a8761a No.13610564 [View All]
Post your best artifacts and watch me debunk them! :) I've done this before and never lost.
To save some humiliation, lets lay down some ground rules and guidelines.
"dated paleographically" means someone DID do Hard Science(HS) dating of the materials and results, to put it mildly, didn't match, so the Curators have decided to keep results secret and not allow any more testing, due to projected loss in Tourist Revenue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom_scrolls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_Blessing
WTF does the artifact actually mean or say. My "paleo-Hebrew"(AKA not "Hebrew") and ancient Greek is a bit rusty, so we'll have to rely on other's translations. My Latin is a LITTLE better.
Very generic "yeah, you guys are blessed if you pray" type stuff that generically seems to exist in any and all cultures, alone without context, isn't really proof of an otherwise very specific and INTOLERANT(of other competing dogma) religion.
Even if (and its a big if) something, without other context, translates to "Israel", some other societies mere name of a region doesn't mean the society NOW using that name existed in any way. Location names seem to stick around. Witness the many feather Indian names of American States, rivers, etc.
Many people like to hang onto hard to spell and pronounce first and/or last names, but Jews are famously quick to adopt names of pre-existing host cultures.
The Cross is a pre-0AD common pagan symbol and among other things is one of the most basic engineering structures any culture creates out of two sticks, to hang shit off of to get it off the dirt, and more visible. Its also "X marks the spot" indicator that two of the same stroke means "I meant to do that" vs "I'm a careless slob". The "Crosses" on many pre-1000AD Roman coins are a better match for the new model sword with extended hand guards that could be used without a shield either double handed Great Sword or sword and dagger, and considered bad ass and macho. Note many are curved at the point, and its either one or two, never The Holy Trinity as on some many post 1000AD churches. Some say the two represent parents and its a late Roman adoption of Egyptian "life" symbol. But I guess we don't really know due to total lack of supporting context in the vast and detailed universe of known and vetted Roman artifacts. Chi Rho means "the anointed one" in Greek and was used as that abbreviation since 200+BC. It was on Roman coins after Roman emperors started to fancy themselves demi-gods. I don't think current generalissimo calling himself a living god is very Christian. lol
Probably the best claimed proof that Jews existed prior to 300AD is large candle-holder show on moment of a Roman victory in region, being carried off by Roman troops. However, in the Mel Gibson WW1 movie, an Egyptian street peddler is hawking a 5 candle version to Brit troops. Candles in a row that can be carried as a unit works for various lighting reasons. The 7 day week comes from lunar cycle which governs both land and water animal behavior and yes its 7 days as much as it is 28 or 14, as hunters and fisherman will tell you. It does "wrap" against daylight, so Egyptians (and no doubt others) used a 5 candle model with separate two other big and small. Plus, 5 candles is the Goldilocks size for using the turn-able "adjustable" candles in a row lighting feature.
____________________________
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d58659 No.13651887
>>13651818
>make it harder for nonjews to discuss the serious problems of judaism.
I"m the OP. IMO this threads premise is more important than Holohoax Debunking itself, since it addresses the first big snow-job.
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0a59ab No.13651916
>>13610564
> I've done this before and never lost.
Yes, of course, because you're not risking anything. You can always appoint yourself as a tie-breaking judge and rule in your own favor, and no amount of bad faith will catch up to you because you're anonymous.
>To save some humiliation, lets lay down some ground rules and guidelines.
No man should be a judge in his own cause; you're demanding that people play your game, and you're demanding the right to claim that you're playing by "rules" but in fact you can play "Calvinball" and ignore anyone who calls you out on it.
>"dated paleographically" means someone DID do Hard Science(HS) dating of the materials and results, to put it mildly, didn't match,
So "someone" did "hard science." And you don't cite any textbooks or refer to famous professors, you just wave your hand to assure the audience that you understand this sort of thing but you're not going to spell it out.
>>13610859
>> shroud of turin
>are you trolling me, boy?
>The microscopist Walter McCrone ….[5] ….[6][7]
>the Hard Science testing allowed on The Shroud is an example of what is NOT being allowed on other artifacts.
So you are block-quoting somebody who uses numbered quotes, without including the numbered quotes. Have you ever graduated from high school?
At least by this point in the thread we have our first notion of the experts of which you approve. And what, pray tell, makes *your* opinion of McCrone more authoritative than the opinions of those who disagree with him? Nothing but "Calvinball."
Yeah, this is a great thread. "Come on everybody, I am the debunking authority! I am the judge in my own cause and I can debunk everything I want to debunk!" This is the kind of idiocy that makes peer-reviewed journals look worthwhile by comparison.
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0a59ab No.13651917
>>13641134
>- TO BECOME A BADGE MEMBER & HELP GROW THIS CHANNEL -
>HERE IS THE LINK: / @mylunchbreak
Oh, wait, I finally see why OP decided to pollute a politics board with his attention-whoring – he's trying to become a YouTuber outside of YouTube. Ironically, the unpleasant parts of being a video-influencer are so unpleasant that they would constitute appropriate punishment for his attention-whoring.
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c05031 No.13652051
>>13651916
THX for the reply with several at least valid questions.
I'll be back shortly to address all of them! :)
IMO this thread is more important than ever given current war on Iran.
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c05031 No.13652052
>>13651917
>become a YouTuber outside of YouTube
I'm thinking more like an online Encyclopedia project.
Probably a data base that goes by GPS location, and multiple track of dates of when:
1) the event supposedly occurred
2) oldest known existing record
3) oldest known existing artifact
4) methods of dating 2 and 3.
5) disputes of 1-4.
Then a "contrast and compare" section of the many cultures that have actual evidence not in any dispute that are still supplying artifacts today, dug up under the strictest protocols.
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c05031 No.13652053
>>13651815
show which posts are beyond your understanding
except for a few attempts at humor they all seem pretty clear
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c05031 No.13652054
>>13652052
but I guess a YouTube or more like Rumble show could be a thing.
