/sw/ - Star Wars

Literally redditors and their kind.

RLM

While I do find them to be good movies, the CGI was fucking everywhere and is a valid complaint. In the commentary for TPM, the ILM guy talks about how the only shot in the whole film without CGI on screen is the gas coming out of the vent at the beginning. And George said they never made a clone trooper outfit for the films in the AotC commentary (I think in RotS as well, but i can't be sure).

>>23619

>>23620

This

>>23617

Initially, it came the same way any sequel (prequel in this case) disappointment does: fans looking through rose glasses hype themselves to death over the release, then get disappointed regardless of quality because even the second coming of Christ couldn't satisfy their expectations by that point; they get further frustrated when the script doesn't match their fanfiction draft word for word. Normally, these people would have calmed down after the initial disappointment and that would be it. But then "le geek culture XD" became mainstream, and with it was birthed the shitty RLM reviews. Suddenly whining about the prequels became the trendy thing, and even people who liked them just fine went along with it, because they assumed the "important people" knew better than they did, and they didn't wish to feel like the one idiot in the room. Incidentally, this is also why people hate the prequels for the same 3-4 retarded reasons, because rather than form opinions of their own, they were handed what to think by their authority figures, authority figures who have done nothing to earn this tiny sliver of prestige besides get mentioned by celebrities a couple times.

>>23621

>And George said they never made a clone trooper outfit for the films in the AotC

And no one would know if we weren't told, so who cares?

>>23622

>>23623

>simon pegg

>damon lindelof

lol, two reddit tier faggots who likely never read any of the EU, fuck I hate what happened to Star Wars,

>>23617

There were critiques out from a number of people, but they actually had reasons and the hateboner wasn't as mindbogglingly retarded as it is now.

1: The worst was from OTpurist fags whose reasons were the most superficial

<OMG MUH CHILDHOOD IS RUINED! THIS IS STUPIDER THAN THE EU!

2: The second most critical were lore and EU fans who weren't too fond of how the film sort of retconned some pre-existing elements and the backstory to the Clone Wars and Empire prior to the prequels, as well as shortening the time frame between the founding of the empire and the Battle of Yavin to only 17 years instead of 40 which would've made more sense for the Empire to gain such a strong hold and influence. In the end, more books and guides corrected the inconsistencies and fans were mostly pleased.

3: The third most critical were the movie going masses because they thought TPM was too childish yet they still loved Darth Maul and the fights. So did kids. So it was a mixed reaction all around and eventually the hate boner stopped after Revenge of the Sith, except with some lore fans, but guides once again compromised a bit.

Anyway, hate eventually did died down completely midway into the 2000s, but some of it was still kept alive via media that wouldn't shut up about how awful and racist the prequels were (like zombie Simpsons in all their endless faggotry). The Filoni Clone Wars cartoon movie did kinda rekindle it for a bit, but it wasn't until RLM's shitty review came out that the hateboner grew to memetic proportions and people started bashing them with more vitriol and pretentiousness. Still the hate was mostly mixed with now equal parts affection and hate, yet the haters were insanely going around talking shit about them on almost every review site after RLM, despite that the movies were almost a decade old, but shit really hit the fan when Disney bought Lucasfilm. Hate for the prequels and the EU skyrocketed once Disney announced the EU was no longer canon and that they wouldn't be doing anymore prequel-based stories. Naturally casual masses joined up with the OT purists because that's what Big Brother Disney said, and it all went to shit from there.

>>23625

Simon Pegg is an obnoxious twat, but he recently did cave to fan pressure and actually called TLJ shit. He's still a Disney asskissing faggot who still hates on EU and prequel fans yet loves JJ's pale ass.

>>23624

That particular point was against the people who yammer on and on about how so much the on-screen stuff was practical effects, but the CGI on the clones does show and they would be better off just making some armor.

>>23621

I can understand the distaste for gratuitous CGI, but I can give TPM/AoTC some amount of leeway because they were the first major films to play with CGI in a comprehensive way like that. That doesn't make the CGI better, but it makes me more forgiving because I'm aware that it was an experimental film in that regard.

>>23627

>but he recently did cave to fan pressure and actually called TLJ shit

That faggot only said that because TLJ shits on The Cuck Awakens, which he was in. The Last Jedi was honestly a blessing for actual Star Wars fans because it sabotaged Jew Jew's bullshit storylines.

>>23632

True enough. Wouldn't surprise me if Disney actually encouraged him to say it. That could be their next strategy. Blame Rian for everything and treat Jar Jar Abrams as the "savior of SW" when really he's probably even worse than that hack Rian. TLJ was beyond garbage, but I thank that worthless baby-faced beta Rian Johnson for removing the rose-tinted glasses from the masses and bringing about so much hate for Disney and love for what Star Wars used to be.

>>23617

it became a meme among millennials; nothing more

>>23639

>The only time he directly advances the plot is when he takes Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to Otoh Gunga. After that he really doesn't make any meaningful contribution to the story. The Phantom Edit cuts most of his goofiness and weird noises from the film and you won't even notice he's gone because his presence is mostly superfluous to the plot.

