/pol/ - Politically Incorrect

>>13610599

The Sons of this World are Wiser in their Generation than the Children of Light.

>>13610623

interesting, I guess that WAS an at least IMPLIED Main Idea but they never laid it out directly.

I guess it was always implied "people were dumb in the old days, but we know better now".

It was never implied or put forth "WTF do you think people will know better in the future that we (the school and its neo-lib socialistic current dogma) are dumb about today?"

How does this related to total lack of pre-1000AD Christian, Muslim AND/OR Jewish artifacts AND/OR proofs of even existence?

I note that there aren't even any mentions of any of the 3 in anyone's records. No mention of the new assploding Muslim empire in Church records pre-1000AD? Well, no because there aren't any pre-1000AD church records, of anything! :)

How about maybe some Hindu or Zoroastrian records of the big new very aggressive thing on their borders?

>>13610564

The shroud of turin was proven to be real which proves jesus is real. Better luck next time, Satan.

>>13610708

> shroud of turin

are you trolling me, boy?

The microscopist Walter McCrone found, based on his examination of samples taken in 1978 from the surface of the shroud using adhesive tape, that the image on the shroud had been painted with a dilute solution of red ochre pigment in a gelatin medium. McCrone found that the apparent bloodstains were painted with vermilion pigment, also in a gelatin medium.[5] McCrone's findings were disputed by other researchers, and the nature of the image on the shroud continues to be debated.[4]: 364–366  In 1988, radiocarbon dating by three independent laboratories established that the shroud dates back to the Middle Ages, between the years 1260 and 1390.[6][7]

the Hard Science testing allowed on The Shroud is an example of what is NOT being allowed on other artifacts.

>>13610564

>Lustful image

I'd fuck her right in the pussy

If you know what I mean

>>13610862

>I'd fuck her right in the pussy

what did he mean by that?

>>13610564

not gonna read all this shit. ywnbaw so please just kys

>>13610565

>

Suddenly, about exactly 1000AD, we have glut of clearly "Jesus on the Cross" and related Christian artifacts. Did I miss some epic edict from The Pope that suddenly green-lit production of such things, from a prior total prohibition on pain of death, as well as of course mandated destruction of items?

This is called the "end of tbe dark ages". People weren't making nice things earlier because they had forgotten how. The Hollywood memes about how bad the period between Rome and the castle builders was,understate the magnitude of the collapse. Some parts of Europe lostpottery and stone carving.

>>13610564

Yazidism is ancient and basically abrahamism but Lucifer tells the story

>>13610989

some claim about 500yrs were tacked on about 500AD.

some say artifacts with tree rings and dates of solar eclipse debunks that but I haven't ever gotten details on either.

what about places that didn't lose pottery? what about supposedly Christian Roman emperors still mostly in charge of still mostly Roman Empire?

>>13610989

>He actually believes the 'dark ages' myth

>He actually believes a european civilization lost a technology as fundemental to society as pottery in the iron age.

They didn't lose pottery the the bronze age collapse - a period where the greeks literally lost their own written language and - what in the unholy fuck makes you think they lost it during the same period where glassmaking was being innovated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatine_Chapel%2C_Aachen

this is claimed to have been done about 800AD. but without even checking I can tell you clearly now existing Jesus/Christian stuff was all "later remodeled". Ditto with several Mosques. The building and foundation can be dated prior to 1000AD, but everything religious was "redone".

There are images of "last supper" pre-1000AD, but will be better match for Zodiac. Post 1000AD Last Supper will include little hints for each member according to Bible story. Pre-1000 "12 guys and a leader at a table" wont.

>>13611032

IMO pottery/fired clay is excellent indicator of WTF was going on because:

its easy to make, you just need clay and fire.

everyone makes so much of it.

everyone's is going to be different because is hand made from soft material. You could send a dozen guys trained to make exact same pots to diff villages who didn't have pottery and next generation you'd be able to ID diff villages by their pottery.

once fired it lasts forever, in just about any environment.

IIRC there are about 2 dozen Ethnic groups able to be IDed by their pottery in what is now Israel prior to Romans arriving. Guess which ethnic group is missing. :)

Its a cottage industry in Israeli Dept of Antiquity to go around labeling any low quality broken unmarked clay frags as "proof of Ancient Israel" and "determined to be Hebrew".

Catacombe di Priscilla has lots of pics that are sorta claimed to be both pre-1000AD AND Christian.

Two questions:

1)when were they really done, and when were they last re-done? if re-done did the original lack clear Christian context?

2)WTF clearly Christian indicators are there for any of the pics? Madonna with Child. Really, WTF makes you say that give death of mother and/or baby during childbirth very common?

Fresco of a Christian Agape feast showing the fractio panis, the breaking of the bread during the meal of Holy Communion. Really, thats pretty specific and these people did know how to write and spreading written Latin was a Roman Govt program. Could be Point of View of teacher of his students, or stripper's Point of View of her patrons.

>>13610564

> The 7 day week comes from lunar cycle

It comes from the tides, and it's no tides in the Mediterranean.

A fortnight is the time to where the tide repeats, roughly 14 days.

>>13610859

>, also in a gelatin medium

Hide glue.

>>13611012

>what about places that didn't lose pottery?

Norway "lost" pottery, but not really, since they started using iron cauldrons, soap stone and wooden plates and cups.

Nobody cares

>>13611066

>once fired it lasts forever, in just about any environment.

It can't be cleaned, so dairy farmers prefer wood.

At the same time parts of Europe lost pottery, they started making bricks so it's not that they somehow forgot the cindering process.

>>13610564

Very interesting anon, give me more redpills on this

>>13611085

thx, quite interesting TBH, I'd like to check into some of this.

I've heard Carbon-14 later dating COULD be from stuff like later added material, like if someone ever washed it with soap made from organic material of later date, and IIRC while they said they rinsed the fibers tested, there are valid sounding questions as too if that was sure to remove any later materials.

What do skeptics have to say about current Shroud supporters?

As far as all these claims only laser pulses etc can replicate the qualities, first thing I'd do is take some old non-Shroud fabric with marks and see if its equally mysterious to replicate.

Shouldn't there be lots of pollens from just WTF this thing has been stored, and even from all 4 corners of the globe by now? AFAIK pollen travels worldwide, constantly, as do even whole insects that themselves can't fly too far. If there is one thing you learn when brewing beer its that there really is stuff like yeast always flying around everywhere, in every breath you take.

My first guess would be Shroud was first painted with some material, then left in sun, and that material later decomposed into soluble or evaporating components.

Got doubts on many of anti-forgery theory claims about perfect positioning 1-14. Not saying they are wrong, I'd just first at least see if that is what an expert will also come up with "blind". Is this what Tokyo PD detectives will tell you if you said it was from some mob torture hit of Semitic victim?

Got a copy of all this that isn't just one big image, but with intact links? I had a program that was sorta able to produce text from images but I think Windows 10 or 11 broke it.

But thanks for this at least compelling Infographic. :) I'm genuinely compelled to look into it.

>>13610564

bro your english is dogshit

>>13611170

I'll explain how the religious thought process works: one guy makes up a lie and backs it up with authoritative convincing sounding statements

People who want the lie to be true dont verify but just believe it and spread it around

>>13611102

my Commercial fisher (both sea and fresh) and hunter experts tell me it greatly affects behavior of river and pond fish, as well as land based game miles from any ocean, and as well as birds.

They also say it affects humans, and while birth time of year might not matter (Zodiac), that humans are definitely affected by Lunar cycle and that is also transposed with daylight wrap around just like animals, and a major reason everyone is all fucked up is with strict weekly calender your natural Monday is now your Saturday, etc.

Hence the original Egyptian use of 5 candle holder with a pair of aux holders to adjust for the flips. I guess sometimes it would be a one day weekend or 3day, but don't got details.

IMO it fits that The Jews would move from a Nature following system to a strict political/admin calendar.

AFAIK the Romans were still on a Real Lunar based system. "The Ides of March".

>>13611182

Just like his taste in gooks

>>13611085

be very interesting if it turned out The Shroud really was from about 33AD with lots of regional markers and actually from a guy who'd been tortured.

But I'm still mainly focused on the total lack of expected artifacts, especially from the still very productive newly supposedly Christian By Emperor's Edict Roman Empire world.

If that happened, you'd see every wannabe toadie Centurion bucking for promotion and easy billet going all in, just like you see all these Affluent White Female Liberals (AWFLs) with Obama and BLM shit on their cars and rich all White neighborhoods.

And my study of Human Nature says that sort of behavior ramps up exponentially in a once grand but currently morally in decay system, such as late stage Roman. You see garish Christian shit carved into stone of every Senator's home (still had Senate till end, just like we still have "Congress") just like you see Israel flags from every Congressman's office in WashDC.

>>13610564

All religions are post-fall fragments of Christianity, come home lost sheep.

>2:3 And there was nothing on earth, no sect, no opinion clashing with another one, but only 'men' were spoken of, 'of one speech and one language.' There were only ungodliness and godliness, the natural law and the natural error of each individual’s will, not learned from teaching or writings. There was no Judaism, no Hellenism, no other sect at all. But in a sense there was the faith which is now native to God’s present day holy catholic church, a faith which was in existence from the beginning and was revealed again later.

>2:4 Anyone who is willing to make an impartial investigation can see, from the very object of it, that the holy catholic church is the beginning of everything. Adam, the man who was formed at the first, was not formed with a body circumcised, but uncircumcised. He was no idolater, and he knew the Father as God, and the Son and Holy Spirit, for he was a prophet.

>2:5 Without circumcision he was no Jew and since he did not worship carved images or anything else, he was no idolater. For Adam was a prophet, and knew that the Father had said, "Let us make man,"4 to the Son. What was he, then, since he was neither circumcised nor an idolater—except that he exhibited the character of Christianity?

>>13611185

The derived words week, wick and weak, crowded out the root verb in English, but I'm sure you find it in Anglo-Saxon.

To "week" meant to give way, give up your place.

If you give up your place then you are weak, and a wick was a bay where they changed rovers, as they are one week(ancient naval length measure) apart.

From here we get the verb to go Viking, aka having two set of rovers, one resting and one rowing, before they "week" places after having rowed one "week sea".

A tide also come with two "crews". If we start at neap, then the tides will wax for 7 days until spring, and then the tides are waning for 7 days until one is back at neap.

They could have done another word for week, but they chose a word that means to give up it's place, give way, so a week is called a week because of the tides.

>>13611388

are you a Jew trying to get my thread pulled by posting CP?

>>13611372

>Moon light would be pretty important in Olde Days, and even for wild animals.

Yes, but the word "week" don't give meaning with the moon, but it does give meaning when it comes to the tides.

The word month is derived from the moon cycle to state the obvious.

>>13611396

>"Christians" hunted down and exterminated with cruel torture every existing religion in Europe to remotest swamps and highest mountain tops

I'm not sure that is true. Christianity has been at it's bloodiest when it comes to fighting heretics.

>>13611382

interesting, but I'm pretty sure even land locked societies all settled on some sort of 7 day week for Moon Light and animal behavior reasons, probably from pre-historic times.

>>13611396

Because taxes and shit are a bare minimum requirement and not anywhere near the fulfillment of the faith which requires from us and Jews included to be above the law, the righteous and good don't need laws because they do what's righteous and good without being told and threatened with repercussions, you know it's not Jews because it transcended what was preached by the Pharisses.

>>13611434

>>13611396

And to clarify, by above the law it means going above and beyond what the law says, if for example you are expected by the law to give a tenth of your earnings as tax and you willingly give fifty then you are above that law and the people participating in that settlement, taxpayers and lawmakers included, because you aren’t doing it out of some legalistic obligation but because you are truly concerned about those in need.

And as the story goes the Pharisees weren't that fond of this instruction because they were comfortable with meeting their legalistic obligations and weren't that keen of going above and beyond them.

>>13611434

One of my theories is that since pagan "religions" are not so much religion as comfy personification of various natural phenomenon, The Jews schemed to leverage that into Tax Farming money and power grab.

