/k/ - Weapons

>>685769

Retool them for 30.cal instead, we need our enemies to die, not writhe around in pain.

Build UFO's and obliterate our enemies.

>>685774

If you need .30 cal, just get the G3 in stock and modernize them.

There is so much old steel shit lying in Germany that can be quickly be put to use.

>>685774

Fuck off boomer, battle rifles are outdated.

>>685776

Well if your going to use old shit as a stop gap then do that.

>>685780

>britcuck

>thinks he knows anything about "whats in" in terms of warfare

>needy daddy America to save his wailing little ass from a couple of blondies

You act like a 308. rifle with a 30 round mag and select fire is impractical.

>>685781

Those goddamn helmets are fucking terrible.

Modern german uniform is fine.

>>685799

Economy is the easiest shit to fix.

Force all women to be at home, give social benefits to married couples with children.

Replace lost women with automaton.

Glare in full force natalist propaganda.

Rebuild domestic industry, especially heavy such as car, airplanes and weaponry.

Sell weapons, get money, put into national banks.

???

PROFIT!

>>685803

LOL, destroying the military goes around restoring the economy.

The military and economy goes hand in hand, because the military is how you enforce the value of your money and how you have a heavy industry base.

>>685805

The problem is the money is just an IOU note. Its fucking worthless.

>>685810

Again, the point of fiat money is money enforced by violence.

>>685811

>value enforced by violence*

>>685769

I think it would be slightly cheaper to convert existing G36 stock to 5.45mm, but it's pretty much the same result either way. I'd also take all of the old G3s and MG3s out of mothballs, give the newest guns to the regular army (G3s might be obsolete as assault rifles but they still make great DMRs etc) and the rest are used to arm reserves and militias.

To salvage the air force, just arrange to purchase or locally produce some Su-25s and Su-57s (Sukhoi already offers NATO-compatible Su-25s, they'd probably do the same for the Su-57 if a buyer asked for it). Sell off all F-35s and Typhoons in service and cancel all future orders, this will help a bit with the dire financial situation.

Armor is probably the biggest problem, as far as I know Germany scrapped or sold off all their surplus and they can't afford a thousand new MBTs. As a stopgap they could build some assault guns along the lines of a Kanonenjagdpanzer, up-armored to be more or less RPG-proof and upgunned to around 105mm. You can also fit it with a remotely-operated ATGM launcher, which would turn it into a pretty efficient tank destroyer.

Germany is also in urgent need of lightweight artillery (they currently have no towed guns whatsoever), so you could try something really radical here and develop a 105mm howitzer that shares ammo with your new tank gun (or perhaps even use the same gun for both roles). Aside from the obvious advantage of unified logistics, this also guarantees that the assault gun is one of the only western AFVs to actually carry an effective HE shell.

I guess the German navy also needs fixing, but I have no idea what sort of state they're in right now.

>>685816

Why buy Su-57 when it's not even proven to work yet?

Germany can develop their own aircraft without help from the ruskies.

>>685821

Not on my watch.

Also, I check Wikipedia and Cold War era Germany had about 2400 Leopard 1, even if they can re-activate 50% of that, combine with the 200-300 Leopard 2 currently you would have a decent tank fleet already, never mind the tanks left by East Germany also in Storage (which is around 2700 of various models).

Germany really has a shitton of old shit that can be reused if needed.

The ones can be re-used, we modernize.

The ones too broken, we take out the guns and make them into tank destroyer or light artillery.

>>685827

It still looks bad and why fix something not broken in the first place?

>>685818

I was assuming we're under some kind of time and monetary pressure. Developing a domestic 5th gen fighter takes upwards of a decade and is ten times more expensive than just buying the latest slavshit.

>>685829

1. Su-57 has not been proven in combat.

2. Germany currently has 140 typhoon in use.

If there is a problem with the typhoon, they should fix it instead of scrapping them altogether than buying new one.

More focus should be put on SAM/missiles in general anyway, which would be a more economical option.

>>685833

> instead of scrapping them altogether and buying new ones*

>>685769

>What else do you suggest?

you kill yourself

>>685855

Bump for reason why.

I like how this is an actual military thread and nobody fucking responds constructively except the french and the american.

What's the matter? Not enough MEMES?

>>685769

>Have G3 as you're main service raifu.

>No gun control for ethnic germans, noguns for ethnic foreigners and traitors.

>Have non-german citizens be legally recognized as citizens of lower stature, with harsher criminal punishments and restrictions on breeding with german women. These should be inversely proportional to the whiteness and fitness of the non-german citizen in question, starting with simple nofuns for Belgians all the way to deportation as a result of bicycle theft for Bantu ethnicities and the gas chamber for being a Jew.

>Fire 99% of public schoolteachers, instill national autism with the few sane ones remaining and have every other kid be homeschooled or sent to survive innawoods in Siberia for a year.

>Remove Democracy, Welfare, Women's Rights, Subhuman Rights and allow for civil servants to be fired.

>Leave the EU by simply no longer paying them any shekels and ignore all EU regulations as if they never existed, barr any german EU politicians stationed at the EU parliament or some other EU institution outside of German territory from returning for extra lulz.

>Enter a military alliance with Russia, acquire old burger nuke stocks and threaten nuclear war if anyone dares to invade. Convince Poland and Greece to enter this Alliance if need be.

