/sw/ - Star Wars

Stupid is as stupid does.

I'm getting particularly annoyed at the self-righteous crowds on both sides. I'm all for having a preference, but acting like you are morally superior to someone because of the Star Wars you like is retarded.

To clarify, that doesn't mean I have issues with people mocking and deriding things. We have plenty of people on this board who shit on the nu-canon without acting as if George Lucas himself gave them a holy kiss of blessing on their grand crusade against stuff they dislike. Unfortunately, the nu-canon crowd is started to lean even harder that way and I'm getting real sick of it.

My favorite irony is the plebbit fags who defended TLJ due to its critic rating on RT, but now say critics are rarely right in defense of Solo.

>>15829

There was always EU mockery but it was always either fun or light-hearted. But ever since the buyout, its nothing but pretentious assholes who suck Disney's cock and complain how the old stories were bad because they weren't inclusive enough or simply bad because Poe, Finn, Kylo and Rey don't exist, while using the tired old "the past needs to die" line from TLJ despite that the entirety of what Disney is doing to this franchise is refusing to let it die in peace while swinging the corpse around for the amusement of assholes.

>>15834

Everything was a lot simpler when it was just EU nerds and OT purists arguing. Then these new fucks come along and they start using SW as a platform for some kind of culture war and an excuse to "purge" the toxic past to the point where not just the EU but even the OT is falling victim to their antics.

>>15834

I agree. Mouse Wars has left me thoroughly disappointed time and time again. I think there's a clear preference, even if it includes the fucking Vong. I just get sick of the moral high ground fight that the buyout introduced through KK.

>>15832

This is a good point. I also think EU criticism before the buyout was far more layered and interesting. The handling of nu-canon has been so consistently shit that people don't really like to criticize old canon on its fuckups in fear of fueling these SJWs flooding the community.

At least, that's what I've noticed.

>>15842

>>15842

It wasn't just layered and interesting. They always made good points and were actual valid criticisms that anyone could have about a subject they loved, hell I hate the Vong and everything about them but I can still sit down and enjoy some of their media and not harp on anyone for liking them. Now its more like mockery and insults ever since 2012 which got steadily worse. Its like people who watch the Big Bang Theory and think they're nerds but then meet actual dorks and tell them to fuck off because they take their hobbies more seriously than the jackass who's just doing it to fit in with the latest trend.

>>15832

this, we have no problem admitting the old eu had its fair share of absolute trash, but in comparison to nu-canon they seem like minor cases.

>>157829

Eat a dick you stupid nigger. The Disney shill side, your side, is the problem. There’s all the arrogance with the pansexual freaks and women who all belong in hell.

>>15855

You know, anon, I agree entirely.

To add, I feel there was a different sense around the EU back then, both to those making and those experiencing. It was this "bigger than us" feeling, where the influence of the real world on the EU was looked down upon because it was meant to be larger and more timeless than that. But that's all changed in nu-canon. It's not about the stories anymore, just about the money and the politics. There's no one stepping in saying "This universe is more important than my personal beliefs." It's tragic.

>>15862

So, I can tell you're responding to me and that you're retarded.

How the fuck did you gather that I was Disney shilling? Nigger, calm down. You're choking on hatedick at the wrong person or you misread how I said we have people here who can criticize the nu-canon WITHOUT acting like holier-than-thou fucks.

Read more, faggot.

>>15869

Its just misreading anon. Pay it no mind. Its easy to understand that we're all on edge. A thing we once loved is getting butchered and there's nothing we can do other than share our thoughts and vent our frustrations sadly. Honestly, I always knew SW would hit a terrible point someday myself, I just never new it would be this bad.

>>15871

Alright, anon. Sorry for snapping back a bit too hard. You're right, it is easy to be on edge.

It's true and it sucks complete ass. That's why I jumped on the EU-continuation project on here, as well as helping out the HoloNet wiki.(Just waiting on Staff to let an anon mass transfer pages.) I've come to conclusion that things aren't gonna get better for us and the universe we fell in love with unless we make it better.