I'm thinking about a once a week format where I'd announce the next week's subject a week in advance so fans could submit info and claims for me to research.
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c05031 No.13652058
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acaf80 No.13652106
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95009b No.13652124
>>13651916
>>13651916
>not risking anything
its not about risk, but "anonymous" prevents dishonest people from using dishonest means "doxing"
>lets lay down some ground rules
because 99.99% of people are too stupid to understand I'm talking about actual artifacts, not books written from other books, the oldest of which is 1100AD or later.
>"dated paleographically" means someone DID do Hard Sci
You misunderstand. It means there is NO published Hard Science, and ALL they are presenting is "paleographically" which I've addressed in this thread….real scientists rightly scoff at "paleographically" claims without real science, since making "ye Olde" type writing seems to be a universal human hobby.
Present your best artifacts. :)
Shroud of Turin has many claims that seem valid, as far as dating, but just as many that debunk it. From my viewpoint:
1)It could be close to correct age.
2)It could be much newer.
3)Carbon-14 is basically unless for anything that has been well handled, and barely useful for something that has been somehow preserved and sealed since death.
4)Its not a shroud, its a 2D image, AKA painting or drawing, or "projection" of some sort.
5)Claims its blood/wounds are some amazing match to Bible haven't been reverse engineered by disinterested CIS experts. I'd like to tell Tokyo PD detectives to, given certain wounds, show me what a "shroud" or painting, would look like.
But we are still left with the fact that all these supposed artifacts are very dubious, "lonely" and have no good origin. Real cultures/religions have tons of stuff being dung out of the ground today that can be dated from real stuff like layers of soil they are dung out from.
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95009b No.13652125
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_Christianity
Some interesting takes, but IMO also fits starting at 1000AD.
"Stark points to a number of advantages that Christianity had over paganism to explain its growth:
While others fled cities, Christians stayed in urban areas during plague, ministering and caring for the sick.
Christian populations grew faster because of the prohibition of birth control, abortion, and infanticide. Since infanticide tended to affect female newborns, early Christians had a more even sex ratio and therefore a higher percentage of childbearing women than pagans.
To the same effect: Women were valued higher and allowed to participate in worship leading to a high rate of female converts.
In a time of two epidemics (165 CE and 251 CE), which killed up to a third of the Roman Empire each time, the Christian message of redemption through sacrifice offered a more satisfactory explanation of why bad things happen to innocent people. Further, the tighter social cohesion and mutual help made them able to better cope with the disasters, leaving them with fewer casualties than the general population. This would also be attractive to outsiders, who would want to convert. Lastly, the epidemics left many non-Christians with a reduced number of interpersonal bonds, making the forming of new ones both necessary and easier.
Christians did not fight against their persecutors by open violence or guerrilla warfare but willingly went to their martyrdom and prayed for their captors, which added credibility to their evangelism."
No so sure about the last one. We don't have any records of Christians existing before 1000AD, but we have lots of records of Church spreading via the most harsh and gruesome means the Jewish Mind could devise.
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cc7679 No.13652916
thought I should include this, mostly just because its an example of actual historical timeline of a religion, showing where stuff really comes from
https://www.mormonstories.org/home/truth-claims/chronology-of-mormon-history/
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cc7679 No.13653182
I'm looking but I don't see a single "Christian" anything.
Why wont they tell us what the words say? I can barely make out the letters to even attempt to plug it into a translator. If they DO say anything overtly Christian I can pretty much guarantee they'd be found to have been "later added" or "reworked".
***********
""This helps us identify who oversaw the area's religious duties at the time."
The archaeologist added that the mosaic's symbols – especially the depictions of natural elements – shed light on ancient religious rituals."
**********
thats a lot of conclusion without sharing WTF led him to that.
Anyone got more on this low info Fox News piece, or is this all there is?
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eed77a No.13653193
I don't care if nothing exists prior to 2026 so what?
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cc7679 No.13653810
https://buildingacceptanceblog.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chronicle-7541.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_754
I believe this original manuscript is likely authentic, because after the modern introduction, a Ctrl-F search of the translation show exactly zero returns for the words Christian, Muslim, Islam, Jew, Hebrew, and only a few for "God" but not in a particularly religious or partisan context.
" plundered and godlessly invaded Spain to
destroy it"….." now, by
the judgment of God, openly exposed to the sword, famine and"….etc.
It does name lots of groups, nations and individual nobles and leaders, locations, dates, actions. etc.
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cc7679 No.13653811
>>13653810
In Justinian’s time, in the aforesaid year, the first year of his rule and the eighty-ninth of the
Arabs, Walid held the kingship among the Arabs. In Spain, Witiza continued to rule for his
fifteenth year.
In Justinian’s time in the era 747 (709), in his fourth year [sic] as emperor and the ninety-first
of the Arabs, Walid received the scepter of the kingdom of the Saracens, as his father had
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cc7679 No.13653816
>>13653810
file:///C:/Users/Lapto/Downloads/Conquerors_and_Chroniclers_of_Early_Medi.pdf
Woops, looks like its a lot more than 2 pages and there are quite a few references to Christian stuff.
So I guess now I'm back to questioning if this was all really written prior to 1000AD.