Jar Jar is meant to be a comedy relief nigger, he's not meant to greatly influence the plot, his purpose is to shuck and jive in the background. Now if one dislikes that sort of thing, fine, but his handling was not accidental. Lucas knew what he was doing.

a few major sources, op

1) butthurt ot purist manchildren who thought they would get the ot but on a bigger scale or some shit, so expectations out of control

2) reviewers who are said butthurt ot purist manchildren

3) RLM reviews

>>23617

>acting is shakespearean

it's soap opera, not shakespeare, lucas has stated this himself before

>cgi

i find it funny how they don't complain about the use of cgi in the new movies despite there being less sets/models and even more cgi than the prequels had. like, even the sets in the pt that had a lot of cgi or seemingly impossible to make planets were still models, the only non-model shit was some of the space scenes and even then that still used models, whereas disney wars has full-blown cgi scenes without a single model or set

>anakin

this ties back into the acting and the dialogue. of course they don't realize that anakin is a kid who was raised by several people, and so his brain shits itself all over the place when he's with certain crowds, it's why he spills spaghetti over padme and secretly hates obi-wan, this is where the soap opera factor comes in

>jar jar

jar jar was a fairly shit character with unrealized potential and the comic bits could have been cut, but otherwise he's fine. most of the cast can't stand him and the phantom menace reflects that at times. also, instead of bashing the fans for not liking jar jar, george listened to them and drastically cut his scenes in the next two movies to almost entirely nonexistent. but i would rather sit through jar jar shit than rose, that's for sure.

>>23648

>assblasted gen x boomers on internet message boards

So basically these faggots needed to be put in their place between 1999 and 2005. They were the very first ones I ever saw believe in what eventually became modern SJW stuff. If only people had realized that feminism and academia are shit back then, we could have stopped this.

>>23653

they are quite literally responsible for disney wars

>>23652

>instead of bashing the fans for not liking jar jar, george listened to them and drastically cut his scenes in the next two movies to almost entirely nonexistent

The fact that no one gives him credit for this really says a lot. Lucas clearly cared about the fans and never hated them, yet all most of them ever did was shit on him.

>Episode 1 is actually good and I don't understand why no one liked it, must be a meme

>le

OP is a faggot and so is everyone who goes along with him. Keep trying to retcon history from your sad little corner of the internet.

>>23660

>the redditors have arrived

Go watch Disney Wars, it was made specifically for you.

>>23665

Sorry, never been to reddit, and I hate Disney Wars. Keep trying to label and dismiss the truth though, very healthy.

>>23665

Also:

>Encouraging the use of le

Maybe it's you who is actually reddit? Just a thought.

>>23660

this man is also part of the problem, as i initially pointed out, the "butthurt ot purist manchildren". basically, these faggots are the section of the fanbase who adhere to only the OT+Pre-SE EU. for them, star wars stopped existing in 1997.

>>23626

What's the explanation for Obi-Wan becoming so old so fast?

>>23709

>only the OT+Pre-SE EU

Plebeian taste.

Only Star Wars (1977) and Star Wars Holiday Special (1978), now that's what I call PATRICIAN canon.

>>23719

Isn't it obvious? SAND.

>>23719

He was on a harsh desert planet for 20 years, living in an environment like that makes you look older than you actually are.

>>23639

It's a shame that people like RLM sorta took away any credibility constructive criticism had for the prequels, especially when they turned around and praised the Mouse even though they did the exact shit if not worse.

The prequels not having a central villain like Darth Vader actually helped because it wasn't the focus. In the OT, Luke's journey was to defeat and overthrow the Empire so having a central antagonist makes sense, but in the PT, it's about Anakin's fall into the dark side. Having a main villain would be an unnecessary distraction from that and would be Marvel movie-tier.

>>23719

obi-wan was already at least twenty years old by the time of phantom menace, so doing the math, that would put him minimum 60 years old by anh

>>23641

Then the problem is one of segregation. Even if we say that jar jar isn't objectively unfunny because DAT'S SUBJECTIVE, putting your comic relief in the background of serious scenes, or scenebuilding/worldbuilding shots, serves to distract the audience from what they're supposed be seeing. Regardless of whether the comedy is good or bad, this mixes up tone, and is a minor but undeniable weak point of the film.

>>23632

>doubling down on the stupidity was a good thing

the absolute state of disniggers

>>23731

The Last Jedi permanently damaged the Star Wars brand as a viable money maker for Disney, that's definitely a good thing.

>>23731

Do you even read man? TLJ is garbage, but its existence helped to make the normalfags finally realizes that Star Wars was no longer Star Wars, but was in fact Disney Wars. It was an insult to our heroes, but so was TFA, with the main difference being normalfags actually liked TFA, thankfully TLJ brought about more hate for TFA and Disney as a whole, and that's a good thing, despite it being a cinematic abortion.

>>23626

>as well as shortening the time frame between the founding of the empire and the Battle of Yavin to only 17 years instead of 40

But that makes more sense, only being in control for 17 years means there’s lots of people who were alive to see the republic fall. You think Hitler would have had any success at all if the Treaty of Versailles had occurred 40 years earlier to him joining the NSDAP? It’s because the empire was so younge that a large scale rebellion makes sense. It was a good change.

>>23749

>only being in control for 17 years means there’s lots of people who were alive to see the republic fall

Which is one of the problems with this idea, because the cultural and materiel changes are a little too vast to have taken place across an entire galaxy in ~19 years. That's too short a time for everyone to forget about the Jedi, for one–Jedi were alive and well for the first 10 years of Han Solo's life per the Legends timeline, and even as a street urchin, he grew up on a major Core world and would have heard stories of them all the time, especially when they visited the planet (which would have been fairly common as, again, Corellia is a major core world). But his attitude in ANH implies that the Jedi are such a distant memory for society that it's easy for him to say they never existed.

>It’s because the empire was so younge that a large scale rebellion makes sense. It was a good change.

If the Empire was a 2D cartoon villain that was objectively evil and everyone universally hated, that might make sense. But remember, the new order was declared to the sound of thunderous applause. It would have taken a while, years before people started to feel the pressure, and years more after that before they were willing to risk their lives to alleviate it instead of trying to do so internally. It also wasn't a "large scale rebellion" when it began, remember: the Alliance was a few hundred guys camping out in a temple until the First Death Star was destroyed, it was only after their major victory that the Bothans, Mon Calamari, and other major planets started defecting to them en masse. So instead of Hitler's coming into power through mass appeal, the dawn of the rebellion was closer to the Turner Diaries.

