spam we've gotten over time which is gone now.)
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