>Hire Christian Orthodox Russian volunteers from the Caucasus, Greeks, Armenians and other Kebab removing ethnicities to help you in clearing out infected German cities. Use such operations to dispose of any bloated and overpriced NATO dogshit you don't need or can't hand over to militias.

>Instill nationalist feels among your countrymen by broadcasting live feeds of Kebabs, kikes and Antifa getting roasted alive.

>Dismantle Frankfurt's skyline and other such unsightly blemishes of modernist architecture across the land, instigate national aesthetics programs centered around neogothic sandstone facades and comfy fachwerk.

>Nationalize your currency and have it printed at zero interest on demand.

>Forbid the exchange of your currency into another currency, only allow it to be exchanged for goods. All International transactions are to be conducted through barter.

>Bring Nippon into your alliance, make the Japanese language part of the standard school curriculum.

>Enact voluntary eugenics programs available to all german citizens.

>Ban abortions for all ethnic germans, allow it only for foreigners or unborn 56% abominations.

>Nationalize both the Catholic and Protestant Churches, ban Islam.

>Terminate all (((business)))-oriented privately owned television and radio programs, replace them with a single state owned TV channel broadcasting for 3 hours every day and one basic radio channel per Reichsprovinz for traffic warnings.

>Extend national labor rights to workers of german subsidies in foreign lands.

>Tear down inland Wind Farms and build Gen IV Nuclear Reactors instead.

>Remove mobile telephone infrastructure, teach children to operate GNU/radio networks instead.

>Invest in SSTO and build a Space colony.

>Modernize the Luftwaffel with S-400s until national industries are capable of serving german military needs on their own.

>Ban patents and copyright, for all information of no military relevance shalt be free to share with no legal repercussions.

>Annex Austria.

>Put Reinhard Günzel in position of defence minister

Former KSK commander who got kicked out because he supported someone publicy saying soviet commissars were 80% jews.

>Increase the military spending to 2% of GDP

It can easily be done especially if you don't have to pay gibs to the new Europeans.

>Conduct a new Operation Sommerregen with KSK, EGB and BND

This is to study and analyze the combat in current war zones because German doctrine might need some adjustments to fighting irregular forces. Unfortunately no soviet equipment will be stolen and transported to Germany this time.

>Keep G36 and G3

The only people shitting on the G36 are journalists who never used a weapon before. Every soldier tells you it is a light and accurate gun that never jams. G3 still has some limited use aswell.

>Every single soldier has his personal gun

Let them maintain it and each one has to be given a name. Currently even in our actual combat units there are fewer guns than soldiers.

>Teach soldiers more about hand to hand combat

Both striking and grappling techniques will be taught.

Not only does it greatly improve your endurance you also learn how to fight with no weapons at all. Some courses should be mandatory and others voluntarily. Soldiers should have the option to just go for some rounds of BJJ in their freetime.

>Hand out AGDUS systems in every single Kaserne

Soldiers have too much freetime where they just sit around doing nothing so they might aswell do some mock firefights in a paintball arena.

>Allow traditional marching songs

Brings back tradition and greatly improves morale.

>More military exercises on a greater scale

If the soldiers aren't in combat at least let them train properly for it more than once a year.

>Combat exercises in civilian environments

Occasionally use civilian environemnts like a factory complex or a school for training. This will make the youth more interested in the military. You interrupt their class with some fancy room clearing and at the end of the exercise hand out a pizza to everyone.

>Embed SPGAAs into armored and mechanized infantry units

Dealing with enemy air support, reliably destroying SVBIEDs, fire support against enemy fortifications, ability to shoot down drones, can harass armored vehicles to an extend, obliterates light vehicles and they are absolutely great for urban combat. There is no reason not to use them.

>Focus on expanding Fallschirmjäger and Panzergrenadiere

Paratroopers can be rapidly deployed and do a variety of tasks. Mechanized infantry is a great option for current warfare due to speed, firepower and the option to combine them with armored units. No matter the type of enemy mechanized infantry is always a good choice.

>>685884

>Forbid the exchange of your currency into another currency, only allow it to be exchanged for goods. All International transactions are to be conducted through barter.

Isn't that what the DDR did and found out that doesn't work and lead to shortages?

>>685897

DDR also didn’t have access to many national markets.

>>685880

>>685884

>>685891

>tfw you will never serve in such an army

I was planning on joining the Bundeswehr (Panzergrenadiere or Fallschirmjäger) after Uni but what my friend tells me of the Canadian army it seems like a kindergarten for retards and the mentally unstable where they do hard drugs all the time and fuck around.

>>685891

>Embed SPGAAs into armored and mechanized infantry units

>Dealing with enemy air support, reliably destroying SVBIEDs, fire support against enemy fortifications, ability to shoot down drones, can harass armored vehicles to an extend, obliterates light vehicles and they are absolutely great for urban combat. There is no reason not to use them.

This is a great idea, wonder why it hasn't done before.

>>685925

I don't think you understand how fucked the DDR was when it came to trade, first off their currency was worthless and accepted nowhere leading them to use hard western currency they nabbed from tourists i.e Intershop, forced currency exchanges. Also nobody wanted any of the literal crap they were producing so that was out of the picture unless they agreed hilariously lopsided deals to get said resources, they fucked themselves in every regard. Either nobody wanted what they had or realized they had them by the balls and took them to the cleaners as the Viets did.

>>685946

The Bundeswehr as a whole has been fucked since the fall of the wall.