"Since the 16th century, it has been attributed to an otherwise unknown bishop, Isidorus Pacensis but this attribution is now widely accepted as being the result of compounded errors. Henry Wace[5] explained the origin and the phantom history of "Isidorus Pacensis", an otherwise unattested bishop of Pax Julia (modern Beja, Portugal).[6]……
…..The Chronicle was first published in its entirety in Pamplona, 1615; it was printed in Migne’s Patr. Lat., vol. 96, p. 1253 sqq. "
95. 5,954 years have passed from the beginning of the world to the era
792 (754), which has now begun, the tenth year of the emperor Constantine,
the fourth of Abd Allah, the Amir Almuminim, the seventh of Yusuf in the
land of Spain, and the one hundred thirty-sixth of the Arabs. If you wish, you
may subtract four of these years in accordance with certain historians who
diligently affirm that this should be done, computing the fifty-sixth year of
the reign of Octavian to have expired in the 5,210th year of the world and
asserting that Christ was born in Octavian’s forty-second year. So it is in the
sixth chapter of the first book of the Ecclesiastical History of lord Bishop
Eusebius of Caesarea208 as well as the Chronicle of the master Isidore209 and
all the scriptures, which also indicate the same year: subtracting fourteen
years from Octavian’s fifty-six, forty-two remain at the time of the birth of
Christ. When the fifth year of Julius Caesar was completed, 5,154 years of
the world had passed. Adding the forty-two of Octavian, 5,196 years had
passed from Adam to the nativity of Christ, which, as we said above, is four
years less than 5,200. If the 754 years since the Incarnation of the Lord –
which is computed as the era 792 – are added to the aforesaid 5,196 years,
you get 5,950 years of the world, the four years having been subtracted.210
But because the years of the world have not been calculated sufficiently
clearly by our predecessors so as to be numbered equally according to the
same system or reckoned alike by all historians within a single sequence211
205 Probably a reference to Thala ibn Salama, one of Balj’s successors. López Pereira,
Crónica mozárabe, p. 127.
206 I Kings 15:7, etc.
207 This list of the contents suggests that it is the same as the ‘epitome’ cited by the autho
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000000 No.13654014
>>13610564
This has to be bait. We have all sorts of documents from late antiquity and earlier. Off the top of my head, Dead Sea Scrolls (Jude), Nag Hammadi Library (Christian).
Academia may cover up anything that goes against Orthodox, but we have actual, physical evidence that refutes your claim, retard.
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cc7679 No.13655163
>>13654014
I'll look into it but what hard science dates this stuff? Dead Sea Scrolls were found during the Golden Age of Jewish forgery, just when everyone was starting to notice "Israel has never been on any map" or ever mentioned in any of the extensive historical records of several empires.
Here is pretty convincing evidence of Jews before 1000AD, but its from Japan.
Key Texts in the CollectionGospel of Thomas: A well-preserved collection of secret sayings of Jesus not found in the standard New Testament.Apocryphon of John: Secret revelations given by Jesus to the apostle John regarding creation.Gospel of Truth: A reflective, theological text exploring the nature of truth and illusion through a Gnostic lens.
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cc7679 No.13655164
>>13655163
I suspect the imagine of the Jap demon, and other details, date from much later, even if the original story started before.
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4b2bb7 No.13655167
8chan ♾️ Ai music 🎶 🎸
Part II. "EVIL JEW, DIE!!"
X
https://x.com/J00H0LL0WH0AX/status/2079382210852032674
Bitchute
https://www.bitchute.com/video/b2OenYIqC5el [Embed]
Rumble
https://rumble.com/v7cj1r0-8chan-ai-part-ii-evil-jew-die.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a
[verse]
Jews are the ones to blame
Fucking kikes in my aim
They will die in the flame
1488 the same
Total kike death I claim
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cc7679 No.13655193
>>13654014
Supposedly Israel was a mid-sized kingdom, that lasted a 1500 years on the same, in a couple/few iterations.
Late Roman emperors were supposedly Christian fanatics who force converted their entire Empires. Emperors DID leave us grand monuments, of marble with perfectly done statues representing captured slave girls.
Yet the only proof is a couple of supposedly old books only magically discovered after WW2, when Jews were churning out massive forgery powered by State apparatus of USSR, when people were noticing the entire "ancient Israel"
had no proof, as well as realizing The Church was one big fraud.
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cc7679 No.13655236
OP here, interesting stuff will comment later.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/yI9X7V0rfl1S
How Yahweh Became "God" - Gnostic Informant / Neal Sendlak
1264 Views - 2 days ago
Channel
Red Ice TV
53.3K Subscribers
Sensitivity - Normal (BBFC 12)
We do a deep dive into the cult of Yahweh together with Gnostic Informant AKA Neal Sendlak. We also will look at the emergence of Judaism in the ancient Canaanite world and how early Christianity came out of that environment.
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cc7679 No.13655280
>>13655236
AI Overview No, 99% pure silver (fine silver) cannot be scientifically dated to determine when it was smelted or formed into an object. Pure precious metals lack trapped radioactive carbon or organic material, and elemental silver does not undergo a reliable radioactive decay process that acts as an internal clock for age.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom_scrolls
The repository under chamber 25 contained approximately 60 cm of material with over a thousand objects: many small pottery vessels, artifacts of iron and bronze (including arrowheads), needles and pins, bone and ivory objects, glass bottles, and jewelry including earrings of gold and silver. In addition, the excavators found two tiny silver scrolls, referred to below as KH1 and KH2. The tomb had evidently been in use for several generations from about 650 BCE, that is towards the end of the First Temple period, and it continued to be used after the destruction of Jerusalem in 587/6 BCE.
Three questions:
1)When did it supposedly become taboo to bury Jews with any metal objects?
2)Why out of the thousands of various man-made objects is the only one that shows any Jewish origin of a material that precludes any scientific dating?
3)And what about those other thousands of objects, and what ethnic origin(s) do they indicate, because it sounds like most of it is decorative/ceremonial/ornamental?
The repository under chamber 25 contained approximately 60 cm of material with over a thousand objects: many small pottery vessels, artifacts of iron and bronze (including arrowheads), needles and pins, bone and ivory objects, glass bottles, and jewelry including earrings of gold and silver. In addition, the excavators found two tiny silver scrolls, referred to below as KH1 and KH2. The tomb had evidently been in use for several generations from about 650 BCE, that is towards the end of the First Temple period, and it continued to be used after the destruction of Jerusalem in 587/6 BCE.
