No.28927 [View All]
Written by Tom Veitch and drawn by Cam Kennedy
>Six years after the Battle of Endor, the fight for freedom rages on. Darth Vader is dead, but a reborn Empire—under a mysterious new leader—strikes back at the struggling Rebel Alliance. Massive World Devastators, more powerful and unstoppable than the Death Star, ravage entire planets, while the ruthless heirs of Jabba the Hutt place a monumental price on the heads of Princess Leia and her husband, Han Solo. Along with Lando, Chewbacca, Artoo, Threepio, and other old allies, Han and Leia struggle to protect the future for their unborn child. But their greatest foe may be their closest friend: Luke Skywalker…
This will be a storytime of six issues from 1992. I will refrain from commenting on the story in the same posts as the pages themselves as since I probably wont like them, that would distract from people reading the pages and forming their own opinions. Hopefully with the actual comic being present, we can have a better conversation about this series.
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No.29044
>>29023
It may have been integrated, but that doesn't make its own story worth reading. The most positive elements I'm seeing from it are small details like holocrons, so at best small parts of the comic work in the same way that concept art does. But just like concept art this story is not needed to enjoy the high quality stuff which lifts the concepts and refines them. Actually, I don't like that comparison because I greatly enjoy looking at concept art.
>Kevin J Anderson
>Much maligned
I imagine the reason for that is because he tries to artificially inflate his own stories by trying to tie them into the moments and histories of the movies without earning such significance. His IG-88 story certainly doesn't earn it's Death Star moment (the reason I bring up this story so much is because the only Anderson stuff I've read is Darrksaber and the three Tales from anthologies that he edited, of which his short stories and Zahn's short stories are all the weakest)
I plan on continuing to explore the EU, but I'm going to focus on reading the stuff I've actually liked or might like, before sipping back into Anderson's nonsense. The fact that this comic was originally intended to be part of the Marvel comics explains a lot, and that's probably why the modern Disney Jason Aaron comics seem compatiable with this story as well. All of those comics are focused on repeating and regirtiating movie moments and movie characters. To them Star Wars is more about Luke and Han than it is about the themes and greater vision Lucas was going for. I think the obssesion with the Original Trilogy is due to a stunted imagination on the part of many Star Wars fans. Rian Johnson did it in a horrible and shitty way, but at least he attempted to bury the shadow of the OT that looked over everything. J. J. will no doubt reverse all of that and go back to trodding out characters like Lando and maybe Mon Mothma.
The Luke I found interesting in the EU was the Luke training new Jedi and mainting his own Jedi Temple and organization as it was his character doing something new. I imagine that Dark Empire 2 and 3 will hopefully actually show some of this as well since the first ends on him talking about training new Jedi Knights?
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No.29062
>>29044
>It may have been integrated, but that doesn't make its own story worth reading
I didn’t say the story was getting better because of that. I was addressing the claim that DE wasn’t adding anything to the setting beyond holocrons or was skippable.
>I plan on continuing to explore the EU, but I'm going to focus on reading the stuff I've actually liked or might like, before sipping back into Anderson's nonsense
I take it you’re the same guy who liked Dawn of the Jedi and “criticized” (didn’t read any criticism that wasn’t "lol JSW" bait in that thread) the Thrawn books. If even Zahn doesn’t do it for you, then I think the issue here is that the main stories from the New Republic/Bantam Books era just aren’t for you.
Luke, Han and Leia, aka The Big Three, are pretty much untouchable after ROTJ and they don’t undergo any major character arcs after the movies. It’s not just Dark Empire or KJA’s books – most of these “main” stories draw heavily from the OT (they tend to come in trilogies too) and feature permutations of familiar concepts (*another* dark side user or super weapon or Jedi survivor and *always* the type of character interaction you mentioned here >>28934) rather than go to new places like the Prequels did. Mind you, at the beginning the EU was less of an interconnected universe and just regular tie-in fiction with a shared timeline as a gimmick.
Personally, I like DE simply because it’s so laser focused on extending ideas from the movies. And I dig the art. It's a flawed gem to me but I don't think I can change anyone's mind on that if they don't like it.