>>15869

There’s nothing to criticize on the non-disney side. You are equating the two sides and this is a common goon tactic. We did nothing wrong. We are not paid to gove our opinions. We are customers. All we did is say the movies suck and there is no place for faggot bullshit in star wars. Therefore, it is obvious you are a colossal faggot who should be ignored.

>>15880

>There’s nothing to criticize on the non-disney side.

There is one thing. A lot of former EU fans like the fucking assholes over at the TheForce.net jumped ship just because they wanted a movie more than comics, vidya or books. We were betrayed by many who we though were in our own field back then because it turns out they were superficial fucks who care more about the brand name than the stories.

>>15884

Like for example Wookieepedia, a bastion of SW knowledge and one of the biggest, if not the biggest, wiki out there. But they up and abandoned everything in a heartbeat.

>>15880

>equalizing both sides

Not at all, I said there were people I thought were stupid on both sides because they treat Star Wars like a holy war. You're reasoning to ignore me is because I dare consider that people who like the stuff I like can be retards. Yes, we're the customer. We can criticize things. If you weren't able to get the "carefully hidden subtext", I heavily support discussion and criticism, but I want it to be valid shit without people's fucking politics. It's why I can't stand plebbit Star Wars fans, because they don't criticize shit and they surround themselves with positive opinions about every fucking Disney release. It's obvious that they didn't think about the quality at all and cared more about the politics or the brand. That's retarded.

You know what's also retarded? People who blindly attack anyone who doesn't take every second of their life to pretend that everyone who paid for a Disney movie is evil and everyone apart of your community is fucking angels.(Even though I'm on your side and you've taken every chance to attempt to derail my point.) You are proof that this community can be just as stupid as the other. The difference is that there's one of you for every hundred of them.

>>15828

>Me, an intellectual

That's some pretty heavy fart huffing.

>>15835

I forget, the old Lucasfilm never tried to call the fans unreasonable, did they?

>There's no one stepping in saying "This universe is more important than my personal beliefs."

Then perhaps we should. We have our own projects, and can form our own arguments.

>>15884

We really need to establish a line of questioning which they can't even refuse to answer without looking wimpy. Starting with: How is this Star Wars?

Also:

>ignore Alderaanian posts

>>15958

>I forget, the old Lucasfilm never tried to call the fans unreasonable, did they?

You kidding? They loved the fans and always dropped easter eggs and read emails from them. They also knew how to have fun, and their vidya department was never short on fun and fanservice.

>>15958

>We really need to establish a line of questioning which they can't even refuse to answer without looking wimpy.

They just ignore it and pretend they didn't read anything. I remember there were at least some who protested the making of TFA, but as soon as JJ made that shitty promo of his with the non-cgi chicken alien walking in the back, everyone creamed their pants and ran off to team Disney because "OMG TRADITIONAL EFFECTS!"

>declare the entire EU noncanon so you can rip it off wholesale without having to pay any of the old writers for loyalties

>every new writer you get is a whiny SJW twat you makes up any lack of payment demand by being a ticking timebomb of bad PR

>everything they churn out makes even the worst of EU look like gold

Feels good.

>>15966

EU material has also been banned in france, so the value for it there will increase in time, more so than the shit Disney is spewing now. I've been seeing french forums actually show more interest in the EU now surprisingly.

>>15968

>EU material has also been banned in france

I don't understand.

>>15970

https://www.planete-starwars.com/actualites/livres-pocket-l-univers-legendes-en-vf-c-est-fini--n18928.html

Disney will no longer be releasing EU/Legends material in France and has stopped all production for it over there.

>>15973

How much do you suppose one could make smuggling in EU materials into France?

>>15829

>I'm all for having a preference, but acting like you are morally superior to someone because of the Star Wars you like is retarded.

=Pick a side, we're at war=

Nah, I actually agree.