>>685946

It seems like a waste of my time to join but the Canadian army seems much worse, plus there is no future for Canada, every year we grow closer to 56% and the Nationalist Party is obscure and unknown to everyone but some nationalists (>implying Canada is a nation), while Bernier’s party is pretty good and much more mainstream he probably doesn’t have any chance either. I just want to fight but every fight NATO is in is for Israel or some shitty peacekeeping job. Can you please re-establish the Freikorps and start shooting commies in the streets, and defending all rightful clay of Germany, again?

>>685958

>The Bundeswehr as a whole has been fucked since the fall of the wall.

>have a national army for defence of the nation

>ban nationalists and “right wing extremists” from joining, de jure removing the pool of people most likely to volunteer and be willing to fight and die for your nation

>first off their currency was worthless and accepted nowhere leading them to use hard western currency

I thought they weren’t even allowed trade with the west because of muh aluminum sheet. Though honestly the Cold War isn’t my most familiar era.

>>685975

>every year we grow closer to 56%

Canada is 66% as of December 31 2018, the government suppressed statistics and kept claiming we were 80%+ for the last 20 years. You have to go to independent bodies like pew, and look at unrelated stats like religion or national origin to combine an answer.

>>685975

The whole eastern bloc had an economy entirely directed at taking western currency out of the hands of its people by getting them to buy imported western goods so they could use said currency to buy basic stuff. You wanna know the sad part about that, people who were visiting those red shitholes found the goods in those shops to be up to 50% cheaper than they were in the west.

>>685996

imagine how much kikes are jewing you right now

So is there any feasibility to my plan of upgrading and modernizing the fleet of old T-72 and Leopard 1?

>>685769

>dismantle and sell all NATO caliber small arms, use AK-74s from east bloc

>get rid of leopard 2s and all other traces of western mechanized equipment

>buy new Russian T-72s and T-90s, see about retrofitting old east bloc armor

>all the helicopters in current inventory are rusted through anyway, acquire KA-50 and MI-17s

>purchase whatever remains of the old Russian surface fleet and any mothballed subs

>scrap whatever remains of the luftwaffe, buy sukohois and S-60000000

>establish oil and natural gas lines to Russia

>fire all military staff, replace them with old guard DDR and whatever retired ex-soviets are willing to work

>fire all civilian staff, import hard working Russian peoples

>change national currency to ruble

>change national language to Russian

>change national flag to DDR or better yet, Russian flag

am I doing this right?

>>686019

In all seriousness, I don't think the monkey model T-72s and Leopard 1s are worth looking into. The modern German, much like the modern Russian is finding himself to be too tall to actually fit comfortably inside the T-72s low ground profile thanks to capitalismburgers. Though I suppose they could look into whatever upgrade package the Polish did to theirs. The Leopard 1 is a bit of a joke to be honest. Its armor is so paper thin that putting ERA onto it would be like trying to re-enforce a wooden manifest destiny era rail road trestle to take a modern diesel locomotive. Your best bet, if you are still seriously going to consider using it, is to put all of your money into not getting hit. Because nothing is going to stop it from being penetrated by even a T-34/76 besides overloading the chassis with bolt on armor. This would mean going back to the "stealth panzer" prototype and go all out on active protection systems. I don't know how the turret ring and space inside looks, but if they could squeeze a 120mm into the M60, maybe it would work in a leopard 1? I still doubt its usefulness. If something is going to be that lightly armored it should have wheels. The Leopard 2 is also in rather dire straights. Its chassis is overloaded with more and more armor and longer and longer guns because they refuse to use modern materials in their projectiles and armor. Not to mention its getting slower and slower. They should make a new MBT in all honesty, but we all know that's not going to happen.

>>686084

Leopard 1 armor worked just as well as all other cold war tank armor against contemporary HEAT rounds. Overweight slow british/american tanks had useless armor that was penetrated easily from very far away. Only with chobam armor did tanks see an improvement in protection against anti-tank weapons compared to ww2.

>>686084

>make new MBT focusing on more armor

Yeah, how about less armor, more mobility and better support from infantries. The jewish-american way of fixing shit is always throwing away what works and spend billions on new models.

Armor is less important when you have proper support and good mobility.

>change national flag to DDR or better yet, Russian flag

Kill yourself.

The point is to reuse as much shit as possible instead of PROCURING new shit.

>>686084

>They should make a new MBT in all honesty, but we all know that's not going to happen.

They might actually found a way: just put the turret of the Leclerc on a Leopard 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Ground_Combat_System

>>685956

>This is a great idea, wonder why it hasn't done before.

Because it is too tactical and specific. Someone like von der Leyen won't understand why it is important and you just have to get lucky the right advisor is shilling this project.

Soviets/Russians used them in a similar way during the wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya with success.

>>686019

>So is there any feasibility to my plan of upgrading and modernizing the fleet of old T-72 and Leopard 1?

These models are outdated and modernizing them now would mean you would have to modernize them in a few years again. Tank warfare currently is about surviving ATGMs. Unfortunately we can not hand out cybernetic enhancements to the armies we export our tanks to so that they don't get obliterated by ATGMs. This means your best bet is strapping the right armor to your tank.

I would take the Leopard 1s and put them in a light and mobile anti tank unit. Combine them with various ATGM vehicles and you have a hit and run division that can reliabely take out armored formations. Of course we can not miss out on a few Gepards so we will include those too.

The T-72s will be used for exercises or experiments.

>>686123

Honestly, SPAAG equipped with a few ATGM would be a good support vehicle even against tanks.

