ce7255 No.686099 [View All]
Why would anyone carry their handgun in condition 3 as opposed to condition 1? And why does everyone call it israeli carry when the technique predates the jewish state being established?
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3841b8 No.686440
I carry double action revolvers and single action auto loaders, and my little secret some are surprised with is that I will carry hammer down in certain setups. Most will carry cocked and locked, and I understand that, especially with the 1911 with its retard safety. Then again, my shoulder 1911 draw is two handed and draws back the hammer with the pull, it is complicated but I can pull it off smoothly. Still, hammer cocked and safety on with a full chamber is a good way to carry, a good way to carry a Hi Power in a holster as well as the 1911. SA/DA cover themselves, the revolver as well. The DA safety/no safety is a topic that will never die, considering there have been reports that Glocks and similar no safety guns have had increased accidents when given to the less than proficient.
In any case, even a guy who will occasionally carry a hammer down single action, even I am against empty chamber. Racking a slide isn't just a use of time in an emergency situation, the danger lies in the fact that many malfunctions stem from riding bolts/slides forward and not getting shit into battery. Nothing like racking a gun during a crisis under stress to induce a poor charging and get an out of battery when you need the gun to fire. Carrying full chamber means you get to make sure it was a good charging and the thing is ready to go. I'll catch hell for carrying hammer down, but I'm not going to carry empty.
In the same line, it is a risk of auto loader rifles for self defense with an empty chamber. Johnny Homeowner grabs his AK or AR or whatever at 3 AM when the druggies break into his house, will he be a fuckup and ride the charging handle forward in his sleepy and stressed out state? Leaving your primary long arm with a round in the chamber safety on is the best choice? The real answer is always 'get gud faggot" and not make mistakes, but we have to idiot proof everything as much as possible. Leaving the bolt open if you don't want a fully loaded gun all the time, and then training to push the release on guns with hold back, to prevent riding bolt forward? Things to consider.
>>686320
To be honest, Frenchie makes some points. Especially on worked trigger Glocks and the like. You reach a point with some of those guns where they are inherently unsafe to carry because there is so little to keep them from going off. GI Glocks are one thing, trigger job Glocks are another. The triggers and their length of pull and weight are the safety, fuck with them and one day you are asking for trouble.
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55a11f No.686452
>>686320
Everything this nogun cuck said about not carrying with one in the pipe will completely fuck you in a court of law if you use your firearm in defense. You carry concealed (or open in certain states/fields of employment) to defend your life, or the life of someone else. Any prosecution worth their salt will crucify you for carrying like that, because it always gets construed as you not treating carrying a firearm as a serious responsibility, and instead treating it like a game.
Yes, I understand you may not feel that way, but in court they will try to portray your actions that way, to destroy your image to a jury. DO NOT GIVE THEM THE CHANCE TO DO THAT. They don't allow LEO's to carry with an empty chamber for a reason.
And if you want to argue that "like, oh my gawd, it's like, sooo easy to rack your slide!", then you are a range commando who has never had to draw on someone under stress, caught flatfooted, or attempting to use your off hand to create space to actually draw your fucking pistol. It's better to dump the first one in the dirt in front of you, because you accidentally squeezed the trigger drawing, than to be fucking dead because you couldn't rack your slide while pushing away the junkie as he was taking swings at you with a pipe.
>t. instructor who carries every fucking day
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58e586 No.686472
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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58e586 No.686477
>>686452
>>686472
>people who tout themselves as "experts" or "instructors" like to make blanket statements such as "YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!"
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9e581c No.686481
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bcb387 No.686484
>>686477
I love how the people who aren't legally allowed to carry pistols are the ones who most love telling us how to carry ours.
And yeah, post your carry pistol:^]
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58e586 No.686485
>>686484
I'm pretty sure Paul Harrell is legally allowed to carry.
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58e586 No.686487
>>686484
Besides, point out where I was trying to tell you how to carry your gun. I have a problem with people who use appeals to authority to give "advice" to people they don't know. Carrying with full chamber might work for you, but it won't work for everybody, because the law sometimes doesn't allow it. And sometimes racking a slide is actually easier than taking the safety off.
