/sw/ - Star Wars

>>24176

>Obiwan was lying in A New Hope

no, he wasn't. in a poetic sense, Anakin's fall to the dark side killed off 'Anakin Skywalker' so that 'Darth Vader' could be born. so when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Darth Vader killed his father, he was telling the truth, albeit in a very misleading and obfuscating way.

and your claim that Obi-Wan was a fuckup is contradicted by his sacrifice, and his post-mortem guidance of Luke.

I have some pretty serious problems with the films that I think get overlooked or ignored a lot by the more hardcore fans of the series. I love the universe, but the prequels suffer considerably from several of the creative decisions and filmmaking choices that George and the team chose to go with. I think many fans are so sick of the exaggeration of the criticism of the prequels that theu defrnd them pretty religiously without admitting that they're far from perfect. Yes, the OT was far from perfect, too, but I think we can agree that as far as cinema goes, ANH and ESB are better made films when it comes to their scripts, direction, and editing. With RotJ, there's a bit more of an argument to be made.

>Phantom Menace

Eh. The pacing is really all over the place. It feels very in common to the way ANH was structured before its heavy edits. There are some minor continuity errors, but it doesn't ruin the film. The biggest flaws are the unfocused plot, the generally dry characters, and the soap opera-esque direction. It adds an odd melodramatic feeling to most scenes. This isn't to say that this wasn't done at points in the OT, however it is more apparent here and carries over to the next two films. The podrace, though it probably doesn't need to take up as much time as it does, is still a fun, exciting sequence. John Williams comes in swinging as always and the practical effects and CGI are groundbreaking for its time. Horrible movie? No, but it's far from what anyone would call a good start.

>Attack of the Clones

I'll be honest, I may be biased here. I don't like AotC. I like a few of the scenes.(Deathsticks, Dooku and Obi-Wan, the midnight chase through Coruscant) Regardless, I think this movie is a rough watch. No offense to those who like it, but I've felt for a long time that the main issues with TPM feel even more overwhelming here. When the plot slows to a crawl, it becomes nearly unwatchable for me. Padme and Anakin have little onscreen chemistry in the scenes they share and I'd argue their best moment in the film is that silent shot of their silhouettes entering the colosseum. There are good ideas, but it really feels like it crumbles under its own ambition at times. It's built to be a mystery of sorts, but it obviously doesn't have much it can reveal, so it switches to a rescue mission after having Obi-Wan's investigation intercut with the aforementioned love story. And somehow it manages to feel both slow for most of the film, yet rushed at the end. It has what I would consider the weakest climax of the saga and really ends in an unsatisfying way. I understand that my opinion isn't objective truth, but this movie just isn't my cup of tea.

>Revenge of the Sith

Now, this is the film that unfairly gets called incredibly awful for a lot of stupid reasons. That's not to say this movie is flawless or even great. I think it's a good movie, weighed down by some pf George's methods and choiced, whilst people act like it's a horrid film because it's a Star Wars prequel. RotS has always felt the most developed out of the PT in my opinion. The conflict is well set-up, it pays off a lot of the portrayal of the Jedi in the first two, and it introduces Vader and Palpatine in a powerful way. The actions scenes are well choreographed for the most part, but the acting still feels pretty stiff from most of the cast. Some of the scenes feel really unnecessary and a good deal of the movie is pushed forward by filler.(The opening sequence, Obi-Wan and Grevious, a few other small scenes.) This isn't to say these aren't well done or meaningless, but the movie really hits its stride right as its ending, and it trips up a little there with the "Do not want" scene. It's a good, flawed film that's better than the sum of its parts. I think the prequels get way too much shit from people afraid to look at the trilogy objectively and say something real, but it seems that there's been a huge reaction to imply that they're way better than they likely are.

But hey, that's just my dipshit opinion.

>>23617

All prequels are bad. I don't mean specifically just the Star Wars ones but just prequels in general. The question of how bad varies depending on how terribly they mess up existing continuity, lore, thematic aspects, etc.

I'm talking about immediate and direct prequels here mind you.

>>24180

Yes this.

Also prequels tend to be made in a way that requires a new viewer to watch the original first rather than start with the prequel series since the "prequels" are really a soft sequel in the sense that they spoil plot points,twists, reveals, etc. of the original films. For example in the SW PT showing Anakin become Vader rather than imply he was killed by him ruins the ESB reveal, making Gollum bio-luminescent in the Hobbit rather than covered in shadow ruins his reveal in the two towers…

>>24181

For the Hobbit (didn’t like it myself I felt they left out a lot of the parts I was excited to see to add stuff that wasn’t in the book, and overall I wasn’t very impressed) I don’t think they really could have done the whole riddle scene if Gollum was just a faint outline in shadow.