>>23626

>There were critiques out from a number of people, but they actually had reasons and the hateboner wasn't as mindbogglingly retarded as it is now.

Agreed.

>but some of it was still kept alive via media that wouldn't shut up

I was once "treated" to some awful Yutuber doing what he thought was a humorous take down of all the films, and his videos went on and on.

Death of a thousands cuts. I wasn't allowed to just admit they weren't perfect and I would have done a little of this or that, here or there.

…But this is what people online do now. Bitch and moan. for the "lulz" or whatever it is now.

>>23750

>Which is one of the problems with this idea, because the cultural and materiel changes are a little too vast to have taken place across an entire galaxy in ~19 years.

With the sheer number of imperial forces I don’t think it would be hard to change formerly Repunlic space to a more militarist society, especially since the clone wars had been raging beforehand and presumably many worlds were being switched over to some sort of war economy. Though maybe I am mistaking what you meant by cultural changes

>That's too short a time for everyone to forget about the Jedi, for one–Jedi were alive and well for the first 10 years of Han Solo's life per the Legends timeline, and even as a street urchin, he grew up on a major Core world and would have heard stories of them all the time

Well the Jedi were a few thousand in a galaxy of hundreds of trillions if not quadrillions. Many people had never heard of the Jedi or didn’t believe they were real, in “Medstar: battle surgeons” (been a real long time since I read that) the main character meets Barriss Offee and doesn’t believe in the force even though he had gone through med school in Coruscant. Most Star Wars media is from the jedi’s perspective but I’ve always got the feeling that the majority of even just the human population had never heard of or believed in Jedi.

>If the Empire was a 2D cartoon villain that was objectively evil and everyone universally hated, that might make sense. But remember, the new order was declared to the sound of thunderous applause.

There would still be rebellious groups, that would be true of any government/large ideology shift. Where I was coming from was at the start of a major takeover/change is when most people would be against it, not because the Empire is evil but because these people don’t agree with its methods/ideology. The longer the empire exists the more people from that initial apprehensive group will see the end justifies the means and accept Imperial rule. Some bleeding hearts might be supposed to imperial methods but the empire had censorship on much of its military campaigns. The difference between 17 years and 40 years is after 40 years something near half the population has been born or raised in the empire and that is the norm, after 17 years the majority of people remember the republic and might still sympathize. If we go back to the Nazi analogy: Germany 10 years after WWII still had many Nazi sympathizers while if you look at Germany in the 70’s National Socialists were almost only older people and a small group regardless. Though I suppose you’re not wrong as the ottomans held lots of territory for a long time and it was only really once they began to weaken that lots of groups rose against Ottoman occupation which in the case of the Balkans was after hundreds of years.

>>23861

>Many people had never heard of the Jedi or didn’t believe they were real,

I haven't read the book you're speaking of, so I can't comment for sure. But I was under the impression that, while few people had seen a Jedi in the flesh, almost everyone had at least heard of them.

>he difference between 17 years and 40 years is after 40 years something near half the population has been born or raised in the empire and that is the norm, after 17 years the majority of people remember the republic and might still sympathize.

To be fair, that argument can go either way–for instance, you could claim that the more living people there are who remember the Republic, the more will remember how corrupt and dysfunctional it was, and would be willing to rationalize away the faults of the Empire because of that. Whereas if most people don't remember the Republic, or only remember it dimly, it's easier for them to romanticize the past and fight for the idea in their head rather than what the Republic actually was. You see this with illegal immigrants in the US, for instance–second generation immigrants tend to be far more left-wing than first generationers, because some of the first generation realizes that Mexico was something of a shithole and they left for good reason, whereas the second generation has never been to the homeland and is free to conjure up wild fantasies of how noble and grand the country and its people are.

>>23863

>But I was under the impression that, while few people had seen a Jedi in the flesh, almost everyone had at least heard of them.

Star Wars tends to focus on the Wars and few books I’ve read really flush out the life of average people very much. I could be wrong and just pulling this out of my ass because one character in one book doesn’t set the standard but I always thought that the majority of people not believing in Jedi or at least not believing that Jedi actually had magic powers just made more sense from the average person’s perspective and that would grow the further out from the core worlds. But again that could just be my personal view, it’s been years since I’ve really been into Star Wars and regularly read the guides and wiki pages.

>To be fair, that argument can go either way

Fair enough, I suppose one nation annexing a piece of land is much different from a nation changing its government, which I was going off of the former.

Look at it this way, the empire was partly based on nazi Germany, and it took the nazis a very short amount of time to change Germany from a democracy into a fascist state. Of course, the Weimar Republic had different problems than the Galactic Republic, but it's not too dissimilar, and it's at least some historic precedence that it can happen in the real world.

As for the Jedi, the other anon already said that most people in the galaxy had never actually seen a Jedi. Kotor 2 also touched on this, and it's not unlikely that most people either didn't know about, believe in, or care for the force, simply because it just wasn't a factor in their lives.

>>23863

It's a big galaxy. Does everyone in the modern world know who the Jesuits are? I bet you do, but go and ask a bunch of random Americans on the streets what a Jesuit is, and they'll have no idea. It's not that weird that a religious order based on Coruscant isn't known to everyone in the galaxy.

>>23882

>the empire was partly based on nazi Germany

Not really. The similarities are entirely superficial and it's the Rebels who get the cinematography ripped straight from Triumph of the Will, with Luke being the stand in for Adolf during the celebration scene.