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7f0868 No.686492
>>686485
>>686487
>sometimes racking a slide is actually easier than taking the safety off
Then get a better gun.
>law sometimes doesn't allow it
Off the top of my head I can't think of any jurisdictions anywhere near me that have this sort of rule. Mind educating me?
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58e586 No.686496
>>686492
>Then get a better gun.
Someone might not be able to, for various reasons. And now what?
>Mind educating me?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Utah
>Utah allows for open carry of unloaded firearms without a concealed firearm permit. "Unloaded" as it applies here, means that there is no round in the firing position (or chamber), and the firearm is at least two "mechanical actions" from firing.
Also Polish law explicitly forces you to carry with an empty chamber.
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7f0868 No.686497
>>686496
>Also Polish law explicitly forces you to carry with an empty chamber.
What do you carry to work around that? Large slide, one of those self-charging Makarov holsters, what?
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bcb387 No.686499
>>686496
>polish law
You guys are allowed to carry? Honest question.
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58e586 No.686503
>>686497
Gward revolver, local construction. Not the best, but it's either this or nothing. Easy enough to cock with one hand.
>>686499
Needs a licence, which is a pain in the ass to get, and also really expensive (for our standards). There's also stuff like not being allowed to be armed at all inside public transport. It has to be concealed, anyone who sees you carrying can call the cops and accuse you of threatening him. Also any instance of using the gun meant for personal protection might mean years of dealing with courts and jews trying to fuck you in every possible way just for defending yourself. Honestly, I'd say that with the level of dangers you might face in this country (since your run-of-the-mill criminals are unlikely to be armed with firearms contrary to the US), hand-to-hand self defence practice might be a better, less risky option - and even with that I've heard of people getting sued for using excessive force in self-defence situation. It's pure communism worse in commiefornia, but what can you do.
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acb2aa No.686515
>>686477
>Doesn't respond to any of the arguments
>takes issues with the tone
>polish nogunz
lol sounds about right.
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431055 No.686519
>>686487
>Carrying with full chamber might work for you, but it won't work for everybody, because the law sometimes doesn't allow it
You're not adding anything worthwhile to the conversation with this is the problem. If somebody says "Your carry gun should always have at least 8 rounds to account for stress-induced poor accuracy and the possibility of multiple assailants", it's perfectly worthwhile to counter that statement by bringing up low-capacity subcompacts or revolvers and their merits. But to repeat that the statement is wrong because somewhere theoretically has a 5-round limit adds nothing, because that factor has nothing to do with the practicality of carrying, it's just an arbitrary legality factor that cannot be influenced.
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7478cb No.686544
>>686306
> Besides sometimes the law requires you to carry on an empty chamber.
who's going to check? the gun safety commissar?
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bcb387 No.686548
>>686544
Yes.
We're talking about yurop, remember. Every gun owner(that the (((state))) is aware of) is on a registry and is subject to search at any time, for any reason.
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56c560 No.686587
>>686515
>uses ad personam
>claims I take issue with the tone when I was pointing out that wide statements and appeals to authority without knowing the situation might be just fucking wrong
Why won't you just watch the video I posted, instead of writing arrogant bullshit like "you'll totally going to get raped if you carry with an empty chamber"?
>>686519
>But to repeat that the statement is wrong
I never said that you should carry on an empty chamber ALWAYS. I said that SOMETIMES you should, and there are countries, jurisdictions and situations where you HAVE TO. If you train and practice the draw of a firearm carried in condition three, you WILL be able to defend yourself. That's all. All I want is you to take into account that your statement is true in an optimal situation, but it's not always available.
>>686544
>who's going to check?
Someone sees you with a gun in public, calls the cops, the cops come, check your licence and want to see your gun, they discover you carry with a round in the chamber which breaks the law, and you're fucked. Thank you.
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6e282c No.686613
>>686503
Why a revolver? I'd think it's much easier to grab a slide and rack it than go for a hammer that's much much smaller by comparison.
