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File: d12c2a0734c7bc4⋯.png (1.15 MB,1024x886,512:443,1736425518663801.png)

5c1f43 No.13596533 [Last 50 Posts]

God (Jesus) ordered this in bible:

"You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you."

inb4 jew saul said dont do it, he did it to timothy after he said dont do it, kek, typical jewish behaviour, also changing rule doesnt evade that it was ordered in the first place, also cutting at tip (more pain) or under it still is baby mutilation for blood pact that ruins poor boys bonding and brain development for life. Its wrong its bad, worshiping this is also wrong.

Fact: 1 god of bible who ordered pact in baby blood while baby is in bonding phase with mothrr (8 days old)

____________________________
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199798 No.13596543

And i have a fact for you,The Larpers are wrong to believe that their gods are pro-nationalism they want a multicultural world government, the Nationalcuck and RightCuck lost no matter if Christianity dies because the unification of humanity is inevitable, 'Pagan Larpers Lost, the age of aquarius is rule by saturn, nationalism will perish

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5c1f43 No.13596550

>>13596543

What are you talking about?

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5c1f43 No.13596556

>>13596543

Ah so ignore the topic and just divert to pagans who were never brought up. I dont care about pagans bro. I am talking about biblical god ordering baby mutilation in a pact. Why are you avoiding this

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5c1f43 No.13596565

can you please not worship baby mutilating god, its not good for collective subconscious of the white race.

Thank you

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b54356 No.13596574

>>13596565

I'm getting the aura of an Indian sar from you, OP.

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5c1f43 No.13596583

>>13596574

want a timestamp with hand? then what, im a white guy who reasons. what then?

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8a3cbf No.13596587

>>13596533

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

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5c1f43 No.13596600

File: 3cc32f4930e27f3⋯.jpg (1.79 MB,4032x1908,112:53,20250419_113112.jpg)

>>13596574

Here

>>13596587

jews said so, maybe, even if true it still doesnt change the past. He ordered it. Did he not? Or maybe you have more than 1 god of bible?

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d9ddaa No.13596609

>>13596533

Nigger, there's 3 threads in the catalog you could post this in.

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5c1f43 No.13596610

>>13596609

post hand spic

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5c1f43 No.13596638

>>13596543

>>13596574

>>13596609

ran away afraid to talk about facts…shamefur christian display. Biblical god ordered baby mutilating blood pact. Fact. Debate me pussies

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8a3cbf No.13596661

>>13596638

Satanic angels flooded the earth, of course God took some extreme measures. So would you.

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5c1f43 No.13596690

>>13596661

so jews said, maybe its not true, that is also always possible with jews, no?

so you are ok with them charectarizing god as such?

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5c1f43 No.13596692

>>13596661

is baby blood and suffering like a weapon against these satanic angles how does that work, explain it to me please.

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4e5dff No.13596766

>>13596692

It's not a weapon against these satanic agents; it's a weapon FOR these satanic agents.

Blood is the ultimate magical transmutational compound, only paralled by semen. Suffering sends out emotional energy (generally known as 'loosh') which ethereal/corporeal entities can feed off.

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a72190 No.13596772

christ is king :)

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5c1f43 No.13596792

>>13596772

king of….finish the title

I.N.R.I means…jesus of nazareth king of…

say it

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0d9474 No.13597386

>>13596533

Acts is complete fan fiction. Paul wrote in the epistles it wasn't necessary.

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0f7f26 No.13597395

File: 768b42112e602ab⋯.jpg (221.95 KB,1500x1151,1500:1151,1741944963289426.jpg)

>>13596533

traitors before enemies

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09fea1 No.13597523

>>13597386

cope, saul lied.

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39d087 No.13597573

There is a reason why they talk about "circumcision of the heart" and doing away with vanity laws in the bible.

18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

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0d9474 No.13597607

>>13597523

Yes. Let's believe the unnamed Jew who wrote the fan fiction, as opposed to the guy that wrote his own stuff. When did krauts get retarded?

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5839a5 No.13597632

>>13596550

>>13596556

But then Jesus came.

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928482 No.13597677

File: f42875a493d0354⋯.jpg (694.2 KB,1054x2030,527:1015,Screenshot_20250419_080246….jpg)

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09fea1 No.13597778

>>13597573

>>13597607

>>13597632

>>13597677

You miss the main point on purpose

Jesus = god of bible (1 god)

God of bible = ordered circumcision

Fact

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09fea1 No.13597802

File: 475da31fa896bd9⋯.jpg (221.33 KB,900x1180,45:59,1744518753210852.jpg)

>>13597607

>Yes. Let's believe the unnamed Jew who wrote the fan fiction, as opposed to the guy that wrote his own stuff

Jesus was a jew, no?

