/loomis/ - Art Gains

This is literally the only art-themed board that's remotely active, sad to say. Painting is well within the scope of this board but because the board's population is somewhere between 10 and 0 our individual interests are all over the place. There is a single trad painter here who posts from time to time who is generally helpful, though

>>12029

I actually want to get into painting but I want to learn to fucking draw first

>>12042

That's where most of us are at so you're in good company I guess. Where are you at as far as that goes?

>>12028

God dammit she looks great flat.

>>12050

Her face is so much better.

>>12050

Mango ver looks cute and tomboyish, anime ver just looks like a bimbo with fingerless gloves.

>>12042

can do both at same time. ctrl paint is pretty basic and straightforward. no reason to work with pencils and lineweights and rendering if you just want to paint.

Anyone here have experience joining artist guilds and taking their classes?

>>12065

Any classes you take make sure the work being put out by the instructors is good. Not sure about artist’s guilds but I’ve heard anecdotes of people walking into lifedrawing sessions at universities and only having to pay for the individual session itself (presumably to help cover the model)

>>12068

>I’ve heard anecdotes of people walking into lifedrawing sessions at universities and only having to pay for the individual session itself

Why do that, when you can just visit art studios? All studios I've been to offered open studio sessions. You could just drop in and pay for few hours of drawing. Just search internet for 'open studio figure drawing' or select your state on artmodelbook.com/figure-drawing-directory.htm and see what's listed.

Besides, many universities just attach few figure drawing sessions to one of their art fundamentals courses, so it's tough to find out when and where they would be held. That is, if they did not drop figure drawing completely.

>Get contacted for work by a studio

>Guy says they really like my work and asks if i would like to do some work with them, no payment though

>"Why the fuck would i work for free?"

>I have some free time, and maybe they have a big enough following i can use for """exposure"""

>Try to search for the guy or the studio

>Only a facebook page.

Don't fucking call yourself a STUDIO if you're just a guy with a facebook page, trying to get free commissions.

While i got my hopes high for nothing, i got also nervous for one thing: What should i do in a real case? How much would you ask for making dunno, a series of posters/splash screens for a game? If they asked you to work on a comic what type of contract should you look for? How do you tackle the artist business world?

>>12096

>no payment though

Literally never do this, unless it's for an extremely close friend or something like that-and even then it's pretty dubious. You are much more likely to make your own exposure by doing work for yourself. Don't let people, especially not those purporting to represent businesses, cheat you out of your own free time.

I don't even post my art on facebook anymore because I'm sick of being solicited by people that think I'm going to draw their "x" for free based on my embarassingly shitty anatomy studies and figure drawings

So I was at Walmart and holy shit they have canvases. Does anyone knoe if they are any good? It seems like it would be hard to fuck up canvas.

>>12154

Didnt buy from them, but they have pretty much everything michels and amazon have. Strathmore bristol, etc. I imagine the canvases are the same brands and quality as you can get from anywhere else.

>>12154

When it comes to canvases there are some things to consider. First you want to know if it's linen or cotton, go for linen whenever possible. The next is the grain, light grain is more expensive and doesn't "hold" the paint as well, down to personal preference what you prefer. The next is what priming is used. Most of what you find is often acrylic primed and some people like it. It absorbs oil from the paint and has its own kind of behavior. It's "safe" in some ways because it's harder to over-load the canvas with oil, however you have to deal with much more sinking-in. The traditional method is oil primed. They behave very differently, oil primed is more slippery and lets the paint flow much more on the canvas. It also has more variety if you make your own, it's also much more stable long-term in both flexibility and adhesion.

There is the option of only working on a sized canvas and it has some very cool properties. Artists from Velazquez to Dagnan Bouveret often did this but it would be considered a more advanced technique.

>>12160

Yeah, I heard there is a company that sells traditionally gessoed canvas, but acrylic is fine with me. I'll probably use that super cheap canvas board until I get good enough to make something worth keeping, then switch to stretched canvas. Maybe if I get really into this I'll try stretching my own canvas and making hide glue to size and and make traditional gesso.

>see hints of purple, blue, even green sometimes in graphite

>see brown in charcoal

Got me thinking, is there a relationship colours have with certain greys and blacks? Not just that they can be tinted, but inherently have some of x colour in them to make a pure looking grey? Might be a retarded question but with the way lots of colours mixed tend to make a muddy brown, I wondered if greyscale isn't really so separate to colour, or if that's just a way we think of things. Hope the question makes sense even if it's stupid.

>>12169

Are you asking about the different blacks? Ivory/bone black tends to be a brownish gray when mixed with white, while lamp black tends to be a purer black that just forms a plain gray when mixed with white. Very few colors are 'pure.' That's often when you mix supposedly complementary colors you don't end up with true grey.

Does /loomis/ still participate in the attention hungry games?

>>12232

Does somebody actually need to participate? We won it once and I did’nt do sh*t

>>12232

>>12239

I think most drawfags already know about this board. It just isn't as attractive as localized draw threads.

How can I make money drawing porn?

>>12322

Being good at it-or going into depths of depravity unmatched by any other

>>12322

Ask yourself what you like about your favorite doujin artists.

>>12323

>>12329

I wonder if you could make money off of vanilla. Looking at an artist like Mado, who does like 95% guro but his best shit is mostly vanilla and generally a lot of people love his vanilla shit. But then again I guess doujin artists are mostly hobbyists and will probably prefer to draw their depraved specific fetish rather than what will make them the most dosh.

>>12329

>>12323

I don't have a favourite doujin artist, I just heard I could make a lot of money by drawing conquistadors railing latinas and nazis railing jewish women.

>>12349

In that case you could try to take the Shadman path I suppose.

>>12373

They're pretty cheap so why not?

>mfw I ordered a fountain pen, water brush pens, ink etc. and amazon sent me everything but the pen itself

What a fackin' joak

>>12373

Just make sure you're buying appropriate ink for it and take care of it. Not all inks are suitable for a fountain pen and if you happen to choose the wrong type it can clog and potentially ruin your pen. What dip pens lack in convenience with supplying ink they make up for in ease of maintainance. So there's a trade off if you choose dips instead. Using any in general can take time to get used to but is a lot of fun.

>>12410

Dobson is a prime example of why you don't want to pander to SJWs who talk big but never put their money where their mouth is.

>>12410

imagine being so fat you look at social justice and see food

>>12410

Furries and porn degenerates with specific fetishes.