And what's the idea of putting ATGM on Leopard 1 and T-72? Would up their arsenal quite seriously.

And this hasn't been said before, but can you something like a small CWIS that intercepts and kills ATGM? ATGM seems to go slow most of the times.

>>686124

>can you something like a small CWIS that intercepts and kills ATGM? ATGM seems to go slow most of the times.

Wouldn't those be subject to plenty of clutter, especially in Aleppo-tier Urban environments?

>>686137

Yeah, but it still would be better than being hit by an ATGM.

>>686124

>And this hasn't been said before, but can you something like a small CWIS that intercepts and kills ATGM? ATGM seems to go slow most of the times.

https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2017/01/hardkill-aps-overview.html

>>685958

As far as puppet economies go, how did Vichy France and Manchukuo compare to the DDR?

>>686161

Not too well read on Vichy other than they accounted for something like 35% of all the foreign supplied support the Reich had. Manchukuo after Japanese annexation, investment and direction was second to Japan itself in terms of sheer industry, but that is what happens when Japanese start running things from the incompetent Han and Manchus who had the reigns before '32.

I don't exactly think its fair to compare the DDR to those two considering the DDR itself was the unwanted leftovers after carving up the eastern half of Europe. Stalin himself tried to give it back, but who knows what of would happened if that decided to happen.

>>685816

The pure delusion in that post.. holy fuck.

There is absolutely no reason to rechamber any small arms. The thing that makes changing calibers for army expensive isn't the guns. It is ammunition stockpiles, tooling for ammunition production and so on. It is essentially everything except the gun itself that makes switching caliber expensive for army.

The air force stuff is even more retarded. There will never be large numbers of new built Su-25's. Production tooling only exists in Georgia and they aren't in good terms with Russia. Essentially all Su-25's that have been exported to various countries since the end of the cold are used examples from stocks of existing users that have been overhauled and modernized. The country where the NATO compatible avionics tfor Su-25 come from is most likely Israel. When Soviet Union went to trashheap of history it belongs into, they had plenty that were essentially new Su-25's that had been barely used in storage.

Germany doesn't have F-35's and are extremely unlikely to buy 'em. Bunch of Luftwaffe generals wanted F-35's, they were removed from their offices and forced to retire. The Airbus FCAS Germans are developing with the French isn't ready for production or service in a long time and Tornadoes need replacement. F-35 is better than Typhoon for that mission set. Yet, Merkel literally fired their air force chief of staff for publicly saying obvious truth.

Su-57 at this point seems to be a white elephant for Russian air force. Why the fuck would you replace Typhoon with it? The issue with Typhoon isn't the plane, it is the ultra-kike'd supply chain that comes with the plane. It is mostly domestic product for Germans, they need cooperation with Bongs, or to replace foreign components with domestic ones to fully control it all,

When it comes to German navy. A lot needs fixing. Awful lot.

Only thing you got right is the fact that they have sold off or scrapped a lot of Cold War era surplus.

>>685829

It takes longer than a decade to develop a fighter. 25 years or so from initial concept studies to final product starting to enter service.

>>686236

Unless Russia decides to vaporize the Tbilisi plant, don't think there is a problem acquiring their modernized frogfoots.

>>685823

Most of their Leopard 1's were either sold off or scrapped. They probably still have a bunch in depots, but those are in storage for potential modernization or overhaul and sale to a friendly 3rd world country. Finding 3rd world buyers that German politicians will issue export licenses for is bit hard.

They might have bunch of Leopard 2's storage as well, but a lot of surplus Leopard 2's have been exported into plenty of countries after the end of Cold War. Very few of those have been new built tanks. Majority of modern versions of Leo2 that exist are modernized older models, A4's or older being rebuilt into A5's, A6's and A7's or whatever they are marketing the newest version as. Basically only new built Leopard 2's in 2000's have been about 400 tanks to Greece and Spain, built under license in those countries.

>>685826

They don't have reasonable amount of T-72's in storage, there might be few that are there for potential donation to a museum. Bunch ex-NVA T-72's were sold to Finland in early 90's and rest were turned into teaspoons. Most of ones sold to Finland were turned into teaspoons about decade ago.

>>686236

>F-35 is better than

No, that is wrong. I’d rather we bough Wright brothers’ planes over the pile of horse shit with wings that is the F-35.

>>686264

Who is we? Canada or Germany? Neither have F-35s. Either way, >>686236 is right. I know the anti-F-35 autism brigade is coming after me soon, but it can be an interim fighter until Germany can, if ever, rebuild it's aircraft industry. The typhoon is okay, for it's mission set, but the F-35 is better.

>>686084

>change national language to Russian

>change national flag to DDR or better yet, Russian flag

This is a joke, right?

>>686241

What is the source of most of their Leopard 1 being sold off or scrapped?

Most news just say they are in storage and waiting for resale.

>>686274

*shell splinter proof gah.

>>686236

An upgraded Tornado with EJ200s would still be better than the F-35 in most AsF roles.

>>686274

>ww3 in cold war europe would have been fought with ww2 weapons so shitty overweight slow anglo tanks with useless fat steel armor would have been perfectly fine! so there!

wew that cholesterol really damaged your brain hm?