Jesus didnt write anything, no?

S(p)aul is recognized by all majory christian denominations, no?

Final question, was Jesus not circumcised as well on 8th day?

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aa605b No.13597804

>>13597778

Incorrect, God punished Jews with circumcision because Jews were fucktards.

Anyways, circumcision is an ancient Egyptian custom and isn't even Jewish. ("Moses" is an ancient Egyptian name.)

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09fea1 No.13597810

>>13597804

Read the passage. Genesis 10-15

Its not order for jews, god orders it for non jews as well. also 8 day old baby lol

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09fea1 No.13597815

>>13597804

10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring

Abraham heard this voice order him after the whole sacrifice son thing, read your book christians

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39d087 No.13597825

>>13597810

>>13597778

It is YOU who is missing the point and conflating the old testament with Christianity which is rooted in the NEW testament

2 Corinthians 3 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

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5839a5 No.13597826

>>13597778

>didn't read the story

Jesus literally, as in the way things are written with words, negates everything that happened before him.

The OT is btfo eternally.

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88abe1 No.13597836

>>13597802

>Jesus was a jew, no?

No he wasn't. "Jews" were invented a couple centuries after the Bar Kokhba wars.

Christ was a Nazarene, not a Judean. (They make a big deal out of that in the New Testament, had you read any of it.) First century Palestine was complicated.

If Christ took a DNA test today he'd be classified as a Palestinian Christian.

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2d6699 No.13597838

File: ed9f6c4ce12e3c8⋯.jpg (2.3 MB,3000x4700,30:47,islam2.jpg)

File: 83096923ced3389⋯.jpg (3.15 MB,2550x9700,51:194,islam3.jpg)

File: fd5aa22b4521b83⋯.jpg (56.73 KB,737x519,737:519,islam6.jpg)

>>13596533

go fuck the goats achmed

>also

violent sand monkeys ook ook ooga booga

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09fea1 No.13597907

File: c9186c2f21664e2⋯.jpg (396.76 KB,1200x1200,1:1,1619096703172.jpg)

>>13597838

fuck muzies also, semitic shits

>>13597836

sounds like something you made up, got any concerte behind it or just? maybe jesus had german dna? tall blonde aryan god. why not? we can say whatever.

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09fea1 No.13597914

>>13597826

Explain to me. Is jesus one and only god of bible?

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09fea1 No.13597927

>>13597825

Is bible christian book? Yes or no

Is there 1 god in christianity? Yes or no?

Is jesus god? Yes or no

Did god of bible order circumcision. Yes or no

Did he change his mind later? Yes or no

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88abe1 No.13597938

>>13597927

>Did god of bible order circumcision. Yes or no

No.

>Did he change his mind later? Yes or no

No.

There is no circumcision commandment or law. It was a tribal mark particular to a certain time and place.

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302af1 No.13597958

>>13597938

christcuckery is so fucking boring and twisting of the mind.

we need some sort of scientific spiritualism. chill out on the intense esoterism and intepretation of thousands-year old stuff. come up with something peaceful and modern. a bunch of desert people shitted around thousands of years ago, its time to drop it and get TKD over with

you can be very spiritual, very connected with others, nature, very much at peace, unafraid of death, happy and trying your best, and you dont need the bible. im at peace, i live my best, if i meet something in the afterlife, and they judge me even though i otherwise tried my best - that's on them

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88abe1 No.13597959

>>13597815

a) This is a "covenant", not a "commandment" or a "law".

b) This is a covenant specifically with Abraham and his tribe. Are you one of Abraham's direct descendants? If no, then don't worry about it.

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39d087 No.13597963

>>13597927

I can tell you have brown skin

The bible is a collection of dozens of books.

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39d087 No.13597967

>>13597958

>scientific spiritualism

There is a reason why the kikes shut down parapsychology and went all in on pharmaceuticals.

Go get your fucking pfizer shots if you want to worship (((science))), retard.

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88abe1 No.13597969

>>13597958

Or you can, you know, just read the text as written. Why the fuck do you care about God's covenant with some bronze age tribe? Those niggas didn't even survive to this day.

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39d087 No.13597976

>>13597969

These shill niggers will hate "christcuckery" and never read the Sermon on the Mount

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09fea1 No.13597986

>>13597938

Genesis 17 10-12

It is in bible. So you then reject bible??

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09fea1 No.13597993

>>13597969

because this gives god a certain characterization that you have to live with if you think bible is christian book and there is only 1 god.

