No.1055372 [Last50 Posts]
It's April Fool's Day, so it's time for Joker comics.
I'm going to start with Legends of the Dark Knight #50, written by Dennis O'Neil, with art by Bret Blevins. It's a retelling of The Joker's first appearance, and arguably the best retelling.
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No.1055373
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No.1055374
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No.1055375
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No.1055376
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No.1055377
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No.1055378
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No.1055379
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No.1055380
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No.1055381
The Joker only really works as a mobster with a gimmick. Whose body counts don't really exceed mobsters.
The edgelord Joker that Alan Moore more or less enabled if not created makes the character fall apart.
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No.1055383
>>1055375
I can't help stopping to think about the impossibility of that one-hand-stand on pic 4. That's can't be balanced.
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No.1055384
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1055381
I'm of a similar opinion; he works best as a clown with a criminal theme, instead of the modern criminal with a clown theme
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No.1055385
>>1055383
he's using a gymnastics ring and most likely has his foot around the strap. The angle just looks weird
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No.1055389
One of my favorite Joker stories "The Crazy Crime Clown" from Batman #74 (Republished in The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told). The Joker appears to lose his mind and it's up to Batman and Robin figure out what's going on.
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No.1055390
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No.1055393
>>1055381
>>1055384
No, the Joker isn't a mobster with a gimmick. He's a criminal "joker", particularly a "practical joker", someone who plays tricks on others to make them look foolish. The Joker commits crimes to make his victims a laughingstock for his own sick amusement. He's a reverse clown, one that laughs at you instead of you laughing at him.
In keeping with a reverse clown, good writers remember that The Joker absolutely hates being laughed at and being made a fool of. Which is why The Joker utterly despises Batman. Batman constantly outsmarts him and leaves him the joke of the criminal world.
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No.1055396
>>1055393
>he thinks being edgy is really good
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No.1055404
>>1055396
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion from that post.
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No.1055406
He'd would get caught by Batman so much if he just stopped with all the boners.
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No.1055467
How do we fix the broken modern Joker?
As far as I've heard he had been bathed in a Lazarus Pit or is 5 people.
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No.1055469
>>1055467
Brave and the Bold is a pretty good example for how he should be handled.
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No.1055471
>>1055469
I never watched Bave and the Bold even if everyone said it was so good.
Original Batman Animated Series was a good way to see the Joker before they introduced the beating husband undertones.
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No.1055487
The joker is a boring 2 Dimensional Character.
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No.1055491
>>1055471
BTAS had a poor understanding of The Joker. The only episodes that were The Joker were "The Laughing Fish" and "Make Em' Laugh".
>>1055487
>2 Dimensional
It's like you're expecting deep literature from Batman.
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No.1055509
>>1055471
>Original Batman Animated Series was a good way to see the Joker before they introduced the beating husband undertones.
I liked the beating husband undertones. I know it's a horrible thing to say but I liked it when he hit Harley Quinn
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No.1055512
>>1055491
>BTAS had a poor understanding of The Joker
I disagree. BTAS had an excellent understanding of Joker. Perhaps the execution was not so great, but I disagree there too
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No.1055514
>>1055512
No, Timm never had a good grasp on the character. Compare that response to "just shoot him" to Detective Comics #71, "A Crime A Day", written by The Joker's co-creator Bill Finger. The Joker clearly states that reason he doesn't just shoot Batman is because he wants to make Batman look like an utter fool.
The Joker doesn't commit crimes because it's funny. He commits crimes so he can make people look stupid and laugh in their face.
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No.1055516
>>1055514
The reasoning is exactly the same. You're simply autistic
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No.1055528
When was the last time that he was funny?
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No.1055549
>>1055528
I think the only time the Joker was actually funny was when Jack Nicholson played him.
Although tbh that story he told about the two lunatics escaping from the asylum was pretty good.
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No.1055552
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No.1055727
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Meanwhile on the film front…
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No.1055729
>>1055727
We live in a society, folks.
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No.1055735
>>1055381
All this attempt to push Batman to killing the Joker is retarded. It isn't like Batman isn't the only person that kill the Joker. Also, it isn't his fucking responsibility.
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No.1055739
>>1055735
>All this attempt to push Batman to killing the Joker is retarded.
That's what happens when you break a long running comic. Batman runs on a core premise: Batman brings criminals to justice. When they turned The Joker, Batman's most popular villain, into a serial killer, justice became impossible. The Joker's constant reappearances meant the justice system of Gotham City couldn't keep a near mass-murderer behind bars, which meant that the entire justice system of Gotham City was broken, and that includes Batman. How can Batman "bring criminals to justice" when that justice clearly doesn't exist?