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6c787c No.13655992
>>13610564
holy bot retard a year later
>>13610859
fucktard fell for the medieval forgery story LOL
didnt bother reading the rest because i guarantee no fucktard against Christianity has a good coherent arugment. Psalm 22 in accordance to the new testament framing of the crucifixation demolishes any of your retarded muses, as well as the inclusion of "we" and "us" language of Genesis. Pretty much every historian secular or not would shit on you for even saying your dumbass thesis for this thread LOL. what a fucking joke
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cc7679 No.13656043
>>13655992
its not a shroud, its a 2D image.
how the markings were made is debated, but I'd suggest if no paint of dye, maybe it was discolored by sunlight, THEN the paint/dye later washed away or degraded.
But its a PICTURE, not a shroud. I'd have figured that out after my first Halloween where we tried our own DIY papermache and other masks. IIRC I was about 4yrs old.
>Psalm 22 in accordance to the new testament >framing of the crucifixation (sic)
I'm not here to argue religious dogma.
Crucifixion was never a Roman punishment.
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cc7679 No.13656044
Location: Situated in Hamat Tiberias National Park near the Sea of Galilee.Zodiac Mosaic: A large circular wheel displays the twelve signs of the zodiac with the sun god Helios (Sol) driving a chariot at the center.Jewish Symbols: An adjacent panel displays two golden menorahs, a Torah shrine, and ritual objects like a shofar.
#1 Given the Bible explicitly forbids Zodiac and related stuff, and the "Jewish symbols" including the candle holder are common among several cultures, and that most of the Bible has been proven to come from non-Jewish sources, I'm thinking this was non-Jewish, pre-Jewish and that Jews later adopted the very common memes of horn, incense, certain plants that come into season and fancy box with ribbon.
This isn't a case where a Zodiac-ish meme like a year into 4 seasons and hence 12 months crept into some other artifacts design. Zodiac is clearly the main thing, then a pic of a few fairly generic likely ceremonial items attached.
#2 is mildly interesting, but what is proof of date, and when was the lettering done, and is it "Hebrew" or Phoenician?
what stories are similar to Abraham and Isaac where god spares someone in other cultures?
AI Overview The story of a near-child sacrifice with a divine last-minute rescue appears in several ancient cultures, most notably in Greek and Hindu mythology.
#3 Anyone got translations? Because if they were definitively Jewish I think we'd have them front and center, regardless of proof of date created.
#4 They claim its some Jewish building, but lacks any details or important distinct features to indicate much of anything.
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cc7679 No.13656045
>>13656044
https://www.bitchute.com/video/yI9X7V0rfl1S
"We do a deep dive into the cult of Yahweh together with Gnostic Informant AKA Neal Sendlak. We also will look at the emergence of Judaism in the ancient Canaanite world and how early Christianity came out of that environment."
^^^mostly about how he suspects Judaism formed gradually in the very early (supposed) days long before 0BC from various polytheistic concepts. But no one has ever claimed Jews were deep into adopting, in a detailed and high effort fashion, clearly pagan "idols" such as Zodiac and Greek/Roman/Egyptian sun gods in 300AD or when this was supposed to date from, in their own synagogues.
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cc7679 No.13656046
>>13656044
PS #4 is clearly Roman-Corinthian
Jews will tell you "being a pious people, we don't adorn objects, so that is why artifacts that are clearly ancient Israel don't have markings".
Corinthian: The most ornate and decorative style, featuring a slender fluted shaft and a capital carved to look like acanthus leaves. This was a favorite style in Roman architecture.
Acanthus leaves symbolize enduring life, immortality, and rebirth in classical traditions, while representing pain and sin in Christian iconography.
Jews don't believe in re-incarnation, etc.
On middle door we also see what might be a bull on left and boar on right, then some naked figures and kids, and clothed figures on the bottom. Very Greco-Roman and not at all Jewish.
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ac69cf No.13656107
I'll be commenting on The Dead Sea Scrolls shortly.
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cc7679 No.13656244
>>13656107
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-forgeries
IMO Mr Kause has a good take. "…the son of the guy who discovered the originals…" And there you have it.
I can only add that the Dead Sea Scrolls only surfaced when a lot of people were starting to notice there is no maps of "Israel" and no mention in the vast still existing historical records of several empires.
I can't help but draw parallel to how all the Kamps "liberated" by Western Allies turned out to be not "Death Kamps" and all the "Death Kamps" were under total USSR Jewish Communist control and not allowed to be investigated.
ALL the DSS in the USA's museum that got investigated by Goyim found to be frauds, yet ALL the DSS produced by the same father/son team held in Israel and considered "absolutely authentic" and of course no testing allowed.
https://www.quora.com/The-Dead-Sea-scrolls-have-been-proven-fake-so-why-do-Christians-reference-them-as-evidence
"The Dead Sea scrolls have been proven fake, so why do Christians reference them as evidence?
Sort
Profile photo for CW Krause
CW Krause
Bachelors of science in Computer Science & Archaeology, Washington State University (Graduated 2017)9mo
I love that every apologist just says, “ I don’t understand the question?” as if you wrote something that makes no sense. Yes the Bible museum ones were found to be fake. The claim now is that the ones found in 1947(hmmm.. coincidentally the year before Zionists made their move at the UN to recognize Israel as a Jewish state) are undoubtedly real. Yet they are held in secrecy in israel and are not allowed to be investigated or tested. I don’t believe they are real mainly because of the timing and also because person that sold the museum the fake scroll fragments in the son of the guy who discovered the originals. The son continues to argue the fake ones are real which tells me he found them in his dad’s collection and doesn’t know what he’s looking at. Don’t believe the commenters who give no hard proof they are true"
IMO its giving these Jews WAY too much credit for "found them in his dad's collection" as if it was some honest mistake or WTF.
I'd add that 2000yrs seems a long time for stuff to sit in a cave in a fairly well traveled region, if that cave was at least man-hole accessible, and treasure hunters AKA grave robbers, have been combing the region for at least those same 2000yrs.