Imagine how the IRS would like it if American taxpayers respected and obeyed the Tax Code the same way a boater "respects and obeys" the USCG Tide Tables, which would be "religiously".

Jesus seems to be re-worked Horus, who was a fairly comfy god well adapted at civilian and peasant use. Romans and even Greeks considered Egyptian religion to be superior and more authoritative than their own, and Horus wouldn't the conqueror's god to all the non-Roman Europeans, just "new information".

Take this a step further and look at popular parables and stories from antiquity.

Things like the Iliad or odyssey.

The only original source for mant ancient stories is the codex sinaiticus which was discovered in 1844.

In fact, most original sources in history can only be traced back to the 1800s.

most of what people read is a reference to a reference to a reference to an original document that either doesn't exist or is in a vault under the Vatican, and even then only 1 or 2 people have ever seen it.

>>13610945

Not sure. I don't get it.

>>13611477

Yes, I think paganism was really just a lot of loose local folk stories rather than genuine religion like we see today with christianity, islam, judaism, etc.

It had little institutionalism. Everyone celebrated yule because it had particular meaning to go along with the ritual, like you have breakfast every morning, and as part of that you light a candle to remember your mom or turn on the tv to drown out reality or something ritualistic and routine like that, but where institutional religion and paganism diverged is the institutional religions made the ritual the point of the process rather than the breakfast, and furthermore organized and forced the ritual on everyone else through social pressures (and sometimes violence) where paganism was less structured and more whatever your nan told stories about what her nan told her, and your nan and someone else's nan might've both known Odin but their stories could be wildly diverging about him too.

>>13610989

>What is the Byzantine Empire?

>>13611546

>heysus from messhole

They say shortly after The Conquest a vision of Jesus appeared in Mexico. He said "Name your sons after me and don't do anything until I come back".

Imagine if a non-White, but somewhat civilized and productive nation like say Koreans or Iranians, had the same incredible good dumb luck to be right next door to USA on arguably even better land and with all the benefits of access to USA, protection of NORAD and USN, rail and roads plugged into US mainland, etc, and none of the high taxes or other downsides, for the last 200yrs.

>>13611791

>hagia sophia

If only they left some kind of clue…

Also Percopious

Also you are terrible at history.

>>13611596

What's even stranger is when Constantine von tischendorf found it

>He claimed that one night while visiting the Eastern Orthodox monastery of St. Catherine’s, he spied an ancient-looking manuscript in a basket of fire kindling. Upon closer inspection, he discovered a very old copy of the Bible, now known as Codex Sinaiticus. Tischendorf could not contain his excitement and immediately requested it. The monks, tipped off to its value by his enthusiasm, only allowed him to take 43 sheets with him.

The story is that monks were burning books for heat, and the codex just happened to be one of the books they were burning.

From there it went into the hands of various royals and tischendorf fought hard to even get a glimpse of it. Eventually he stood trial for stealing the manuscript. Parts of the text were gifted to Russian royals who ended up losing it.

Why would German monks burn it for heat is my biggest question, or even burn it at all? The Germans are historically the largest translators of ancient texts and monks are well educated men. There's no way they were unaware of what they were doing.

The history of sinaiticus and other codex are very muddled, with most of them being held under tight wraps, or copied and lost. We inferior that the copied bits are accurate because we believe that the codex themselves are true to their age.

We should be on the same level of history as China given the texts we have. Brief descriptions of events.

Debunk the dead sea scrolls.

>>13610564

>Nothing Christian, Muslim or Jewish exists older than 1000AD.

this is extremely retarded.

we, Muslims, count our own years and we have counted over 1,400 years so far. and we do know that Christianity and Judaism are older.

>>13610564

>Bro, every archeologist is wrong. I’m actually more knowledgeable and know better.

Whatever you say you delusional retard.

>>13612060

The Holocaust(tm) is the most documented event in history and really, really, really happened.

Blacks are just the same as Whites, the only difference is they have more of the same basically inert pigment that Whites get more of when they get suntans.

The reason USA is great and Latin America sucks bad is our Constitution has a two body legislature (House and Senate), and they just have one chamber. No one knows why they don't just shuffle some papers and not suck, but I guess since their one body govt sucks that is why they don't de-suck themselves.

You want more? :)

>>13610564

The oldest known church right now was discovered in Armenia and is dated to be from the 4th century.

I guess this is when you move the field goal, right?

There are also partial copies of the bible dated back to 33AD. Go ahead, argue that it's 100 AD or whatever, it's still older than 1,000 AD. I guess you will need to move the goal post again.

All of this nonsense you're spewing is akin to arguing for a belief in a flat earth. There is no flat earth and both Christianity and Judaism have lots of lots of artifacts dating prior to the 1,000 AD.

Go ahead, move the goal post. You Indians are so stupid.

>>13612071

that is darn interesting, but I still think its just standard multi-culture tunable, and thus light direct-able, candle-holder or oil lamp.

But it would make lots of sense it was dual purpose and an Educational Display.

it would also be perfectly reasonable that a nation now invaded and sacked by Roman would still have been learning Latin, just like today anyone worth a fuck in Mexico will try to learn English.

>>13612071

Please provide an ancient Roman example of text containing the letters J, U, or W.

>>13611969

yet in a region known for naturally preserving stuff, and with industry far more advanced than Egyptian due to Roman and other even post Roman inventions, nothing legit dating pre-1000AD exists in any of suppose new Muslim areas and many separate new Muslim nations that span region at least rivaling Rome itself. Muslims (at some point) assploded to Western Africa on the Atlantic, up into Spain, to what is Pakistan today, and Iran and Saudi peninsula.

Nothing nowhere until after 1000AD. Why?

Stuff exists for Alexander the Great, and he was flash in the pan and always on the move. Muslim seem mostly natural Home Boys (unless actual camel jockeys) how like to live in big heavy stone dwellings in well settled towns for 1000yrs and 100 generations in same home address.

>>13612178

besides a guy maybe getting a bath, what indicates this is this Clovis guy and what indicates its Christian baptism if its a baptism?

Most importantly, WTF is in the rest of the out of frame item, and what proves this dates prior to 1000AD?

Did you know baptism is yet another very ancient practice, that Christians have now "embrace and extend", common among various pagans including Egypt long before Rome was even founded?

https://www.hope-of-israel.org/baptismalregen.html

>>13612279

PS-and WTF is up with what looks like a diving bird, maybe with something in or coming out of its mouth???

Some meme about how birds bring their young food, and how does that factor in???

>>13612240

>nothing legit dating pre-1000AD exists

wtf is this supposed to mean?

years were counted year by year since the prophet left for Madina until we're in year 1446 right now.

here's a coin in 164 muslim dating. 8th century AD.

>Margin: [ ]

>In the name of God, this dinar was struck in the year 164

>https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/457626

>>13612218

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpunct

didn't they also use "&" as a quazi letter or was that later English.

And what about "AE" slammed together and a couple other "funnies". IIRC there was a couple of actually Greek letters they'd use as letter/punctuation/special meaning.

>>13612313

& was a shorthand for "et cetera" developed by Cicero for transcribing court cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes

Æ doesn't show up until the Middle Ages.

>>13610564

Christ is king

>>13612312

>>nothing legit dating pre-1000AD exists

>

>wtf is this supposed to mean?

I mean of course by current Western years.

So no Muslim stuff until Muslim year 300 or whenever.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/457626

Very interesting, but a few questions. If 1234567890 are Arabic, where can I read those for the date on this coin?

IIRC I did hear on "Pawn Stars" that while dates on old coins often mean Date Minted, they also often mean some event from a while before when they were minted, like the date of some authorization, which itself as we know could be somewhat fictional. Like some pub or brand might self-label "Founded in 1832" when they just popped up or bought a defunct name. IIRC "Tiffany Jewelry". Someone made a bundle recognizing the defunct brand name could be worth money and bought and flipped it. My MBA buddy was telling me to think of similar brands he could maybe flip for quick cash.

Have these coins been Hard Science material dated? Does impurities match up real good with what they supposed to be? Are the inscriptions "couldn't be other than Islam" or is it kinda of generic "pray and respect", and maybe like much of Bible re-used when Koran was put together?

>>13612395

>If 1234567890 are Arabic, where can I read those for the date on this coin?

it's written in words

>IIRC I did hear on "Pawn Stars" that while dates on old coins often mean Date Minted, they also often mean some event from a while before when they were minted

it says the year in which it was minted

>Have these coins been Hard Science material dated?

idk and it's not my problem.

>Are the inscriptions "couldn't be other than Islam" or is it

it says the shahada (there is no God but Allah) on one side and Mohammad is God's messenger on the other.

stick to the lost 1000 years (more like 700 but whatever) of history theory. that one is extremely convincing.

>>13612431

still interesting, how many similar Islamic coins are around and what sort of discovery stories?

making fake "old coins" has been around so long there are fakes that are now legit at least more valuable due to real age.

I do remember once on Pawn Stars a coin was IIRC of 1600s Spanish new world markings but Rick's expert determined it had been cast probably about 1880, out of real but 14 carrot gold, not 24 or WTF they stole from Indians, where as real 1600 coins were stuck with hammer device.

Being as its again very "Lonely" I'd really have to double down on Hard Science dating. Forget what it says and tell me at what date the material was mined and formed, and mined from where and how.

>>13612477

if Muslims are fully green-lit to at least clearly proclaim Mohammad stuff why is their no such stuff on any buildings that are stuck in the ground that can be clearly dated, like the untold tons of Egyptian stuff with still clearly readable paintings and tile pics from many thousands of years prior?

AFAIK even though Muslim lands have been sometimes invaded by non-Muslims, there has never been claims (post Crusade maybe, but that was only small area) Western invaders destroying Muslim stuff.

>>13612398

kys kike

>>13612477

>>13612534

you clearly said in the OP to give you an artifact then you'll refute it.

i'm not seeing any refuting just a bunch of questions that can be found with a simple google search.

there are a lot of coins and they have been analyzed and they do know where did they come from due to differing elements percentages.

here is an article about them.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/sources-of-early-islamic-silver-lead-isotope-analysis-of-dirhams/853EB2CBE002FE8ECFF7FF142D8CBB20#article

you're just spouting bullshit and when given proof, you just ask for further proof despite claiming that you will debunk the given artifacts.

>>13612681

thx, very interesting and I'll have to look into the Cambridge stuff.

TBH, I haven't much looked into Muslim side of things. Is it ONLY coins that can be dated pre-1000AD?

If so what are the mainstream theories if any for the complete lack of more stationary artifacts, from paintings on walls to uncovered graves or treasure, or just garbage dumps, with clearly Muslim stuff?

>>13612857

On one hand, at first glance, the Cambridge chem etc dating including cross checking with mine locations sounds pretty good.

On the other, I'm forcing myself to be cautious because people with college degrees in Chem put out studies that claim to refute the Holocaust Deniers.

>>13612857

>still asking for proof instead looking up shit himself to refute like he said he would

you're a giant lying faggot.

>A Qur’an manuscript held by the University of Birmingham has been placed among the oldest in the world thanks to modern scientific methods.

>Radiocarbon analysis has dated the parchment on which the text is written to the period between AD 568 and 645 with 95.4% accuracy.

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news-archive/2015/birmingham-quran-manuscript-dated-among-the-oldest-in-the-world

>The three skeletons unearthed at Nimes show indications of Islamic burial rites and are thought to date to the eighth century AD.

>A team used DNA, radiocarbon dating and archaeological analysis to show the individuals may have been North African soldiers from a brief occupation of southern France by an Islamic army.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35660488

you can find many mosques built in the 8th century.

>the Umayyad mosque in Damascus

>the Umayyad mosque in Cordoba

There is really no way to be certain about which year we're living in or which year past events happened in, except by using astronomy. Our current chronology was created with reference to Ptolemy's Almaghest, a compendium of astronomical observations going back to ancient times which had been compiled. Eclipses and other astronomical phenomena which made it into various historical accounts were then used to calibrate the dates of happenings and thus, history was established.