>George Lucas himself gave them a holy kiss of blessing on their grand crusade against stuff they dislike

Some of the stuff started with Big G himself even, though I'd argue that Disney are the ones "going a little to far in some places" with Lucas' more questionable inclinations.

>>15832

What gets me are the "nerd culture" e-zine journalists hailing the so-called firsts for women, gays, horses, etc. when the old EU was so fucking vast it'd be easier not to find which diversity checkbox they filled. Fug, there was even a tri-gendered alien race.

>>15834

The "Legends" EU catalog is just too vast not to have things to love and loathe alike. Lucasfilm keeps tightening the leash around their creatives as time goes on and it's getting increasingly noticeable in comics and novels.

>>16239

In about 5 years, material without the Legends label should be worth plenty. Stuff with the Legends label in the french language though might end up being considered rare and probably worth more or less depending on the buyer since a lot of the french fans over I've seen commenting on this seem to greatly dislike the label, saying "it feels out of place on the covers". But no doubt they'll be collectors items assuming they don't have more than enough french prints to keep circulating online via independent sellers.

>>15832

>>15829

I agree with the sentiment of disliking the doublesided self-righteousness over something that's just meaningless entertainment like Star Wars.

But speaking of the EU, one weird behavior I've noticed though that has to come from shills (maybe?) is them using the EU as part of their argument. Remember back in the day when, if something in the EU was dumb, you could just ignore it? Everyone did it. Easiest thing to do. Hell, as a kid I went years and years without even knowing about the EU at all beyond two games and a book. It's all its own thing and then different things within it, take what you'd like.

Recently shills have turned that mindset upside down. When you criticize the Disney films for not having a good out of film universe or any content to fall back on, the retort is "Yeah but the old EU sucked too! Remember Aboleth or the crying mountain?", and back in the day you could say "lol who cares"/"lol ignore that stuff", but now they don't want you to. The shills now defend the Disney EU by insisting the old EU was all-or-nothing, that if you ignored even one bit of it you have to ignore all of it.

This may sound abstract if you've never seen it, but to summarize the argument in a greentext

>Disney's EU is bad.

>Yeah, but the old EU had bad stuff too, remember *thing bad in the old EU*?

>Yeah, but you could ignore it. It's not like the universe or your enjoyment is fundamentally changed by *thing bad in the old EU, for example that Ewok mountain*.

>That's just headcanon! The EU was all linked and you have to follow all of it or you're just making up your own canon! You have to follow all of it or else you're admitting it sucked and Disney is right!

Then again maybe I sound like a loon myself, but I can't be the only one who's noticed this. Shills desperately clinging on to the shittier parts of the old EU and using those as ammunition to defend Disney, because now you're apparently forbidden from selectively going through the old stuff — you know, like everyone did for 30+ years.

>>16295

>>leet is the first female droid ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

>multiple feminine and/or female voiced droids from the previous films

>>16606

This is a good point. I've witnessed it, too.

I'm all for pointing out the dumb stuff in the old EU, but it's incredibly frustrating when it's used as a way to discredit all of it.

I guess it pisses me off because there's just as much to complain about in Dis-canon(if not more) and it's about 1/60th of the size of the EU. Plus, I can name 50 good novels/games from the EU and two from nu-canon.

I think a part of it is just treating the EU(where canon was largely subjective and there were multiple layers of canon) like nu-canon.(where everything matters equally) I also think there's a sense of defensiveness to it, but I can't be sure.

>>16615

Yeah, it comes off as this petty damned if you do scenario, where it's either

>HAH, you follow all the old EU, so that means you acknowledge the shit parts! Disney was right!

>HAH, you ignore parts of the old EU, but you can't do that, so you're saying it was shit! Disney was right!

>>16617

Absolutely. It seems a lot of the come into the argument under the opinion that criticism is pointless because the EU had bad stuff, so new bad stuff can be ignored or they've already decided they like Disney canon, so they're not interested in doing anything but defending their "side."