>>12410

footfags

>>12464

The thing seems to be to post your shit on twitter and hope people like your art enough to commission. You should generally be trying to expose yourself to your target audience as much as possible so you're gonna have to research on self promotion. You should also have a place people can see your portfolio.

>>12464

Post your work

>>12466

I don't know. Also it's like 80 bucks ffs. I feel it has good drawing tools but its animation timeline is clumsy in my opinion

>>12474

Your cynicism is admirable but also depressing. Also that explains why Cho cuckced to the SJW's recently.

>>12474

Not that guy, but thank you for the comprehensive post.

Give me good skeleton resources.

>>12502

>My problem is that at the points where I connect two strokes there is always a visible seam

It sounds like you need to familiarize yourself with different brushes. You want to sketch with a nice low-to mid opacity brush of some sort (I like something with some texture but some people just use a hard round) and then you go in over it with an "inking" brush which is a pure black thing that usually tapers to a fine point based on pressure.

>>12502

Get a g-pen brush.

>>12502

>points where I connect two strokes there is always a visible

Don't hesitate to overlap with your first stroke when drawing the second stroke. Remember, you also need speed in your stroke in order to draw a smooth lengthy line.

How do I make Art Friends online. Seriously.

>>12506

I don't see a point of it as I don't intend to use weighted lines, actually this would be reverse of what I need - completely even line.

>>12505

I use just normal round brush of width 2 for inking but it doesn't seem hard enough. Pencil type on the other hand is too hard. Can you recommend anything?

>>12509

The seam is mostly due to overlapping. The soft edges of the brush overlap and create a visible seam.

>>12513

Photoshop's brushes are really blurry no matter what you do to them, I wouldn't recommend Photoshop if your intention is to draw in anime style. If you want sharp lines then your best bet is to zoom out to 50% or so. In fact I recommend that in general, it's good to draw with a big canvas while zoomed out, you'll have more room to add detail and you won't accidentally end up with a disappointingly small image.

I don't really understand this "seam" problem, firstly because it's hard to imagine what it looks like unless you post an image, and secondly because the image you posted has very half assed lineart. Also that image clearly uses a pressure sensitive brush if you look closely enough, there's all kinds of line width variation.

>>12516

Seriously there's no easy way to this traditionally rather than practice. This is why I try to keep my lineart completed as possible in one stroke rather than 2 stroke in 1 line. I only combine strokes at the corner or at the big rounded arc, depends on how lengthy it is. If you zoom at pic related in >>12502 closely, the lineart is not really that perfect either. This shows you the artist who drew it is really a human, not pre rendered by a machine. If this really still bugs you, another way to fix it is by using vector graphic software.

>>12517

is this photoshop and if so what brush settings are these?

this also doesn't look black but dark brown

>>12519

It's Krita. I had a dark red color selected, not that it's relevant.

>>12516

You're way overthinking this, because the problems you see in your linework are not going to be apparent to anyone but you in the end. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm saying that most people are not going to notice or care. In the end this is trivial, a distraction from what you should actually be focusing on- that is improving your art as a whole.

Besides that, I'd agree with >>12514 that photoshop is not your best choice for anime style work, try paint tool sai or clip studio paint. I helped improve my linework through contour drawing exercises and drawing with a pen. You learn to think about where to put the marks before you make them so you make less mistakes and therefore feel the need to erase less, or make scratchy lines.

>>12530

are they both better than krita? And I did the dynamic drawing thing very hard and it helped to improve a lot. My lines aren't always exactly as I want all the time but I need to try only a couple of times to get a line I want.

>>12512

Depends on what you mean by friends. If you want to be on a casual 'first-name basis' with some art bros, just slide some occasional comments under their social media posts and they might eventually reciprocate. If you're looking for some other whiny faggot to commiserate with; don't. Most stable adults are too busy to chat for hours in AIM every night.

>>12516

Work on a bigger canvas with an equally bigger brush size. Use the pencil with opacity at 100% and the hardness at 90 ~ 95% (maybe down to 85 for taste).

>>12532

contour drawing is different. You draw the outside (the contours) and restate your lines as opposed to erasing- and you are not allowed to erase or undo your lines. it just corners you into putting more thought into mark making.

I don't have much experience with krita. Sai is a simple program with an easy UI, getting brush packs is not all that difficult either. Or sometimes people post images of the brush settings they use and you can just edit your settings to those.

Csp is the goto for manga art and illustration. You can easily make frames and use guides and rulers to draw lines. They also have familiar pen and brush settings for those kinds of illustrations. I've always stuck with sai, it's uncomplicated and doesn't bog the cpu.

>>12547

>contour drawing is different. You draw the outside (the contours) and restate your lines as opposed to erasing- and you are not allowed to erase or undo your lines. it just corners you into putting more thought into mark making.

I don't understand

>>12555

there are multiple aspects to drawing

one is knowledge of objects that you're going to draw for example anatomy and it will be applicable no matter the technique. It's about the shape color and texture.

second is perspective

I think perspective is mostly matter of trying and seeing if it looks bad if it doesn't look bad then it probably still looks bad but most people won't notice

third is about shading and lighting that is mostly transformative between the objects but is dependant on your technique

fourth is knowledge of your medium or software

there are some more that I forgot or less important like composition because composition won't save you at beginner skill level and only very few can appreciate composition also most of what I wrote here is wrong and my fanfiction

just fucking imagine what do you want your drawing to look like and then try drawing it

>>12559

I'm more interested in working towards drawing something like the second image, never been interested in art like the first one.

Any good books you could suggest on learning anatomy?

>>12560

with anime style, anatomy goes out of the fucking picture most of the things youd expect to be on a body just don't exist or are proportioned weirdly or less prominent. just go with what you think looks good

you don't need to do anything in particular just when you watch porn try to pay some attention to parts of the body you normally wouldn't. I reference pictures of naked girls a lot too. You can reference anatomy books like some autists, but the level of detail you learn from there won't be of much use unless you want to draw very prominent muscles.

>>12555

Draw a box lesson 1 is a good starting spot. Virtually the entire site steals from How to Draw by Scott Robertson and condenses it with some simple youtube demonstrations.

The main thing you want to do starting out is learn how to draw straight lines and basic line weight and pen control. Drawabox steals many of these from How to Draw (who didnt originate them, but I think its one of the first ot have them all laid out in a book and not follow traditional art school syllabus), but the point is they are good.