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4a03a5 No.686644
>>686099
>half a second worth of timing advantage on a gun draw vs. basic firearm safety of not having a live round chambered with the gun cocked
What kind of retard argument is this?
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acb2aa No.686646
>>686587
>I can't be assed to type out a response, but you just watch a video of someone else
How much of a lazy fucking hypocrite can you be? Oh, you're a nogunz polish person. Makes sense.
And by the way, that video quite literally proved your own argument wrong. Harrel first makes a tone policing statement, which was ALREADY called out, and then goes on to talk about how carrying without a round in the chamber means you get fucking raped by the reasons already stated. You know what? I hope you DO carry in a way that will get you killed. Just do me a favor, one anon to another… Make sure when you struggle to rack your slide while mohammed is cutting your throat, you die on camera, because I LOVE to show my guys fresh videos of retards being killed due to incompetence, when they come for their yearly carry requalification.
Who am I kidding though, you don't even have a gun.
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4a03a5 No.686649
>>686644
That's not to mention, this kind of timing advantage doesn't mean shit.
>end of the vid
If you quickdraw a gun in condition 0 like this you're more likely to shoot yourself than you'd be likely to get shot because you spent extra fraction of a second racking the slide.
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bcb387 No.686654
>>686644
>frog thinks miliseconds don't count
What kind of retard argument is thi-oh right, you're French.
Look, verbal jabbing aside, I know you have a completely different mindset born mostly of never being allowed to use guns to defend yourself, and I want you to stay alive if possible. Watch this video.
You know very well those niggers had rounds in the chamber. Try to imagine grandpa taking an extra second to cock his pistol. Try to imagine him possibly making a slipup(remember, he's under major stress here). It's very possible. The more steps you add to a routine, the more your chances of fucking up said routine explode. It doesn't seem like much time to you, maybe… but I'll tell you what. Do a little exercise for me, if you can.
Get a friend and a pistol, if you can. A GOOD friend, someone you unironically trust with your life, and preferably someone who trusts you with theirs. Have said friend stand on the other side of an average sized room. For the love of god, make sure your pistol is empty.
Now, tell your friend to charge you, full speed, and try to 'stab' you as many times as possible before you can cock your weapon and bring it to bear.
Then come back here and tell me what happened. This exercise might unironically save your life someday.
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bcb387 No.686656
>>686654
And remember, your pistol starts off in a holster just like grandpa's did.
And as a bonus exercise, have your friend mime drawing a gun and shooting you while you try to cock yours, under the assumption that said friend has a round in the chamber.
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4a03a5 No.686657
>>686654
My weapon is a S&W model 28 domestic clone but thanks for your concern.
I don't need to imagine what would happen because I saw countless gun violence videos. It would be literally nothing because what you suggest there is not how real life gun fights go down. It's either they shoot first and you never have a chance to draw, or they have no intention to shoot and then it doesn't matter how long did it took you to draw.
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bcb387 No.686659
>>686657
>I saw countless gun violence videos.
>I SAW VIDEOS
>VIDEOS MAN
Whatever you say. Maybe one day you'll learn - I just hope you survive the lesson.
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4a03a5 No.686662
>>686657
>someone else's experiences are invalid
>if it didn't happened to you personally then it doesn't count
Amerimutts.
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bcb387 No.686663
>>686662
>durr ur just a dumb amerimutt
>can't even select the right post
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4a03a5 No.686665
>>686663
>anime poster
>is retarded
>is grasping at straws
Every time.
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bcb387 No.686666
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56c560 No.686670
>>686646
>And by the way, that video quite literally proved your own argument wrong.
I don't know if I can spell it out any simpler, but I'll try.
>Carrying with a round in the chamber is an optimal way of carrying a modern double-action handgun with an intention of self-defense.
>Some countries and jurisdictions require you to carry with an empty chamber. Sometimes it's easier to rack the slide than disengage the safety if you, for some reason, don't own a modern gun.
>Because of the above, making wide statements like "you're stupid if you carry with an empty chamber t. instructor" is a proof of incompetence or lack of knowledge
>If you train properly, there's not much difference in time between these two methods.