Since you're still exploring, as you said, mind if I recommend you some stuff instead? You could try the X-Wing comics and novels which focus on new and underexplored characters. They fill out the gap between ROTJ and Thrawn/Dark Empire and do a lot of worldbuilding on how the Empire gradually lost ground and fractured. It helps that Stackpole and Allston are counted among the EU’s better writers. There’s even a spin-off novel "I, Jedi" which is about one of the Rogues Squadron pilots joining Luke’s Jedi academy at the same time as the events from KJA’s books. It even follows the same plotline for a good third of its own story. That way you can skip the Jedi Academy Trilogy.
Or how about more from the Old Republic setting: Tales of the Jedi, Knights of the Old Republic, Knight Errant. Like Dawn of the Jedi , these stories are so far removed from the movies that authors were able to create their own protagonists, conflicts and stakes, and even interpretations of the force.
>I imagine that Dark Empire 2 and 3 will hopefully actually show some of this as well since the first ends on him talking about training new Jedi Knights?
There's no Dark Empire III. The third part was canceled and they had to wrap it up in a measly two parter called Empire's End.
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No.29067
>>29062
>The third part was canceled
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No.29068
>>29067
Not to mention the art took a nosedive with Cam Kennedy leaving.
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No.29069
>>29068
>>29067
We just can't seem to get things.
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No.29070
>>29044
Forgot to address this:
>The fact that this comic was originally intended to be part of the Marvel comics explains a lot, and that's probably why the modern Disney Jason Aaron comics seem compatiable with this story as well. All of those comics are focused on repeating and regirtiating movie moments and movie characters.
Nah, the pre-EU Marvel comics are nothing like the current ones. The old ones were often crazy and all over the place, but that's because SW was still new and there were no guidelines for the setting. It also had some really gems because of that freedom. Modern Marvel (and not just them) is on the other side of the spectrum.
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No.29072
>>29070
Arrogantus was a true charmer unlike Enfys Nest.
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No.29073
>>28950
It just looks good. I like it.
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No.29077
>>29073
I respect that. I don't mind people liking Dark Empire so long as they don't pretend that it's objectively good.
>>29062
Thank you for the recomendations. I'll definitely check out I, Jedi and those X-Wong books.
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No.29078
>>29077
>X-Wong
Phone posting.
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No.29098
>>29007
Crimson Empire is awesome. The plot isn't rocket science but the fact it centers around post Dark Empire Imperials and Royal Guards is cool. It got taken down, but there was a video of the comic panels edited up to fit with the audio book version. I really liked the voice acting because it was a nice medium quality that made it feel genuine, without the characters sounding like they were overacting. Maybe it is still floating around somewhere.
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No.29104
>>29077
>objectively good comic book colouring
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No.29105
Sorry for being a pleb but I never knew when was this. Can I read it before the Thrawn trilogy? has it ever been just a comics?
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No.29106
>>29105
Apparently it was originally intended to come between RotJ and Thrawn, but Zahn, already being in the middle of writing those books, didn't want to have to alter the plot to account for this, so it was placed shortly after Thrawn.
What I gather is they're pretty much alternative follow-ups to the OT, and don't have much influence on each other (but both are considered canon in later EU works?).
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No.29107
>>29105
Thrawn Trilogy -> Dark Empire -> Crimson Empire
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No.29108
>>29104
>>objectively good comic book colouring
Yes. It exists.
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No.29109
>>29108
Don't really like it.
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No.29110
>>29107
The correct order.
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No.29112
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No.29113
>>29112
That just looks bland to me. Nothing about it really pops, and it has that soft digital colouring look.
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No.29114
>>29112
It's not too bad, but it's a bit boring.
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No.29115
>>29114
*meant to say in comparison to some of the other stuff
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No.29117
>>29113
>That just looks bland to me
If you really believe this, I don't know what to tell you. I'm guessing you don't, though. You just want to disagree.
>>29114
It's boring because it properly colors things depending on the scenes taking place? In open Seasons all the different planets have different lighting that makes sense, and in the other page I posted, you see the sunlight change from day, to afternoon, to the golden hour, to night. Whoever colored Open Seasons is one of the best.
I don't know why you're posting some other random comic right now. That page looks fine to me, the Stormtroopers are actually WHite and the green is emanating from the planet. The problem with Dark Empire is that all the random colors that filter the art make no sense, and serve no purpose, they are neither realistic, nor do they enhance the mood of the comic, unless the story is meant to make you want to vomit.
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No.29118
>>29117
I can respect technical skill when I see it, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure what makes uncreative block colouring objectively good.
I think you just like boring art, to be honest.