Start with the straight edged lines. Practice tracing over it with a finerliner. Wobbly lines mean you are going too slow. Tails where the line veers off from the line near the end mean you are drawing too fast. Fill a page or two of these every day until you get basic pen control. Focus on starting with heavy line, lessen over the middle and then finish with harder pressure and stop exactly at the end of the line (ie dont go past or stop short where you intended to stop).

This builds muscle memory and pen control. You want to work on drawing from the shoulder (lock the wrist and elbow), from the elbow (lock the wrist) and different pen holding techniques, like tripod grip, holding around the middle of the pencil, underhand grip, overhand, etc. Depends on what you want to do. If using finerliner, you'll use the tripod grip primarily though. Just how those inking pens work.

From here, you can learn basic shapes of cube, cylinder and sphere. Virtually everything can be created from these three shapes. The simple practice in perspective is a very good start and will help guide you going forward.

Again, this is all stolen for drawabox lessons, but those are free and online with video reference. Do the first lesson if you are complete beginner and you should have a very solid foundation to move to whatever else you want or continue with his lessons or try other, better books and so on.

I recommend still life and compositions, but some consider it boring. Just set up some fruit and plates on a table and adjust the light and try to draw it from different angles and with different shadows/lighting. You'd lay out hte basic shapes of spheres for the apples/oranges, ellipses for a banana (connect outside edges to form the final shape), etc. Use a light line weight and then go back over with heavier weight for details.

Tracing is a very good start too. You dont just randomly trace. You want to observe and practice the line weight used by what you traced and question why they did it that way. Identify light sources and perspective lines of what you trace. You can do simple tracings of a single tree with a rock on a hill and still identify this. You dont have to trace some complex image or object. The point is to identify line weights, practice making the same lines and build muscle memory for those motions. You shouldnt be going super slow trying to be perfect reproduction - see line, identify how it was made (heavy stroke that trails off or some lines can clearly see the stroke directions, etc), draw line.

Innate skill can dictate what you do next, too. If you have basic art skills with no training, you could move onto drawing humans or complex scenes. You could look into composition or more perspective or if you have interest in architecture or landscape you can do those types of scenes.

Alphonse Dunn does some good ink tutorials if you like finerliner or hate using pencils. They apply to pencil work, too, but he does most in ink. Zoe Hong does fashion work, but her tutorials are applicable to all gesture and pose artwork. Even teaches how to stylize basic proportions and gestures for fashion (usually 10 heads, but also shows how to expand the gesture to be more dynamic or how to take normal proportions and exaggerate curves - very useful for comics or developing your own style while also learning the basic anatomy). She doesnt go into heavy anatomy either - discusses what you need to know for fashion style art (ankle bones, where body parts line up, certain muscle groups, etc but you arent studying every single muscle or anything crazy).

Scott Roberston's books and youtube are good, too. How to Draw and How to Render (dont think 3d/computer - this is shadows and details in art terms) are excellent.

Anatomy for the Artist is a good anatomy book. You might want to go into that in more detail later, but I wouldnt rush out to do it - something to do after you get your feet wet and drawing waht you want/like first.

Drawing Perspective: How to See It and How to Apply It is a good perspective book, though you can find similar youtube and free tutorials on perspective online. Perspective is always important and will be needed for every type of art.

>>12560

>>12562

The "easiest" way is to learn to think of the drawing as 3D forms, because it helps you reason about everything else, it's useful especially for drawing the body, and is also very useful when you want to add shading. You don't need to be able to draw perfect 3D models, just the ability to think of the object as having a 3D shape is enough. However depending on art style you may need to ignore 3D space in certain situations, the best example would be anime eyes.

https://drawabox.com/ seems to be the go-to tutorial for practicing the basics on shapes and perspective.

Another way is to just draw, and use references to adjust your knowledge. It's possible to learn to draw people as 2D shapes, but I wouldn't personally recommend it because it's inherently limiting in many ways.

Don't know of any books for anatomy, I don't think there are any very good ones. I just collect images that seem useful, and look at those when I'm having trouble drawing some part of the body. There's a ton of little details in the body that are hard to "get educated on", you just have to draw long enough and try hard enough to discover them. I also don't recommend books on anatomy specifically, learning individual muscles and shit will probably only confuse you and cause you to draw wrong things until you're more familiar with drawing the body.

Another thing you may struggle with is proportions, for example making the torso too short or head too small/large are common problems, though I don't know how to practice those other than trying to match them to a reference. It's sometimes surprising how wrong you're drawing them.

>>12552

It's mostly gone over in the book, Keys to Drawing, by Bert Dodson. It's also a method used to help you draw what you see. Contours, being the outside shape of your drawing. Restating meaning instead of erasing a line you messed up on, you keep your pen to the paper and just draw back over it how you think it is correct. Not lifting your pen or pencil is an important part of the exercise.

>>12601

looks like he just put a filter across the whole image. same effect is through the clothing and other parts. probably just made some gaussian blur or other random effect on a layer, dropped opacity and multiplied or something. he didnt draw it if you were wondering. Alternative could be a brush with same thing as the brush pattern he custom made/downloaded.

>>12601

>>12603

The clothes clearly have a texture on top. The highlights look like they were made with a textured brush, probably a generic soft brush with a grainy/noisy texture.

>>12603

>>12604

that's why I am asking

myself I can see at least 3 ways to do this

a premade noisy layer that uses the copy of highlight layer as mask with a blending mode different than normal

same thing but using pattern overlay

using textured brushes

the textured brush thing is the one I have no idea about but from grainyness and spread i'd guess it's aerobrush

still I have no idea how to even begin replicating any of the ways since I don't have a noisy layer or a way to replicate it because I can't use textured brushes to replicate it

>>12601

Look up “how to use texture without looking like a douche” by peter mohrbacher/“onevox” on youtube

You can like, take a picture of a bowling ball and integrate it into your image in a way that looks spectacular

>>12606

Thanks you made me realise that this texture reminds me of guitar finishes or like a sparkly bowling ball

Anyone use copics or draw comics/ink images on bristol (strathmore 300 11x17 is what I use typically)? I was looking for some cheaper alternatives in bulk/reams on Amazon and was hoping someone had experience with other paper types. Stratmore 300 11x17 is about $20 for 24 pages for me usually.

Hammermill Paper, Premium Color Copy Cover Cardstock, 17x11 Paper, 80lb Paper, 100 Bright is 250 pages for about $30. They list it at Heavy Paper, Card Stock White, but reviews claim its about half the thickness of other paper theyve used and not true 80lb paper. Still worked well with copics and inks for most reviewers. Was also looking at 8.5x11 for smaller prints I could do.