>>24187

Now the Hobbit is a BAD prequel trilogy. Never even watched the third one after how shit DoS was.

>>24190

I saw the third one like three months after it came out in theatres and some dumbass and his girlfriend came like 45 minutes into the movie and sat 3 seats away from me despite there being about 6 other people in the theatre. Then his dumb cunt girlfriend asked him questions the entire time, at normal speaking level, like “is that Gandolf? Are those dwarfs? [sic] Which one is Frodo?” So after 20 minutes of that I had to move fucking seats to the opposite side of the theatre. But I remember it being shit anyways.

>>24193

>If anyone wants to see it

Just read the book for it, it's supremely comfy and perfectly paced, and not as difficult a read as the War of the Ring books.

>>24194

Fug bud böögs aer too hard to reed :DDD no thinging reguired blease :D

>>23724

>It's a shame that people like RLM sorta took away any credibility constructive criticism had for the prequels, especially when they turned around and praised the Mouse even though they did the exact shit if not worse.

That's what pissed me off the most. I still can't believe that Jay thought that Daisy Ridley was charismatic in TFA.

>>24263

> Jay thought that Daisy Ridley was charismatic in TFA.

That is the thing he did not at all looked convinced of that statement when he made it. I think he said that just to virtual signal about how mentally retarded/ leftist/male feminist he is & to piss off "nazis" as he sees them.

>>24158

>Coruscant's name came from the PT

coruscant's name came from tim zahn's thrawn books

>>24178

>a huge reaction to imply that they're way better than they likely are.

it's not this, so much as it's people realizing these films have more depth to them than previously given credit, and in comparison to the disney flicks. otherwise, i enjoyed reading your mostly objective take on the prequels.

>>24180

this, making prequels more often than not will always clash with its previous entries, unless care is taken

>>24190

also this, those movies would have been better off in GDT's hands and just missed the tone of the book altogether

>>24263

>>24264

when disney throws you a few bucks to promote their film, you have to take a bit of the shit sandwich at some point

>>24787

That's a fair point. There is definitely depth in all three that was overlooked when the hype for the films was practically bursting and people were more focused on being disappointed than they were taking the films how they were. They at least have a vision behind them, which is more than I can say about the Mouse films.(Well, that might be a little incorrect concerning TLJ. It has a vision, it's just a poorly thought out, contradictory, badly executed, incredibly messy vision. But it's there. Whoop dee fucking doo.)

>CGI

The problem with it was that it fucked with the actors interpretation. Their dialogue and expressions became wooden because they were talking alone to a green wall or photo nailed on it. An example? When Qui-Gon is talking to Watto, in many scenes you can see clearly that Liam Neeson is looking/talking to the air not a person in front of him.

>Anakin

That's because he became a "whiny teenager" when the image that everyone had of him was one of a seasoned war hero. An adult. Seriously, if Anakin was depicted from the start as an adult, a pilot turned jedi and war hero and then his fall from grace, much would be avoided. Hayden was also underused by the shitty, faster, more intense direction of Lucas and his wooden dialogues.

>>24787

>when disney throws you a few bucks to promote their film

All the shills were out against Venom , people seemed to like it despite what the shill critics said about it however I notice it odd that Red Letter Media skipped Venom altogether despite it doing really well in theater they refused to review it. Putting on the old tin hat I think they want to keep whatever credibility ( very little) they have left and don't want to piss of disney so they pretend the film never happened.

>>24797

>CGI

This

>Anakin

Completely agreed

The only people who say it are normalfags and Reddit. I'm not saying any criticism of the prequels comes from these people, but a lot of the blind hatred and shitting on it, calling it the worst movies ever made, does come from these people. Normalfags act stunned if you tell them you didn't think the prequels were dogshit. I watched them as a kid since I'm a bit younger so it might be partially nostalgia but, looking back today, still think they're decent and better than any of the stuff Disney has shit out

>>24811

This. The prequels have many a flaw worth criticizing, but the problem is people today, especially after RLM, have a seething hatred for it that borders on irrational. Its fine to criticize, its another just to be so hateful of something that you want to erase all traces of it. Simpsons has also been a huge contributor to the Star Wars hate train for years. Even before TFA came out, they were shilling it hard and devoted entire episodes to mocking the prequels. Hell I hate South Park, but at least they had the decency to call out TFA for being shit that just relied on blind nostalgia.

>>24811

>still think they're decent and better than any of the stuff Disney has shit out

Anon that goes without saying the bar to beat the disney movies is very very low & the fact that disney made such garbage only highlights how much better the PT are by comparison.

>>24812

>RLM, have a seething hatred for it

Idk about when he made the plinkett but now they are definitely being paid for their opinion on the PT. The plinkett TFA review was 90% shitting on the PT and only about 10% about how great TFA was.