>Therefore, it's better to carry with an empty chamber than not to carry at all.
I know you're a burger, but I just cannot describe it any better than this.
Also I'm not sure if we've watched the same video, but nevermind that.
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c72395 No.686678
>>686657
>the only way a criminal can kill you is with a gun
>it is literally impossible for them to attack you in close quarters
>you will always have both hands free
Really nigger?
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250e93 No.686684
>>686678
If they attack you like this you're goner, condition 0 or not.
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cf87c5 No.686687
>>686684
Jokes on them im already dead inside.
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6e282c No.686690
>>686644
>>686657
Post gun, post holster
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1df256 No.686723
>>686670
If the law stipulates that you, by law, need to carry with an empty chamber then do that. If there's no restrictions and you don't have some a modern pistol with the inherent safeties then it is highly advisable that you carry one in the chamber. But you do you man, your life your responsibility.
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acb2aa No.686767
>>686670
>you can draw AND rack a slide ONE HANDED as fast as drawing and shooting; like someone who actually carries a real gun
>it was real in my mind
Polish nogunz everybody. Here, your award came in.
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acb2aa No.686768
>>686690
that would require him to actually own and carry gun, so that's never gonna happen.
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723c62 No.686807
>>686767
You call me a retard but you still get wrong what I specifically explained to you point by point. I guess you're a lost cause.
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acb2aa No.686818
>>686807
>doesn't explain a single point
>posts video that blows his own argument out of the water
>doesn't own guns
>y-y-you're just a l-l-lost c-cause!
lol rekt
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723c62 No.686822
>>686818
Are you fucking illiterate?
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dd682f No.686826
>>686822
Deliberately so apparently.
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5d3f87 No.686866
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7d08a0 No.686874
>>686807
This is what my concealed carry instructor told me. He is a master level instructor and actually gives explanations for why to do things.
The real reason why it makes sense to carry condition 0 is that if you have enough training to draw your gun, flip the safety or rack the slide, and then accurately get it on target to defend your life and do so without costing you valuable time, then you have MORE THAN ENOUGH training to pick a holster and not fucking shoot yourself when you draw your gun. If the gun isn't a fucking ghettoblaster and it stays in the holster, it is not going to go off, even if you fucking drop it.
Training to carry with the safety on or with an empty chamber is time spent that you could have spent learning to draw faster and become a better shooter. This is a vastly more important skill because despite what you may think, we in the US are 100% responsible for every bullet that leaves our gun, regardless of what happens to it. Even in your fictitious scenario of shooting yourself in the ass when you pull the gun out of "your pants" is preferable to pulling the trigger and hitting an innocent bystander on accident.
>just train more hurr
No shit. Train more, but spend that extra training at becoming a more competent shooter.
In short. Pick a decent holster and you aren't going to shoot yourself. Only niggers put their guns "in their pants."
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708be1 No.686882
In my house during the day: empty chamber.
The chances of me having a ND are extremely low, but due to the security at my property I'm certain they're technically still higher than the chance of me needing to defend myself.
Around children, no matter where/when: empty chamber.
Again, my chances of having a ND are low due to years of professional training. However, it is still possible: nobody ever thinks it'll happen to them, and if it does, I don't want it to happen around kids.
All other situations: one in the pipe.
If you don't like it or if it's not right for you, do it your way.
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8f0597 No.686884
>>686874
Keep in mind you're responding to someone who is a big enough hypocrite that he couldn't handle people "making blanket statements", only to then be comfortable enough in making blanket statements himself in turn, when he himself came under fire.
Good post though.
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9a8a21 No.687089
>>686099
>(((Condition 3)))
Because jews steal everything OP, you know this. And because they want you to be slower on the pew pew & train incorrectly, like a good goy.
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cfec7c No.688157
>not carrying in condition fabric
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2b64fc No.688163
>>688157
>not carrying an unloaded firearm and training to run into the nearest gun store and buy a box of ammunition if there's a sudden threat
>it's just basic firearm safety, my dude
>train around it
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faec3f No.688569
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