However, astronomy also allows you to use the heavens as a clock and by portraying the zodiac in a certain configuration, an unambiguous date can be forever recorded in a way that can be read by anybody who knows the trick. Ancient people knew about this trick so we can date certain items pretty reliably. This information was obviously known by the most ancient people, the zodiac is universal.

Astronmers who have no idea that history has been tampered with have independently found problems with our current historical dating. They now explain this by making up what-ifs like, the moon had a wobble but it fixed itself, the earth sped up and slowed down in its rotaton or the orbit changed substantially enough that ancient people noticed but then it changed back, etc. Ptolemy's Almaghest is currently edited from many manuscripts and not all agree. Some of the dates of observation in the currently accepted editions show evidence of mathematical interpolation of certain observations, but with a unique clue that they were 'curve fitted' - an error in calculation which was only in use for a few years before being debunked and reworked was clearly used to calculate these positions.

As far as carbon dating goes, it's in way worse shape than astronomical observation. They find something in a certain strata in a certain area then submit it to a carbon 14 test which shows such and such a level of decay, but carbon leeches out of things, into things, etc. and the guy who invented carbon dating has debunked its use by the archaeological community in TWO comprehensive papers. It should be used only date finds found in a specific context against each other, because carbon-14 in artifacts and naturally in the ground varies a lot over even small areas. In his one paper he carbon-14 dated clams dug out of shale dated to tens of milion years ago, versus live clams collected from San Francisco's bayshore, and the live ones often showed up as being OLDER. It heckin' SOYENCE to believe in carbon dating.

>>13610564

>Let's lay down some ground rules

1- OP is a faggot

That is all. Welcome to the chans, noob, make sure you do all your homework this weekend

>>13613199

Sir Issac Newton wrote a WHOLE BOOK wherein he proved that history is fake. It's a good read actually.

>>13611342

>1946 "World History"

charity bin autodidac

don't miss those clock repair books

>>13610564

Aren't there records of personal correspondence between Roman officials talking about it? Doesn't that immediately invalidate the premise of your thread? Also, you've got a bunch of old churches older than a thousand years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_church_buildings

>>13613307

Christians made it all the way to Britain and even Ireland long before Rome fell. This led to a unique insular Christian Church which kinda held civilization together there after the Roman Empire collapsed in the West. Bede is a great read about this. Modern historians go to great pains to debunk the 'theory' of Joseph of Arimathea bringing Christianity to the Celts and others, but all the early Fathers talk about his works, I'll believe them.

Mosques take the exact same form as older temples from pre-Islamic Arabia, cubical temples often featuring a dome. This design was standardized long before the Greeks arrived or even existed. You can still find many mosques with this antique design in use today in the hinterlands. It's likely many are simply reused old temples themselves.

>>13613287

i doubt i'll be able to understand his writing but it's good to know that he also believed it's fake and gay.

>>13610564

jesus existed because we have billion christians and bible and expert historians. can they all be wrong?

>>13610626

I'd still fuck

>>13612178

Clovis was king of the francs, this was pre 1000 ad, he was Christian trust me, so was Rollo, original duke of normandy, pre 1000 ad, he had to get baptized to claim his position by the King of France at the time.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Rollo_of_Normandy/

>>13612973

good stuff :)

As far as Cambridge, I'd need them to allow themselves to be Double Blind tested and/or let someone else work the test tubes and magic black boxes. Among other things, we just got through Covid-19 with PCR The Science that was said to be 6,000,000% accurate. But an African leader did a double blind and they said his mango and other fruit were suffering from Covid-19. Then he and 4 other Vaxx resisting Turd World leaders all died of strange stuff, one after the other.

"Qur’an manuscript held by the University of Birmingham". Nice that unlike the many Bible frags they allow Carbon-14. But others here have posted that Carbon-14 has lots of problems when trying to date individual lonely items. But I've got similar questions as with Bible frags. I'd need a direct translation to check if its like Bible frags maybe generic stuff later re-used to make Koran. The tone of this one Uni about how wonderful "Diversity" is tells me someone needs to be able to skeptically check their work and "duplicate their results" as they say in The Science. Scientific fraud an archeology of Abrahamic religions is the default normal practice, not exception.

"Nimes show indications of Islamic burial rites". Don't be coy. WTF "indications", and what "rites"? Stuff that is basically same as lots of other people from that region used?

"A team used DNA, radiocarbon dating and archaeological analysis to show the individuals may have been North African soldiers "

"may have been". Yeah, Roman was in North Africa and Romans allowed people to travel and its short hop from North Africa to Southern France. How do I know they weren't just Mercs or farm labor, and nothing Islamic about anything?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35660488

you can find many mosques built in the 8th century.

>the Umayyad mosque in Damascus

>the Umayyad mosque in Cordoba

Yes, but AFAIK all the existing Islamic stuff will be said to have been "later remodeled" even if the building pre-dates 1000AD. The big dome church in Rome was built as a pagan Roman temple. Sure 300 or 1000yrs is pretty long time to go without a make-over for an active building and religion but AFAIK there is a complete lack of existing clearly Islamic structure. I'd like to see something like clearly Islamic script carved into stones that maybe were later covered but can be shown or even well assumed to have been in place pre-1000AD. Actual cultures have tons of that sort of stuff.

Why can I question Islam, both West and East post Roman Empire Christian Empires, Judaism for even existing pre-1000AD, but not for instance Mayan, Aztec, Inca and few dozen Oriental empires and even some Negro cultures?

>>13613593

Nah it's a general audience book, you don't have to invent modern physics to understand it. Long story short he says at least 500 years need to be whacked off the 'year number' but it could go as high as 800 or 1300.

>>13613900

>"Nimes show indications of Islamic burial rites". Don't be coy. WTF "indications", and what "rites"?

do you even read the articles people link?

why do i have to spoonfeed you everything if you've stated in the OP that YOU will be doing the refuting?

>In each of the three graves, the bodies were placed on their right-hand sides facing south-east - in the direction of Mecca. The way the burial pit was dug, with a lateral niche closed off by slabs or stones also corresponds to a traditional Islamic burial practice.

why do you go on and on and on with questions and refuse to look up anything?

is your ultimate goal just to waste everyone's time with shitty posts?

did you even look up the calendar? you think it's some bullshit timeline concocted in the 17th century like the Georgian one?

i'll have you know that there are many castles to be found if you bothered to type "8th century muslim buildings" on a search engine.

and i'll also have you know that there are many Qur'anic manuscripts discovered over the years in different places with many dating techniques used on them.

but you asked specifically for muh carbon dating and muh HARD SCIENCE so i gave you that. EVEN THOUGH YOU SAID YOU WILL BE DOING THE DEBUNKING.

and you have yet to debunk anything.

>>13613909

i tried listening to an old book about the american civil war but the ye olde/Shakespearean/whatever its called English filtered me.

i had to relisten intently to parse out what was being said properly. the whole sentences structure is hard.

>he says at least 500 years need to be whacked off the 'year number' but it could go as high as 800 or 1300.

neat. just like the article

The first fucking crusade which took place in the 11th century was in response to hundreds of years of muslims raiding and attacking Europe.

>>13611916

I have another idea, that could have been them carrying a gold bird statue, and Jews later carved it down into a Menorah. Same as the Sphinx started as a lion and was carved down to a king's face later to make him more famous.

>>13613300

>>>13611342 (You)

>

>>1946 "World History"

>

>charity bin autodidac

I find it interesting it….wait for it….here is cums….

Doesn't mention anything that even could be our "most documented event in history", THE Holocaust(tm). And it is a fairly Jew centric book. It does say RESTRICTIONS on Jews prior to WW2 caused much public opinion problems in rest of the West for Germany.

It DOES claim that shortly after WW2, somewhere in Poland, "40 Jews were killed" I guess they mean by the Govt. Probably 100 Americans were being whacked by the Mob in NYC alone, every month, during same time, and WTF knows WTF was going on in Mexico City.

My 1958 World Book said Dept of Labor is looking for jobs for 1.7 American farmworkers displaced by automation. That was four years after Operation Wetback, really more like a year after do to publishing lags. It also matter o'factly states Mexicans are dumb and lazy due to warm climate.

It also treats "God" as an established fact and he "first revealed himself to the Jews".

Also, while its got IIRC over 3 pages on finer points of fusing air-dropped bombs on factories VS bunkers VS tanks VS troops VS ships of various types (this publication was geared to Jr High School kids!), it also has zip on The Holocaust(tm).

>>13613973

>i tried listening to an old book about the american civil war but the ye olde/Shakespearean/whatever its called English filtered me

Open your mind, English is just a magic blend of German and other languages.

>>13613998

anon…

take a look at my flag

>>13613300

>don't miss those clock repair books

I legit might want one.

I'm working on a few inventions (robotics etc, fancy self balancing doors) that might use clock type springs, as well as those clock type gears the regulate movement to one tooth at a time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166250256965?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1b2pbqK6_T4y2DcARV8Cixw16&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=166250256965&targetid=4580702894586630&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418640321&mkgroupid=1233652283797640&rlsatarget=pla-4580702894586630&abcId=9300602&merchantid=51291

>>13613973

>i tried listening to an old book about the american civil war but the ye olde/Shakespearean/whatever its called English filtered me

Open your mind, English is just a magic blend of German and other languages.>>13614001

I can't see any flags. But flags mean nothing anyway, anybody can appear to be from anywhere.

What is your first language? I can help you understand stuff you know.

I have another reason to not like Jesus. I won't make a new thread, ill just throw it in here, since it is tangentially related, and spam is bad.

In the story where he says the Pharisees are corrupt for emphasizing the importance of formal greetings and headdresses in the market place. Afterwords, Jesus eats lunch at a Pharisee's house. Jesus does not receive the formal greeting of a drop of oil for his head. Probably because he famously yelled at all the other rabbis for doing formal greetings. But he's still pissed, so he brings in a prostitute, and has her kiss his feet, cry on them, and dry them with her hair, and use her expensive perfume to oil them. Read that again. Jesus is a wealthy, popular, Jewish media influence, who has enough power to decide weather women caught committing sex crimes are executed or not. And this filthy rich Jew, Jesus, has a literal prostitute come in and kiss his feet clean. A rich jew gets foot fetish service from a prostitute in front of another rich jew, and he brags that he doesn't even have to pay, because he's forgiving her sins, which in the context of Jesus having prevented one woman from being stoned, means he's been making this lady suck the toe jam off his feet with her mouth in exchange for not getting executed. It's like Harvey Weinstein on steroids. Here's the story verbatim from a Bible website, inb4 you keep demanding specific translations so specific i have to learn Koine Greeke to understand them.

Luke 7:37-47

"One of the Pharisees asked him over for a meal. He went to the Pharisee’s house and sat down at the dinner table. Just then a woman of the village, the town harlot, having learned that Jesus was a guest in the home of the Pharisee, came with a bottle of very expensive perfume and stood at his feet, weeping, raining tears on his feet. Letting down her hair, she dried his feet, kissed them, and anointed them with the perfume. When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man was the prophet I thought he was, he would have known what kind of woman this is who is falling all over him.” Jesus said to him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.” “Oh? Tell me.” “Two men were in debt to a banker. One owed five hundred silver pieces, the other fifty. Neither of them could pay up, and so the banker canceled both debts. Which of the two would be more grateful?” Simon answered, “I suppose the one who was forgiven the most.” “That’s right,” said Jesus. Then turning to the woman, but speaking to Simon, he said, “Do you see this woman? I came to your home; you provided no water for my feet, but she rained tears on my feet and dried them with her hair. You gave me no greeting, but from the time I arrived she hasn’t quit kissing my feet. You provided nothing for freshening up, but she has soothed my feet with perfume. Impressive, isn’t it? She was forgiven many, many sins, and so she is very, very grateful. If the forgiveness is minimal, the gratitude is minimal.”