>>23900

Of course the Empire was inspired by a number of sources, but Nazi Germany definitely was one of them, that's apparent from the uniform design alone, see >>23337

>>23909

Yeah, that's why I said on a superficial level. Retards who look at the costumes and then go, "Hurr, Empire be natzees!" Is how we got The Farce Awakens. Lucas has said numerous times that neither the Empire nor the Rebellion is based on any specific country or time in history. Hell, in Return of the Jedi his inspiration for the Ewoks were the Vietcong which makes the Empire the United States of America, and in the Prequels there's tons of parallels to the Iraq war. The Empire has almost nothing in common with Nazi Germany, aside from the costumes and the name stormtroopers.

>>23898

Jesuits are one of hundreds of different evangelists in the world though. The Jedi are not only the only major religious order that we've seen in the galaxy (from an admittedly slanted perspective), they had official sponsorship of the ruling body, the Republic. They were also generals in the Clone Wars on top of that, with Anakin in particular being a major war hero that had his face projected on all the major Holonet news sites. So I'd say it's less like not knowing what a Jesuit is and more like not knowing what a Catholic missionary is.

>>23914

>The Jedi are not only the only major religious order that we've seen in the galaxy

Key part of that is "that we've seen" by thinking about the galaxy in simplistic terms of what we as the audience have seen, we end up with trash like Finn knowing who Han Solo is because the audience knows who he is. There are certainly other religious orders in Star Wars, we just haven't seen them in the main six films, it is merely a lack of imagination that would lead one to believe that only the Jedi and the Sith are the two religious factions. For example in Star Wars Bounty Hunter there's that cult called the Bando Gora.

I'd imagine lots of people don't watch the Holonet news sites the same way lots of people ignore the news in real life. You and I are obviously people who are hooked into the internet so we probably know more random trivia about reality than your average person who only uses the internet for talking to their friends and playing games.

>>23916

>it is merely a lack of imagination that would lead one to believe that only the Jedi and the Sith are the two religious factions.

I get the point you're trying to make, and it's not without validity. But I wasn't talking about just the films, but all the EU material I know of as well. And other religions do appear, but I can't think of one that goes farther than a single species or culture (Ithorian nature-worship, the Mando religion that's sometimes mentioned), and the vast majority aren't shown to exist outside a single planet. And there's still that sticking point of "sponsored by the ruling government." The Jedi are clearly one of the dominant faiths even if not the only one. And even people who ignore the news entirely, to use your example, still know the big things. They're aware of who the President is and what party he's a member of, they know we've got troops in the sandbox, they know the US is a major superpower, they know China and Russia are the other two, and so on. That's why I used "Catholic" as the analogy for Jedi as well–even though it's one of hundreds of religions, just about everyone knows that Catholics exist, and most know they're really fond of this guy called Jesus and a man with a funny hat lives in Rome. I'd say the Jedi are similar in recognizability.

>>23917

>but I can't think of one that goes farther than a single species or culture (Ithorian nature-worship, the Mando religion that's sometimes mentioned)

Hmm, this is something that should be fixed. Is anyone on this board still continuing the real Expanded Universe with fan-fiction?

>>23914

Well just because you someone promoted as being a Jedi general doesn’t mean you believe in the force or the Jedi. For all most people know Anakin could have been a guy with a blaster and lead his troops from the rear of the Jedi are just people who train with melee weapons, the average alien/human would have no idea you need the force to be able to effectively wield a lightsaber in the vast majority of cases (fuck off Disney Wars and Darth Maul Lockdown). Again this stuff has never really been covered very much I’ve only seen it in the Medstar book, and a bit of KoTOR II as well as either a guide or wiki page from years ago. I suppose you can take either side since anything about the mundane is ignored in everything I’ve read. Though I do recall there being several species who have a natural use of certain force techniques, I’ll look through my essential guide to species tomorrow and see if I can find an example.

>>23918

Well Han says “I’ll see you in hell.” in ESB. I think it’s more likely just something that slipped by in the script that no one though about because it’s such a common phrase for us, but it does imply a larger belief in at least a hell. I’m sure there’s a wookiepedia part about it but it’ll probably be of little substance.

>>23945

There is. Just as there cultural and political parallels from the real world in SW the same is true for beliefs. Mon Mothma was basically a space catholic for one. As for Hell, it was the name Corellians used to refer to The Void (also known as Chaos), a realm of the Force afterlife where the Dark Side flourished and where Sith Lord spirits, demonic beings and "The Entity" reigned supreme. It appeared rarely in media, but its basically how they managed to permanently banish Palpatine's spirit in Dark Empire. Its why free roaming Sith Ghosts aren't a thing. They are permanently bound to the wellspring of the Dark Side that is Chaos/Hell/The Void born within the Force because of the corrupting desires of living beings.

Anyway, there are tons of religious factions in SW both good and bad, however the Jedis' many temples pretty much hog the spotlight from them due to having temples on almost every Core World. So they're group is the only galaxy-spanning one. Most planets in the Core Worlds have only a casual non-fundamentalist reverence for the Force in the same way most westerners in the real world have with their respective religions. Outside of that, most worlds tend to have their own religions, philosophies or cults. The most notable of all, and one that was even bigger than the Jedi in the past long ago in the first days of the Republic 11,000 years ago, was the faith of the Pius Dea, a humanocentrist faith that dates back to the first ancestral worlds of humanity, back when Coruscant was known as Notron. It was basically like 40K's human empire in that the faith taught humanity was the pinnacle of life in the galaxy, as such all alien life was seen as heretical and inferior deviations of human ancestry and a disgrace to the deity of the Pius Dea (as many humanoid species shared the same ancestry thanks to the Celestials and the Rakata) and the order thus carried out crusades against aliens, specifically those of the Outer Rim which they saw as chaotic and evil and in need of purging. Despite their successful galactic conquest, the Pius Dea Crusaders were eventually overthrown by their long time adversaries, the Jedi Order which then took their place as the official religious order of the Galactic Republic from then on. The Jedi had always been in conflict with the Pius Dea who were more technologically advanced, but in the end the Jedi won out due to help from the rebels of the Republic Navy (and the organization responsible for managing intergalactic travel) who joined their side and gave them the advantage they needed. The Jedi Order's grand master also became the first jedi supreme chancellor.