"The Arabian leopard, Syrian striped hyena, and Arabian wolf are the primary large mammals historically known to use the caves of the Judean Desert bordering the Dead Sea for shelter, denning, and consuming prey. Because the hyper-arid Dead Sea region largely lacks trees and thickets, the area's numerous limestone caves provide vital protection from extreme daytime temperatures. Paleozoological surveys of these biogenic cave deposits have preserved rich records of these large carnivores"
"Nubian Ibex (Capra nubiana): While these large, agile wild goats are cliff-dwellers rather than permanent cave inhabitants, they regularly seek out shallow caves and rock overhangs to escape intense midday heat or hide from predators".
Why a Hyena Would Eat and Digest It.
It is made of pure protein: True parchment is made by washing, scraping, and stretching the skins of calves, sheep, or goats. Unlike leather, it does not undergo chemical tanning. This means the organic structural protein—collagen—is entirely unaltered. To a hungry predator, it smells and tastes like dried animal matter.
My Out Doorsy hunting/hiking experts tell me the reason I rarely find dropped antlers or even skeletons from all the deer that have a fairly quick life-cycle, drop-off, die-off is rodents will gnaw and ingest everything mostly for the Calcium.
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cc7679 No.13656245
>>13656244
Now there are supposedly real DSS "on loan" from Israel in the US Bible museum. But now we know exactly how to debunk the mildly sophisticated methods used to fake aging and other aspects of the known fakes. I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess there is some Iron Dome Clad way they are assuring that wont happen, and push come to shove, they will probably claim "replicas" (because the real and holy ones can't be risked, similar to how all the Apollo "moon rocks" given to various VIPs by US Govt have turned out to be fakes).
Museum of the Bible Acknowledges Five of Its Dead Sea …
Smithsonian Magazine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com › smart-news › five-…
Oct 23, 2018 — Kando, son of respected Dead Sea Scrolls dealer Khalil Eskander Shahin, sold selections from the family's accumulated assortment of scrolls
While not scientific proof, I'm seeing some patterns:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Bankman-Fried
Allan Joseph Bankman[2][3] (born 1955[4]) is an American legal scholar and psychologist. He is the Ralph M. Parsons Professor of Law and Business at Stanford Law School.
Barbara Helen Fried (/friːd/; born 1951)[2] is an American lawyer and professor emerita at Stanford Law School.[3][4]Her academic work centers on a branch of ethics known as consequentialism, the view that whether an action is right or wrong is determined by its consequences.[1]
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91dc45 No.13656269
>>13656043
that "image" is burned into the shroud. it's not superficial.
you could never create something like that doing DIY papermache LMFAO. you're not here to argue "religious dogma" because you have zero idea about it, don't get it twisted. The edomites in the crowd wanted Christ crucified; the Romans didn't understand why they wanted Christ punished. They only submited after extensive demand. Figure it out dude.
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cc7679 No.13656270
>>13656244
https://pages.jh.edu/jhumag/0400web/32.html
Man with bad eyes, and not doing the sort of hard science chemical analysis that debunked the attempts at fake aging of the know fake DSS scrolls, seems to be only semi-credible, semi-honest person to "authenticate" the DSS, using "Paleography", which real scientists and archeologists rightly scoff at. The "Paleography" of the fakes was able to fool some pretty smart, well funded people who had access to much better scholarship and tools, such as computer image analysis, than Albright.
In gonna have to dismiss Sukenik, and not just because of this "Eleazar Sukenik was the brother of a pharmacist who lived in the United States, who in the 1950s was convicted for selling amphetamines without prescriptions", but his many major ties to Govt of Israel's military.
AI Overview Infrared spectroscopy and imaging did not "prove" the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls on their own, but they fundamentally revolutionized how scientists read invisible text, analyze ancient parchment, and catch modern forgeries.
Abigail Quandt and Aaron Shugar: Conservation and material science experts (from the Walters Art Museum and Buffalo State College) who used advanced chemical analyses, microscopes, and x-ray fluorescence to prove that later marketed fragment collections were modern forgeries.
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/817018416/museums-collection-of-purported-dead-sea-scroll-fragments-are-fakes-experts-say
I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess:
The supposed "really really real" DSS on loan to USA from Israel are in sealed containers, not to mention 24/7 IDF armed guard, to prevent any chance of people like Abby and Aaron doing their tests.
I'd also bet, due to the stakes involved, the IDF guards have both orders and equipment to do a type of "Hannibal Doctrine" on the bits of the supposed DSS "on loan" to prevent any Goyim from testing them, and publishing the results.
By "Hannibal Doctrine" do I mean destroying the supposed DSS bits to prevent them falling into hands of testers OR murdering the testers before they could do tests and publish? Yes.
But what about the Carbon-14 dating? As explained in this thread earlier, while C-14 dating is real and even fairly precise, in spite of varying historical levels, its kinda a mess for something that has been exposed to not just air, but all manner of micro and not so micro-organisms, and various new chemical bonding of new Carbon atoms.
This guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_Libby was supposedly the one to do the DSS Carbon-14 dating, but I'm seeing anything like how the Catholic Church made sure everything was done hyper-publicly, letting skeptics chime in on how to do it prevent any accusations of fraud or less than perfect procedure. Just because he won a Noble Prize in real science doesn't mean he couldn't be fooled by the old street magician switch-a-roo if he was the only Goyim in a room full of Jews.
Later tests have been done by various people, but besides the problems with testing stuff that has been semi-exposed for so long, I'd have to paraphrase what Stalin said about elections, "those who do the testing prove nothing, those who provide the samples determine everything".
If I ask a lab to Carbon-14 date something do they need to know where it came from and why do they need to know that?
Yes, a carbon-14 dating lab needs to know where a sample came from and its environmental background.
Why Labs Need This InformationChoosing the right cleaning method: Different materials (like bone, wood, charcoal, or shell) need unique chemical pre-treatments to remove dirt, glue, or rootlets. Knowing the sample type ensures the lab uses the correct cleaning steps without destroying it. Spotting contamination risks: Knowing the soil type, moisture level, or burial environment….etc, etc, etc.