>>16609

At least that's one thing to look forward to. Seedy-looking faggots in alleys dressed as jawas (probably with me among them) trying to peddle rare Star Wars novels and vidya as the Disney police tries to shut them down. Sounds pretty damn hilarious.

>>16606

>>16615

>>16617

Essentially this. I never even bring up the EU when speaking my mind about Disney, and many of the arguments they use against me are always "George/Prequels/EU were worse! Be grateful to Disney for what we have now! EU is 95/99% garbage!" Then when you actually ask them which content they read, they either dismiss you, don't reply or just scream "Skippy the Jedi Droid" because that's what they read about in Dorkly's shitty "why the EU being gone is a good thing" article which just copies 5 articles from wookieepedia, some of which are April Fools Pranks, commercial advertisements and Luuuke. Luuuke and Skippy are always the ones they mention right off the bat so you can tell they're just parroting Dorkly's list and that youtube video which read from said list.

What was once fun jabbing is now basically just self-absorbed and angry ridicule. I wouldn't even give two shits about Disney's bullshittery if I could at least still talk about the EU elsewhere, but whenever I bring it up now it just brings trolls and Disney shills who try to shut all discussion down with shitposting and Disney shilling. I mean what the fuck is up with that? I could understand if EU fans were actively attacking Disney, but it was quite the opposite after Disney first made their announcement, with redditfags and trolls just starting shit on several forums, and then former fans just leaving you alone in the dust so they could suck disney cock relentlessly and joining in the mockery because that was the "hip" thing to do. Hell part of me was actually glad Disney retconned the EU at first because that meant they couldn't give it the tumblr/neo-progressive treatment that sacrifices quality for the sake of some soapbox narrative, but then they started fucking with us anyway, then Wookieepedia got reconstructed and they started bringing in some EU elements and re-introducing them into even worse things, like how Chuck Wending brought back HK-47 and just made him Deadpool the Droid.

>>16620

I hate it whenever people complain about Skippy and Luuuke. Mainly because Skippy was a deliberately non-canon story and Luuuke was a one off character who still made sense in context. They're such nothing complaints. It's annoying as shit.

>>16629

It's also just really disingenuous in general that the unspoken rule of the EU being pick and choose is now revoked so they can defend Disney, like even if Luuuke really makes your piss boil it's easily ignored, but to these shill types anything except 100% absolute total EU is just "your headcanon" and that supposedly vindicates Disney, because you either are forced to accept the EU's worse points (which makes Disney right) or you choose to ignore those points (which somehow also makes Disney right).

Even worse is when they'll happily choose to ignore worse aspects of Disney content, despite Disney content being explicitly, overtly, as a rule interconnected and inseparably standardized, while the EU was even at its strictest a loose free for all.

But hey, when the Mouse writes you a check you gotta do your part.

>>16630

The unspoken rule was idiotic. Canon matters because without it there isn't an objective standard for establishing a common knowledge of the setting and settling misunderstandings. I got real fed up reading morons on the TOR forums try to inject their RP characters' ideas of how the Force works into lore discussions and responding to being corrected with EU sources with, "LOL, I just ignore that cuz I like my theory better." It's no better than when normies decide that Revan was a Dark Side female simply because that was how they played KotOR and they can substitute their reality whenever they want.

>even at is strictest a loose free for all

Leland Che did have the unenviable task of herding cats, but it's not fair to call the tiered canon system a free-for-all. I personally never got what was so difficult to understand about it. Everything in the EU was canon, but certain sources took precedence whenever there appeared to be a discrepancy or misunderstanding. If you were trying to understand something based on whether or you saw it in a comic book or The Clone Wars cartoons, then the latter took predominance thanks to being the highest level at G-canon.

Disney's problem isn't creating a standardized EU, it's that they're insisting on running everything through a lathe of idpol. If the Lucasfim story group were actually made up the people who made the EU interesting or even just the paid geeks used by BioWare to write the TOR codex then it wouldn't be such shit. It might even be good.