>>686300

During the early cold war era where the centurion, M48 and Leopard 1 were modern in, yes its not beyond the realm of possibility of T-34s being used en mass as the east bloc had a lot of them and had already used them in Korea. Having a bit of steel armor also helps in situations where your vehicle is parked in a dug in position or behind a hull high wall where an incoming kinetic penetrator shell will be slowed enough by the barrier to be safely stopped by the armor. And seeing that WW3 was largely accepted to be a defensive war, the use of such cover is a safe bet to make which the Leopard 1 cannot take advantage of because of its armor being so thin that a shell could go through the wall of a nuclear containment vessel and still have enough energy to punch a hole in it.

There are times where light armor is acceptable to have, but on an MBT is just retarded.

>>686303

ok, whatever delusions help you sleep at night.

>>686264

Luftwaffe needs replacement for Tornado. A ground attack plane for them. F-35 is better ground attack plane than Typhoon. Since FCAS is long time away, F-35 would make perfect sense for them. Economic factors and the fact that Typhoon is mostly domestic product is the reason that most likely stopgap replacement for Tornado will be another batch of Typhoons.

>>686287

Common sense. They sold off most of their Leopard 2's. They sold a lot of 'em to Turkey and Greece in 1990's, mostly to replace M47's and older M48's. Keeping stuff in storage depots isn't free and tanks in storage need periodic maintenance. The problem with reselling Leopard 1's and especially for German Leopard 1's a bit of disconnect between sellers and buyers. Third world countries that would like to buy 'em are involved in internal conflicts and German politicians have huge issues with bullshit like human rights. Germans aren't only ones with Leopard 1's to sell. Italians had lots of those.

What is point where they scrap a tank? The point where they have cannibalized it for spares to keep remaining Leopard 1's running. Specialist variants that remained in service longer than baseline tanks. Engineering vehicles and so on. If we look at stuff Bundeswehr procured in late 90's and early 2000's, they decided to modify handful of M48's to recovery vehicles. At the time when they were already surplussing Leopard 2's. In hind sight they should have reduced number base vehicles for simpler and cheaper logistics. My spider sense tingles… probably that M48 conversion was in works for a long time and just progressed with force of bureaucratic inertia for long time after it made any sense.

>>686297

Tornado production line hasn't existed for a twenty years. A lot of production tooling have been modified to Typhoon production.

>>686303

I can't believe we're having the Tiger debate again.

Tanks used as emplaced guns lose all their effectiveness.

But I guess you gotta try and defend that centurion 'muh first good British tank' somehow. The M48 wasn't even that well armored but still underpowered. Mobility is the tank's main reason of existence. If you just use them as METAL BAWKSES, you'll get outmanoeuvred and eventually destroyed. Just look at the Saudis. They managed to get every single modern MBT destroyed by some ragheads with RPGs.

If you think about the Soviet tanks which were usually well armored and armed but had terrible sights and coordination, mobility becomes even more important.

And don't forget the IS-3s and T-10s which would have just dabbed on any tank head to head. The cold war was dominated by weird and untested ideas and thank Christ we never had to see them get tested. But I firmly believe in mobility when it comes to tanks.

>>686297 (You)

PS: the typhoon a shit

The only aspect in which is superior to the Rafale is the engines. IMO EU cucks should stop trying to shill for the airframe and focus on selling its consortium-made-and-totally-not-RollsRoyce-alone powerplant as a competitor to the GE F414 and similarly sized engines for the Gripen-E and retrofitting older aircraft.

>>686310

>Tornado production line hasn't existed for a twenty years.

Not saying that they should produce more of that quasi-failure equivalent of the F-111, just pointing out that by thumb rule airframes have a longer lifespan than engines and that retrofitting a good engine would solve one of the Tornado's main problems, which was being underpowered. With nominal thrust values the EJ200 would theoretically allow the Tornado to supercruise at sea level inb4 "non-afterburning turbofans don't work that way retard!".

>>686266

I believe Trudeau has begun the process of buying F-35s despite campaigning against them.

And while I am no pilot nor aerospace engineer it seems the F-35 has so many drawbacks that it’s capabilities cannot overlook it’s absurd overheating issues, and suicide seat. Though I honestly do not know what it’s combat capabilities are.

>>686270

So population exchange, western Poles move eastwards giving up, or selling their land in exchange for free or very cheap land in eastern Poland once the area is recaptured. Likewise the remaining Germans in Poland are forcibly moved into now eastern Germany of they do not fall into those borders anyways, and Germany’s are either given back historical family land (which seems like a logistic and legal nightmare) or incentivized to move east as many new jobs will be created to re-Germanize the area.

This is of course a pipedream and I would be happy with a German-Austrian-Luxembourg-Eupen-Malmedy-maybe Lichtenstein integration. And splitting of Belgium between the Netherlands and France maybe in exchange for Elßas?

>>686310

>Luftwaffe needs replacement for Tornado.

eurofighter

>>686310

> F-35 is better ground attack plane than Typhoon.

thats wrong though. plus it's a maintenance nightmare and has super-low sortie rate because of it's super-high-maintenance-times.

>>686236

>The thing that makes changing calibers for army expensive isn't the guns. It is ammunition stockpiles, tooling for ammunition production and so on.

<Germany

<ammunition stockpiles

Germany can barely supply their tiny little peacetime army, all of the plans in this thread call for massively expanding the infantry so we're going to need to build a fuckton of new ammo production either way.

>Su-25

Heavily-used surplus would work just fine, they only need to last another 5-10 years while the strike fighter situation is sorted out.