Basically you need to tell the lab WTF you are and reason for the test, and how old you WANT the item to be found to be, then they got 101 ways to "adjust" their findings to back into WTF you have told them you want the age to be.
As explained about the known fakes, Carbon-14 dating can be fooled by using Roman or even Egyptian era leather, which is commonly available. But would the Jews know they needed to use ancient leather in 1947, or more like pre-1940 before Carbon-14 was even discovered?
Seems if it was possible that would be the thing to do, given they there are probably other ways to determine if leather is very old. But how much of the DSS we are shown today were shown in public 1947 and when did the rest first happen?
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cc7679 No.13656271
>>13656269
Obviously, your mom never let you do tie-dye, or the more advanced "lost wax" techniques.
I'll let Loi woman-splain it to you.
I guess you were never allowed to wander in fields or vacant lots or junkyards to observe stuff like how an old newspaper that might have an object laid across it will "burned" by sun but not where it was covered.
Jews invented a story that paints ancient Jews as "Christ Killers" for a couple reasons to mind-lock Goyim such as yourself:
1) Goyim civilization has no "guilt by blood" in formal legal framework.
2) In Goyim culture, a wrongly unjustly accused person is the most sympathetic, if not heroic, figure.
3)Goyim are all programmed to rush to the defense and virtue signal, and police other Goyim, to defend the unjustly accused. (its that "police other Goyim" that matters).
4)Jews know that when committing their crimes, some mid-wit Goyim will point out that their behavior could be related to them being "Christ Killers".
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cc7679 No.13656272
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cc7679 No.13656273
>>13656269
Do us a favor and do WTF it takes to get this full article, and I'll review it for "facts and logic".
The fact its hidden behind their subscription/paywall has me excited. :)
https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/2020-03-16/ty-article/.highlight/after-dead-sea-forgeries-exposed-how-do-we-know-the-scrolls-in-israel-are-real/0000017f-e8ad-df5f-a17f-fbff96e10000
After Dead Sea Forgeries Exposed, How Do We Know the Scrolls in Israel Are Authentic?
All scroll fragments at the Museum of the Bible in Washington turn out to be fakes: Experts explain how we know the massive trove of scrolls held in Jerusalem is genuine
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cc7679 No.13656274
>>13656273
if that "Jordanian" family still supposedly has lots of real DSS, why not sell a few off?
I'm seeing "$35 MILLION" being bandied about as ball park.
$35M is "I'm fucking afraid to even have it in my house" money.
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cc7679 No.13656277
The provenance of the DSS held in Israel is not good. Story is some Arab kid found some stuff, then sold it to dealers in such things, and AFAIK only well after the area came under Jewish fanatic military control did any "controlled or well-documented early excavations" happen.
When the Nazis discovered Katyn they invited and sponsored all sorts of neutral 3rd party observers. I haven't heard of any such done with Israeli DSS work.
Haaretz mentions the fakes were debunked (by USA based Goyim scientists) using various methods. What they don't say is the the Israeli held DSS have passed that muster.
So we've got exactly two types of DSS:
1)Those that have been examined by Goyim scientists and found to be frauds.
2)Those held by Jews that the Jews claim are real that the Jews don't allow to be examined by Goyim scientist's hard science.
Again its much like "The Holocaust"(tm) and comes from the same post-war era, from the same people.
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cc7679 No.13656306
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cd5e9e No.13656423
>>13656043
>Crucifixion was never a Roman punishment.
Is there a biggest lie contest going on in this thread?
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cc7679 No.13656439
>>13656423
IIRC I've covered this in this thread already.
The ONLY 'proof' of Roman crucifixion is ONE nail through ONE ankle bone….
found in a Roman carpenter shop in a "light industrial" district.
Mob debt collectors or jealous husband or…???
Fell off ladder and fell on board with nail sticking out?
I've worked construction and this one Super said "anyone that steps on a nail owes everyone on this job $5 (about 80 guys!), and if I step on a nail everyone on this job owes me $20".
What did happen in Rome is they discovered Britons using Scarecrows. Naturally, that was soon adopted in other Roman lands. Then a proto-Jew sees them from afar in a field and the Jewish mind goes where it always goes, to cruel torture. My guess is The Jew figured "yipes, the Goyim around here don't fuck around when they catch criminals, I'd better make sure what I'm doing doesn't trace back to me."
https://brentnongbri.com/2018/06/25/the-palatine-alexamenos-graffito/
Horses, and donkeys weren't memes for "stupid" in ancient world, but were symbols for statues, respect and wealth.
Egyptians, still considered the most authoritative religion in the Roman world, put animal heads on human bodies, but TBH I don't see any horse-head gods.
However, during Pax Romania there were traveling performers, and common to represent a horse with a person wearing a horse head on stage. What I see is a "standee" ad for a theatrical production, maybe for a particular famous actor, maybe someone athletic/acrobatic and able to do horsy stuff beyond what a normal person is capable.
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cc7679 No.13656443
>>13656439
PS-lets remember what the claims are:
Key Milestones in Rome's Conversion312 AD: Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. He credited a battlefield vision for his victory at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge. [1] (https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/16q3yng/why_exactly_did_rome_convert_to_christianity_was/), [2] (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o-W1jaoGCRc), [3] (https://www.history.com/articles/5-ways-christianity-spread-through-ancient-rome)313 AD: Constantine and Emperor Licinius issued the Edict of Milan. This law stopped the government from hurting Christians and made their faith legal. [1] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-lsS3I7ebo), [2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Milan), [3] (https://www.history.com/articles/5-ways-christianity-spread-through-ancient-rome)380 AD: Emperor Theodosius I and co-rulers issued the Edict of Thessalonica. This made Nicene Christianity—a specific form of Christian belief—the official state religion of the Roman Empire. [1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_as_the_Roman_state_religion)
all that and all we have is a very ambiguous very low quality graffiti, from an empire and culture that was known for massive and orate monuments, as well as being generally accepting of foreign religions.
