No.17399 [View All]
Why does the sequel trilogy suck so much more than the prequel trilogy?
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No.17705
>>17703
This essentially. The PT is a brilliant idea but with very poor execution which is mended by its spinoff material/expanded media. The ST is basically a soulless and uninspired cash-in on the brilliant idea of someone else that does nothing but copy its predecessor while adding nothing new. Sure its visually pretty, but underneath it all, there's nothing and the spinoff material/expanded media only helps to make this new copycat world feel even more dead and lifeless.
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No.17707
>>17705
exactly. and they copy the OT without understanding any of the substance. we get a droid carrying info and a planet destroyer, but without the consistent pacing, imagination, or building of dramatic tension to a climax. we get salt hoth, jedi training, a casino planet in place of cloud city, etc, but it's disjointed and none of it rings true. it's like they can do a shallow imitation while missing the point entirely.
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No.17709
>>17688
>I don't get it, it's not like anyone gave this great performance ever.
I'd say Harrison Ford and Ian McDiarmid were spot-on in the OT. And while Mark Hammil wasn't a classically-trained Shakespeare actor, he did put his heart and soul into playing Luke, and because of that earnestness he arguably pulled it off better than someone with more acting skill might have.
>>17689
>It breaks immersion. And nobody is worse of an actor than man-jaw fish-mouth face.
Webm related.
>>17705
Is the execution really that bad though? There are problems, but they've always been these little, isolated glitches–a wooden line here, a slightly rushed romance subplot there, and a Down syndrome-afflicted alien over here. There's nothing wrong with the execution on any wide-ranging level, it's just these aspects that some people RLM keep harping on about to no end. Honestly, when I have to admit: when I was a young, tasteless pleb with barely any idea of what a "four chan" was I didn't even know what I was supposed to dislike the prequels. I enjoyed watching them and I only realized afterwards that there was this fad of dramatically declaring the prequels "horrible". The only things that really bothered me on my first viewing IIRC was Jar-Jar, and to a lesser degree the idea of clones vs. droids–I felt like I couldn't get involved in a conflict that was legions of mass-produced mooks killing legions of mass-produced mooks. But then I realized a) the clones aren't disposable and devoid of personality, despite the Republic treating them that way, and b) the faceless nature of the war actually helped drive home the narrative that the Clone Wars were in many ways a pointless conflict Yes that's an antecedent agreement issue, I don't care enough to figure out what the correct version is, with neither side being the "good guys", and the whole war just serving to bring Sheev into power.
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No.17714
>>17709
>Is the execution really that bad though?
He said it was "poor" execution, which I agree with, given that I can't watch the PT without getting very peeved at a few things, even if I like it overall.
They never made the Clone War feel like some "faceless conflict," it was fairly lighthearted and bright and colourful pretty much the whole way through from AotC to RotS, which is why the tone shift to Order 66 is so jarring for people. The clones all look like action figures (for obvious reasons, but the full-CGI approach makes it even more severe), and the battle droids were largely slapstick humor in tone from the outset of TPM, not a military force (in feel, not plot). The closest they got to that was the SBD's in Ep II (but they get tossed into the slapstick role as well early in RotS) and the deployment scenes on Naboo (which isn't even part of the Clone War). Your fridge logic of the conflict, while true, does not emotionally strike home in the film itself.
I really do think the poorly implemented slapstick seriously hurt the PT. Without good comedic relief, it's easy to get emotionally bogged down in the middle of the films, which happens for pretty much everyone I know about halfway through AotC and RotS.
I like the films, especially all the creativity that went into them and Sheev's omnipresent background agenda, but they are "poor" on a tonal and pacing level.
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No.17718
>>17707
>copy the OT without understanding any of the substance.
This
They want the OT's iconic scenes (death star blowing up, emperor's throne room, etc) so badly however they do not bother with the storyline/plot leading up to these iconic scenes that they rippoff which removes any impact these scenes might have had in fact it makes it stupid…
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No.17722
>>17691
>Which is the fucking problem in itself. It's supposed to be stilted, it's a fucking space-opera drama.