>Typhoon

I was under the impression that the majority of the Typhoons in German service were useless early models. Tranche 1 are beyond salvaging and should be disposed of, but if we can quickly and cheaply upgrade the remainder to Tranche 3 then we could keep them.

>Su-57

We need all the cheap fighters we can get, and short of nationalizing Typhoon production we're probably not going to beat the Su-57 for cost. It's also proven to be pretty decent at ground attack, which is one of the areas where the Typhoon will probably always be subpar.

>>685878

There's a reason why everybody except Germany is still using some kind of lightweight howitzer. Sometimes you just need a fuckton of cheap, air-mobile artillery. Also towed guns make my dick harder than any SPG ever could

>>686398

Mein gott, ich ist a drache!

>>686442

Let's scrap the 140 eurofighter on standby and buy Su-57 from Russia (which they have less than 100 WORLDWIDE!).

Mein gott!

>>686404

1st Reich - HRE.

2nd Reich - German Empire.

The OG Roman Empire is not considered a German Reich.

>>686404

>>686404

>Just have look at Görlitz, which was split asunder into a German half and a Polish half. The German half is probably the prettiest town in all of Saxony

Actually last time I was in Germany I visited Görlitz. The German side was nice (though a few abandoned run down buildings) and there was active repair work being done on gothic style buildings. I crossed the border and the Polish side was run down and a few new buildings were having their bases poured but there was no repair work being done and much of the buildings were awful looking. Though I didn’t go very deep into the Polish part because after only 20 minutes I wanted to go back over the river but it took me another 25 minutes to find another bridge.

>It's about 100 years too late a großdeutsche Lösung, buddy.

I just cannot see Germany getting her land back, Austrian unification seems much Moreno plausible and even that seems like it’s a near impossibility, though the FPÖ seems to at least give lip service to pan-German ideas.

>>686398

Posen is rightful Polish clay though. Silesia, Hinterpommern, Pomerellen, Preußen, and Memelland should be German though, just as northern Schleswig is pretty rightfully Danish Elßas-Lothringen was German until Napoleon started Frenchifying them (and the bretons, Normans, ect.) Switzerland is a mystery for me though, I can’t say what should be done with it in an ideal Europe, if anything.

>>686475

>doesn't know what Transhit 1 Typhoons are

Please refrain from expressing an opinion and if possible also breathing.

>>686506

Posen I can accept ceding to Poland but Westpreußen and Schlesien with Kattowitz are rightful German clay as is the Memelland.

Switzerland should just stay as is unless they abandon their tribal democracy in favor of republican judaism, Südtirol is rightful Austrian clay and Elsass-Lothringen should be its own country or join Switzerland for the hell of it.

Belgium should be dissolved and split up between France, Germany and the Netherlands though as their faggotry has long surpassed safe limits.

Also have the UK cede norn Iron to Ireland, seriously what's the point of that enclave besides causing more unneeded conflicts among white men. Gibraltar should go to Spain, it's not like the British have much of a Navy or Empire left in this day and age.

>>686311

Is a 10mph top speed difference really worth being vulnerable to getting perforated by literally every AT weapon short of an AT rifle? I know that in the fight between gun and armor, gun usually wins out, but that doesn't mean that you can't deal the enemy virtual attrition by making stockpiled weapons obsolete and toothless against new hardware like what the soviet parade pieces sought to do.

The Saudis and really any sand nigger are idiots and wouldn't be able to win a war against African Zulu fighters when equipped with machine guns. They are also using dug in tanks against a guerrilla force that doesn't give a shit about where the "front line" is so its only to be expected that they fucking die.

Tank crews will always position their vehicle behind something and get hull down whenever possible because it works. And having armor so stupidly light for such a small mobility gain due to tracks only being able to go so fast is a dumb idea because it limits the amount of objects that go from cover to simply concealment. You are better off making the vehicle shell splinter and .50 cal proof and wheeled if you are going to be a defeatist on armor like with the Leopard 1.

>>686361

As long as the people remains, the government can be changed, Merkel is old and on the way out anyway.

Anyway, small arms and uniform are the LEAST of Germany problems.

>>686736

That's the point of ERA and good supporting infantries.

The point is to re-use the old Leopard 1, NOT wasting millions of making a thousand of new tanks for literally no benefits (what, war against Russia with their ALSO updated T-72?).

I really hate burgers on their mentality of OLD THING SHIT, INVEST NEW THINGS, NEW THINGS NOW! NOW!

>>686815

>On top of the fact that, there aren't even any Leo 1s around in Germany anymore, I would just have Krauss-Maffei Wegmann make a whole bunch of Leo 2s and be done with it. It's a fantastic MBT in every respect.

How true is this?

So Germany sold ALL of their old Cold War stock, not even 500 remaining?

And is there any difficulty in mass producing Leo 2? I thought it requires some rare earth materials for electronics which make it hard to mass produce?

>>686825

Dude, where do you get your info? The Leo 1 was completely removed from service like 15 years ago because the Heer rightfully saw no use in spending large amounts of money to modernize a terminally obsolete design.

The Leopard 2 is better in every conceivable way and they should just build more of them.

>issues with rare earths or electronics preventing mass production

It's not 1944 anymore. They even have all the ball bearings they need despite the Schweinfurt-raid.

The Leopard 2 has been in consistent production since 1979. If the German government weren't a bunch of Volksverräter, our arsenal of tanks would have never shrunk as low as it is today.