BTW, nothing on the Arch of Titus indicates anything Jewish, inline 5,7 and 9 candle holders is a standard design from at least Spain to China, because it allows the light to be "tuned".
I suspect the current Jewish design was taken from the Roman monument, not that the Roman's made a carving of something Jewish, because Jews didn't yet exist.
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cc7679 No.13656449
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cc7679 No.13656542
>>13656449
>I'm not seeing any evidence the silver was "Islamic".
PS-I covered the supposedly "mine sight dated" Islamic silver coins before in this thread:
1)Seems likely fairly large amounts of silver would be mined and stay intact, much like various "gold reserves" today have been intact for 100yrs or more.
2)minting coins with pre-dated minting dates has been done for several reasons, by several cultures.
As far as the Dead Sea Scrolls fakery, even without getting into whether or not Jews have a reputation for lying and fraud, it would be only reasonable to consider the deceit to be a MILITARY INTEL operation, given the circumstances surrounding their announcement, presentation to the public, persons involved, etc.
From the Jew's perspective, its no different that when in WW2 the US Navy "lied" and sent a message that Midway's fresh water production was broken.
To the Jews, the DSS operation, to secure the stream of US Tax Dollars, is just as militarily important as Lend Lease was for USSR or securing Romanian oil was for Germany.
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cc7679 No.13656544
>>13656542
> "mine sight dated"
site
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cc7679 No.13656622
>>13614062
>>>In each of the three graves, the bodies were placed on their right-hand sides facing south-east - in the direction of Mecca. The way the burial pit was dug, with a lateral niche closed off by slabs or stones also corresponds to a traditional Islamic burial practice.
>
>Thx, and while that ain't bad, its not terribly compelling. I'm guessing "buried facing home" is used by a few cultures and I'm not hearing about any artifacts or even pattern of stones of some clearly Islamic shape.
https://www.inrap.fr/en/first-medieval-muslim-graves-france-12018
" excavations led by Inrap revealed an Antique residential quarter, along with about twenty graves. Among these, the body position of three male burials is distinct, being placed on their right-hand side and facing southeast. This body position, with the head oriented in the direction of Mecca, as well as their direct deposit into a pit, clearly correspond to Muslim burial customs. In two of the graves, the burial pit was dug with a lateral niche that corresponds to the traditional Muslim al-lahd burial type."
I'm not seeing any real "The Lateral Niche (Lahd)" and if so a "Lahd" seems like a pretty generic coffin-less low tier DIY burial chamber, and likely exists in several cultures.
No artifacts mentioned.
So 3 out of 20 happened to be facing in one direction, and the rest in other directions?
Its an old Stock Market scam to cold call 32 marks with a stock prediction, and 16 are told it will go up and other 1/2 told it will go down. Call back the 16 where you guessed right, and do the same until you are down to 2 or 4 where you've picked right a few times in a row and they think you actually know something.
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cc7679 No.13656623
https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/542612828/tds-1536-twarticle-man
>tell me about the habiru and their relation to the "ancient israelites"
The Habiru (also spelled Apiru) were a social class of outlaws, rebels, nomads, and migrant workers in the ancient Near East.
Who the Habiru Were
Social status: “A designation of a class of people who made their living by hiring themselves out for various services.”
Time frame: Found in texts from the 18th to 12th centuries BCE across Egypt, Canaan, Mesopotamia, and Anatolia.
Lifestyle: Often lived on the edges of society as mercenaries, outlaws, or runaway servants.
Relation to Ancient Israelites
The Name Link: The linguistic root of Habiru or Apiru is closely linked to the biblical term Ivri (Hebrew).
The Amarna Letters: 14th-century BCE letters from Canaanite rulers to the Egyptian pharaoh complain about Habiru raiding and taking over city-states, which some tie to the biblical conquest of Canaan.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:14:16 No.542619976▶>>542619995
>>542619955
The Socioeconomic Foundation (The Habiru)
• The Concept: The Habiru (or 'Apiru) were not an ethnic group, but a marginalized socioeconomic class of landless wanderers, migrant workers, bandits, and mercenaries.
• The Connection: Displaced Semitic peoples matching this exact Habiru profile formed a major demographic and ethnic stock origin in the Eastern Nile Delta. Over generations, this raw human material integrated, settled, and laid the cultural and populace foundation for a new identity.
The Political Evolution (The Hyksos)
• The Transition: This migrant stock evolved into the Hyksos, a distinct socio-ethnic group and powerful merchant/mercenary elite.
• The Rise: Seizing on a period of domestic Egyptian weakness, the Hyksos took political control of Lower (Northern) Egypt, establishing the 15th Dynasty and ruling from their capital at Avaris.
• The Fall: Native Egyptian dynasties from the south eventually launched a successful counter-offensive. Pharaoh Ahmose I overthrew the Hyksos around 1550 BCE, driving them out of Egypt and pursuing them into the Levant.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:14:47 No.542619995▶>>542620024
>>542619976
The Reframing of Trauma (The Moses Myth)
• The Reality: Defeated and humiliated, the remaining Hyksos and their followers retreated into isolation within the rugged Canaanite highlands.
• The Revisionism: Rather than passing down the bitter truth of their military defeat and expulsion, the descendants of these refugees engaged in an act of political survival literature and psychological reframing.
• The Flip: They turned the historical trauma on its head to create a self-serving narrative: Their status as defeated rulers was reframed as innocent, oppressed slaves. Their forced expulsion was spun into a miraculous, divinely ordered flight (the Exodus) led by Moses. Their retreat into the isolation of the mountains was recast as a holy march to a Promised Land.
• The Parallel: This strategy directly mirrors how later Jewish elites handled the Babylonian Exile—spinning a crushing geopolitical defeat into a narrative of cosmic chosenness and divine destiny to preserve their tribal identity.