>>23709

<"butthurt ot purist manchildren"

>another random strawman

I actually like the prequels and a lot of EU from around that time, doesn't mean Episode 1 wasn't a massively disappointing movie or that the whole PT isn't marred in serious problems. Maybe grow the fuck up and stop trying to label everyone who doesn't worship the PT.

Are we forgetting that the alien species all have their religions and superstitions? The Trandoshans come to mind with their entire society being based on gaining points for a "Scorcekeeper" goddess that grants them honor and solace in the after life. Religion doesn't have to be some galaxy spanning megachurch-tier nonsense.

>>23969

It isn't. I was just giving examples to what matches with that and I even state that each world and species has its own religious culture and beliefs. Regardless, the only multi-planetary faiths were the ones I mentioned with the Pius Dea once being the biggest. However the Scorekeeper religion was popular with not just Trandoshans, but hunters in general (or species with a bloodlust) and the Bando Gora was probably the largest known underworld cult.

>>23970

That makes sense now. On the same note, would the Revanites be a large religious organization? It seemed to spread in popularity among both the Imperial and Republic military ranks.

>>23971

It was, and the Sith Empire was very against it due to its belief in balance and honoring Revan, with many of the cultural elite on Dromund Kaas and even several sith joining up with it. They would've had a long enduring presence if not for SWTOR bringing back Revan to take control of the order only to be defeated and thus cause the order's disbandment.

>>23733

>>23744

well i suppose when you frame it that way it is a good thing

>>23914

and yet han had apparently never heard of or believed in the force, so that proves your theory wrong

>>23916

>I'd imagine lots of people don't watch the Holonet news sites the same way lots of people ignore the news in real life. You and I are obviously people who are hooked into the internet so we probably know more random trivia about reality than your average person who only uses the internet for talking to their friends and playing games.

this

>>23967

i never claimed the PT to be perfect, perfection doesn't exist. by butthurt manchildren i mean the retards who cried that george had destroyed their childhoods, despite the OT still being intact until disney wars made it all worthless.

>>23977

>and yet han had apparently never heard of or believed in the force, so that proves your theory wrong

We're getting into circular argument territory here. I made the same point in >>2375, the fact that Han doesn't believe in the Force/Jedi makes the ~19 year gap between RotS and ANH difficult to reconcile, as he grew up on a major Core world where almost everyone should have at least heard of Jedi.

>>23982

Wrong post, this one: >>23750

>>23630

Also there were far too much and unnecessary over the top cgi sequences in the PT for example obi-wan riding on the back of that screaming lizard chasing General Grievous who flees the scene on some short of rolling wheel monstrosity……It would have been better with models and more traditional transports or a foot chase for that matter.

>>24134

>I would have really liked it if George at least threw in a few EU republic ships into the PT

Agree wholeheartedly. Although Coruscant's name came from the PT, so there's that.

>>24134

>Haden Christenson was not the right choice for a young Anakin/Vader. Anakin/Vader should have been a man not a wannabe teen drama star or kylo ren 1.0. Anakin should have been a more of a stoic warrior type (stoic at least on the outside) always seeking strength and being reckless in the pursuit of it to save himself and those close to him.

This is just your opinion, there's no reason should have been that way aside from the fact that that's what you wanted. Not a legit criticism.

>>24173

It's true that it would be better, though. And it would match up better with Obi-Wan's description of Anakin in ANH.

>>24174

Obiwan was lying in A New Hope, that's the whole point. He lied to Luke about everything, or do you forget the interaction Luke has with him in Empire? It's like you people haven't even watched the movies. Obi Wan was not a wise wizard, he wasn't a good Jedi, he was a fuck up and it was largely his fault that Anakin turned to the darkside. The Prequels clarified that by showing that Qui Gon was the master Anakin needed, and Obi Wan entirely failed to live up to that standard.

It's fine if you don't like the story that George was telling, but George knew what he was doing.

>>24176

>Obiwan was lying in A New Hope

no, he wasn't. in a poetic sense, Anakin's fall to the dark side killed off 'Anakin Skywalker' so that 'Darth Vader' could be born. so when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father, he was telling the truth, albeit in a very misleading and obfuscating way.

and your claim that Obi-Wan was a fuckup is contradicted by his sacrifice, and his post-mortem guidance of Luke.

I have some pretty serious problems with the films that I think get overlooked or ignored a lot by the more hardcore fans of the series. I love the universe, but the prequels suffer considerably from several of the creative decisions and filmmaking choices that George and the team chose to go with. I think many fans are so sick of the exaggeration of the criticism of the prequels that theu defrnd them pretty religiously without admitting that they're far from perfect. Yes, the OT was far from perfect, too, but I think we can agree that as far as cinema goes, ANH and ESB are better made films when it comes to their scripts, direction, and editing. With RotJ, there's a bit more of an argument to be made.

>Phantom Menace

Eh. The pacing is really all over the place. It feels very in common to the way ANH was structured before its heavy edits. There are some minor continuity errors, but it doesn't ruin the film. The biggest flaws are the unfocused plot, the generally dry characters, and the soap opera-esque direction. It adds an odd melodramatic feeling to most scenes. This isn't to say that this wasn't done at points in the OT, however it is more apparent here and carries over to the next two films. The podrace, though it probably doesn't need to take up as much time as it does, is still a fun, exciting sequence. John Williams comes in swinging as always and the practical effects and CGI are groundbreaking for its time. Horrible movie? No, but it's far from what anyone would call a good start.