Ok i get it, god was asshole, but long time ago, now he is great. Its still same god of bible if there is 1 god in christianity

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09fea1 No.13598002

>>13597976

I read it several times, ok, but even if you give me best fresh juice if there is 1 frop of cianide (jew spirituality) in my juice i will die, sure, 99% of glass is tasty fresh juice, but 1% kills me

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fb8c5a No.13598005

File: 400423268f5a4e6⋯.png (345.28 KB,640x805,128:161,1672179352513081.png)

File: 3ea0f6281cab086⋯.png (365.37 KB,736x500,184:125,1672179425909449.png)

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39d087 No.13598008

>>13598002

So then why did the jews sought to kill Jesus and had him crucified?

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09fea1 No.13598009

>>13598005

This makes it worse

Tip is where nerve endings are. EVEN MORE PAIN

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09fea1 No.13598027

>>13598008

because he ordered baby mutilation

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302af1 No.13598042

>>13597967

do not get hung up on semantics. we can rationalize spirituality. maybe you havent yet, but i have. im at peace. not shots for me bucko

>>13597969

'read the text as its written' you have turned your mind off and resorted to a cue-phrase. get out of that cult

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302af1 No.13598045

>>13598042

shit, bumped.

Remember, in 'post options' you can check the box that says "do not bump". that's amazing.

putting 'sage' in the email field helps too.

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39d087 No.13598051

>>13598027

But the kikes who sought to kill him were the baby mutilators? You dont make sense

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09fea1 No.13598058

>>13598027

you snip my son i snip your son, eye for eye, god taught them that

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3a0891 No.13598061

i see the kikes found this chan too? either way cool story nigger but you'll still bend the knee before the Christ

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09fea1 No.13598074

>>13598061

I denounce talmud and shit on jehowah

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302af1 No.13598078

>>13598074

the other guy wont

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fb8c5a No.13598084

File: b8506213b16d254⋯.jpg (99.56 KB,960x720,4:3,1659842736508177.jpg)

File: a520690a7ba96bb⋯.jpg (19.29 KB,480x360,4:3,1659842771105017.jpg)

File: 1b5962be6b4bb7c⋯.png (164.76 KB,1857x854,1857:854,1659842948119367.png)

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09fea1 No.13598094

>>13598078

All I get is ad hominems, noone engages actual point that bible says jesus ordered baby mutilation and worshiping such character is moraly wrong.

Russian tried by straight out ignoring 80% and focusing how jewsus dna isnt jewish without any proof like thqt changes fact that order was given and worshiping that is weird

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39d087 No.13598106

>>13598094

>bible says jesus ordered baby mutilation

It doesnt and youve already been debunked

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09fea1 No.13598117

>>13598106

How?

Bible has 1 god that ordered it and god is jesus? Tell me what is not true there without becoming heretic

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2e1414 No.13598147

>>13596533

To deny the verses saying you no longer need to be circumcised in the new covenant is to deny the divine influence of the Bible and is the same as denying God.

At that point you could say "well they wrote this is the word of God, but a man wrote that, and I don't trust the man" and choose to take only what you agree with. In fact you deny the words of the men who brought you the gospel, it is the same as denying Jesus.

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877574 No.13598156

File: 9778b6325fa2fe4⋯.png (1.91 MB,1336x798,668:399,circumcision.png)

>>13596533

Ask yourself this, would Jesus really force you to mutilate your own penis?

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2e1414 No.13598159

>>13598106

NTA but holy trinity. Jesus is God. Learn more theology scrub

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09fea1 No.13598166

>>13598147

I accept that biblical god changed his mind, ok.

He still ordered it though, why you avoid it.

If I rape you for 10 years and then stop. I still raped you.

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2e1414 No.13598179

>>13598166

Yeah but if you spent 3,000 years raping Jewish people I wouldn't care as much

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39d087 No.13598185

>>13598159

>>13598117

Jesus is the Son of God, an avatar of the infinite creator. Nowhere in the bible does it say that Jesus commanded circumcision.

If you want to argue for the old testament that was spoken against in the new testament, go for it. We already went over that though. Im not interested in this circular argument you keep doing while deflecting the facts of the matter.

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88abe1 No.13598285

>>13598117

Nigger, circumcision was a covenant with the tribe of Abraham. You know what a "covenant" is? It's a contract. You understand the difference between a contract and a law?

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702e12 No.13598719

>>13596533

The god of the bible is the devil, satan whose name is Samael and not Jesus Christ.

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09fea1 No.13598986

>>13598285

Did god of bible order it? Yes.