Accent Opaque, Smooth Cover White, 80lb, Ledger, 11 x 17, 97 Bright, 200 Sheets is another one I was looking at. Similar price point of $30.

I dont have a printer or scanner with quality for scanning for digital touchups and printing back onto the boards, so how they print isnt a factor to me. Just curious how they hold india ink and copic/alcohol markers and if anyone has other possible bulk suggestions that might suit my needs.

>>12697

Simplicity is simple, but mastering it is not. You need to learn attractive shapes and proportions and color palettes and how to balance it all. It has a lot in common with graphic design, so it's not very compatible with your typical loomis/concept art style learning practices.

>>12710

I think you exaggerated the laziness quite a bit there.

So i've recently got my first tablet (Wacom intuous medium) and I'm finding that I can't really use my elbow or shoulder when drawing. Any attempt to usually ends up wobbly and generally most lines I make I'm finding I only need my wrist. This seems like an awfully bad habit so I was wondering if the tablet I got was too small (it's about 10 inches) or if I just need to stick at it and be disciplined trying to get used to using my arm on the tablet and making shit lines.

>>12741

you dont need to use your elbow or shoulder on a 10" surface. use your wrist 100% of the time when you can make a line in the range of your wrist's motion. you use your elbow to draw when the distance is too far for a continuous line from the wrist. you use the shoulder when the elbow cant make one continuous motion. you dont draw iwth your shoulder for 1" lines. if you have a canvas or work at a desk with 11x17 boards, etc, you would use longer lines and motion from the elbow would be better in many cases. drawing from the shoulder is something you will rarely ever see done by pros. go watch any live streams of art. they might use elbow when doing gestures or rough lines and free flowing in construction phase, but all go to wrist for the final lines/inks.

drawing from shoulder is a meme. you dont work at sizes that require that and is only something painting really makes use of or certain styles (stuff like ink brush/japanese type shit, etc), which are basically painting, too. you have a 10" surface. you might use your elbow once in a blue moon for a line on it. stop listening to memes about shoulder drawing.

>>12746

Standard multi-use (printer) paper. Get some affordable pencils with a harder (than 2B) lead in them for construction & refinement, and/or a mechanical pencil you like that you can swap different leads with. Erasers are also important. Get a Pink Pearl or Mars Plastic or similar.

Don't spend a lot of money you don't need to.

>>12746

pick up a ream of bristol smooth. Accent Opaque Digital Cover White Smooth, 120lb, 8.5 x 11, Letter, 150 Sheets is less than $20. I use the 11x17 size for roughly same price. excellent for pencils, inks, copics, or anything else you want to throw at it.

amazon has lots of cheap reams of paper like this. just search by 120lb white smooth or cardstock and youll bring up most.

>>12322

I was looking at some Patroens and a good one can make $500 a month, hardly enough to live on but I guess they do commissions too.

>>12559

>Anything regarding shading/painting skills and perspective goes out the window as well.

Perspective still plays a major role unless you are only drawing standing shots facing dead straight which nobody is going to only do.

>>12561

>with anime style, anatomy goes out of the fucking picture

Anatomy is also still important, Anime characters are still based off humans and all their anatomy reflects on this it is just adjusted but often not even that much.

How much time drawing is enough practice every day? I do from 2 to 4 hours almost every day

>>12794

Depends on what you consider practice. Drawing random furry porn isnt practice, even if you do it 9 hours a day.

>>12800

Random furry porn is GOOD, redart!

>>12800

Recently I've lately had a revelation about how terrible my art is and how I can improve by not lazing out on real studying, so it's 50% messing around and 50% serious stuff

Probably a stupid question but it's natural to find some strokes more awkward than others such as strokes towards the upper left as opposed to strokes towards the upper right. Are we supposed to train in the awkward strokes, manipulate the surface so that if we have to draw an awkward stoke we rotate ourself or the surface and draw a comfortable line or do we do both.

What's better to improve with: Tablet or pencil/paper?

Or doesn't it matter so long as I'm drawing in general?

>>12817

pencil and paper is better. lots of auto and parallax correction from software and you end up setting tolerance levels for easy line weight differences and brushes handle all the heavy lifting for types of lines you want and you dont build the same tactile muscle memory that physically drawing does for you.

>>12812

Yes. Rotate your paper or canvas or whatever if you need to. No-one is going to haul you off to artists' prison.

Is anime drawing symbol drawing or 3d construction? It has perspective and anatomy so one would think you could construct it from the loomis method but in speed draws I have seen they don't seem too and many of the lines are 'symbolic'. I'm not sure what I should focus my own efforts towards, Loomis type drawing or learning the symbols and how they interact and such.

>>12817

Depends on the Tablet. I use an Ipad which is basically like writing on paper but I also have a screen less Intouto which is quite awkward to use unless you get used to it(I just gave up), I would find that very hard to learn how to draw on.

But at the end of the day, drawing is drawing, doing something is better than nothing.

>>12849

'Symbol drawing' is a shitty, often miss-used term that seems to cause more confusion than anything. Understanding shapes is of paramount importance no matter what your drawing. You don't need to follow loomis necessarily, but you have to understand the form of what you want to draw. Start with the basics of drawing in 3D if you have no concept of this. If you can't draw basic shapes from multiple angles, you're going to have a real hard time drawing anything else.

>>12900

Draw enough people with clothes on that you can start seeing wrinkles in three dimensions and drawing/shading them properly. Draw from reference and pay attention to groups of wrinkles, try Hogarth's book on it.

>>12901

What book?

>>12902

Dynamic Clothing and drapery - Burne Hogarth, it's in the resource hub in the sticky:

https://mega.nz/#F!es1BSKQR!spODyd0iaQmMelGA2GscFw

It's in books > reference and beginners > clothing. I'd say you should draw his illustrations as you read along but it may be too difficult. Either way, I think the most important think you can get from this is the way he assigns wrinkles to different clusters, and the different kinds of wrinkle clusters there are. Best of luck anon.

>>12903

Thanks.

>>12906

Thanks for the links.

Where can I get good real life references, they are never as natural or candid as anime images are.

>>12934

you can learn to draw

>>12968

Life drawing supplements almost all drawing, yeh

>>12968

If you are using pencil/pen and ink, every single artist draws from the wrist. On the very rare occasion, they will do a line from the elbow. If you are doing painting or some caligraphy-like ink work, you'll draw from the elbow and occasionally shoulder if its a very large canvas. You can watch any artist on youtube drawing and its all from the wrist.