>Attack of the Clones

I'll be honest, I may be biased here. I don't like AotC. I like a few of the scenes.(Deathsticks, Dooku and Obi-Wan, the midnight chase through Coruscant) Regardless, I think this movie is a rough watch. No offense to those who like it, but I've felt for a long time that the main issues with TPM feel even more overwhelming here. When the plot slows to a crawl, it becomes nearly unwatchable for me. Padme and Anakin have little onscreen chemistry in the scenes they share and I'd argue their best moment in the film is that silent shot of their silhouettes entering the colosseum. There are good ideas, but it really feels like it crumbles under its own ambition at times. It's built to be a mystery of sorts, but it obviously doesn't have much it can reveal, so it switches to a rescue mission after having Obi-Wan's investigation intercut with the aforementioned love story. And somehow it manages to feel both slow for most of the film, yet rushed at the end. It has what I would consider the weakest climax of the saga and really ends in an unsatisfying way. I understand that my opinion isn't objective truth, but this movie just isn't my cup of tea.

>Revenge of the Sith

Now, this is the film that unfairly gets called incredibly awful for a lot of stupid reasons. That's not to say this movie is flawless or even great. I think it's a good movie, weighed down by some pf George's methods and choiced, whilst people act like it's a horrid film because it's a Star Wars prequel. RotS has always felt the most developed out of the PT in my opinion. The conflict is well set-up, it pays off a lot of the portrayal of the Jedi in the first two, and it introduces Vader and Palpatine in a powerful way. The actions scenes are well choreographed for the most part, but the acting still feels pretty stiff from most of the cast. Some of the scenes feel really unnecessary and a good deal of the movie is pushed forward by filler.(The opening sequence, Obi-Wan and Grevious, a few other small scenes.) This isn't to say these aren't well done or meaningless, but the movie really hits its stride right as its ending, and it trips up a little there with the "Do not want" scene. It's a good, flawed film that's better than the sum of its parts. I think the prequels get way too much shit from people afraid to look at the trilogy objectively and say something real, but it seems that there's been a huge reaction to imply that they're way better than they likely are.

But hey, that's just my dipshit opinion.

>>23617

All prequels are bad. I don't mean specifically just the Star Wars ones but just prequels in general. The question of how bad varies depending on how terribly they mess up existing continuity, lore, thematic aspects, etc.

I'm talking about immediate and direct prequels here mind you.

>>24180

Yes this.

Also prequels tend to be made in a way that requires a new viewer to watch the original first rather than start with the prequel series since the "prequels" are really a soft sequel in the sense that they spoil plot points,twists, reveals, etc. of the original films. For example in the SW PT showing Anakin become Vader rather than imply he was killed by him ruins the ESB reveal, making Gollum bio-luminescent in the Hobbit rather than covered in shadow ruins his reveal in the two towers…

>>24181

For the Hobbit (didn’t like it myself I felt they left out a lot of the parts I was excited to see to add stuff that wasn’t in the book, and overall I wasn’t very impressed) I don’t think they really could have done the whole riddle scene if Gollum was just a faint outline in shadow.

>>24187

Now the Hobbit is a BAD prequel trilogy. Never even watched the third one after how shit DoS was.

>>24190

I saw the third one like three months after it came out in theatres and some dumbass and his girlfriend came like 45 minutes into the movie and sat 3 seats away from me despite there being about 6 other people in the theatre. Then his dumb cunt girlfriend asked him questions the entire time, at normal speaking level, like “is that Gandolf? Are those dwarfs? [sic] Which one is Frodo?” So after 20 minutes of that I had to move fucking seats to the opposite side of the theatre. But I remember it being shit anyways.

>>24193

>If anyone wants to see it

Just read the book for it, it's supremely comfy and perfectly paced, and not as difficult a read as the War of the Ring books.

>>24194

Fug bud böögs aer too hard to reed :DDD no thinging reguired blease :D

>>23724

>It's a shame that people like RLM sorta took away any credibility constructive criticism had for the prequels, especially when they turned around and praised the Mouse even though they did the exact shit if not worse.

That's what pissed me off the most. I still can't believe that Jay thought that Daisy Ridley was charismatic in TFA.

>>24263

> Jay thought that Daisy Ridley was charismatic in TFA.

That is the thing he did not at all looked convinced of that statement when he made it. I think he said that just to virtual signal about how mentally retarded/ leftist/male feminist he is & to piss off "nazis" as he sees them.

>>24158

>Coruscant's name came from the PT

coruscant's name came from tim zahn's thrawn books

>>24178

>a huge reaction to imply that they're way better than they likely are.

it's not this, so much as it's people realizing these films have more depth to them than previously given credit, and in comparison to the disney flicks. otherwise, i enjoyed reading your mostly objective take on the prequels.

>>24180

this, making prequels more often than not will always clash with its previous entries, unless care is taken

>>24190

also this, those movies would have been better off in GDT's hands and just missed the tone of the book altogether

>>24263

>>24264

when disney throws you a few bucks to promote their film, you have to take a bit of the shit sandwich at some point

>>24787

That's a fair point. There is definitely depth in all three that was overlooked when the hype for the films was practically bursting and people were more focused on being disappointed than they were taking the films how they were. They at least have a vision behind them, which is more than I can say about the Mouse films.(Well, that might be a little incorrect concerning TLJ. It has a vision, it's just a poorly thought out, contradictory, badly executed, incredibly messy vision. But it's there. Whoop dee fucking doo.)

>CGI

The problem with it was that it fucked with the actors interpretation. Their dialogue and expressions became wooden because they were talking alone to a green wall or photo nailed on it. An example? When Qui-Gon is talking to Watto, in many scenes you can see clearly that Liam Neeson is looking/talking to the air not a person in front of him.