>>13613978

Really? shouldn't there be some still surviving SOMETHING about all those raids on fairly literate and interconnected European govts?

Something showing "enemy invaders" with a clearly Islamic flag? Crude map showing Christian VS Muslim line of control?

>>13614047

>i can't see any flags

oh. anons were talking about how to enable them in another thread but i ignored the discussion because i can see them.

>What is your first language?

Arabic.

>I can help you understand stuff you know.

thanks but it's not that i don't understand at all. it's just hard to understand at first glance. the closest example i could give was Shakespearean writing. it's high level English that one just has to read or listen to enough of to be able to digest it without a re-read/listen.

i'm not sure it's worth the effort of trying to get good at it.

>>13614062

>I'm not hearing about any artifacts or even pattern of stones of some clearly Islamic shape.

again, i have to spoonfeed while you go on and on and on and on asking questions that can be found by looking shit up.

the whole Muslim schtick is burying without splendor or glamor.

we don't bury things with the dead or especially mark the graves or make them grand.

the have to be buried on their right side facing Mecca. the same destination we pray to.

>>13614073

>Shouldn't there be something

There is

>REEE THAT DON'T COUNT

Nobody cares nigger.

>>13614001

I don't see flags for whatever reason.

>>13614129

I will help.

>>13611546

The Western Empire was going to shit with the Barbarian invasions/migrations and terrible Emperor after terrible Emperor. Rome was having problems securing their boarder between Persia and Germania as far back as Caesar. One of the major reasons the capital was moved to the East was because of Romes propensity toward political upheaval and its distance from the frontier lands of the Empire, making managing it difficult. Another reason was to get the administrative state as far away from the Germans as possible. This is partially why Diocletian formed the Tetrarchy, but after his death the 4 factions predictably tried to take the whole of it for themselves.

>>13614284

Flags only partially work here sometimes. You can hover the mouse over where the flag is supposed to be and it will tell you what the country is when it's not working.

>>13614293

You'll know it's me even if there isn't a flag. I promise. And likewise.

European languages are closely related to Aramaic vernacular in many ways in which also Arabic is, you literally just have to open your mind. Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew, and modern Hebrew are all cognate.

>>13614206

please present artifacts of Holy Roman or Byz Empires prior 1000AD that clearly indicate EITHER the Europeans being Christian or the Enemy being Islamic.

Writing, pics, trinkets, maps….anything.

I'm not saying stuff like the direction a guy is laying in a low quality grave along with a few natural rocks doesn't mean ANYTHING, but in total absence of higher level artifacts by advanced semi-industrial Empire well known for cranking out fine objects you gotta ask "WTF?"

Its like I'm asking for proof the Chevy factory existed and you can't even show me a newspaper from the week it opened, or pics of crates with shipping labels saying "corvette headlights", you just show me some tire ruts in a muddy field and tell me they mostly match known GM cars by width.

Meanwhile, over in China….

https://www.scmp.com/news/people-culture/social-welfare/article/3148342/treasure-trove-artefacts-revealed-one-worlds

Not just artifacts but big GOLD artifacts being found. Not sure if we'd call it exactly 'religious' but seems to be lots of effort into some abstract ideas.

>>13611012

yeah, I’d go with old astrological observations with known dates and compare by run the simulation on a computer. if anything is working like a clockwork, that’s the planetary system, can’t fudge that

>>13614445

GOLD artifacts can't really be dated.

>>13614796

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/sources-of-early-islamic-silver-lead-isotope-analysis-of-dirhams/853EB2CBE002FE8ECFF7FF142D8CBB20#article

these guys claim to be now able to date silver, or at least Islamic silver coins.

But like I said before, I'd need to test their testing.

Sounds like what they do for silver could work for gold.

But I think the Chinese golden mask was dated as much from were it was just dug up from. That tends to be a problem with coins that just wander in the front door of a pawn shop from WTF knows.

Not finding clearly religious artifacts from long buried sites is one of my key points. It SHOULD be common to find clearly Christian or Muslim stuff that has been buried from 700AD to 1000AD, just like there is all sorts of Mayan sites still untouched and waiting for investigation, and all sorts of Hard Science could prove their age.

>>13612569

>tp

>tf

hmmm…

>>13614064

You make it sound as if the harlot who kisses Jesus' feet, didn't have the free will to do so of her own volition. Jesus didn't make her do it.

And the oil thing is not a formal greeting, it's an anointing of a king for example. Which was appropriate considering who Jesus is or was to them/us. And Jesus wasn't rich if we are to believe the Bible.

>>13614902

They find a stick and say this is 2000 years old, and then they use the c14 levels of the stick to say how old artifacts are.

Only Scandinavia and perhaps the Bongs use uncalibrated c14, while the rest use calibrated c14 where the c14 levels of known objects are used for the calibration.

>>13610626

Ah! A French!

>>13616194

It still doesn't work, the calibration is only really accurate for a certain context. Most places won't even attempt the process without a guess date either lol.

>>13616529

>It still doesn't work

I can buy that, but it's a way harder sell than questioning calibrated c-14 dates.

>>13616535

I'm going by the two papers written by the guy who invented the process, both of which are reproduced in the first book of History: Fiction or Science. I can buy that it's useful to relatively date finds in the same context though I do doubt how effective it is otherwise because of the details in the paper. Just rain leeching carbon in and out alone makes it dodgy.

>>13616550

> I can buy that it's useful to relatively date finds in the same context though

I think it's given archeology a false authority by pretending to be a hard science.

It also fucked up dendro, since c14 was used to date the wood used to make the standards.

N-Europe looks to have good dendro, probably because we don't have the Roman empire that everybody agree existed 2000 years ago.

Roman coins are found in Viking graves here, while they don't exist in what is called the pre-Roman Iron age that existed at the same time as the Roman empire.

>>13616567

>It also fucked up dendro, since c14 was used to date the wood used to make the standards.

Yeah this is an issue Fomenko tackles in his book as well.

They've found three bronze Roman coins on Oak Island too. I figure the 'Iron-age' Norse-Germanic cultures, the Vikings, and the Hanseatic League were all the same organization more or less, and that the entire period is mere hundreds of years long instead of two thousand.

The whole question of hisotry is so fascinating, the hidden hand has been quite active at concealing and smashing many things and muddling the rest up with soyience.

I must say this board is much comfier than 4chan, with no real janny nobody clears away older threads and we can continue them at our leisure rather than them being slid right off the catalog by the usual spam.

OP turned out to be a numbskull but the thread is good despite that.

>>13616651

I started to read up on local history and the history of shipping when I started to doubt the chronology.

What I found to be the case was that Scandinavian history is roughly correct because it fits with archeology and surviving architecture.

We'll never know if Scandinavian history is correct as in the kings and the people mentioned and such, but the technological level described looks to be correct. When they found the first Viking ships, they fit the descriptions in the Sagas, and ditto for later ships in later sources.

As for the Scandinavian history of shipping, it's complete. Norway alone have over 200k wreaks from the simple logboat to all the evolutionary stages until the log became the keel of the Viking ship.

That Scandinavia where we find English flint, Cornish bronze and objects similar to Mycene Greece were many centuries behind the rest of Europe, like we got sails 800 years after the Romans and Greeks is just not credible.

>. I figure the 'Iron-age' Norse-Germanic cultures, the Vikings, and the Hanseatic League were all the same organization more or less

I'm pretty sure they are not from language alone.

The Hanseatic league spoke low German and Nordics don't, and we know both old norse and saxon(old Dutch), so they were not the same languages either.

> that the entire period is mere hundreds of years long instead of two thousand.

I doubt that.

I think history is mostly correct as in no extra years or so until 1000 AD around the North Sea.

As for the rest of the world, I don't know.

Norway have 800 year old wooden buildings based on dendro, and that fits with how historical sources say building looked, and then you have all the old churches, where each generation has done something, and where you can date them by how they were built.

>>13616840

I found a BOOK that's in Middle German where the guy describes the arrival of the LATINS and then lists them off and they're a bunch of French, with some smaller number of Spanish and Portugese.

I also looked at old maps and I believe there was a Greco-Roman colony in North America called Arcadia which I believe was the same thing as Acadia. In fact both are spelled each way sometimes, which is curious. And both experienced nearly the same 'fall.'

1800 years is missing, 1100 years is missing, and 5-600 years is missing and everything needs to be collapsed into a much shorter chronology. Then everything makes much more sense - 'ancient' Rome was no more than 1000 years ago and some stuff like ancient Egypt and Sumeria were more like, 500-800 years before Rome and not thousands. I'm quite convinced of all this now.

>>13616818

>I'm thinking it would be hard to gauge levels of Fenestration a piece of wood has undergone during its last 1000+ years, and that could be related to Fenestration of surrounding dirt.

If you take a thick bog oak log, then you should see differences between the center of the log and the sides that has been in contact with dirt.

The main problems with c-14 is that it's a business where labs get money for c-14 dating, so nobody is interested in how unreliable it is.

Dendro will become accurate as they constantly find new old trees AND it's something amateurs are doing, and that will give us the answer to how accurate c-14 is in the future.

>>13616860

Fred Leuchter didn't tell the Lab were the samples were from, much less the intent of the testing.

Later, after some dust had settled, the Lab said "If only he'd given us that info the results would've been different". I think the Lab was TRYING to say some additional factors would been considered to do better testing, but LOL.

I wonder if Labs balk at doing "blind" tests or give such a wide range or other hedging its basically useless.

>>13616854

>1800 years is missing, 1100 years is missing, and 5-600 years is missing and everything needs to be collapsed into a much shorter chronology.

I don't buy that the horse was evolved to grow big enough to carry an armored knight three times independently, so I think that the Greek, Roman and Frankish knights were contemporary, but I don't buy that all the change we see among domestic animals was done in a few centuries.

The first horses we find in Norway was too small to be ridden by a grown man, and it took many centuries before they were big enough for an armored knight. It's not like they understood selective breeding in the beginning either.

>>13616874

>Later, after some dust had settled, the Lab said "If only he'd given us that info the results would've been different"

They used calibrated c-14, so the lab is correct from their point of view.

It might have become so advanced that they calibrate down to different materials to get the "correct result". If a Lab get artifacts from a Roman site, then the results better come back with a date that fits if they want more work.

>>13616886

Fred wasn't testing for Carbon-14 or wood age.

He was testing for Zyklon-B.

While his tests weren't perfect, they were plenty good to rekt the official story.

Its like if you say the guy fell off a 100ft tall building, and some Surveyor says "to be correct, that building is actually only 97ft tall, because we measure from this point on the ground".

>>13616894

The Occult Symbology of the Chi Rho Symbol

1. The curved section of the letter rho visually resembles a sickle / curved sword and represents the weapon of the Sicarii.

2. The four arms of the letter chi plus the base of the letter rho visually resemble five hammers and represent the five Maccabee brothers.

>>13616887

>don't they got DNA history, especially for horses, pretty well sorted.

Yes. I looked into domestic animals for this reason.

The oldest breeds are found in places like Norway. It's because of the isolation they say, but then old Norwegian breeds should have a low genetic diversity if that was the whole story.

>But I'm pretty sure Selective Breeding and Eugenics is pre-historic.

I think so as well, but I don't expect that they were good at it in the beginning.

Chi Rho was in use since at least 200+BC and just means "the anointed one".

I've no doubt both Jesus and Islam are Jewish creations, but why lack of artifacts?

I'm willing to buy that Jews were quietly laying lots of ground work prior to 1000AD.

Maybe it was kinda like how politicians are pro-Israel. You will see them with Israeli flags in The Capital, but I bet you wont see that at their office in their home districts, or at any event in their home district.

Were all these pre-1000AD kings legit "Christian" but always hiding their treason? Seems likely.

>>13616875

>I don't buy that the horse was evolved to grow big enough to carry an armored knight three times independently,

Chargers for full-plate armored knights were derived from draft horses, not Arabian-types which were preferred for actual combat on extended campaigns and because they're much smarter and more useful. The bulk of horse cavalry was not ever heavy.