>>24814

True enough. But the whole nature of their TFA review felt fake and paid. Whilst their Rogue One review felt more genuine and it showed they were full of bullshit since they hated Rogue One for the same reasons they loved TFA.

>>24829

Anon, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

>>24829

>>>/tv/

>>24835

But you made up terms I have never once heard in my life and strangely declared TLJ to be better than ANH and RotJ.

The more I stare at the word Starkino, the more I feel my brain go numb.

>>24809

>I notice it odd that Red Letter Media skipped Venom altogether despite it doing really well in theater they refused to review it. Putting on the old tin hat I think they want to keep whatever credibility ( very little) they have left and don't want to piss of disney so they pretend the film never happened.

The ultimate shills.

>>24861

>>24809

I saw Venom and I honestly enjoyed it far more than Disney's MCU films. It was weird how much hate it was getting from reviews. As if Disney wanted it to fail. The fact that RLM won't touch seems to suggest they're not as unbiased as they seem, although their TFA and RO reviews proved that well enough.

>>24867

Same.

I really am sick of Disney's obvious online presence and review purchasing. Disney owns the entire entertainment review industry.

>>24876

It's only going to get worse as they continue to buy more and more corporations and acquire more newspapers and cable news channels. Also, they own a ton of YouTubers as well, hell, they used to own PewDiePie.

>>24882

They have a problem because ESPN is bleeding them. They only kept the same revenue because they raised the prices at their parks.

>>24883

Not sports fag but for ESPN to hemorrhage money their sports coverage must be an unwatchable abomination. I guess they took pointers from NBC's embarrassing ,cringe and edited/censored coverage of the Olympics.

>>24887

ESPN is proof of the fact that sports are subsidized. The NFL charges exorbitant rates to broadcast games, which cable companies paid through bundling of channels. When people started cutting cable, there were fewer people to subsidize the gay fanboys who want to worship nigger asses on the gridiron. ESPN is losing subscribers because cable overall is dying the death it deserves to die. Disney is fighting time itself and they are flailing about like dumb kikes who want to keep the stock high short term.

There are legitimate problems. There was way too much CGI (the fucking clones). Anakin and Padme kind of fail as characters, either due to the dialogue or choice of actors. Maul dies without barely saying a line, which is a real shame, because he has such a cool design. The whole Jar Jar issue, which maybe would have ended better had they followed through with original plans for the character, but as is, he does not stand out as a glowing example of a Star Wars character (though people exaggerate his badness. He just ranges from slightly annoying to slightly pointless).

Overall, they are good movies though. Very good movies I would say, in fact. I can't watch them without being thoroughly entertained. The action sequences are great, and I can't stand this meme that they weren't "real" enough. You have maybe some of the best music and visual design in a fantasy film ever. And a lot of the trilogies problems are really no worse than equivalent problems that appear in the OT. You think there was no cheesy dialogue in those films? No slightly crap looking puppets that broke the illusion? No missed opportunities?

I admit the film has problems but I wouldn't say they're horrible horrible movies like most normalfags would say. They're fun but flawed but not bad movies. In fact most of the problems it has I can easily ignore or forgive, the only true problem I have with it is the timing. Judging from the original films and Timothy Zahn's novels, as well as the original source books, it seemed to indicate that the Empire had been ruling the Galaxy for quite a long time, probably 30 or 50 years, with the Jedi being an order or dying Cult of sorts that was actively trying to fight the empire before they were inevitably crushed, with the remaining forces being only a few Jedi and the remnants of the Republic, with Anakin and Obi Wan being one of the last before Anakin was seduced to the dark side by the emperor. Yet the prequels only imply that the Empire has only been in power for 17 years yet there's a strong cultural element of the Empire's influence that feels like they've been in rule for far longer and the fact that Han Solo a man in his late 30s doesn't think much of the Jedis existence seems odd since the Jedi were a common element no more than a decade ago where they were likely all over the holonet news and some one of his age sjould at least know about their feats yet everyone's forgotten this and a mere 17 years of censorship shoulnt be enough to erase all these memories from older people's minds for causing such a drastic cultural shift. But I digress.

I'm just going to go through a list of things people have decided are bad over the years, and question why.

The Gungans - I like them. They're a warrior culture with cool looking technology. What's the problem?

Battle Droids - I get that people feel some of the edge is taken away if robots are dying in the place or real people, but then I really like robots. Robots are cool.

"that was just put there to sell toys" - Which generally means it's something cool. What's the problem? Does children having fun actively ruin your enjoyment? All of those characters who weren't deigned to sell toys in the Disney movies sure are an improvement, right?

"People shouldn't be flipping around like that in the fight scenes" - Why? It looks cool.

"Yoda shouldn't be fighting with a lightsaber" - Why?