Yes, but there's a fine line you need to ride, anon. The prequels went too far in a few places.
>The problem is that they based the movies about an outcome we already knew.
That's not really a problem, thanks to the disconnect between TPM and ANH. In TPM we see that everything is fine in the galaxy. The republic has a bit of a problem with bureaucracy and corruption, but you don't see any hints of the system being overthrown and turned into an authoritarian empire. Anakin is another example, in TPM we see him as a good-natured boy, with not a shred of the darkness of a Darth Vader. That mystique should be enough to get the viewer intrigued. Add some good characters like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and you got yourself a promising setup.
>That's the major issue with the prequels making them uninteresting because there were nothing at stake.
You've got a bit of a point there, but I think the movie did a decent enough job making you forget that.
>The dialogue is just delivered different than modern movies which lacks the class and grace of previous eras […]
That's no excuse for the flat, boring cinematography. You can do theatrical dialogue while making it visually interesting.
>it breaks the fucking immersion of the universe when Daisy Ridley sound like a fucking 14 year old teenager from Manchester rather than a fucking lonely child scavenger who was dropped off at an off-shore desert planet at a young age. Or John BOYSHIEEETYega who both look and sound like he's in Pimp my Ride rather than a former brainwashed Janitor/Stormtrooper from the empire.
Agreed. Ridley speaking in an English accent was stupid because that was supposed to be an Empire thing. And Boyega also looked to me like someone who sells death sticks on the lower reaches of Coruscant.
>And the dialogue in the prequels are stilted aswell, because they live in an finer era, everyone is very sophisticated and high-class, which in itself is shown very evident also on the clothing-style, the settings, how they battle, how the wars are waged and HOW THEY TALK.
There's talking in a classy way, and there's dialogue that sounds just unnatural. Sorry, m8, the prequels have their strong points, but dialogue is not one of them.
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No.17730
>>17722
I disagree anon but to each their own.
On an off-note though, i legit thought it was a mock-trailer when they showed that sweaty nigger at the start of the first Force Awakens-trailer. I legit thought someone was pulling my leg, then i got fucking worried the second i saw it was for real.
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No.17732
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No.17733
>>17502
>The Prequels have better fight scenes, ship and alien designs. Sequels had better dialogue and acting.
^this tbh. the writing may have been a little lackluster but fortunately the actors were able save it save it with what could have been slightly underwritten characters Daisy Ridley in particular
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No.17734
>>17732
Twist:
- Boomers are the OT target, who are either computer illiterate or complete autist programmers;
- Idiot millennials are the target of the PT, and their online life is social media to chronicle their normal day to day;
- The ST is for soys and feminists: they share the same social media as millennials, with the sole difference their online life is undifferentiated from real life.
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No.17790
>>17399
Because gender extremists are usually mentally challenged.
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No.17791
>>17733
She looks like a guy who just finished the surgery.
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No.18540
>>17733
Father and Mother of Rey revealed….
Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money…
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No.18541
>>17791
she looks like a cutie who should date me
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No.18542
>>18541
Don't even daydream about it.
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No.18543
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No.18544
>>18543
Just like the reboot trilogy.
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No.18547
>>17400
>rome
There's definitely some in there, but isn't mostly mirroring Hitler's rise to power?
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No.18549
>>18547
I think i was a very generalized allegory for how nations can fall to tyrannical leaders. The Nazi Germany parallels in terms of imagery are the most prominent however.
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No.18551
>>18549
Of course, but did he have Hitler in mind, or Caesar? Considering the other parallels to National Socialist Germany, I think it's the former, which is Pleb-tier.
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No.18552
>>18551
*I want to believe that the Prequels really are completely Patrician, but it doesn't feel that way. Also, consider Red Tails, and Lucas' comments around it.
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No.18553
>>18552
Maybe I just need to watch them again. Still, I prefer the better parts of the EU over the films. The mysticism, while interesting, is not something I can always get behind. And midichlorians are interesting, but they do demystify things. Maybe I shouldn't post when sick, eh?