> I don't buy that all the change we see among domestic animals was done in a few centuries.

They've re-created all the conformal features of heritage breeds which went extinct in the 20th century, all kinds of breeds. Dog and cat breeds can be established in a person's lifetime. Look at those little weiner kitties they have now. They are conformal at this point - when they started out with breeding them many would have either the front or rear legs short, but the other normal. Or all withered. But ultra-short flipper kitties are now in vogue in asia. No shit, they are breeding them for conformance. 3" legs, so their bellies JUST clear the floor, and they are long hairs too. The effect is not unlike a cross breed of a cat and a tribble.

>>13616903

>Chi Rho was in use since at least 200+BC and just means "the anointed one".

No! The chi-rho symbol was invented by the half-Jewish Roman emperor Constantine (his mother was Jewish).

And Constantine ordered his stone cutters to hide a Sicarii sickle and a Maccabee hammer in the chi-rho symbol. I am literally the first person in the history of the world to notice this and figure it out.

>>13616895

I knew this, but I just assumed he'd done it on wood as well.

It was Germar Rudolf that convinced me, or more the reaction from the German regime.

I'm not sure I would have read about the holohoax if I could have done it again, since it sent me down a rabbit hole where I had to be a self employed carpenter to stay sane. Nobody cares what the carpenter say as long as you do good work. After a few years you come over customers that are red pilled and then you get a customer for life, so it's not that bad.

Small horses were used for draft purposes and bred to be as compact as possible for that purpose, you wouldn't want to feed a bigger animal than you need to yoke to plow or haul a cart or packs. Also smaller horse breeds are hardier for winter. It is also possible that the first horses which came to the Norse lands came by way of Britain - and we know that they were bred there for mining so they were quite short. It's quite probable that the Phoenecians brought them there because they used to operate Britain as a prison colony slash tin mine WAY before the Celts ever got there.

>>13616914

Correction: FIVE Maccabee hammers, representing the five Maccabee brothers.

>>13616914

Interesting…

>>13616914

LOL, sounds like near perfect match for other Jewish "adopt other's memes and pretend its yours" done for The Cross, Muslim moon, etc.

I'll dig up pre-200BC Chi Ro later.

But as I've said before, it seems to refer to Emperor, not Jesus or "fish", at time when they started calling themselves demi-gods.

>>13616914

emperor Constantine existed?

IDK, but I do understand that Rome is the eternal

city as far as it is Constantinople and not what we call Rome today.

Istanbul = I-Stan-Bul = Con-stantin-ople = the ever standing city. or the constant city.

The Normans spoke Latin before they took parts of Italy and while they started loyal to Constantinople, they ended loyal to the Pope, so I suspect that they made a copy of Roman history on their own territory, and then the Byzantines made their own changes, and that fucked up history before 1000ad.

>>13616917

>Small horses were used for draft purposes

Yes.

The Vikings started to use horses for ploughing as well. A horse can plough the whole day as long as it's fed grain, but oxen need to chew chud and eat grass. A short Nordic summer meant that it paid off to make the change before the rest of Europe. Unless the horse was worked it was left to find their own food until modern times in Northern Norway, and since all the Norwegian breeds can survive on their own in Nature, it was probably done for most of the year in the rest of Norway as well.

That a horse only cost the farmer grain when it was worked sort of makes you feed argument less important than having the size where it lives well on it's own. That a farm in Scandinavia could have many horses without having to feed them for most of the year is probably also part of the explanation to why nordics started to use horse for ploughing.

>It's quite probable that the Phoenecians brought

And they didn't bring us sails or any leap in boat technology?

We find mycene bronze artifacts in Denmark, Sweden and Norway at the same time as the log boat has evolved into a primitive keel with sewn together boards as hull that was paddled like canoe. Replicas has been shown to be seaworthy in calm waters, so you could probably paddle to Greece using the Easter way the Viking used centuries or a millennia later.

Norway was never the most advanced of the north sea nations if we disregard boat building, but England, Denmark and the low countries has been too advanced compared to the rest of the world for the last millennia, for them to have been primitives in the time before that.

It's far more probable that history of the Mediterranean has been made artificially long.

>>13616974

>And they didn't bring us sails or any leap in boat technology?

They ARRIVED in like 1200-1500 BC or before. It's quite possible the norse learned to sail from them.

>>13617101

>It's quite possible the norse learned to sail from them.

It's not, if you know the evolution of sails. It's didn't start as a mast, but that you used one oar as the mast and the other as a rudder. From there the mast slowly become a permanent feature on larger ships.

And besides, it's no break in the evolution from the logboat to the Viking ship, so nobody came here and taught us anything.

The area were the Phoenicans come don't have any of the evolutionary stages before they built huge ships, and they taught us and not visa versa?

How did the Phoenicans get tar so their ships, rigs and sails did not rot, since I have seen anybody that find that question interesting?

>>13617445

one of the Missing Dark Ages guys says Viking ships are nearly same as Roman cargo ships, and ditto with Viking VS Roman swords, and it sure seems odd that time seemed to stand still in what should've been fast evolving competitive tech.

I'm not seeing any hard proof Phoenicians were ever in British Isles, except for some language and literature, but those can travel piece meal like game of tag. Sure its likely they at least visited, but I'm not seeing any proof of anything more.

>>13617445

Viking longships look suspiciously identical to craft you find on the Med long, long before such a thing as a Viking existed.

>>13610564

>Lust provoking image

SEX WITH ANKHA

SEX WITH ANKHA

>>13610564

>Nothing Christian, Muslim or Jewish exists older than 1000AD

Papyrus 104 contains part of the gospel of Matthew. Is has been dated to the 2nd century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_104

>>13618468

could just be Cohencidence. Eskimo double bow is about securing the skin cover.

That Irish monk that visited USA was on skin boat. Not sure about Viking double bows were about.

Could be just "great minds think alike".

>>13618466

Yeah. It's strange that we find possible derivatives of the Hjortspring canoe in the USA

>>13618481

>Not sure about Viking double bows were about.

They are not Viking, but centuries before, and I'll try to explain it by explaining the evolution of the Hjortspring boat.

1. Hollowed out tree truk = logboat that is found all over the world.

2. The tree trunk was partially split and you placed a fire in the split so you could bend the sides to get a logboat with higher sides.

3. The higher sides needed support so they started to put in spans for support.

4. Once they had spans they could sew boards to the top to make a bigger boat.

5. The Hjortspring boat where the logboat has become the keel and bottom, while you have another split log for the rail. This boat is thus made from two trunks and boards for the sides. (It might have been the same tree)

I don't know what all the boat parts are called in English, so that might be wrong.

My guess is that Nordics needed to transport domestic animals in their boats, so we don't find many that use animal skin as hull.

>>13618468

The injuns were still in the Bronze age when Vikings arrived.

You need steel to build a Viking ship, while the Hjortspring boat can be built with bronze tools.

>>13618479

> Is has been dated to the 2nd century.

And they used calibrated c14?

>>13618499

Not sure, but the dating is uncontroversial. Everyone agrees that it is from 100-200 AD.

>>13618507

what method? I didn't see on the wiki. nor provenance.

>>13618493

Injuns were still early neolithic. Aztecs and Inca were making jewelry out of gold and silver and shiny stones, but no moving parts even out of wood or stone.

North American Injuns were wowed by cheap glass beads.

Incas kept some animals for food and fur, and might have used llamas as pack animals but others say that only happened after Spics taught them.

>>13618526

oh, I guess Injuns did have some metal working including a big copper mine in USA.

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/46810/did-any-native-americans-make-tomahawks-from-metal

>>13618507

>Everyone agrees

Is not really a sound scientific argument.

>North American Injuns were wowed by cheap glass beads.¨

Roman glass beads are the same as Viking glass beads btw.

Didn't the civilized injun tribes live in long houses similar to the Viking ones?

The civilized tribes disappeared pretty quick, so I think they were assimilated.

>>13618683

>>>13618507

>

>>Everyone agrees

>

>Is not really a sound scientific argument.

yep, I've noticed a "The Holocaust"(tm) level of eagerness to leap to calling stuff "proof positive" without good cause.

I'm hoping to write-up a summery of this thread soon, including some stuff I admit I can't YET fully debunk such as Muslim silver coins.

>>13610564

Radiocarbon dating is inherently flawed and strewn with contamination. The initial state of the object is unknown. Calibration curves (estimated in a way that cannot be verified at all) and whether or not they have been applied are a major factor as well. The way carbon decays is very real but our interpretation of it is not. Not to mention confirmation bias in practically every research project. In short, you are gay, and you believe gay and made up shit, and again especially the part about you being gay for making this thread.

>>13619193

I just remembered something wrong in Nordic history. We find Christian graves a few centuries before Christianity is supposed to have arrived in here. 800 AD instead 1000 AD.

Early Nordic Christianity don't look all the same as modern Christianity in the Sagas either.

We also get drips, like somebody complaining that Constantinople did not put on games like when Sigurd the Crusader visited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNR7m8tXxw

The Old Norwegian Rune poem and other sources say the Christ created the world.

>>13611538

>Yes, I think paganism was really just a lot of loose local folk stories rather than genuine religion like we see today with christianity, islam, judaism, etc.

Paganism pre the dark age (kali yuga) was a genuine religion because the gods would manifest themselves at the temple and speak to their followers. The kali yuga appears to have started about around 1200 BCE. It ended in 2012. It was not until the departure of the gods that false religions like christianity and islam could rise.

>>13611845

>There's no way they were unaware of what they were doing.

They burned it because they considered it to be heretical or pagan in nature and thus not good for people to read. Christianity is reform judaism for the goyim, and christians have destroyed 99% of the culture and knowledge from the antique because it was deemed pagan.

>>13611861

>Romans certainly used "The Cross" as standard….Standard Bearer,

The romans used the cross as a combined execution and torture device. The total amount of people crucified by romans must be well over 100 000. The rabbi was just one of them.

>>13611969

>we, Muslims, count our own years and we have counted over 1,400 years so far. and we do know that Christianity and Judaism are older.

The oldest calendar is the old slavic calendar which is up to about 7500 years now. The year zero is the year of peace between the devas and nagas.

>>13620043

>what clearly Jesus related artifacts makes them Christian?

No.

It's that they got a Christian burial.

>Christ will return on the last day from the east. and so when the bodies of Christians are buried. they're buried with the feet facing east. so that when Christ returns and their bodies rise from the grave.

The Heathen dead were oriented according to the landscape. If you were buried on a slope, then feet down and head up.

>where is the Crucifixion image on this?

Why do you assume that Christianity stayed the same?

It was Celtic Christianity that we find first in Norway, and then Byzantine Christianity before the Roman Catholics arrive.

I'm not sure that 1066 happened in 1066, but Celtic Christianity died along Harold Godwinson, after having beaten Harald Hardrada that was Byzantine before loosing to William and the Roman-Catholics.

>>13619603

>Christianity is reform judaism for the goyim

And Judaism is copy of the Gothic religion for the mixed race jews?

IDK, but it's silly by a Swede to not look at his own history with a critical view.

Swedish still have the vocabulary to decode that a Goth means a metal caster, and the Old gothic areas are still the metal centers in Sweden.

Once you figure out what Goth means, then you can do the same for God, as it means nothing more than the creator, the one that cast everything.

The Goths being inland Nordics specialized in making things that the coastal Nordics could export, so when they emigrated they created artisan cities, while the coastal Nordics used they advantage in shipping when they settled.

We don't know the Gothic mythology, but I think they had the Firegod Loki as the head, while Odin was the Devil.

In one of the Stave Churches in Norway, we find an inscription that this church was built to celebrate the peace between jews and heathens.

>>13620451

interdastin

why do we have flags when all the flags are fake and ghey

>>13620466

it helps build a persona inside your head

>>13620455

The Swedish and Danish kings had many wars over who was the rightful ruler of the Goths, and when it was time for peace again after a few centuries, then both just dumped everything about the Goths.