During construction, you shouldnt use tripod. You are just doing light lines and want free flowing lines, so youd probably be better off gripping about half way up and can do more elbow lines, but its not required either.

Drawing from life is a meme. This isnt the 1400s. You can take pictures and find references. Just realize photos that are done for professional photography or instagram thots is has large lens distortions and lighting/shading and composition that isnt the best for drawing usually. You want better values in a photo reference. This applies to still life drawing, too. Having something completely washed out in light in a photo or in real life isnt going to make a good drawing.

Drawing from imagination typically requires knowing how the real world works. Even random monsters and mash ups like a owl bear or some shit will look better if it is 'functional' or 'realistic' in that bones and muscle should sit a certain way even in imaginary monsters. Wings on demons or angels or random monsters dont just go in random spots and wings only work because of specific physics. Bat/demon-like wings should function like a bat with a mammal arm and the webbed like wing. Look up a bat flight motion and you can see they have a completely different flight pattern from birds. Demons and dragons usually have this type of wing and having it drawn wrong or their flying like a bird is really jarring to see for anyone with basic knowledge of wings.

So while you can just draw from imagination, being "cool looking" isnt usually enough, even for cartoony or scifi/fantasy. You can start out doing whatever you want, but drawing from imagination typically requires knowledge of reality to understand what can be manipulated.

>>12971

>This isnt the 1400s

Wasn't photography invented some 400 years after?

>study anatomy via pictures

>learn that I can't draw

>study anatomy via 3D models

>learn nothing besides the eventual "oh, that's how that part works"

>try gesture

>can't do shit

How the fuck do I draw?

>>13015

Drawing from observation is just observing and recording spatial relationships using mental tools like:

Negative/Positive Space

Plumb Lines

Comparative measurement

…and so on. Take it slow and you'll understand eventually, and one day you'll be able to pull sh*t out of your big h'butt like a real n*gga.

Will being able to draw well lessen how I see the works of others and art in general? I worry that I will get good and then stop caring about artworks.

>>13026

I can't draw well yet but as I'm learning and meeting artists I'm more appreciative of artwork in general and, paradoxically, of artwork that's not quite as technically advanced.

>>13026

you'll quickly realize that every single modern manga and comic is pretty much traced 3d models and have no artistic merit. digitally painted and photobashed concept art will make you angry, especially when you see people praise that trash.

>>13030

Photobashing annoys me a lot. My mom keeps praising a colleague of hers who paints over photographs, it's infuriating.

On the other hand, even poorly-drawn art drawn with soul resonates that much more.

>>13026

You'll definitely start seeing problems with art that you never noticed before, but more than anything you'll just become better at telling why something looks wrong. Your quality standards will probably go up over time regardless of your art skill.

>>13030

>every single modern manga and comic is pretty much traced 3d models and have no artistic merit

You sure you're not just projecting your own lack of ability? Backgrounds are the main things that are sometimes traced/filtered from photos or 3D, characters are not.

What's the best angle to have your pad/canvas at when you draw? I have one of those table easels that goes from about 45 degrees to around 85 degrees.

>>13097

I've worked with horizontal, angled, pad resting on knees… And what I've found the most important to me is an easy access to my key board shortcuts.

I do weight training 4 days a week and I find it hard to fit in drawing practice on these days. Would 3 times a week be enough to become good?

>>13267

Given enough time, you can become good at anything.

If you practice more you'll become better quicker, if you practice less you'll take longer.

You can become good by drawing 3 times a week, but that might take a long time.

absolute beginner- any resources that are helpful or things that I need to work on first?

>>13273

Check sticky. I've been going through the stuff on there.

not really a question, but didnt deserve a new thread - clip studio paint is on sale for 50% off for next 3 days. has a 30 day trial if you want to try first.

>>13289

Thanks for the head's up m8.

>>13275

Looks pretty useful.

Which of those would be best to start with for somebody with more or less absolute beginner art skills?

>>13332

the NKU stuff is new and it's the most thorough but it's also really exhaustive. This is not a "made for youtube" kind of lecture series it's the real deal for better or worse.

>>13332

I've only tried the NKU stuff and "Drawing on the right side of the brain". Out of those two I would say the latter.

>be me

>conflicted against drawing mainstream stuff vs porn

>heart's part telling to draw porn and degenerates stuff + best and insta cash after converting to poorfag's cuntry

>possibility of getting fired from daily job, no other way to get commission other than selling self to paywall or relying on donations, paypal account getting frozen/caught, and spent time getting love from jailmates

>moral's part telling to draw mainstream stuff + less and long time to earn money

>barely enough food and cintiq is an impossible dream, highly competitive and no chance to outshine, taxed heavily because country's shit to artists with no stable income.

Considering I don't mind getting overworked, should I just end myself?

>>13362

Do crude, quickly drawn short comics. Something you can finish, learn from, and move on; Or decide is shit, drop, learn from, and move on. You don't want to get burnt out or disinterested in the middle of a long story.

>>13362

1. try aderall

2. artstation and deviantart are still fine. instagram is great for audience building. depends on what you want to do for other options. twitter if not doing porn can be another social media option.

3. do garbage cut and paste faces onto cut and paste bodies like stonetoss or other shit comics with basically mannequin models. literally have eyes, mouths, and noses pre made and paste them on 3d models you pose in clip paint studio.

>>13362

>I don't wanna wait until I'm 50 before I can flesh out my stories, but I also don't wanna run out of steam every time I take up drawing.

I think this anon's >>13364 advice is good, but if you really have a story you want to tell and you can't tell it in just a few pages, here's what I might recommend. Even if you have god tier art skills, a large project can take a long time and be a massive drain on you mentally. If you've only recently started learning, it will probably be even more frustrating, depending on how self-critical you are. I would suggest that you take an opportunity to practice some creative writing skills, and simply write the story out, like a novel. You can practice writing vivid descriptions of landscapes, physical appearances of characters, and more importantly, you can quickly flesh out a story from start to finish without drawing a single thing. Not only that, but you can easily alter the story dramatically without scrapping any artwork. Then, when you have the story you want to tell, all that's left is doing the illustration work (which will probably take much longer than it took to write the story).

This way you don't have to wait until your 50 to flesh out the stories. Instead, once you've figured out the story, you can start drawing as soon as you are confident enough in your skills.