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No.29121
>>29118
>hurrr, i'm gonna post a picture from a Euro comic that was made over the length of a year in a totally different environment than American comics
You're completely full of shit. You're trying to bait me now by saying I like boring art, all you want to do is perpetuate e-drama because your ass is sore from last time. Dark Empire looks absolutely nothing like the page you just posted. You can go and post a bunch of random good comic art, but it's not going to change the fact that the coloring in Dark Empire is terrible.
But since you're so focused on diverting the conversation off of the actual topic, okay. Lets bring up examples from Euro comics. Here are two pages from Wake. One of them is filtered through blue, while the other isn't, do you know what the blue represents? It represents night time. When you filter an entire scene through one color, it is to represent a change in lighting, lighting is one of the biggest factors in mood. Color in visual mediums is part of the storytelling, it's not just random bullshit that you can change whenever you want without consequence like some Andy Warhol bullshit.
I think you just like post-modern art, to be honest.
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No.29122
>>29121
I like post-modern art if it's interesting to look at. I dislike boring art, because it's boring. I'm more than happy with style for the sake of style. Just make your shit look good.
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No.29123
>>29122
>I dislike boring art, because it's boring.
>muh boring
Boring is the worst criticism one can ever have for art of any kind.
"I didn't like Crime and Punishment because it was boring! I didn't like Stalker because it was boring! I didn't like the Prequels because they were boring!"
Boring is a subjective descriptor, it says nothing about the art, and everything about you. Of these two pieces of art, which one do you like more? Is the one on the left too boring for you? Congratulations, your brain has been fried by Nicki Minaj music videos and you're a moron.
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No.29124
>>29123
the first painting's pretty lame. Wouldn't hang it on my wall. The second one's alright, because you can see her tits.
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No.29125
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No.29126
>>29125
Go on then. What about some bint with a basket on her head speaks to you?
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No.29127
>>29117
No, it's bland because it looks flat and the colors are bit boring- though admittedly that could be due to the scan. I'd call it competent, but nothing too special. The faces of the characters is a strong point though.
I posted that page from Agent of Doom because the artist from Dark Empire also did a fair number of the Boba Fett comics, and I feel it represents what he was attempting to do with the original Dark Empire but improved and tightened up a bit. Though I think the art in Dark Empire 2 is probably the ideal middle ground between the surreal style he was experimenting with and more traditional comic art. I'd be okay with a full return of the trippy shit if it was used say for Waru or some of the more reality warping stuff in SW.
>>29121
Funny you should mention euro comics, because that's the background Cam Kennedy worked in before getting Lucasfilm to let him work on his Dark Empire pitch. If anyone has a copy of the Light and Darkness War on their drive, it'd be interesting to see for comparison.
>>29123
Nah, the one on the right is boring. As bizarre as it to draw.photoshop a clothes iron onto a woman's head. it's pretty mediocre on as an art piece since it's clear they just took a nude picture of a model and changed one aspect for shock value. Seen better porn anyways. The one on the right is a pretty good piece of art though. Wall-worthy for sure.
As for boring being used as a criticism- it doesn't really offer much detail as to why, but it's effective at getting the point across. Asking the reasons is fine, but I see no point in splitting hairs about the specific words uses in somebody's criticism unless you're looking to justify the expense you paid for an art/philosophy degree or something.
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No.29128
>>29126
I could talk about the value of forest settings and how romantic art that portrays natural settings resonates with people on a spiritual level, but I'm sure you don't give a shit. What I really love about Girl with Goat is that it's beautiful, it's idyllic, it's charming. It's a portal into a world I want to be a part of, and it reminds me why I love hiking. And the goat is cute.
>>29127
>I posted that page from Agent of Doom because the artist from Dark Empire also did a fair number of the Boba Fett comics, and I feel it represents what he was attempting to do with the original Dark Empire but improved and tightened up a bit.
Lmao, it's a different colorist. Cam Kennedy didn't color Agent of Doom. Nice attempt, though.
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No.29130
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No.29131
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No.29133
>>29128
Scratch that then. The rest of my post talking about Dark Empire 2 still stands though. Especially since with the coloring tightened up, it looks a bit less like somebody spilled watercolors onto the page- while still keeping a lot of the somewhat surreal feel to the artwork.
Glad to see your passive-aggressive shitposting is manifesting in ways other than mindless spam and attempting to irreparably fuck the board. You may be on a streak of contrarianism and trying to bait people into anger, but at least you're doing it a way that's more productive for the board than detrimental after the entire aldersperg-out.