Many languages pronounce G differently depending on the vowel that follows it. Gothland in Sweden is written Gøtaland but pronounced with J(Y). Gud=God has a normal G. Gutt is a boy in Norwegian and is a diminutive of Goth. Jente is a grill, and is a feminine diminutive of Goth.

A Swedish boy is pojk, and a diminutive of a Bey, as is English boy, and you Russians know what a Boyar is. Jude doesn't mean a jew, but a man from Jutland, and Jutland is also Gothland.

Smiths, miners and artisans need a different religion than farmers that again need a different religion than seafarers. Odin was never called a god, since he wasn't a creator but rather a discoverer. Odin belonged to the Aces, while the farmers religion was a fertility based one with Frey and Freya as the head gods, and then we have the Jotuns of witch Loke was a member.

At the end of heathendom in Scandinavia the main religious focus was on wyrd(fate), and we find that concept again in Protestantism as predestination.

Fate is a cruel mistress and heathendom offers no redemtion, so I sort of understand the appeal of Christianity when it arrived from the British Isles.

>>13620466

Exactly. tell me which flag has loyalty to the Caucasian working class and that is the flag I will be loyal to

>>13620506

The one with davids star, blue and white. The true aryan race of humanity. לילה טוב

Christianity was the I AM doctrine veiled for the piscean age, specifically Jupiter and the Sun in Pisces. Islam was Venus in Pisces. For the aquarian age the I AM doctrine will be veiled under the guise of AI and other technological creations.

Jesus = Je suis = Jeshua = Yah Weh = Jove = Jupiter = Zeus = Deus = I AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZftML6pAv7E

>>13611477

Ok its three videos but do you got any thoughts on this?

Judaea Contra Rome, Rome Contra Judaea

https://www.bitchute.com/video/kL8OnNrs4W3p/

>>13620656

If history is way shorter, then this would be false.

>>13612279

>one of the most important figures in Wuropean history

>changed the entire course of human events

>”this Clovis guy”

Opinion discarded.

Clovis united the petty rulers and small kingdoms of France under one crown. He’s the first Merovingian King, with that dynasty lasting until the 9th century. Every decree written by the Merovingians (written by their scribes and bishops, since the kings were illiterate) invokes God or Christ.

>>13622930

>written by their scribes and bishops

And you are not skeptical at all?

>>13623329

>you're the one using random un-nammed "Mel Gibson WW1 movie" as a source, lol.

shits all over Ebay, mostly "antique Chinese"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/297222752974?_skw=candelabra+candle+holder+5+arm++brass+chinese&itmmeta=01JT546A49SK9CBCSF8FTHVDWT&hash=item4533db4ace:g:vd0AAeSwhN1n~-6m&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABEFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1dM%2BlDdGH33P2bfmgudyNilcdPrjgpd8AG8P1kwQv5ak4xoH%2BIslPn6XhCMs2pxAlx3S%2FHy4ya5VUcC7uxupJj2F1%2F4IcZAlpnkxs%2BZMqgY8PgqS9pe1ILJ%2BLiaN5LxOGBdnIoGCKWbN58vpLB0Q60DyQn3LKkJlod1ONA95FoQ2r7Cjrw9GcTN5GpcHsyHXjgxjJEY75EcJvDH09IEWEed1rZFLeY%2B94mMorTOlMIJNP6fasxYdaZfV%2BKl0tRE%2BE9g8InxELP4bZDs%2Fc%2F6wg8Wg5uSvauQOlb%2Ffq99YUPmWVw8bkM9VIGUwUmnuyNpZO--kChhwfWsbnSvIsY44BQE%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6SimaTRZQ

5 is pretty much the Goldilocks for being able to turn for diff lighting and place on narrow ledge.

This whole thread reeks of niggers

>>13622907

If indeed. Check ArchaiX on youtube, he has the most accurate chronology based on official documents and books. Could they be forged? Sure.. but we don't know that. The current creation dates back about 7000 thousand years and only the last ~5000 years are documented.

They dont know history

Sage it for they are so stupid and ignorant >>13624554

>>13624603

>Could they be forged?

Could they just be misdated?

> but we don't know that

The evolution of boats shows that the current chronology is wrong.

There are no Anglo-saxon or viking settlements on top of Roman ones in Britain and we find roman coins in Viking graves.

>and only the last ~5000 years are documented.

Only the last millennia is documented.

Time for brief summery, as promised.

Jordanian bro brought up some good stuff I'd not known before, but I think I can now debunk all of it.

The claim is the Islamic silver coin's MATERIAL can be hard science dated to certain mining dates/sites. These coins have no provenance, and unknown prior handling and hence no date-able patina. Have older coins been considered more valuable since forever, and thus incentive to make fakes? Yes, that is proven. Did possible fakers have anyway of knowing, much less care, about some science today? No.

But is it very likely the cache of silver used to make fake coins in say 1300AD would come from unmixed silver mined from specific locations when there was a silver mining boom in 600AD, hence giving the current impression the fakes were in fact minted in 600AD, by dumb luck and accident? Certainly very possible. Close reading of Jordan bro's link says they sorta recognize this issue of mixed VS unmixed issue, but don't debunk my theory.

Is there anything wrong with Cambridge Uni's theory of dating coins not just by date stamp but also mining and materials? No, good stuff IMO.

However, we have to place these very few, only somewhat credible, but certainly not iron clad, items with zero provenance against the overwhelming deafening silence of zero intact, in place artifacts of this supposedly vast, sophisticated, productive, RECENT, society and civilization that always exists, without question, for even groups less than 1/20th the size of even early Islam.

>>13612681>>13612973

>>13625079

Cont…..

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news-archive/2015/birmingham-quran-manuscript-dated-among-the-oldest-in-the-world

Several points:

1)Again the zero provenance, and a very "lonely" item, and just two pages in larger volume.

2)Carbon-14 dating CAN be real, but is also a real mess for dating any individual finds with no provenance and unknown prior handling. Claiming C-14 is definitive without bringing that up is very sus.

3)Claim is date of parchment, when its really the ink we are concerned about. This guy, who was really only guilty of exposing "modern art" itself as fraud, and proving "Hitler was right" about art as well, only got caught because some of the paint was modern, not the canvases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Beltracchi

4)Do people keep blank stationary around for 100yrs of years, just to prank us? Not exactly, but stationary is something people will buy much more of what they end up using, or getting around to using, but it never goes bad so it gets pack ratted away, and maybe found later, much later. I've done some remodeling and found intact 1/5th completed "scrap books" from 1900 in attics, with 4/5 of the pages of very nice paper still perfectly usable, so nice I made a point of giving it to someone, and this was CA where we don't really have any houses older than that.

5)Also, WTF do these two pages say exactly? At least 2/3 of Abrahamic religions are stories from other cultures used without attribution, with new "skin".

"Consisting of two parchment leaves, the Qur’an manuscript contains parts of Suras (chapters) 18 to 20, ". Two leaves of "parts" that are two chapters apart???

The don't deign to show us anything but a very blurry picture, but favor us with claims of old date-able handwriting style. Why? I'm getting a "Diary of Anne Frank" vibe about this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35660488

The more scholarly that the BBC was citing.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0148583

1)Seems likely that burying bodies facing "home" would occur to many cultures when traveling. Are there also lots of bodies facing other directions they aren't mentioning? Wouldn't "toward Mecca" also be toward the rising and somewhat Southern sun in France or Spain?

While Jews have a prohibition against including metal in graves, never heard that about Muslims or Christians.

2)Why not a single artifact of any sort included in these graves, not even a pair of undies. " which may have been wrapped," Unless Muslims are buried naked by other Muslims, and no mention of any scars on bones indicating either healed wounds of "a soldier's life" or new fatal wounds, it seems perfectly possible these were just local poor peasants who were buried nearly or completely naked in crude stone pile graves to save money.

3)Some reality TV show "CSI Cold Case" would be "asking for public's help" to ID bones and would say things like skull of woman was about 35yrs old, mostly Irish with likely 25% mixed American Indian, even without DNA, just skull shape. Where is that from these claimed Arab raiders in France and Spain? Or were they recent converts of locals? Does same some DNA was done but doesn't give results I can find, and Roman empire was on both sides of Med for a while and people could travel, so North African DNA in Spain or France is expected.

4)From the study:

"Despite the low number of Muslim graves discovered, we believe that these observations provide strong evidence for either the establishment of a garrison or a more long-term establishment of Muslim communities in Nimes."

OK, what about the "large number of graves" of other people pointing other directions, or large numbers of graves in other pre-1000AD sites in France and Spain? Where are the related artifacts? Surely there must be, like when the British were literally using mummies for railroad steamer fuel, due to vast numbers, untold thousands of Muslim graves all point at Mecca dating pre-1000AD from all directions across the entire region, all well naturally mummified.

My family owned some land in semi-rural Massachusetts, like the whole region, has about 2.5 old abandoned graveyards on less than 4 acres…that we know about due to still existing gravestones.

5)"Because the remains may be those of soldiers, it is worth noting that the bodies deposited in the graves were carefully buried (with clear respect for funerary customs) and did not present any osteological evidence of combat (which do not testify to deaths resulting from combat), as already pointed out for Islamic necropolises in Spain [48]. Moreover, in the cemetery of Plaza del Castillo in Pamplona (dating from the Conquest) adults of both sexes (with notably one female individual showing intentional dental modification testifying of an African origin) and children were discovered, suggesting that family groups or camp followers participated to the early Muslim population [40, 47]."

So we got "not a soldier, just a group with one female who was likely in Africa at some point".

All told, I see exactly zero compelling evidence these were Muslims, or that Islam existed from the facts brought up in this study. ALL they got is a very few, among no one tells us how many, buried in very crude stone pile graves, facing more or less in one direction, toward rising Southern sun. But again, as always, a completely unexplained total lack of any expected evidence.

>>13622930

>Merovingians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_dynasty#/media/File:Frankish_gold_Tremissis_imitation_of_Bizantine_Tremissis_mid_500s.jpg

More "retcon" old coins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity

"Every decree written by the Merovingians (written by their scribes and bishops, since the kings were illiterate) invokes God or Christ."

Got any originals prior to 1000AD, or is it ALL "books from other books" last original copied by Jesuits in 1450AD? AKA "retcon".

PS-mention of "God" is different that mention of "Christ". While they MOSTLY refered to individual Gods by particular names, in The Book of the Dead, in Ma'at they tend to refer to just "God" or "the Gods", depending on how you translate. Ditto for the pagan Greeks and Romans.

"Christ" is also a title for "preacher", not a name, so unless its something like "Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" spelled out at least somewhere in the text, we don't really know if its "Jesus" or just maybe the respected local witch doctor druid.

To cap off this brief summery….

Am I often playing "defense lawyer" and trying to come up ANY alternative explanation for what first seems likely legit confirmation of pre-1000AD Jewish, Christian, Muslim even existence? Could be.

But consider how shocking thin, weak and rare the actual evidence presented by our fairly educated and knowledge contributors is, compared to what ALWAYS exists, without question, for even minor groups/religions that actually existed.

Consider that in the vast amounts of artifacts actually existing in Europe and Middle East from 1000BC(just The Jews) to 1000AD, that some simple and common symbols, without any other context, just by pure chance, will be a match to also simple symbols or even burials of later religions. Without checking, I'm sure you could find some Japanese characters in the large amount of intricate decoration and designs of pagan Celtic stuff. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-ancient-art-of-the-celtic-people-photos/

Does anyone have a rational explanation for the amazing lack of expected artifacts, that we should have in vast volumes and numbers, from every region and nation where these religions supposedly existed, then the very sudden explosion of clearly distinctive very meaning specific items exactly after 1000AD?

https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/469289223669286093/

If anyone wants me debunk any of these "early image of Jesus" please post screen shot of particular one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxqCZBjapv4 Mostly they are common pics of "man doing something" without other context, or a few people standing or even dancing. Why does "Jesus" have a "New Testament" with equal legged cross that matches border brackets on the book's cover, if the NT wasn't written until long after he flew to Heaven? I mean I guess you could make a symbolic painting of Abe Lincoln, in Heaven, holding a copy of a book about the evils of the KKK. But the suppose Jesus with Bible has no other context and matches other pics of guys with books, and halos, made prior to OAD.