>>13598185

Is there more than 1 god in christianity? No. So jesus is god and god ordered it in bible. You can check in bible genesis 17 10.

>>13597963

Wrong. See

>>13596600

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09fea1 No.13598992

>>13598285

Covenant sounds like a pact to me. Pact in baby blood.

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e277e9 No.13599100

>>13596533

Circumcision does not exclusively mean penis things as western nobrain dumbfucks are programmed to believe. It means to “cut around”. In older religious texts it is said to circumcise the heart. What do you think that means? People deliberately misinterpret scripture in order to mock and refuse to understand, because then they’d have to find something else to dismantle to falsely boost their delusions of superiority. Learn the ancient meanings of these words before you open your mouth and embarrass yourself in front of adults.

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09fea1 No.13599127

>>13599100

So you claim that circumcisiom before did not exist. Can you back it up because we have penis cutting deciptions and tools since forver.

When did this spiritual cut became penis cut? Do you argue that jews did not cut penis?

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e277e9 No.13599154

>>13599127

Hmmmm I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. I said in scripture the occurrence of the word is not inherently associated with things to do with the penis. Things to do with the penis exist symbolically separate from the fact. The scripture is not saying “do something with your penis”, it is saying to circumcise thyselves, circumcise thy heart etc.

However the way you’re putting words in my mouth shows me that there is genuinely no sense in arguing with you, since you are more keen to create a strawman and tear that down, than to discuss things objectively and on an equal playing field. I’m going to assume it’s either because of something in your blood that compels you to speak this way (if you catch my drift), your age, or that you’re just a bot. Regardless good luck with your thread. Theres nothing else for me to say. These are unfortunately the limitations created by language and the way it changes and is understood differently over time.

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09fea1 No.13599174

>>13599154

Lets clarify. Does biblical passsge genesis 10-12 mean to cut 8 day old boys foreskin? How do you spiritually circumcise 8 day old baby? He cant even understand what spirituality is then. Its most likely physical act, no?

This is actual verses:

10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring

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09fea1 No.13599188

>>13599154

>Regardless good luck with your thread. Theres nothing else for me to say.

fair enough. thanks. good luck to you as well.

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e277e9 No.13599204

>>13599154

I will however of course add that I don’t disagree, Protestants and modern lukewarm sects have certainly interpreted these things in a less spiritual sense. The same goes for the use and meaning of the word Israel. American Protestants saying “I support Israel because the Bible told me to” are misinterpreting the word Israel with no historic or etymological knowledge of the word - they genuinely think that the Bible says to support the Jews who live in the state of Israel. The truth is that the word is making reference to those who are taken into the fold of God’s elect, not a nation of Jews established by western elites in the 1940s. So I do agree that many Christians will act exactly the way you are now criticizing. But they too are using modernist, literalist interpretations of these words. So you would both sides be arguing on false premises.

All atheists in the past 30 years have managed to dismantle and attack are already foolish sects of social Christians who are divorced entirely from spiritual discernment and understanding. Essentially, some retards have called other retards, retards. Good for them.

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55de95 No.13599212

File: cd7db44bfa7d297⋯.jpg (175.04 KB,879x603,293:201,1563478031040.jpg)

>>13596533

>"You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign that your parents are chuds that believe everything they read in books"

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09fea1 No.13599222

>>13599154

what makes me speak how I speak. mostly the mental gymnastics I get as answers to genuinely simple logic. For me, I like truth, truth is geniously simple, genius and fool both see it. And when people dont see it on purpose, eyes wide shut mode, this makes me double down with even more simplified question, then they leave…

Its obvious man, 1 god 1 book book says god ordered soething. Just because its not nice to swallow for you it doesnt mean you get to shit on truth, even in name of jew god

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041631 No.13599235

Not these spammers again, fedora Kike trannies killed deadchan and now they are killing this site.

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09fea1 No.13599244

>>13599222

I had many talks about this with many christians and no not all are like most of replies here. There were a few who genuinely liked the truth and said, yes. Its in bible, yes jesus is god of bible. I dont like it I dont know why god did it. I will keep beleiving regardless.

This guy I respected at least he was honest even though stubborn

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09fea1 No.13599250

>>13599235

why cant I just be an antisemite? I dont like semitic spirituality. Why cant this be the case? Fuck talmud torrah and jehowwah allahs and all that desert shit.

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0c5e44 No.13599274

>>13596533

If you haven't been baptized and received the Holy Spirit in the manner of the disciples in the New Testament, you do not have the necessary faculties, equipment, and experience to judge the apostles of the son of God. If you have, you would not be judging the apostles of the son of God.