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No.18554
>>18551
>Of course, but did he have Hitler in mind, or Caesar?
Can't speak for Lucas but I always saw Caesar. When you consider just how old the Old Republic is too, the Rome parallels start to make sense. I didn't even notice the Uncle Adolf parallels until soyboys started comparing Sheev to Trump.
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No.18559
>>18554
Can you explain how it is more akin to Rome? Besides all the other Nazi stuff, Sheev became dictator because of a false-flag. He claimed that the Jedi were attempting to overthrow the Republic, despite the fact that he's the one doing that, much like how a normie-historyfag will tell you that the Nazis claimed the Bolsheviks/Jews were trying to take over Germany, using them as a scapegoat so that they could rally support to take over Germany, culminating with the Reichstag fire ("uprising" of the Jedi), which they will tell you was a false-flag (even though it wasn't). Then, of course, the following genocide of the Jedi and the support given for it (republicans who were against them/Bolsheviks/Jews). Now, while there are similarities to be made with Caesar—the claim that the Senate were attempting to overthrow the Republic, the following purge of the Senate after the Civil War (although the Senate is considered corrupt), the fact that there was a senate afterwards—I don't see the armed and civilian support for the Jedi, and they are seen as largely weak, innocent and helpless, considering how easily they are betrayed and cut down, and this is seen as sad, and they're also the "good guys", as opposed to the Roman Senate, who were corrupt.
As I said, I think there's some Roman elements there, but considering Lucas' politics and what I see in the films, it seems that it takes more from Hitler than any other. I think most people, if they decided to write an allegory for how nations can fall to tyranny, would pick Hitler and the Third Reich, (which is partly why it is so Pleb-tier).
"Good" Empire >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OT "Bad" Empire
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No.18560
>>18554
>>18551
>>18549
the nazi germany parallels are purely cosmetic, i.e. weapons and uniforms. the empire itself is much more based in rome and britain than it is germany. but as anon said, it's meant to be a timeless parable of societies giving into emotions and shit, letting evil rise up. this is why the sequel trilogy sucks, because it's so stuck in the current year.
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No.18561
>>18560
Do you have an argument for how is it not like how I've described? Instead of just a statement.
Also,
>Rome and Britain
>Britain
What?
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No.18562
>>18559
>Can you explain how it is more akin to Rome?
The Republic is a centuries-old Yes I know it's millennia, but the transition from "real world" to the /sw/ galaxy seems to involve a bit of inflation government that over time has become rotten with corruption. After the transition from Republic to Empire vestigial elements such as the Senate remain but have no real power. Both Sheev and Caesar were already part of the existing aristocracy that manipulated their way to a greater position through being granted "emergency" powers and simply failing to let them go. Hitler by contrast was just some guy before he started making speeches at beer halls, and didn't do much in the way of manipulation. Palpatine and Caesar both had the support of an army fiercely loyal to them personally, whereas Hitler often butted heads with the military elite. And while Caesar rose to power through beating down external enemies and conquering Gaul, Rome was suffering quite a bit of internal strife at the time as well, although most of that came to a head in the next generation with Octavian. And he did enact something of a purge, as his counterparts on the Triumvirate were cut down and the Optimates in general ceased to exist. Seeing as he wasn't assassinated and he had to cut through internal enemies as well, I think it's best to say Palpatine is a mix of aspects of both Caesar and Augustus.
You have a point about the false-flagging and how normies would equate that to Hitler, I'll give you that. The Jedi being genocided though is honestly never a connection I thought of making. I can see some of the parallels, sure, but to me the Jedi were always more of a political faction than an ethnic group inb4 so are the Jews, and as such Order 66 was more of a political powerplay than a true genocide. But that's really a matter of personal interpretation, so I won't stress the point.