"the visual design is different to the OT" - It was supposed to be, to contrast the difference in life under the Republic to life under the Empire, and it looks great.

"huurrr deathsticks, younglings" - So? Fantasy worlds can't have made up terminology now?

Midichlorians - Actually what is the problem?

"A 50's diner in space lol" - A fucking cowboy in space lol

>>24901

>The Gungans - I like them. They're a warrior culture with cool looking technology. What's the problem?

Thank you. I like the mainline Gungans a lot, they remind me of oldschool adventure scifi's take on alien cultures, where they're all just really out-there.

>>24901

>Midichlorians - Actually what is the problem?

People seem to misinterpret it as midichlorians being the literal force itself, yet Qui Gon clearly says that they're just telling Anakin the will of the Force. They're basically there to explain why everyone can't be a force user regardless of how much they train, learn or practice. At best gaining a clairvoyance/sixth sense of sort.

>>24901

People think those things are bad because they've been told to think they're bad. Gungans are definitely unique and cool, remind me of Franco-Belgium scifi comics.

I like the Battle Droids because they have a sense of humor about things. They know their lot in life and they are kind of cheery considering what they have to do.

>>24901

>The Gungans: What's the problem?

I think most of that is because of Jar-Jar being the representative of their species. Plus 'muh racism'. They had it pretty good under the Naboo apartheid, though.

>Battle Droids

To be fair, I think the main problem was that many people expected the clones to be the bad guys. It makes sense, however, for the battle droids to exist, because they're cheap and easily mass-produced.

>"that was just put there to sell toys"

That's basically the whole of Star Wars in a nutshell lmao.

>"People shouldn't be flipping around like that in the fight scenes"

It's their preconceived ideas of saber fighting from the OT, where you had an arthritic old fart, a disabled cyborg, and an inexperienced young man fighting. And also CGI and wires. That helps.

>"Yoda shouldn't be fighting with a lightsaber"

Preconceived notions, as well.

>"the visual design is different to the OT"

This is the one thing I do have a major problem with. Now, it does make sense to have certain planets be beautiful and shit, but all the sleeker visuals were jarring, compared to the retro-futuristic, worn-out settings of the prequels. Of course, we're also dealing more with the higher classes of society, so it makes sense there.

>huurrr deathsticks, younglings"

Opinions on tobacco aside, that was one of the best scenes in Attack of the Clones.

>Midichlorians

I think people mistook what was essentially space magic-eating mitochondria, which serves as a measure of an individual's force ability, for the cause of the Force itself.

>"A 50's diner in space lol"

Yeah, there's no argument whatsoever there. It really makes no sense to argue over Dex's Diner.

>>24895

>aul dies without barely saying a line, which is a real shame, because he has such a cool design.

To be fair, if he talked too much he would have stopped being cool and would have come off as edgy and tryhard.

>>24929

>>24901

This. Most of the hate I see for Jar Jar and Gungans isn't because they're silly (that slightly used to be the case though). Now no one will shut up about them for being too racist. They've only slightly toned it down after Jar Jar's actor said he wanted to commit suicide at one point.

>>24935

>>Anakin and Padme.

Whether she was appropriately used I'm not really debating but her purpose as I understand George wanted, was using her like a Cicero to Marc Anthony or Octavian who'd be Palpatine. The Jedi would be the coalition which built around Brutus to fight the dictators but lose to them. The killing of Caesar would be the start of Clone Wars which functionally ends the Republic.

>>24940

I mostly think Natalie Portman was shit.

>>24935

>the Republic and the Empire are not very far removed from each other would mean the looks of both should coincide

I don't see it. The Empire's brutalist design aesthetic was probably a conscious choice by the Emperor, similar to what actual fascist and communist regimes would do. Rebels and outlaws use whatever outdated broken junk they can get their hands on.We don't really see the state of planets like Naboo or Coruscant, unless you count their appearence in the Special Editions, where they actually haven't changed a whole lot. You also forget that the PT could look very grimy, when it made sense. The slums of Tatooine look pretty consistant from the PT to the OT. Nothing changes out there.

I would also argue again that it's a fantasy series, and you can bend reality a little, if it helps to set a mood or hammer in a point.

Republic - Grand, sentimental, old and incompetent

Empire - Powerful, unfeeling, efficient

>>24984

The looks do coincide. There is a clear evolution from Republican aesthetics to Imperial ones.

>>24985

Also that. Things get harsher and more utilitarian during the clone wars. You go from shiny chrome ornamental ships, to things that look one step away from X-Wings and Star Destroyers.

>>24986

Aren't the clone vessels called Venator class Star Destroyers? Not much wiggle room there when the only difference between an Imperial Victory and a Republic Venator is the bridge structure.