This one looks quite Christian specific but can't find info on dating of burial and/or carving. Yeah, given is not common, I'm saying is possible much later Christians would come back and add Christian stuff to one of their presumed relatives at much later date. Like placing flowers at a grave, but lasts forever. Heck, I know a guy who just buried his mom, but they still gotta come up with money for the tombstone, but that is considered OK. https://osjusa.org/st-joseph/art/the-epitaph-of-severa/

>>13624670

>The evolution of boats shows that the current chronology is wrong.

Tell these guys boats need to keep "evolving".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhow

AFAIK they still often use traditional natural material sails and ropes.

>>13625146

95% of this thread is AI slop

>>13625095

The heathens had two words for friend. A"win" that was a personal friend you won, and a friend that was a friendship you inherited.

Godwin thus means gods personal friend and one of his near ancestors are usually called Godefroy = Frey as god.

I now need a small digression on king Canute that basically means king Knot. The Celtic Knotwork was visible centuries after they had sopped making them, so it's not strange that this ere was called King Knots reign if you didn't know much history.

Kong Knut the Dane is also complicated, as Norwegians at the time said that they spoke Danish tongue, and Dannet = formed, good mannered, intentionally created , Utdanning= education.

The Danelaw thus have two meanings, the Danish law or the formed law.

If King Canute was a name given by the posterity to talk about the past so others understood, then the same might be true of men like Harold Godwinson.

The Harold was the top military commander, and Godwinson implies that his father converted to Christianity.

Harold Godwinson died in 1066, so it fits with your theory this way.

There is only one slight problem, Celtic Christianity on the British Isles looks to have been older, since they taught Christianity to the Anglo-saxon and the Norse.

The word Quelle-Kilde = source is missing from modern English, but can be found in Scots as Kelda = wise woman.

My guess is that a celt meant a christian, and was not an ethnicity as we think today.

>>13625195

Christian is very specific set of things. Not seeing it in any Celtic stuff, and they could make detailed designs.

>>13625197

Spambot breadburners. All of it.

>>13625199

>Christian is very specific set of things.

The holy Roman empire still had Greek/Roman pagans at the time of the Magdeburg declaration, and too many renaissance paintings fiocus on Christianity winning over the Pagans for it to have happened 1200 years earlier.

>Not seeing it in any Celtic stuff

Cellars, celibacy, cells and celt go together, and I agree that Christianity pops up around 1000 AD all over, but developing a tradition that monks lives in cells in celebacy takes time, and the tradition looks to have been there when Nordics became Christians around 1000AD.

The Christianity we find in the Sagas don't look a lot like the current form of Christianity either.

>>13625262

>Magdeburg declaration and renaissance happened 550 and 400yrs after 1000AD. Plenty of time to gin up and fully embed a new false history into peasants who keep no records except maybe family line.

Actually, I'm pretty sure "celibate high priest" is pretty common in several religions, but whether its legit or doesn't count relations with little boys is another question.

But I'm mostly concerned with total lack of artifacts even from the major centers of both industry, culture and supposedly religion, such as Rome, Eastern Roman, Cairo, Alexandra, Baghdad, Tehran, etc.

TBH, I'm not sure WTF the explanation is for WTF we see today, or how and when these religions really formed and spread. But it sure seems something is very odd and official version doesn't even come close to being believable.

My best working theory is that a network of proto-Jews, in the post-Roman world, sold the new Horus based religions to Goyim warlords in both White and Arab lands, as combo Tax Farming and Super-Govt legitimacy bestowing "club" which became The Church and Islam(submission in Arabic). "There is this new group forming and everyone is joining, and everyone in the club will be friends and recognize each other, but if you ain't in The Club, well, who can say. Costs nothing to join, and lots of good programs to keep peasants dumb and happy".

Post Roman newer warlords would all be sleeping uneasy without any Pax Romana or legal status, and eager to become part of some Super Govt. I could see it spreading across vast and different regions within a few months, even in 1000AD. Taking control of Official History and censorship and destruction of older records would be one of the major, but unofficial programs. Start a bunch of new Latin schools, with new textbooks with the New Program for villages that prior had no literate members.

Took less than one generation for all White nations to go from "Our national group is what we live for and defend" to "All us Whites need to bow down to these new Black and Browns" and all the Whites had lots of still existing written material.

>>13625656

>into peasants who keep no records except maybe family line.

If the "peasants" did not write down history then the Sagas wouldn't exist.

>But I'm mostly concerned with total lack of artifacts even from the major centers of both industry, culture and supposedly religion, such as Rome, Eastern Roman, Cairo, Alexandra, Baghdad, Tehran, etc.

I tried looking into Med history but gave up, because everything is so complicated that it's very hard for others to follow and understand that you are right.

I also understand Old Norse, Old English and Saxon, while I don't understand Greek or Latin, so I focus on North Sea history.

I think the USA has happened many times in history, and since the USA become the richest they become culturally dominant over the homeland after a while.

1 The first USA was when mainland Nordics took Denmark and Frisia, and then Denmark ended up dominating.

2. The second USA was the British Isles, where Nordics and Frisians also ended up weaker than England.

3. The third USA was Western continental Europe and the fourth was the Med and here we are in historical times.

5. was Eastern Europe and 6 was America.

The Med grew the richest so they dominated like the USA did the last century.

I Christianity started in N-.Europe while the religious centers ended up in the Med because they were the richest, then it's not hard to think that they would create a long history so they would get the religious authority as well.

Nobody expect many old artifacts from the USA, since it's only a few centuries old, but it's scary how they defined everything just because they must know what they are doing since they are the richest.

The ones that had the most expensive bible had the correct one type of logic.

>My best working theory is that a network of proto-Jews,

Why do you think I have been talking about the goths? The goths didn't have ships since they were inland Nordics, so they focused on making things that the coastal Nordics could export. When the goths emigrated they became artisans and made cities, and since Scandinavian rivers are not very navigable they had to band together and make sluices, and they also needed mines to get the ore they turned into goods(original meaning of goods is cast metal objects)

All this needed to be organized in a way, so they needed a church even if they had no religion.

Miners, seafarers and farmers have different needs when it comes to religion. The Farmers are pretty easy since that is a fertility cult, but how do you get a miner to go into a mine and how do you get a seaman to go out at sea?

A religion where fatalism plays a big part is fitting for a seaman, but to get people to enter a mine you need an afterlife. The top god for the Seafarers would be an explorer and discoverer like Odin, while the mines and artisans would have a creator and firegod like Loki. As long as the Goths lived in Scandinavia they would also be farmers, just as the seamen also were farmers, so they probably shared Frey and Freya, but what would happen to their religion when they went to live in a city where they depended on the surroundings for food?

If Catalonia means Gothlandia, then by logic the Catholic church become the Gothic church.

The gothic churches in Scandinavia was destroyed by the Swedish king Gustav Adolph during the reformation , so we don't know what heresy they contained,

The goths that lived in Scandinavia became Christians, but what would have happened to the urban Goths in places like Barcelona and Damascus?

It's folklore that your soul turn into a star once we die in Scandinavia, and you'll find in HC Andersen's fairytales, and straggly enough it's a belief we share with the Alawites that live in Damascus.

That at least some Nordics believed in a firesoul can be seen by language, as "eldes" means both to burn and to grow old, and it's also proto-scientific. Animals produce heat, and we die when we are starved of air and we go cold when we die as if the fire burning inside us has gone cold. (left the body to join the great fire in hell?)

It's nothing about this in the Sagas, but it's obviously been a belief as can be seen from Nordic languages and folklore. It's not a part of Christianity, so my guess it's from the goths again, where it fits with Loki being the top god.

>Roman

I very glad that this meme is not a part of Nordic history.

Roman means a rover in Nordic brw.

The bible is an ancient Hollywood where they steal stories and re-write them. Moses is Hammurabi for example.

>>13625656

>"There is this new group forming and everyone is joining, and everyone in the club will be friends and recognize each other.

This is how it looks like Scandinavia became Christian.

English lost the word win because with Christianity all became friends while personal friendships(wins) was frowned upon?

Norwegian and Danish lost the word friend and say "venn av familien" = friend. Swedish kept the distinction until modern times.

I use folk music as a historical source for two reasons.

1. Nobody in the Church cared enough to bother to go after musicians and the musicians had collections of centuries old music.

2. The lyrics reflect what people thought at the time.

3. There is a lot of them. Musicians were also farmers and the trade was inherited. If one in a 50 farms were musicians, and the number of farms in Scandinavia is 200k then you get 4000 of these farm with music collections.

Some of the earliest printed book in Denmark-Norway was collections of songs they thought old at the time, so they go fairly long back the oldest of them (13century)

Many of these can be found in different versions in different languages like French, Breton English and Nordic, but the Nordic countries have a lot not found elsewhere.

Two ravens is perhaps the best known of these international ballads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHMLL8oK7dg

>>13625905

Judaism looks to me to be a people that lost their history and faked themselves a new one.

They blow in the shofar (goat horn), but they have forgotten that it once was an instrument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyfNJ9iMFUw

>>13625911

Viking coins in roman graves makes this chart silly.

>>13625931

>Viking coins in roman graves makes this chart silly.

Sorry

Roman coins in Viking graves, since the vikings were on their second runic alphabet at the time.

Why would The Jews paint themselves as "Christ Killers" in their newly minted religions to sell to Goyim?

Because among civilized legal systems there is no "guilt by blood", and a wrong accused person is a very sympathetic victim.

The Jews knew that sooner or later, some Goyim would call a Jew (who was up to no good in other areas) a "Christ Killer" and 98% of the rest of the Goyim would jump up on cue shouting "That was 100s of years ago! How can you accuse this Jew who you don't even know was related" etc. Goyim love to Virtue Signal and assume a position of moral authority over fellow Goyim.

Then The Jews can use that cover to go about running various criminal schemes.

>>13626005

Jews have no folk music, no history outside the bible, no literature and are the slaves of the rabbis, and after they have lived in an area for a generation or two they are universally hated.

>>13627113

Eh, I've made a casual study of their culture, and for all their numerous faults, lacking musical or storytelling traditions are no part of them.

Jews have always been involved in any trade that involved making something out of nothing, and they are marvellous storytellers, because they are credible liars.

They have always been involved in theatre, as actors, musicians and prostitutes were ever considered a set, and Jews shepherd such disparate people as livestock.

The one Jewish musical style I could name is called Klesmer, it's catchy, janky kitchy music.

It is important to see your enemy clearly, or else, how can you be expected to hit them when you shoot?

>>13627365

Show me.

>The one Jewish musical style I could name is called Klesmer,

That is just a bad copy

>>13627113

>no history outside the bible

Wrong. Read Cory's Ancient Fragments. In it he collects four pre-Biblical texts which are all alternate versions of the history of the Israelites (which, note, is different than "Jews" who only show up much later in the Old Testament) and the Exodus.

It's quite fascinating. In two of these, the Jews are cast as nomadic shepherds who resorted to banditry as they had been cast out of another territory into Egypt and they took over the city of Abydos and installed a sort of puppet theocracy there.

Very curious and unimpeachable sources in that book.

>>13629886

>In it he collects four pre-Biblical texts

And you trust the dating on these?

>>13629886

some of Frags come with still existing artifacts that at least the civilizations related existed.

but not the Bible stuff.

Intro to the Frags don't mention his original sources, but seems its from various Greek last re-copied (or created, or "recompiled"/re-organized) well after 1000AD.

Seems likely that some bible stuff was lumped into some Greek that may have actually existed in Alexander's time.

Sheesh, just look at how History is written today.