Finally, while I think that the Republic/Empire was more Roman than NatSoc, it's best to remember that Star Wars isn't meant to be an allegory for any one thing; rather, it's a gestalt of themes and parallels from all of history to create a timeless story. Just like the Rebels/Empire can be seen as America/Britbong Empire, Viet Cong/America, and any number of other events, the RotE era is just as much Rome as it is the 3rd Reich.
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No.18564
>>18562
Okay, thanks, I guess I really just needed to watch the films again.
>a mixture of themes
This is why I said it felt like both.
In the case of the Jedi, I thought it was pretty obvious, though I can just as easily compare them to a traditional ruling elite. The Jedi have a close connection to the Force (the "Chosen people"), are "good" so to speak, and adhere to strict philosophical/mystical doctrine, are used as a scapegoat (even though the Jews were a legitimate threat), and are massacred by space-nazis (didn't happen :^) ), who listen only to their Fuhrer, their Emperor.
And, I thought about how Sheev was a bit of a mixture of Caesar and his heir, but we were speaking of Caesar, I didn't bother. Also, I did mention that there was a purge of the Roman Senate, but not to the extent of Octavian Augustus'. Anyway, thanks for convincing me. I've grown to hate WW2 themes/allegories in stories because it's done so frequently, and because it's some of the only history normalfags are really acustomed to. So, it's nice to see some classical themes.
Good night /sw/.
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No.18565
>>18564
*ah, and of course, the Jedi had some power, the Jews are acknowledged to have been "pushed" into banking and media, the argument being that the evil goyim made it so that they couldn't get jobs anywhere else and were "forced" to become businessmen
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No.18566
>>18561
what is the british empire, you dolt?
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No.18568
>>18566
I think he was asking about how Sheev's rise to power has any similarities to Great Britain.
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No.18570
>>18568
oh, i was meaning britain more towards the OT empire. i'm sure there's some charlemagne n shit in sheev.
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No.18571
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Observe. Do you see anything from Disney's efforts equal to this?
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No.18574
>>18571
Wow, if only I could feel that when watching the films :^)
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No.18575
>>18574
*In all seriousness, I really wish I felt that when I saw the films. It's a shame I didn't.
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No.18584
>>18575
Perhaps it's time for a rewatch. Give it a look with less jaundiced eyes.
>Remember that line, "I need your help, son"? That's a word Anakin has waited to hear for all his life.
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No.18585
>>18571
>end of video title is best goy "Star Wars Explained"
>uploader of video is pro-EU "Star Wars Theory"
I'm confused.
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No.18586
>>18585
>end of video title is best goy "Star Wars Explained"
¿Que?
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No.18587
>>18586
As in the last three words of the title. SWT is a pretty cool guy, while SWE is a Disney shill whose videos are featured on the nu-wiki and I believe he's shittalked SWT a couple times.
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No.18589
>>18584
Problem is I watched them when I was very little, and so for whatever reason I had trouble paying attention when I do rewatch them. As I result I am rather reluctant to rewatch even the Original Trilogy.
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No.18590
>>18586
>>18587
Perhaps he innocently thought he could use those words.
By the way, be sure to keep your eyes on your email by the weekend. Kinda want to ask you some stuff.
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No.18591
>>18587
>and I believe he's shittalked SWT a couple times
More like an all out flame war. Some even draw cringy art of Explained fighting Theory.
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No.18592
>>18590
Are you two gay lovers? :^)
>>18591
Well, post it goy :^)
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No.18593
>>18592
>Well, post it goy
>:^)
Not with that ugly face.
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No.18594
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No.18595
>>18594
I can't fucking find it now. All I could find was the G&G vs Explained one which is just a cheap shoop.
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No.18596
>>17399
Because star wars does not run on soy
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No.18602
>>17734
>tfw gen x losers brainwashed the millenials into hating the prequels too
it's not fair
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No.18655
>>18602
it's okay, there are new schisms within the fanbase that A) like all three trilogies B) like everything pre-disney and some disney elements and C) like everything pre-disney and none of the disney sw
what we need to do is shitpost across fan sites to make it seem like group C is growing more and more each day to the point that it drowns out the soyboys and boomers
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No.18891
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