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39d087 No.13599288

>>13599250

>>13599244

>>13599222

>1 god 1 book

Genesis is 1 of 66 books in the bible. Your reductionist view is blind to nuance.

>Genesis 17 10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

>11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

>12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

This covenant was done away with through Christ. He makes it very clear in the new testament that the adherence to the vanity laws of the old covenant had caused people to err away from God and entering Heaven.

Now, why would he choose circumcision for his covenant? The practical reasons I can see during the time of Abraham was cleanliness and limiting the beastial nature of human sexuality. In modern times its clearly barbaric genital mutilation, especially with acts like metzitzah b'peh where rabbis suck blood from the baby.

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3a0891 No.13599351

File: 3d12a0681488356⋯.jpg (229.09 KB,1240x1618,620:809,Shroud_Turin_negative.jpg)

>>13598094

you know whats ad hominem? insulting and mocking Christ whose values built the civilization you live in and that now crumbles to dust precisely due to the departure from faith of its people

you're not interested in truth, you're here to ridicule believers for positions you consider not worthy an argument because in your arrogance you lack the humility to know and understand God

tldr you're a fag

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09fea1 No.13599522

>>13599351

I am insulting by saying he is one god of bible and that bible says god ordered it…its not an insult to say the sky is blue. Its just truth.

You dont use ad hominems and tell me if this is not true and why would I want to worship that?? Its childishly simple qurstion.

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09fea1 No.13599544

>>13599274

I have and I still say it is wrong and I dont want to be a part of it.

>>13599288

>Now, why would he choose circumcision for his covenant? The practical reasons I can see during the time of Abraham was cleanliness and limiting the beastial nature of human sexuality. In modern times its clearly barbaric genital mutilation, especially with acts like metzitzah b'peh where rabbis suck blood from the baby.

checked, i have no idea its fucked up, also cleanliness is a myth it would make more sense to cut finger tips because nails get much dirtier. Also women make more smegma and they also lived in desert and had no problems. The downside is permanent brain trauma, shitty sex and bonding, possible complications and so much more

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b3fdeb No.13599713

File: af04dc66963f39e⋯.jpg (225.25 KB,1800x2102,900:1051,fat_guys_want_to_grill.jpg)

>>13596533

>"You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you."

no wonder they put him on a cross

if someone wants you to self mutilate for a god, they worship demons and moloch

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d57519 No.13599910

>>13596533

He said gentiles shouldn't do it. Timothy is jewish. His mother was a jew

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09fea1 No.13600038

>>13599910

yeah for practical reasons. Timothy’s mother was Jewish, and his father was Greek. Paul knew they would be working among Jewish communities, and if Timothy wasn’t circumcised, it would have caused scandal and closed doors for their mission.

In short: poor tim got snipped because saul was strategizing

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fb8c5a No.13600931

File: 6b202714d37a58c⋯.png (132.82 KB,946x499,946:499,1648600031996.png)

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332d98 No.13600984

File: 41d2b23d623baff⋯.png (351.55 KB,1888x917,1888:917,fifty_milly_get.png)

Remember brothers, (((they))) would not be spamming these threads if they were not afraid. Notice how we didn't have kike posts the first two days of migration.

8kun makes it really easy to filter using options on the top right, just ignore and filter them. You can also filter tripfags and IDs by clicking the black triangle on the top left of posts.

Happy Easter!

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09fea1 No.13601766

>>13600984

My get OP is greater kek

Also why am I spamming. I come here. I see jewish chrisrcuckery I reveal my power level and shed truth to the dark jewishness.

You call it shilling I call it being normal

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50cb84 No.13610488

File: ef78f411826759d⋯.jpg (190.59 KB,900x825,12:11,1743276352652119.jpg)

>>13596533

Timothy's circumcision was to give him credibility among the Jews he was set to proselytize to, who otherwise would have been less likely to listen to him, knowing that his father was a Greek. He certainly didn't have to do it, just like he didn't have to evangelize to those Jews, but he did. He was following Jesus's example by patronizing the customs of the people he was evangelizing to. Just like Jesus did not have to be born in a manger and live the life of a servant in a human form.

There are several mentions in Paul's letters that you don't have to have your foreskin circumcised, and that it won't do you any good. Timothy's circumcision was a practical means of gaining the respect of a community that he was to evangelize to.

If I was to follow the example of Jesus, who lowered himself to relate to humanity, and Timothy's example, which continued that pattern, I would provide references to every verse in the New Testament, which are easily found, to support this. But I'm not going to , because I don't feel like it, but maybe the contrast between my indolence, and the examples set by Jesus, and Timothy, will underscore this point.

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