>>13371

>branching out

Just do both

>>13368

This is a good idea, because I haven't been able to draw at work anymore I'm now focusing on the creative writing aspect of my own project. Speaking of that does anyone know any good writing flowchart programs?

>>13386

I've always just used a text editor because I need the feature that allows me to insert or delete text easily (especially insert) the most

How do I learn to draw if I don't know how to use my hands? I've always been extremely poor at using my hands for anything, to the point where if you gave me a pencil I could write very poor letters and I'd know how to do nothing else. A lot of guides assume you know what you're doing a pencil, and they make huge leaps in steps.

I have a feeling I'm retarded and will never be able to learn.

>>13371

Every artist references everything beyond basic shit like profile or 3/4 view type sketches. Most of the modern artists outright trace or draw over the "reference" layer. 3d models make it a joke to have any pose you want from any angle and to adjust proportions in any manner you need. There's no reason to not use a reference. Ever. If you are learning from references, as you say, you should not need to have a reference for simple composition. If you are just drawing what you see, then you arent learning from the references in the first place. Go back to basic construction and shapes of the body. Head, torso and pelvis are solid parts. Rest bend or twist or connect to them. Start with one of those pieces and the rest of the body falls into place along the line of action and plum lines.

>>13450

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMC0Cx3Uk84&feature=youtu.be&t=50s

>>13453

Thank you.

Why do people recommend Charles Bargues's book when it's clearly shit? I tried the first plate (the eyes) and it feels like I'm drawing stupid things instead of actually learning how the object I'm trying to draw is made so I can draw it better. I've had better results drawing things looking at videos of The art of wei and trying to draw people's faces than with this book.

>>13478

You're not supposed to actually use the books, just recommend them to others (don't tell anyone I said that)

>>13478

From what you've said, you've unfortunately misinterpreted the intention of the Bargue course from the beginning. It is not an "anatomy study" book or a "how to draw x" book. It is an "observational drawing" course. You are learning observational drawing fundamentals like spatial relationships, negative/positive space and so on through very carefully recording various canned one-off subjects. It should have been more apparent from the beginning but the truth is drawing one example of one thing over a long period of time such as is done in the Bargue course is not how you learn how to draw something specific it's how you learn to draw period. Specific subject matter is where Loomis et al.-and the "just draw, bro" philosophy-incorporate.

If you want a real example of shit content people recommend for some reason look at Bridgman lol

>>13479

also this

though I have gotten decently far through many books I'd only finished one book as a challenge

How much would I regret buying one of those $20 ebay tablets? Linux support is preferable, though I could afford to keep a windows machine going if I need to.

>>13492

I'd like to know that too, I've been eyeing one for some time.

>>13528

I think they're supposed to force you to focus on the essentials, maybe by not overly thinking your drawing, but really you could do that while taking your time.

>>13541

I suppose art books on composition would help. There are some in the hub, like Successful Drawing (Andrew Loomis)

>>13502

Well, I just pulled the trigger on one- so I guess you'll hear something about it.

>>13584

Ended up with Huion 420, seems decent enough so far. Works out of the box on Linux, at least on Mint- even has pressure sensitivity. You have to download a driver from their site for windows to work fully though.

>>13638

>>13502

>>13492

I have one of those tiny things. It's just hardly usable IMO.

Why do all 3D art programs suck donkey dick? They are clearly not made to be used by humans, especially blender.

>>13651

I've seen Blender fans complain that they had use a mouse with other 3D programs instead of manually typing out x y and z coordinates for every point.

>>13478

Dude, they're a teaching aid. Don't have a teacher? Then that probably explains why it's not going well.

>>13803

Not at all, it's always a spur of the moment kind of thing. I'd get inspired by something and start drawing.

You guys have any favorite model, photographer, artist or websites where you get your references from?

>>13861

Croquis Cafe ("onairvideo") has this new-ish model Saturn who has good proportions for a female lead or something.

>shitty tattoos and not enough pictures though

http://www.onairvideo.com/cc-photo-archive_saturn.html

The site itself is a treasure trove with many pictures and body types. Few are as idealized as this girl though.

Can anyone recommend good books on sewing?

>>13042

that doesn't mean all of them are traced, you have urasawa naoki(monster, pluto, billy bat), hayashida q, matsumoto jiro(freesia), samurai hiroaki(blade of the immortal), yukimura makoto(vinland saga) and matsumoto taiyou(not at all realistic but I find his drawings charming. ping pong, takemitsu zamurai). Just off the top of my head.

That being said there are a number of manga that do use tracing (and, in some case it seems they just use the models directly), which is something I don't like, often times I prefer flawed drawing over that shit (like ONE's)

Thread was swallowed by the Alacrity daemon (8chan's write buffer and caching system), it should be fixed now.

How does anon rips the models reference off from this website?

https://www.posespace.com/posetool/default.aspx

And secondly how to bulk download HQ pictures from pinterest?

>>15674

There's a mass image downloader extension for Firefox but I think pinterest is arranged in such a a way where they only have individual high resolution pictures available; hypothetically you could mass download thumbnail images but that'd be stupid. I use KeepVid pro to download youtube videos I'm worried will go away or whatever which is free to pirate or $20 to buy.

It's already widely available in text though, I've seen it floating around. Even had it saved before I got the book. You've got the whole thing here, except In the book the latter part about the medium he uses is actually separated to a different page. If you still want it in picture format I could take some photos, haven't got a scanner.

https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2010/09/leyendeckers-method.html

It's a good book though, if you're that interested I can definitely recommend it. Apparently Blizzard uses it as reference for stylizing cloth folds.

>>15721

Actually, my camera isn't really up to it if you're concerned about quality. I could still do it, but I can't guarantee a good result.

>>15722

>>15723

Gotta do whatever you had I guess.

Anyway, I'm better with pictures/video more than bunch of texts, so if any of you could make a short webm on how to do it (or any other artist that correctly show his process) I'm truly appreciate it.

newfag here, gotten really sick and tired of /ic/'s blatant shitposting and I'm just looking for a board that's serious about improvement.

I've seen this place get name-dropped a few times on /ic/, but most anons there said that this place was pretty much dead. Is this true? Is there any art board out there on the chans that can count as a viable art discord?

>>15823

Welcome. I came here largely for the same reason.

I wouldn't say it's completely dead. There are some regular posters, and it seems like people at least check it occasionally. I think some long-time anons come back periodically too. It is very slow, but people are typically helpful if you ask for specific input.

Don't know of any other boards though, sorry.