For my Extra Credit report in European, WW2 of course :), History I wanted to do the "story behind the story" of the reporter that broke the story about Hitler using prisoners to do False Flag on Poland to kick off WW2. "pick something else" for reasons. :( Turns out that story didn't exist during WW2, only made up after because without it Nuremberg wouldn't have worked. But we were all given the impression that story was Big News in USA and rest of world, and big part of why UK and France went all in.

>>13629886

>Very curious and unimpeachable sources in that book.

While the texts are certainly interesting, skimming the Intro he doesn't seem to give ANY info on what his original sources were, and it sure ain't no Papyrus Of Ani discovery of long buried new found and thus dated documents.

Some of the Frags contain references to stuff backed up by still existing artifacts, but there are no such artifacts for any of the Jewish stuff. Instead we have only at total lack of expected artifacts, and lack of mention of them in extensive Egyptian records (unless you call Hykos proto-Jews, which seems likely).

As far as I can tell, all these Frags are from last re-copied post-1000AD, several times translated last into Greek. It would be expected that even an honest scribe/editor/librarian "just trying to help" would include Jewish stuff that supposedly happened with some Greek historian's stuff that actually happened when the Greek was alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebuchadnezzar_II

"The outcome of these efforts was Zedekiah's open revolt against Nebuchadnezzar's authority.[49] Unfortunately, no cuneiform sources are preserved from this time and the only known account of the fall of Judah is the biblical account.[49][57]

Painting of the Babylonians destroying Jerusalem and leading captives away

The destruction of Jerusalem and the beginning of the Babylonian captivity, as depicted in an early 20th-century Bible illustration

In 589 BC, Zedekiah refused to pay tribute to Nebuchadnezzar, and he was closely followed in this by Ithobaal III, the king of Tyre.[58] In 587 BC, Ammon, Edom and Moab likewise rebelled.[59] In response to Zedekiah's uprising,[49] Nebuchadnezzar conquered and destroyed the Kingdom of Judah in 586 BC,[49][57] one of the great achievements of his reign.[49][57]"

Actually, it would be more accurate to say the entire existence of "Judah" exists only in Bible stories of which no originals exist prior to 1000AD, and that this "…..one of the great achievements of his reign.[49][57]" seems to be the ONLY such victory not well recorded in still existing cuneiform stone and clay records.

https://lostscripts.hypotheses.org/242

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity

Of course this amazing find, direct mention of Jewish king's rations in captivity, was found, and presented by unknown "antiques dealer" well after the language had been well re-discovered and translated. Pretty sure the clay has never been scientifically compared to similar items of known provenance that can be dug out of ruins today. Wouldn't such records normally be among LOTS of similar records, like of stuff besides the existence of the ancient King of Israel?

I liken it to the one copy of this that just happened to be found by a German-Jewish lawyer from USA that had failed to re-imprison Hitler in 1928! What are the odds? One copy of the Protocol with circulated minutes of the meeting survived the war. It was found by Robert Kempner in March 1947 among files that had been seized from the German Foreign Office. It was used as evidence in the subsequent Nuremberg trials. The Wannsee House, site of the conference, is now a Holocaust memorial.

>>13629931

Sources themselves can't be impeached, they was generally famous IN ANTIQUITY. It also includes Hanno the Navigator's journey through the Pillars of Hercules, then south along the coast of Africa where he discovers NIGGERS. He names them the Gorilla, a name which has stuck right until today.

>>13630102

You need to actually read Cory's Ancient Fragments or at least the relevant part of it, before you can pronounce anything about their authenticity, or relation to the Bible. In this case you happen to be flat out wrong.

There are also parallels in Greek mythology and history, to that of the Israelites. If you've ever read Herodotus, which you should if you haven't. He's an entertaining writer and was the first to approach the problem of history by integrating sources, telling alternate versions of events, etc. He even gives little lectures through the books on why history is difficult.

The parallels between the history of the Israelites, and those that other people have in their own mythologies aren't coincidental either. Somebody also wrote a book about THAT a long time ago, Anacalypsis. Which you also need to read before you go on about the Bible not being historical or there being no evidence of it before this mythical year you seem to want to call 1000 AD. A name you can only make sense of because the Birth of Christ is your zero year.

What if I tell you that the years and who was where doing what gets muddy pretty fast, and if you go back more than say, 300-500 years it's quite the jumble and even institutions like the Roman Catholic Church aren't 100% sure of anything before that point? You'd laugh and point at bits of string and shoe lever pulled from a hole and a log and a charred bit of bone and say HAH! GOTCHA this proves everything!

No nobody knows what the hell is going on and let's not even get started on WWII, where the bulk of the information on it out there given as education and history, is either wrong, propaganda, or harmless enough that it was left alone. It was decided the war would continue and Germany as a nation would be destroyed forever, before WWI was even fought. Did you know this? Forget about that, you can make another thread about your theories on WWII. Let's stay on topic here.

>>13610564

You can tell just by looking at her, that pussy has been spread wider than when Moses parted the red sea

Polite bump.

>>13630110

>they was generally famous IN ANTIQUITY.

But ANTIQUITY was 1000 years ago, not 2000..

>Hanno the Navigator's journey through the Pillars of Hercules

We find Roman coins in Viking graves, and no Anglo-Saxon or Viking settlements on top of Roman ones in the UK.

The Oceans have swells and the Med don't, so Med ships could not sail in the Atlantic.

A viking ship could break in two if they met a storm in the Med, because they were built to flex on the swells, but a Med ship with mortise and tenon was stiff and would break in normal swells.

>There are also parallels in Greek mythology and history, to that of the Israelites.

Not strange since Jesus and his disciples quote the Greek old testament, not the Hebrew one.

>No nobody knows what the hell is going on

I agree. I don't claim Med history is wrong or fake, just misdated.

>>13610564

I wonder if her pussy smells more like fish or beans

>>13630480

it probably smells like King Tut's sarcophagus

>>13630110

>Anacalypsis

another interesting text, but from 1830s and no original sources pre-1000AD.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all very specific religions as well as famously intolerant and genocidal of other religions, and all become the central theme of any society they take over or create.

It just doesn't add up that there are exactly zero bonafide legit artifacts, from even fairly recent times when humans were highly productive and pre-industrial revolution, and from regions that were producing many artifacts that still exist, but not a hint of these pervasive and powerful religious movements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity

Retcon and creating historical fiction with real locations, events, kings sort of included is a universal human trait. Sumner existed but Conan the Barbarian didn't until about 1900AD.

"want to call 1000 AD. A name you can only make sense of because the Birth of Christ is your zero year." It makes sense that some Jews selling a new religion based on magic of someone coming back from the dead would start with "a THOUSAND years ago……" because if they said "last month" some wise ass would be likely to test the Jew's claims, using the Jew as the test subject!

As we learn from this tale, making claims of CURRENT supernatural status to some yokels can give you quick gains, but comes with risks.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/lvbBjlChfEl3

Likewise we see the Jew's "The Holocaust"(tm) claims made within living memory quickly falling apart and each individual claim is basically gone, and it only still exists as a self-defined "era" like "the Roaring 20's" or "Nifty 50s".

>>13631047

>pasus =Pagus ,

>>13631074

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6YKDOhYlo

I like the Jew John Stossel. Even when he is right he is wrong. :)

Fun Fact is when you compare Apples to Apples, American public schools are the best in the world, or were as of about 10yrs ago. Only nation that edges out White Americans was Finland, but no doubt due to loose definition of "White" in USA.

Every ethnic group does better in US schools than in their homelands. IMO that is due to, in spite of flaws, USA still being the most open and mentally stimulating culture OUTSIDE of school.

I've had people from USA live in Germany or Japan as upper-middle class civilians and they say its mostly boring compared to USA.

I was in the Cupertino neighborhood that Stossel reports about outsiders cheating to get their kids into the "good schools" and he got it all wrong. It wasn't Mexicans it was Hindus and a few Chinese and they were getting away with it and had the School Admin afraid to act. "School Investigators" would only harass legit American families long time residents that created the "good schools" the second someone's parent got an out of area address or someone went on extended vacation or divorce/remarry or shit.

"Hearst's Law": If you have 1st hand knowledge of something and hear about it from News, you will think it was another but different event nearby.

related thread

https://8kun.top/pol/res/13628005.html#top

>>13631091

I'm mostly interested in everyone submitting any claimed pre-1000AD artifacts.

I consider myself open minded on my thesis, "Anne Frankly" amazed it hasn't been BTFO. Just one decent site would cast doubts, and there should be literally over a thousand very solid sites that would make a laughing stock out of my thesis. Try denying the Mayan's existed for hundreds of years during mainstream history claimed time-frames.

>>13631409

I mostly agree with you, but I would like to see your rationale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_History_of_the_English_People

1000 years has been added to our timeline. So, your dating matches up

>>13631412

The validity of these Memoranda (and similar notes in the Moore Bede) as evidence for the precise year in which the manuscript was copied has been vigorously challenged. While it may not be possible to assign the manuscript to a specific year, it seems unlikely that it was copied much after the middle of the eighth century.

The Jews produced over 4,000 pgs are careful forged documents for just one of their minor hoaxes, Katyn, and in very short order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Reavis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Baron_of_Arizona

How crazy is this shit. It almost worked.

>>13631412

why do we ONLY have these items that pop up out of nowhere?

When Obama was born (somewhere) in Hawaii you could get a Birth Cert by filling out a form and sending in $10, no questions asked. You could get a BC for your new boat, house or dog. How cute. But we don't even have an original one of those, or a copy, or photocopy, just a "digital data" that popped up in a system that doesn't even data files like your home PC.

My BC has Doctor's name, doc's HOME address, lic #, etc, and of course hospital, exact time, weight, docs sig, etc.

>>13631463

date files like PC

You my friend are an NPC. change my mind. also go fuck yourself.

>>13631417

some claim stuff like astronomical events and tree rings disprove that, but I've never seen anything laid out definitively as a single "case" either way.

Nor any cross checking of stuff like comets with Hindu or Chinese or New World sources. They say New World cultures had superior calendars based solely on The Heavens and better math than Romans, not politics.

>>13631462

>it seems unlikely that it was copied much after the middle of the eighth century.

So when do you think Jesus lived or was invented?

Roman coins in Viking graves and no Anglo-Saxon or viking settlement on top of roman settlements in the UK means to me that Bede must have lived after the viking age.

>>13631483

>The Roman Rulers and Kikes

Judaism is anti-Christianity so that must be younger than Christianity.

As for the Roman Empire it's all very strange, so I have given up on it.

>all the Warrior Tribes

I don't the Germanic tribes ever existed.

If we look at what we call Germanics today, then we don't find tribes. You fought on the same side as your neighbors, not your relatives.

If we look at migration in historical times, like with the USA or South Africa, then immigrants came from all over, assimilated into the dominate group, and then the colony kept the dominant language but freed themselves of the dominant home country. Norwegians that went to South Africa ended up speaking Dutch, while the ones that went to America ended up speaking English.

If we go a few centuries back in time we would probably find that Norwegians that settled in Saxony in East Germany ended up speaking Saxon from the dominant ethnicity Saxon from Ur-Saxony close to the Danish border, or Norwegians that settled in Finland ended up speaking Swedish.

>the dark ages

I don't think those happened either, but that they are the result of a faulty chronology. .

>>13631494

Thanks for your imput

Yeah in the ME at that time 600 years BC

It was romans or other Tribes

BUT over in the Euros

we were beyond the Bronze age tribes

and developing Pagan religion

Greco-Roman accounts

say this is so Its Fact

>all the Warrior Tribes

They were SO Many tribes in Euros that Worshipped Spiritual pagan

again Greco-Roman accounts are there too see

>the dark ages was very early ersa ,

5th to the 10th centuries following the fall of the Western Roman Empire

Holy ROMAN EMPIRE CAME and WIPED OUT PAGANISM

>>13610564

I bet that chick has the STINKIEST pussy in the entire history of man

sister thread on 404chan

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/505099672#p505104206

lets see if anyone can post any new artifacts :)

I'm getting some new submissions to debunk