>>16637

>The unspoken rule was idiotic. Canon matters because without it there isn't an objective standard for establishing a common knowledge of the setting and settling misunderstandings. I got real fed up reading morons on the TOR forums try to inject their RP characters' ideas of how the Force works into lore discussions and responding to being corrected with EU sources with, "LOL, I just ignore that cuz I like my theory better." It's no better than when normies decide that Revan was a Dark Side female simply because that was how they played KotOR and they can substitute their reality whenever they want.

SWTOR was a mistake.

>>16637

While I agree on the TOR part I think it's stupid to force that kind of canon on people in general, because people disagree and might find some things shitty. Like by ignoring stupider parts of the EU you're not fundamentally changing everything about it, you're just saying "Hey, that shit's dumb, I pass." That's something always done and that can still be done, and otherwise people again just use it as ammo to jerk off Disney.

>>16673

>people disagree and might find some things shitty

Nobody cares. You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

>Like by ignoring stupider parts of the EU you're not fundamentally changing everything about it, you're just saying "Hey, that shit's dumb, I pass."

That is an attempt to fundamentally change the EU by denial and omission. Maturity demands we accept and reconcile the flaws instead of pretending they don't exist.

>That's something always done and that can still be done

Just because a lot of retards do it doesn't make it proper and right.

>people again just use it as ammo to jerk off Disney.

So? They'll defend Disney no matter what.

>>16677

>reconcile the flaws instead of pretending they don't exist.

But you have to ignore some inconsistencies to make things work, anyway. It's an inherent part of the franchise.

>>16677

>Nobody cares. You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

But the EU was just people putting their opinions into something too.

>That is an attempt to fundamentally change the EU by denial and omission. Maturity demands we accept and reconcile the flaws instead of pretending they don't exist.

I disagree. There's nothing immature about being selective with the expanded universe. That's how it worked for pretty much its entire lifetime. There are things in there people find great, things people find horrible, and almost always things are disconnected from each other, as there were hundreds of cooks in many separate kitchens. Consder the following two statements:

>Palpatine rebuilt Anakin's charred body as Darth Vader.

>Palpatine rebuilt Anakin's charred body as Darth Vader in the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center where the medical droid staff polished Vader's armor with wudu hide to make it appear nicer than it actually was.

What exactly is lost if I find the second example dumb and choose to ignore it? What is fundmentally changed to the point of being irreconcilable with the universe as a whole?

>Just because a lot of retards do it doesn't make it proper and right.

Just because you view it as wrong doesn't make it so.

>So? They'll defend Disney no matter what.

Right, but it's the rise of hypocrisy and this faux defensive tactic that irks me. In 1996, no one cared if you ignored parts of the Expanded Universe. It was actively encouraged by games like WEG's Star Wars. Draw from what's there, make up your own world, be it for a game or for general fandom itself. Now, people will say that's not allowed, and that every single piece of the Expanded Universe is not only canon to Legends, but is mandatory to be linked, and you cannot ignore, omit, or interpret anything in even a remotely different way. It's canon to its religious definition, and what it amounts to this is hypocritical tactic of defending Disney, claiming you care about the old EU as to defend it from so-called "headcanon", but then using this to point out the bad shit in the EU to defend Disney's new stuff.

>the new EU is bad

>but the old EU had a lot of bad stuff too like -thing- so disney is fine

>yeah but you can just ignore -thing-

>no you can't do that that's a discredit to the EU you have to be mature and accept all of it therefore accepting disney is fine and if you don't then you have to ignore all the EU meaning disney's EU is fine

This shit grates me more than TOR Mary Sue OCs being roleplayed as relatives of major Star Wars characters.

>>16678

That's what the lettered tiers were for, and it wasn't a difficult system.

>>16679

>The EU was just people putting their opinions into something too.

No, the EU was people afforded the privilege to play in Lucas' sandbox and have their ideas become a legitimate part of the universe. When they strayed too far from Lucas' vision, as happened many times, they were easily reigned in.