>>12515

thought i made art friend

1st collab ever

i was really happy with it

thought it would make a profound statement, that might even go viral, at least in my scene

set alarm to post at peak social media engagement time this week

wait hopefully

no one gives a shit, only obligatory likes and retweets, 15 likes, everyone else blatantly ignores it

artist i collab'd with didnt even retweet it or follow back

fml im irrelevant

>>15829

this site sucks gif didnt load

>>15829

Post the collab

>>15829

You can't control these things, unfortunately

Sometimes the algorithm fucks it up too.

Shame about the artist though, that's too bad he didn't retweet it. What was the collab?

>>15868

Read the sticky

>>15868

Just start drawing. Draw simple shapes. Try to copy a picture you like. Find some beginner fundie exercises to do. You won't be good. The most important thing is to DRAW.

20 is not too late. Unless you eyesight/motorskills are deteriorating from old age or disease, it's not too late.

>>15873

Was it really drawn or was it made with a bunch of photos photoshopped together?

>>15875

You're exactly right. That's called a "matte painting" which is using photoshop to combine a bunch of unrelated pictures together and adjusting the levels, hue, saturation etc. until they look like they fit and you get your result. Not a bad skill to have I guess but definitely not something I'm personally invested in.

>>15869

just leads me back to 8ch home page

>>12028

TORfag asked if /loomis/ can enable TOR.

>>15882

Fug, maybe these would help:

https://mega.nz/#F!es1BSKQR!spODyd0iaQmMelGA2GscFw

https://mega.nz/#F!BXJkjSKI!ef2mMsm1mkj2nf3amonPEA

https://mega.nz/#F!XRF0iY7Z!VZREnIDndi-z0zphl9dCvg

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/17axpf4d7k05u/artbooks#myfiles

The first one's the /loomis/ mega if I'm not mistaken

>>15868

There's people that started in their 50s.

It's not about some ever ascending goal of Mastery it's about drawing, what you like and want to share.

>>15868

Bob Ross started in his 30's, skill is cultivated through practice, not youth.

>>15886

Didn't see this but for what it's worth now a month and a half later I've enabled it lmoa

I'm looking for hardware advice and someone on /a/ said to ask here. I'm wondering if this is a reasonable place to start in the given pricerange (about $400)

https://www.xp-pen.com/product/63.html

I'm not completely new to drawing, but very rusty, and I'll be new to doing anything digital. What considerations go into tablets that wouldn't be obvious?

>>16245

I was in your shoes a few years ago. I recommend getting an inexpensive tablet to dip your toes first if you can. It can turn out that you do not find digital enjoyable, and it's better to be out of less than a $100 than $400. Especially now that some retailers might not take returns due to virus.

For more information, there is already a tablet thread

https://8kun.top/loomis/res/1804.html

Is it normal for the colors on your computer screen to look more saturated/darker if you tilt your head slightly lower or near the side? If so, how do you know which colors are the true ones? My screen is calibrated correctly so I don't think there's any issues with it, and the same thing happens on my older computer too.

seeing as there might be a bit of unrest within 8koon, are there any other holes on the internet for drawfagging?

>>16268

8kun works so terribly for me, I literally can't even (make threads that is-I get an error every time) and I sometimes have to refresh multiple times for the page to actually do so. If it's this temperamental when there's only a few hundred people probably using it than what would it be like if it had gamergate-tier activity levels?

>>16268

There is https://julay.world/loomis/

The site works like a charm compared to this place, but no one posts there.

>>16271

judging by the current way things are going it wouldn't suprise me if there needed to be a diaspora yet again from this site to another, if what i've heard about management is true

>>16268

>>16270

>>16271

>>16272

Mark/v are going to prolikewhoah, and same seems to be the case with many other boards that do not have bunkers already.

Either way, it is best to start backing up shit again. Does anyone have any links to the official loomis mega folder or other archives?

https://mega.nz/folder/UKBQAK4Q#a4ntxCAQf64NYGJbZc3YLQ

This is what I have. Is there anything missing?

>>16274

I caught up, and looks like things got a bit more complicated. Mark got kicked to the curb and it seems like most will stick around here. Either way, archiving shit won't hurt.

>>16276

This site sucks, honestly, and it's hardly functional. No lose going elsewhere. I don't want to be anywhere near Mark or /v/edditors though personally.

What did Mark (/v/ BO?) do? Pill me fam

>>16271

>BO-sanctioned request thread

Not a fan, otherwise I appreciate what the fella's done in providing an alternative, even if I'm not really interested in bailing JUST yet despite this site's many faults.

>>16278

Read this. Jim is 'Laqueesha', and Mark is 'Jhonstevens'. These were leaked by the cakekike himself.

tl;dr: Basically 8kunt is still around as a boomer's poorly thought out monetary scheme, Jim doesn't give a shit about any board outside of /newsplus/, and Mark is an idiot who became insubordinate and couldn't do his job, so he got the axe. I don't really care about the drama itself, but I guess it highlights how dead this site is. There isn't a particularly good reason to use it over another site at this point. This is the only board here that I still look at, which doesn't happen very often.

>>16281

Ugh, Jim really is kind of an obnoxious boomer fuck isn't he. Does he really think 8chan's greatest strength is serving as a manually curated news aggregator? Holy guacamole!

>>16282

Maybe he's right to be a little upset if he was paying Mark to do something specific. I don't know, hell hath no fury like a boomer scorned in either case.

>>16282

>>16281

>manually curated news aggregator

If that's what he wants, Jim would be far better off setting up a reddit or digg clone. Reddit is supposedly purging people and communities before upcoming election, so if Jim acts fast he might capture a portion of that userbase.

Julay is dead. Are there any other bunkers around?

>>16417

Oh wow, it's actually gone. Holy crap!

>>16417

I have a /loomis/ bunker on 8chan.moe for the time being. I haven't really messed with it. I need to learn how to change the CSS in Lynxchan among other things. I wouldn't be against reversing things insofar as making this board the backup and that the main board if I could just get it to have the feel of the current board. I don't know if anyone else is experiencing it but this site's performance sucks.

>I probably just need to "view source" and stop being such a baby.

>>16417

>>16418

Their registrar has taken down their domian due to the CP spam they were getting on their /v/ board. The backup URL for julayworld is: spqrchan.xyz

The guy who ran the julayworld loomis board now has it on anon.cafe.

>>16418

The webring is getting pruned one website after the other.

Panic!

Hey.

What are other ways to accept untraceable payment? I'm doing certain niche that doesn't sit well with average bots but not worthy enough for glowniggers to give a fuck.