The Later Geopolitical Landscape
• The Israelites: Through this shared, mythologized memory of Egypt, the uprooted highland populations (the old Habiru stock and Hyksos remnants) solidified into the ethnic identity of the Ancient Israelites.
• The Philistines: Hundreds of years later (c. 1175 BCE), the Philistines arrived via the Mediterranean and were established on the southern coastal plains, eventually setting up a geographic and military rivalry with the isolated Israelite highlanders.
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cc7679 No.13656624
>>13656623
>>542619995
Pharaoh Ramesses III set up the Philistines in southwestern Canaan around 1175 BCE.
The historical details recorded in Egyptian inscriptions, such as the reliefs at Medinet Habu, reveal how they arrived and the strategy behind placing them there.
Who They Were Before Settling
The Philistines were originally part of a massive maritime migration known to the Egyptians as the Sea Peoples.
They were a displaced, seafaring, and militarily advanced population primarily originating from the Aegean region (likely Crete or mainland Greece).
One specific tribe within this coalition was called the Peleset in Egyptian records—which translates directly to Philistine.
How and Why Egypt Set Them Up
During the Late Bronze Age Collapse, the Sea Peoples launched a massive, coordinated land and sea invasion to conquer Egypt.
Ramesses III narrowly defeated them in the brutal Battle of the Delta.
Rather than executing the survivors or leaving them as roaming threats, Ramesses III executed a deliberate imperial strategy:
• The Forced Settlement Policy: Egyptian texts indicate that Ramesses III took the captured Peleset prisoners and forcibly resettled them into Egyptian-controlled fortresses along the southwestern coastal plain of Canaan (the cities of Gaza, Ashkelon, and Ashdod).
• Buffer Zone Border Control: Egypt's empire was weakening, and its northeastern border was constantly raided by desert nomads, bandits, and rival forces. By placing a highly militarized, foreign population on the coast, Egypt created a permanent defensive buffer zone.
• Vassalage and Mercenary Labor: The Philistines were bound by vassalage. In exchange for the coastal land, they acted as garrison troops for Pharaoh, guarding the highly lucrative international trade routes along the Mediterranean coast (the Via Maris).
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:15:51 No.542620052▶>>542620074
>>542620024
The Unintended Consequence
While Ramesses III set them up to serve Egyptian interests, the plan backfired over the next century.
As the Egyptian Empire collapsed entirely and withdrew its forces from Canaan, the Philistines didn't leave.
They absorbed the local Canaanite population, expanded into a powerful independent confederation of five city-states (the Pentapolis), and began pushing inland—right into the rugged highlands where the proto-Israelites had isolated themselves.
The Genesis of the Loop: Terror Met with Arrogance
The loop begins with the baseline trauma of the Habiru/Hyksos expulsion.
• The Terror: A displaced, multi-ethnic underclass and their defeated leaders are driven into the harsh, isolated Canaanite highlands, stripped of their power and wealth.
• The Arrogance (The Turn): To survive the terror of erasure, they invent the ultimate narrative of self-aggrandizement. They are not historical losers; they are the chosen elite of the cosmic creator.
• The Ouroboros: The myth consumes itself. The more isolated and impoverished they are in the highlands, the grander and more uncompromising their religious claims become to compensate for that reality.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:16:22 No.542620074▶>>542620101
>>542620052
The Immediate Limitation: The Philistine Reality Check
A description of the Philistines as an "immediate limitation" fits the archaeological reality perfectly.
• The Ecology: The highlanders found themselves locked in a developing regional philosophic and military ecology. On the coast sat the Philistines—militarily superior, technologically advanced (monopolizing iron production), and securely planted there by the fading shadow of Egypt.
• The Narrative Solution: The highlanders could not defeat the Philistines in a straightforward imperial clash. Therefore, the text transforms the Philistines into a narrative tool—a divine "whip" used by Yahweh to punish Israel whenever they faltered, or a foil for mythic underdogs (like Samson or David). The physical limitation of Philistine dominance was absorbed into the self-delusion: The Philistines only win if our God allows them to.
The Terminal Devastation: The Babylonian Incursion
The ultimate test of this psychological construct came when the Neo-Babylonian Empire swept through the Levant under Nebuchadnezzar II.
• The Equalizing Blow: Babylon did not care about local rivalries. It systematically crushed the militarily superior coastal Philistines and totally devastated the Judean/Israelite kingdoms, burning Jerusalem and dragging its elites into exile.
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cc7679 No.13656625
>>13656624
• The Ultimate Aggrandizement: For the Philistines, total defeat meant assimilation and cultural death. But for the Judeans, the ouroboros completed its circle. Instead of abandoning their myth because their city was destroyed, the exiled elites doubled down. They edited, compiled, and finalized the Torah/Old Testament in Babylon. They took the ultimate terror (the destruction of their nation) and used it to fuel the ultimate arrogance: Our God is so powerful that He commanded Babylon to destroy us just to prove a point, and He will now use Babylon to remake the entire world for our eventual return.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:16:53 No.542620101▶>>542620168
>>542620074
Through this framework, the Old Testament is the record of a culture that refused to admit defeat; by continuously shifting the goalposts of their narrative from the physical world to the cosmic/theological realm, they transformed a history of chronic geopolitical failure into an immortal, self-serving epic of cosmic destiny.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:18:33 No.542620168▶>>542620272
>>542620101
…HOWEVER
It worth noting, this framework is not entirely accurate… See, thr Egyptians NEVER fully took back over. A segment of thr Hyksos, their most militant and aggressive arm - their jignats - managed to retain power in Egypt even after the Egyptians took back over.
They then systematically destroyed Egypt.
>>
Anonymous (ID: 1C588eIw) 09/14/26(Mon)16:21:04 No.542620272▶
>>542620168
In truth… The story of the Hyksos - proto Jews - in Egypt is terrifyingky similar to the story of the Jews in European society.
Christianity is the foundational form of this in the modern era - when the Hyksos took Egypt, they replaced the Gods with their own, as they did when they took Europe.
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