>>686891

Hold up, even kikepedia says that it didn't do a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Raid_on_Schweinfurt

>The operation was a failure at all levels. At this time there were no Merlin engined P-51 Mustangs yet available for USAAF fighter squadrons to provide long-range escort (they were to start coming on-line during the winter of 1943–44), while the P-47 Thunderbolt was totally inadequate for the job — so the bomber formations were left exposed to unrelenting attacks by German fighters; and the improper preparations for the creation of reserves in the summer of 1943 meant that current logistics could not sustain such costly operations. The intelligence of the Allied Air Forces was also flawed. Arthur Harris, Air Officer Commanding RAF Bomber Command questioned the intelligence that claimed ball bearings to be the critical node in the German war economy. Harris refused to cooperate with the Americans, believing ball bearing targets to be a false "panacea".[10] Post-war analysis has shown Harris's objections to be correct.[11] However, an escort of 24 squadrons of Spitfires equipped with drop tanks was provided on the first and last leg of the mission.[12] The Germans had built up enormous reserves of ball bearings and were receiving supplies from all over Europe, particularly Italy, Sweden and Switzerland. The operation against these industries would, even if successful, have achieved little.[13][14] By 1945 the Germans had assembled more reserves than ever before.[15]

>>686891

How long does it take to produce 1000 Leo 2?

I think with modern factory, it would take a year top right?

>KraussMaffei Group is a Chinese-owned manufacturer of injection molding machines, machines for plastics extrusion technology, and reaction process machinery. It was acquired by ChemChina, a Chinese state-owned enterprise, in 2016.[1][2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krauss-Maffei

HOLY SHIT

WHY THE FUCK IS THIS ALLOWED?

>>687035

It benefits a rootless international clique.

>>687035

I thought that company is one of the last German defense company. Well it looks like Germany is truly fucked.

>>687035

Don't know if retarded or just trolling.

>Krauss-Maffei's defense and locomotive component was later spun off and merged with Wegmann and became the present-day company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW), which is independent of KraussMaffei Group.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krauss-Maffei_Wegmann

>>687066

Ok that is better, but why is chink company allowed to buy german company?

>>687029

With the factories currently tooled for making leopard 2's? Probably like 10 years, with expansion of production sure you can get 1000 a year or even 10000 a year if you want.

>in before source

the source like always, is a solid one.

>>687091

Of course we are talking about a 4th Reich-ist state with desire to re-arm.

>>686891

>Dude, where do you get your info? The Leo 1 was completely removed from service like 15 years ago because the Heer rightfully saw no use in spending large amounts of money to modernize a terminally obsolete design.

I just want to ask what happened to about 2000 Leopard 1 left after the Cold War.

How many are resold and how many are kept in stock? I couldn't find any source for this matter.

>>685769

Form companies to rapidly acquire former South African institutional knowledge while providing every incentive for Boer refugees resettlement.

Coordinate with Italy to drop the euro and make the revocation of the enemy state clauses as a condition of staying in NATO.

German National Anthem lyrics restored

Suspend 'reparations' to that one country.

Accede to all property claims of the surviving Hohenzollerns, and the same for families expropriated in the east.

Negotiate the removal of the largest Intel factory from that one country along with its relocation to Germany on the basis of its exploitation by legacy Soviet espionage against the US/NATO. Begin investment so as to not be beholden to 'happy merchants'/Russia/China hard & software security compromise at the design & fabrication level.

Horizontally promote the morally insane and politically unreliable into such onerous positions that they can be discharged with plausible deniability.

Get to Mars first with the aim of first pick on any potential artifacts/tech within the century.

>>687135

I still don't understand the logics of german government allow state-owned chink company buying german company.

I know it's separated from the tank/locomotive firm, but still.

>They were sold and those that weren't were scrapped. What's so hard to understand about that? Militaries do that all the time with their old shit.

Russians still keep their stock T-72 and upgrade them. It seems like a huge waste to scrap 2000-4000 Leo 1.

>>685769

Incoming military officers coup.

https://www.thetrumpet.com/21017-the-german-wehrmacht-returns

>>687163

>detonate nuclear weapons, leaving cities without inhabitants

And this is somehow supposed to be a bad thing?

>>687163

(Isaiah 6:11):-

Then I said, "For how long, Lord?" And he answered: "Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged,

I don't see anything about nukes here :^)

Bump.

>>687378

> We need diversity to destroy every nation on the face of the earth so there are no super powers remaining to have a nuclear war

Turns out the diversity will destroy the quality of life and humanity worse than the nukes. Not only ironic, but shows how bad the policies really, really are.

>>687396

The thing is a good chunk of Detroit is a shithole like that. It looks like something out of fallout, except for fields of corn popping up and darkies running around em.

No ships.

Airforce & army only…

https://www.wsj.com/articles/german-engineering-yields-new-warship-that-isnt-fit-for-sea-1515753000

>>687415

A strong navy fleet is unnecessary for German right now.

A wolf brigade type of submarine maybe.

>>687396

>implying the picture is not representative of a great part of American nigger-infested shitholes like detroit

>>687147

>Russians still keep their stock T-72 and upgrade them. It seems like a huge waste to scrap 2000-4000 Leo 1

Hardware is upgraded until it is no longer possible to upgrade it any further. Then it's scrapped and replaced. If that wasn't the case, we'd be using Brown Bess muskets with weaver rails.