>There's nothing immature about being selective with the expanded universe.

Except basically sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "LALALALALA NO VONGS." Denial over taste is intrinsically immature, yes.

>That's how it worked for pretty much its entire lifetime.

No, that is how some fans wanted it to work but what they believed and what it actually was were two different things.

>What exactly is lost if I find the second example dumb and choose to ignore it? What is fundmentally changed to the point of being irreconcilable with the universe as a whole?

What's lost is detail and character that fleshes out what was formally something rather superficial and light. What's fundamentally changed is the history of these characters and their associated artifacts.

>Just because you view it as wrong doesn't make it so.

Just because you view it as right doesn't make it so. I say it wrong because it quite simply is. Like water is wet. Like black is dark. It just is.

>In 1996, no one cared if you ignored parts of the Expanded Universe.

We did, but we were often drowned out by the faggots who thought they could will their headcanon into substituting what actually happens in Star Wars. Headcanon quasi-fans are just the RLM prequel-hating dorks of their day and deserve no less contempt.

>It was actively encouraged by games like WEG's Star Wars

Neckbeards rolling dice aren't granted the privilege of writing true canon. Nobody cares that their homebrew anthropomorphic badger sith can spit Force fireballs.

>Draw from what's there, make up your own world, be it for a game or for general fandom itself

A game yes. General fandom? Not really. There has to be a common ground of things that are accepted as true based on what can be cited in the media of the franchise. Otherwise there's no point to even having a common subject of fandom because every autistic sped's opinion on how the galaxy should work is equally valid. That's shit-tier democratization of the facts and it deserves to be ridiculed into submission.

>every single piece of the Expanded Universe is not only canon to Legends, but is mandatory to be linked, and you cannot ignore, omit, or interpret anything in even a remotely different way

And that's okay, because it's correct. Every single piece of Legends (excepting, of course, stuff labeled "infinities" and "what-if" but rather goes without saying) is interlinked. If there is something in an EU source that conflicts with another, than the item of or with support from a higher tier takes precedent. Sort of like how the Clone Wars stuff in "I, Jedi" is overruled by episode II.

>This shit grates me more than TOR Mary Sue OCs being roleplayed as relatives of major Star Wars characters.

Again, nobody gives a fuck about some permavirgin roleplaying as Thrawn's ancestor in his raid group. What matters is when demonstrably, provably wrong people do stuff like say the Force works the way it's described in Potentium theory because they prefer it that way even after LucasArts went out of its way to lay the smackdown on it harder than Lucas did on Mandalorian Iron. Some things just have to be accepted or there is no common ground for understanding, and if things in authoritative literature guided by a canon ruleset are not that, then I don't know what is.

>>16683

At this point I feel our disagreement lies at a fundamental difference in how we view the agency of fans and the way extramovie material should be managed. In which case, I don't think there's much point arguing.

Admittedly, I think the answer lies somewhere in between.

While, yes, it is important to accept the bad with the good and be mature about it, it's also important to collectively omit some things. (The Crystal Star being the easiest example.) When canon openly disrespects and disregards canon, we can acknowledge its existence without putting a spotlight on it. In essence: it's shit; you can read it, but no one will ever discuss these storylines outside of those bringing disdain; let's move on.

At least, that's my opinion.

>>16686

>be mature about it

I think just these 4 words solves most of these problems.

I think we can all agree that there's no one way to accept the EU, what matters is that it had something for everyone and we could all interpret it in anyway we wanted to, which was made it such a rich treasure trove of lore and fun for each community that liked exploring it before Disney came along and fucked it all up. A once large group of multiple schools of roleplaying and enjoyment shattered into a shitty and soulless two-sided Legends vs Canon debacle where no one has fun and the Disney side is constantly shitting on us no matter how we handled or viewed the expanded media.

>>16709

You summed it up perfectly. Lucas had nurtured a universe and community that rewarded imagination, creativity, and originality, Disney has done the opposite.