>Anakin

That's because he became a "whiny teenager" when the image that everyone had of him was one of a seasoned war hero. An adult. Seriously, if Anakin was depicted from the start as an adult, a pilot turned jedi and war hero and then his fall from grace, much would be avoided. Hayden was also underused by the shitty, faster, more intense direction of Lucas and his wooden dialogues.

>>24787

>when disney throws you a few bucks to promote their film

All the shills were out against Venom , people seemed to like it despite what the shill critics said about it however I notice it odd that Red Letter Media skipped Venom altogether despite it doing really well in theater they refused to review it. Putting on the old tin hat I think they want to keep whatever credibility ( very little) they have left and don't want to piss of disney so they pretend the film never happened.

>>24797

>CGI

This

>Anakin

Completely agreed

The only people who say it are normalfags and Reddit. I'm not saying any criticism of the prequels comes from these people, but a lot of the blind hatred and shitting on it, calling it the worst movies ever made, does come from these people. Normalfags act stunned if you tell them you didn't think the prequels were dogshit. I watched them as a kid since I'm a bit younger so it might be partially nostalgia but, looking back today, still think they're decent and better than any of the stuff Disney has shit out

>>24811

This. The prequels have many a flaw worth criticizing, but the problem is people today, especially after RLM, have a seething hatred for it that borders on irrational. Its fine to criticize, its another just to be so hateful of something that you want to erase all traces of it. Simpsons has also been a huge contributor to the Star Wars hate train for years. Even before TFA came out, they were shilling it hard and devoted entire episodes to mocking the prequels. Hell I hate South Park, but at least they had the decency to call out TFA for being shit that just relied on blind nostalgia.

>>24811

>still think they're decent and better than any of the stuff Disney has shit out

Anon that goes without saying the bar to beat the disney movies is very very low & the fact that disney made such garbage only highlights how much better the PT are by comparison.

>>24812

>RLM, have a seething hatred for it

Idk about when he made the plinkett but now they are definitely being paid for their opinion on the PT. The plinkett TFA review was 90% shitting on the PT and only about 10% about how great TFA was.

>>24814

True enough. But the whole nature of their TFA review felt fake and paid. Whilst their Rogue One review felt more genuine and it showed they were full of bullshit since they hated Rogue One for the same reasons they loved TFA.

>>24829

Anon, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

>>24829

>>>/tv/

>>24835

But you made up terms I have never once heard in my life and strangely declared TLJ to be better than ANH and RotJ.

The more I stare at the word Starkino, the more I feel my brain go numb.

>>24809

>I notice it odd that Red Letter Media skipped Venom altogether despite it doing really well in theater they refused to review it. Putting on the old tin hat I think they want to keep whatever credibility ( very little) they have left and don't want to piss of disney so they pretend the film never happened.

The ultimate shills.

>>24861

>>24809

I saw Venom and I honestly enjoyed it far more than Disney's MCU films. It was weird how much hate it was getting from reviews. As if Disney wanted it to fail. The fact that RLM won't touch seems to suggest they're not as unbiased as they seem, although their TFA and RO reviews proved that well enough.

>>24867

Same.

I really am sick of Disney's obvious online presence and review purchasing. Disney owns the entire entertainment review industry.

>>24876

It's only going to get worse as they continue to buy more and more corporations and acquire more newspapers and cable news channels. Also, they own a ton of YouTubers as well, hell, they used to own PewDiePie.

>>24882

They have a problem because ESPN is bleeding them. They only kept the same revenue because they raised the prices at their parks.

>>24883

Not sports fag but for ESPN to hemorrhage money their sports coverage must be an unwatchable abomination. I guess they took pointers from NBC's embarrassing ,cringe and edited/censored coverage of the Olympics.

>>24887

ESPN is proof of the fact that sports are subsidized. The NFL charges exorbitant rates to broadcast games, which cable companies paid through bundling of channels. When people started cutting cable, there were fewer people to subsidize the gay fanboys who want to worship nigger asses on the gridiron. ESPN is losing subscribers because cable overall is dying the death it deserves to die. Disney is fighting time itself and they are flailing about like dumb kikes who want to keep the stock high short term.

There are legitimate problems. There was way too much CGI (the fucking clones). Anakin and Padme kind of fail as characters, either due to the dialogue or choice of actors. Maul dies without barely saying a line, which is a real shame, because he has such a cool design. The whole Jar Jar issue, which maybe would have ended better had they followed through with original plans for the character, but as is, he does not stand out as a glowing example of a Star Wars character (though people exaggerate his badness. He just ranges from slightly annoying to slightly pointless).

Overall, they are good movies though. Very good movies I would say, in fact. I can't watch them without being thoroughly entertained. The action sequences are great, and I can't stand this meme that they weren't "real" enough. You have maybe some of the best music and visual design in a fantasy film ever. And a lot of the trilogies problems are really no worse than equivalent problems that appear in the OT. You think there was no cheesy dialogue in those films? No slightly crap looking puppets that broke the illusion? No missed opportunities?

I admit the film has problems but I wouldn't say they're horrible horrible movies like most normalfags would say. They're fun but flawed but not bad movies. In fact most of the problems it has I can easily ignore or forgive, the only true problem I have with it is the timing. Judging from the original films and Timothy Zahn's novels, as well as the original source books, it seemed to indicate that the Empire had been ruling the Galaxy for quite a long time, probably 30 or 50 years, with the Jedi being an order or dying Cult of sorts that was actively trying to fight the empire before they were inevitably crushed, with the remaining forces being only a few Jedi and the remnants of the Republic, with Anakin and Obi Wan being one of the last before Anakin was seduced to the dark side by the emperor. Yet the prequels only imply that the Empire has only been in power for 17 years yet there's a strong cultural element of the Empire's influence that feels like they've been in rule for far longer and the fact that Han Solo a man in his late 30s doesn't think much of the Jedis existence seems odd since the Jedi were a common element no more than a decade ago where they were likely all over the holonet news and some one of his age sjould at least know about their feats yet everyone's forgotten this and a mere 17 years of censorship shoulnt be enough to erase all these memories from older people's minds for causing such a drastic cultural shift. But I digress.