>>685774

lol, ETHNOGLOBE

>>687415

https://navaltoday.com/2019/04/30/germany-finally-accepts-delivery-of-lead-f125-frigate-fgs-baden-wurttemberg/

>>687415

And yet krauts had the audacity to accuse our constructors for incompetence when we complained that the Papanikolis-class had serious design flaws. Guess efficiency memes go out the hatch when Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH hires roaches for diversity points.

>>687415

Thanks for linking to a paywall, fag.

>>685769

>take out all the rusty Leopard 1 and upgrade them with modern features in order to have a quick tank fleet

But Leopard 2 are faster.

<sell your junk to your allies to make a quick buck and keep them under your belt

>>687775

How fast is it to make new Leo 2 vs upgrading what's left of the stock Leo 1?

>>685842

good to know, pagst then?

>>685769

>>685769

Complete Auturky economy with foreign investments made to steal technology that would otherwise be unable to manufactured alone in Germany ie pull a China and steal tech. Then stop trade after the tech is stolen and produce it domestically and improve on it over time after research has also been stolen. Nationalize important features such as transportation, energy, public utilities, and enhance corporate and state cooperation. Destroy all unions and employ all Germans at a living wage, by deporting or killing all migrants who drive down the cost of labor. Increase tax on the extremely rich through multiple tax brackets ie >$1 Billion = 35% tax and a -5% for every zero lost ex: $60,000,000 income = 25% and $6,000,000 income = 20%. Revamp into war economy but with tight state control so after the war, the economy can transition back into a civilian one, if specialization is needed for war then that certain area would remain untouched post-war ex: technology. Massive propaganda waves with calls for nationalism, patriotism, and family as core tenants of the new Reich's society. Encourage joining the military at a young age to draw in recruits, along with mandatory service for 3 years between the ages of 18-21. Liquidify (((Globalist Banks))) recall loans on other smaller nations with less power, can't recall debt on the US unless I want to get fucked. To retool the military start with high volume production of Eurofighter Typhoon as a stop-gap to have more serviceable fighters in the air, then move on to 6th Gen by using stolen research and intel of foreign fighter jets (F-35) after a small purchase of them, ex: 24 to form two squadrons and avoid scrutiny by US. Then move on to Army, more upgrades for Leopard 2 and move onto mass production for domestic service and temporarily stop export to boost own country's ranks. Upgrades, improved smart rounds, more ERA, Trophy systems, and improved FLIR and sensors. For the infantry equip them with newer rifles HK 443, newer body armor rated at IV after purchasing small batches or Russian body armor and reverse engineering it and producing similar companies domestically. The Navy will always be underfunded I mean come on its the fucking Kreigsmarine it's literally what they are known for, I'm just fucking around, mostly invest more in AIP submarines to defend Germany's Coast and to sink enemy ships out in the Atlantic. Did I mention ramped up military budget and cutting all social services to migrants to compensate for costs??? If not I did now. So yeah thats just the basic plan.

>>688411

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey. The F-35 sure was retarded as an idea from the very beginning of the JSF program but in now way it is not the most technologically advanced military platform in current year (other than being a complete failure in almost every practical application that is).

>>685787

>.308

>select fire

>rifle

God it's almost like every country on this planet universally abandoned the idea if they even picked it up at all and no military on this Earth is even vaguely interested in going back.

Shit, it's like most of the countries that actually went to war with .308 rifles decided full-auto was a waste of time.

Fucking fuddgots.

>>688585

>>688585

> most of the countries that actually went to war with .308 rifles decided full-auto was a waste of time

They abandoned it because daddy america forced everyone to buy 5.56 meme rifles. After it's pathetic failure in Iraq and Afghanistan even the burgers decided to throw 5.56 down the shitter and go with vastly superior 7,62 and 6.5 instead.

>>688590

>7,62

>,

Fuck off third worlder.

>>688605

>outed as a 3rd worlder

>'f-fucking westerners'

>>688619

>britain forced america to adopt 5.56

What level of americope is this?

>>688626

>quoting things that were never said, implied or even vaguely alluded to

The last resort of a desperate boomer.

>>688641

>>america forced them to adopt 5.56

>you've got that the wrong way around

>N-NOOOOO I NEVER IMPLIED THAT NOOO, Y-YOU'RE A BOOMER!

>>>/reddit/

>>688644

>>688626

The guy you're quoting pretending to quote never even mentioned 5.56.

>>688646

It gets worse, mods deleted my post. No idea why.

>>688646

It gets worse than that, they've deleted several of my posts across several threads. I can't even imagine why, literally no rules were broken by any convention.

Good to know /k/ has gotten /tv/ tier mods now.

>>685806

>Those helmet look like stupid ass Star Wars rebel helmets.

I during my time in the Bundeswehr I have worn the Gefechtshelm M92 made of Kevlar, which has a shape similar to the Stahlhelm, I also own a East German M56/74 which I got from an ExBundeswehr soldier, who helped liquidate the equipment of the NVA after the Fall of the Iron curtain. Despite the Inlay of the M56/74 being older and more primitive than the Inlay of the M92, the East German helmet is much nicer to wear and less claustrophobic.

>The germans have discovered the best helmet design and have used it since WW1, stick to it.

The Stahlhelm of WW1 and WW2 was too much in the neck and front area which caused it to be pushed up when the soldiers got into a prone position and reduced sight, this resulted in many soldiers wearing the helmet backwards or cutting the visors off them.

A good Hitler wouldn't reveal his plans over the internet.