There's no way to cash out crypto coins where I live so that's out of question.

>>16650

I was going to say crypto would be your only option for remote work, otherwise cash by mail I guess but that's super risky

>>16653

Everything starts out as a dirty mess, you just have to zoom in enough to clean it up-and use the right brush of course. One reason I don't get anything done is because I try and draw things too cleanly from the get go rather than visually feeling it out, I think.

>Also is there a good/convinient way to adopt pencil-like shading to digital art?

I use hatching a bit on my anatomy studies but I don't really know any advanced techniques for texture or anything like that.

>>16653

Longer strokes is mostly just git gud, but there's also brush stability settings that automatically make your strokes smoother. There's no shame in using them, digital isn't quite as intuitive as traditional media in terms of brush control. Some compensation is perfectly warranted.

You also really need to find tools you're comfortable with. If you miss how a pencil handles, Corel has some pretty good pencil brushes. You could get the trial just to see if any of those work for you then use those as a baseline to reverse engineer them in your software of choice if corel itself doesn't appeal to you, I did that in Krita and those brushes are definitely my favorites for sketching now. It turned out to be a good way for learning the finer points of the brush engine too.

You'll probably have to include some extra steps to achieve a certain effect like pencil shading. For example you can't do soft shading very well without a blending brush, which you might have to use within a mask with the lasso tool or something since you typically need to use the brush at a much larger size than the area you want to affect to achieve a smooth gradation. If you were drawing with a pencil you'd just kind of handle it more gently, but in digital achieving the effect you want is often a much more mechanical and deliberate process. So basically no, I don't think there's really a convenient way, you need to adopt a different mindset about how to use the tools and really understand what you have at your disposal. Although, textured brushes tend to hide the seams between the strokes better which definitely helps if you really just want to emulate traditional pencil drawing.

As a side note I'd say the biggest problem with that drawing aesthetically is just line weight, I think you should read up on that. It's basically instant improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0zl5NnEAyU

>>16664

>I did that in Krita and those brushes are definitely my favorites for sketching now.

Sharing is caring.

Most important things to a good drawing:

1. Having fun

2. Line control (use your arm, elbow and wrist)

3. line weight

>>16688

Sure, I wouldn't mind some feedback on them anyway.

They're not terribly fancy, it's mostly the alpha that took some figuring out. Hopefully it references the right texture after importing, but it's just one of the default ones. Normally I use them in an image of about 4000px. With a bit of care you can almost do soft shading, and they're pretty good for hard edges, but the gradient makes them too rough to work well for detailing.

https://mega.nz/file/DGZx1QDb#av7C__C-0coznwf0uetW01sbHDUhRvCtTGVmFeOq-4w

>>16712

Wacom has some special tool that calibrates it but it's really expensive and an obvious cash grab (they could use it to calibrate their own shit rather than selling stuff poorly calibrated out of the box, right?). I think you can find settings online if you look hard enough. IIRC a youtube review of that aforementioned Wacom device had recommended calibration settings right in the video's description but I don't know how I'd find that today (this was at least 2 years ago)

>>16709

Come to think of it I had set the opacity of the soft brush to 85 as an experiment, but it looks like shit. If anyone does try those you'll probably prefer it at 100.

>>16791

Krita is good and free. I think Clip Studio Paint EX is the best commercially available software and is more stable than Krita though.

>>16887

>Whatever the fuck Games Workshop's paint brand is

Citadel, and yes it's overpriced as fuck. The only reason to buy that shit is if you're extremely into supporting your LGS/the hobby in general.

We only have(had) one traditional medium fella on this board and I'm afraid he only posts very intermittently since the 8kun transition unfortunately. Your best bet is, unfortunately youtube or a one-month subscription to New Masters Academy at nma.art.

>My tight shoulders fuck up my movement at times when drawing, it's annoying and contributing to my process anxiety. What stretches should I do to get them back into whack?

I did the Peter Han exercises easily found on youtube to vastly improve my drawing dexterity but I'm not sure it's quite as necessary for painting where you're not working with lines.

>Why the fuck am I looking at art (not just mine) and seeing all the flaws as something bad? I just want to see the beauty of flaws in art the way Bob Ross does… Fucking dammit.

When we get to the "midwit" level of artist foundational knowledge it's hard not to be a cynical cock not only about our own work but that of all others. Nonetheless it's important to direct this knowledge in a positive way though rather than just being a shitposter or it will hold you back.

>>16887

>Affordable paint

lmao.

I've got a set of acrylics called Premiere Acrylic Color I picked up from somewhere, I think it was pretty cheap. I've never bought my own oil paints, only borrowed leftovers in my art classes.

Places like Micheal's or ACMoore are total scams, they price everything at double what you could get it on amazon. Then they beg you to sign up for daily coupon spam, 50% off one item*, EXPIRING NOW!

*Unless it already had some other bullshit sale applied to it.

>oil or acrylic

Acrylic dries in about 15 minutes, you need to keep spraying the paint with a mister bottle or something to keep it from drying before you get it on the canvas.

Oil paint takes anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months to dry. Also, it smells bad.

Do you want to build up multiple transparent layers in a hurry with acrylic, or do you want to blend and blend and blend with oil? Bob only uses oil.

>Primers

Usually this just means having a coat of paint or gesso on the canvas to make the paint go on smoother or stick on a non canvas surface.

Bob's whole technique is using primer with paint thinner in it (that Magic Hwhite stuff) and extremely thick paint. The thickness of the paint makes for stronger impasto textures in the palette knife mountains and paint brush jabbing foliage, while the thinner helps get the thick paint off the brush and allows the blending of the sky, clouds, and water.

If you don't care about hanging your shit on a wall then getting canvas pad paper is much cheaper than regular canvases.

>>16888 (checked)

>>16889

>lmao.

Yeah, I know. But if I'm not paying out of the ass before discounts(TM), then to me, that counts as"affordable".

>Peter Han exercises

I'll keep that in mind. I want to draw too, so I'll check that out.

>The oil vs acrylic differences.

Noted, thanks for the head's up on the semantics of each paint type..

>Canvas pad paper.

That sounds exactly what I should aim for.

Thank you both, for everything

>>16899

I honestly don't know. I think it's just one of those inherent risks you take. Like, nothing will happen to you unless you get reported-which given the nature of the eternal cumbrain could very easily happen. You could try some alternative like Zelle or Venmo as well. Not sure what their rules are but they've become more popular lately.