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No.29137
>art discussion
lmao
>>29105
>has it ever been just a comics?
There's a fancy audiobook version with voice actors and special effects for the whole trilogy:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlKJO4D2BftX2tFV2z-i_29EcdugVh0pr
There's also a fan novelization for DE 1 called Test of the Wills. I heard good things about it, but never bothered with it since I prefer the comic version:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwK-WpnKI3w4U1FxTzZxMzNXbmM/view
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No.29140
>>28932
>eldritch threat
>we get a sense of Luke's growing power
>Luke doesn't run and hide on an island but faces the horror head on
>the gang is back together, and Leia is also a Jedi with two children whom Luke wants to train to bring about a new and better Jedi order
>the political situation the galaxy finds itself in makes total sense post the collapse of the Empire
This comic is already ten times better than what we got from Disney. It's honestly astounding to see just how much they fucked up when you look back on what could have been.
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No.29141
>>28934
>unbearable art
Fuck off. The art is great and is clearly meant to evoke the glow you might get from a computer screen, emergency lights, control panels etc. It gives the product this whole air of 80's sci-fi mysticism. I love it.
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No.29142
>>29141
It reminds me of vintage horror movie posters.
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No.29146
>>29117
I hate the way it looks.
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No.29147
>>29142
Is Maitresses de Dracula worth a watch?
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No.29149
>>29142
>>29141
Now that you mention it, the entire situation of the Emperor Reborn and all the skunkworks projects unleashed is pretty much a waking nightmare for the NR and the Galaxy at large. Thus, the comic constantly goes into unsettling, dreamlike colors and spreads.
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No.29150
>>28987
I personally love the art style.
The introduction of the dark side of the force as this eldritch, yet strangely beautiful, power in the galaxy was welcome (I am thinking of the aesthetics of the planet Byss and some of what Palpatine had to say).
Some of the new technology is pretty awe inspiring in its own way (much better than star killer).
It's great to see the gang actually working together again, and to see Leia progress as a Jedi and Luke as a master.
I have always liked the trope of taking on an aspect of the dark in order to truly overcome it only to wind up going too far.
The idea that the Empire could enter into a civil war is interesting.
——-
I am in overall agreement that the story is sadly too much of a rehash (it didn't need to be).
I would have liked to see more panels dealing with the mysticism of the dark side as this was easily the comic's most interesting angle.
Whilst the idea of using fire to fight fire is always interesting, I don't feel as if the writers were competent enough to do the idea justice. Luke's internal battle with the dark and the light comes across as a bit corny and underdeveloped, when it should have been ground breaking.
This constant and slavish devotion to the Jedi as these perfect higher beings is very off putting - particularly as the writers have Han of all people showing repeated deference as a mere "ordinary being." The whole point of Luke's New Jedi Order is that it does away with a lot of the pomp and dogma of the past. This comic seems to want to elevate it more than anything else, which is a mistake.
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No.29151
>>29147
It's kinda generic and goofy at times, except when Cushing's on screen. He almost makes you take the movie serious.
>>29117
Surprised at the reaction Open Season is getting. I agree with you about the way it used coloring.
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No.29162
>>29077
>so long as they don't pretend that it's objectively good.
so long as we don't pretend it's objectively bad either
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No.29192
>>29162
I don't really believe in objective quality in art. Yeah yeah, I'm an awful Commie. Get it out.
What you have is objective quality within certain frameworks. If your goal is a realistic landscape painting then you can objectively do that well, or objectively do that poorly. But you can just as easily discard that framework.
If this makes you angry, explain to me how it doesn't make sense.
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No.29204
>>29192
Art generally has a purpose. To tell a certain story, to depict a certain setting or person, whatever. The less able a piece of art is to fulfill its intended purpose the worse it is as art.
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No.29207
>>29204
The comic tells it's story, while tantalising us with interesting imagery. I don't see what's wrong with that, unless you think everything should serve a utilitarian purpose, and there's no room for stylistic flare.
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No.31078
>>29117
>he thinks that looks good
found the newbie pleb on visual arts
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No.31079
>>29121
But the images you posted are mediocre even for old standards of artistry that shit is painfully average.
>I think you just like post-modern art,
If that means that I like the exceptional instead of the average and the mediocre then by all means
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