I'm just going to go through a list of things people have decided are bad over the years, and question why.

The Gungans - I like them. They're a warrior culture with cool looking technology. What's the problem?

Battle Droids - I get that people feel some of the edge is taken away if robots are dying in the place or real people, but then I really like robots. Robots are cool.

"that was just put there to sell toys" - Which generally means it's something cool. What's the problem? Does children having fun actively ruin your enjoyment? All of those characters who weren't deigned to sell toys in the Disney movies sure are an improvement, right?

"People shouldn't be flipping around like that in the fight scenes" - Why? It looks cool.

"Yoda shouldn't be fighting with a lightsaber" - Why?

"the visual design is different to the OT" - It was supposed to be, to contrast the difference in life under the Republic to life under the Empire, and it looks great.

"huurrr deathsticks, younglings" - So? Fantasy worlds can't have made up terminology now?

Midichlorians - Actually what is the problem?

"A 50's diner in space lol" - A fucking cowboy in space lol

>>24901

>The Gungans - I like them. They're a warrior culture with cool looking technology. What's the problem?

Thank you. I like the mainline Gungans a lot, they remind me of oldschool adventure scifi's take on alien cultures, where they're all just really out-there.

>>24901

>Midichlorians - Actually what is the problem?

People seem to misinterpret it as midichlorians being the literal force itself, yet Qui Gon clearly says that they're just telling Anakin the will of the Force. They're basically there to explain why everyone can't be a force user regardless of how much they train, learn or practice. At best gaining a clairvoyance/sixth sense of sort.

>>24901

People think those things are bad because they've been told to think they're bad. Gungans are definitely unique and cool, remind me of Franco-Belgium scifi comics.

I like the Battle Droids because they have a sense of humor about things. They know their lot in life and they are kind of cheery considering what they have to do.

>>24901

>The Gungans: What's the problem?

I think most of that is because of Jar-Jar being the representative of their species. Plus 'muh racism'. They had it pretty good under the Naboo apartheid, though.

>Battle Droids

To be fair, I think the main problem was that many people expected the clones to be the bad guys. It makes sense, however, for the battle droids to exist, because they're cheap and easily mass-produced.

>"that was just put there to sell toys"

That's basically the whole of Star Wars in a nutshell lmao.

>"People shouldn't be flipping around like that in the fight scenes"

It's their preconceived ideas of saber fighting from the OT, where you had an arthritic old fart, a disabled cyborg, and an inexperienced young man fighting. And also CGI and wires. That helps.

>"Yoda shouldn't be fighting with a lightsaber"

Preconceived notions, as well.

>"the visual design is different to the OT"

This is the one thing I do have a major problem with. Now, it does make sense to have certain planets be beautiful and shit, but all the sleeker visuals were jarring, compared to the retro-futuristic, worn-out settings of the prequels. Of course, we're also dealing more with the higher classes of society, so it makes sense there.

>huurrr deathsticks, younglings"

Opinions on tobacco aside, that was one of the best scenes in Attack of the Clones.

>Midichlorians

I think people mistook what was essentially space magic-eating mitochondria, which serves as a measure of an individual's force ability, for the cause of the Force itself.

>"A 50's diner in space lol"

Yeah, there's no argument whatsoever there. It really makes no sense to argue over Dex's Diner.

>>24895

>aul dies without barely saying a line, which is a real shame, because he has such a cool design.

To be fair, if he talked too much he would have stopped being cool and would have come off as edgy and tryhard.

>>24929

>>24901

This. Most of the hate I see for Jar Jar and Gungans isn't because they're silly (that slightly used to be the case though). Now no one will shut up about them for being too racist. They've only slightly toned it down after Jar Jar's actor said he wanted to commit suicide at one point.

>>24935

>>Anakin and Padme.

Whether she was appropriately used I'm not really debating but her purpose as I understand George wanted, was using her like a Cicero to Marc Anthony or Octavian who'd be Palpatine. The Jedi would be the coalition which built around Brutus to fight the dictators but lose to them. The killing of Caesar would be the start of Clone Wars which functionally ends the Republic.

>>24940

I mostly think Natalie Portman was shit.

>>24935

>the Republic and the Empire are not very far removed from each other would mean the looks of both should coincide

I don't see it. The Empire's brutalist design aesthetic was probably a conscious choice by the Emperor, similar to what actual fascist and communist regimes would do. Rebels and outlaws use whatever outdated broken junk they can get their hands on.We don't really see the state of planets like Naboo or Coruscant, unless you count their appearence in the Special Editions, where they actually haven't changed a whole lot. You also forget that the PT could look very grimy, when it made sense. The slums of Tatooine look pretty consistant from the PT to the OT. Nothing changes out there.

I would also argue again that it's a fantasy series, and you can bend reality a little, if it helps to set a mood or hammer in a point.

Republic - Grand, sentimental, old and incompetent

Empire - Powerful, unfeeling, efficient

>>24984

The looks do coincide. There is a clear evolution from Republican aesthetics to Imperial ones.

>>24985

Also that. Things get harsher and more utilitarian during the clone wars. You go from shiny chrome ornamental ships, to things that look one step away from X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

>>24986

Aren't the clone vessels called Venator class Star Destroyers? Not much wiggle room there when the only difference between an Imperial Victory and a Republic Venator is the bridge structure.