Bill Finger moved The Joker away from murder for a reason. A crook as a reoccurring villain is less of an injury to justice than a killer.
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No.1055741
>>1055739
>Bill Finger moved The Joker away from murder for a reason
Finger moved The Joker away from murder because he was told to, by Whitney Ellsworth (the guy the Deadwood guy was named after). What Finger wanted was to kill the Joker off entirely because any recurring villain makes Batman look inept. He was overruled on that one, again by Ellsworth
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No.1055748
>>1055741
>He thought Batman having ANY recurring villains was a bad idea
Well thank fucking god he got overruled. Could you imagine how fucking boring Batman would be without his rogue gallery?
Still, making Joker a sleazy crime boss with a morbid sense of humor and a distaste for society and structure is a much smarter, more entertaining take than making him a spooky serial killer who just kills a gajillion because EDGE.
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No.1056035
>>1055748
>Could you imagine how fucking boring Batman would be without his rogue gallery?
He'd probably deemed a Shadow knockoff.
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No.1056068
>>1056035
Razorfist seems to think so.
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No.1056073
>>1055372
The joker has become trash that only normalfags enjoy I've lost all interest in him and a great deal of interest in batman.
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No.1056106
>>1056035
>>1056068
>He'd probably deemed a Shadow knockoff
No, Batman stopped being a Shadow knockoff once Robin was introduced.
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No.1056108
>>1056068
>Razorfist
>eceleb
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No.1056518
The only origin story good enough for the Joker is what we see on "We need to talk about Kelvin" i still expecting then to canonize it as the oficial joker backstory since Ezra is no longer playing the Flash and they are sending the continuity to hell.
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No.1056600
>>1055380
This wouldn't be a bad design for a superhero costume.
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No.1062670
Supposed leaks for the Joker Movie.
>1980’s Gotham City.
>Arthur Fleck is a struggling standup comedian who moves back in with his ailing bipolar mother to take care of her.
>Arthur is a socially awkward introvert with a condition that causes him to laugh uncontrollably when nervous.
>Arthur’s stand-up routine sucks and he works part-time as a clown to cover expenses. One of his coworkers gives him a gun for protection after some punks assault Arthur.
>Arthur develops a crush on his neighbor Zazie Beetz, a single mom who works at a bank, and begins stalking her. She treats him well out of pity, which he misconstructs as genuine affection.
>Most of the movie is just Arthur slowly spiraling into insanity due to his shitty life and abusive mother. He also resents the wealthy.
>A recording of his shitty standup is shown and mocked on a popular late night talk show hosted by Robert De Niro.
>Thomas Wayne is the Mayor and people have been protesting against him for neglecting the poor masses.
>Arthur’s mother was once Thomas' secretary and tells Arthur during one of her maniac episodes that he is Thomas’ son.
>Arthur aggravates Thomas with his attempts to get close (stalking Thomas’ family at Wayne Manor, sneaking into a fundraiser and ambushing Thomas in the bathroom, etc.) and gets beaten and humiliated.
>Arthur gets into an altercation with three Wall Street types in the subway and kills them in clown getup, which becomes a symbol against the rich that oppress and abuse the poor.
>While Arthur away his mother has an episode and is sent to Arkham.
>Arthur catches Zazie with her boyfriend and makes a scene at the bank, calling her a whore and getting her fired, for which she cuts ties with him.
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No.1062671
>>1062670
>Arthur finds out she was obsessed with Thomas but he never fucked her, so Arthur isn’t his son. He also learn she was aware her boyfriend was sexually abusing 4-year-old Arthur and let it happen.
>Arthur visits his mom in Arkham and kills her (off-screen).
>De Niro’s talk show tracks Arthur and invites him to a guest spot to roast him some more.
>Arthur embraces the identity of “Joker” and begins killing people who wronged him, though he spares Zazie.
>At the talk show, Joker calls for an uprising against the rich before shooting De Niro on live television.
>His speech triggers a citywide riot, during which Thomas and Martha Wayne get shot by one of his followers.
>Joker is chased by the police through the city, but eventually gets caught and arrested.
>Movie ends with Joker being committed to Arkham, so out of reality he “hears” the soundtrack (“That’s Life” by Frank Sinatra) and dances to it as the credits roll.
>Arthur does a lot of dancing in the movie. He dances with his mom, dances after killing the Wall Street guys, dances as he becomes the Joker, dances on the talk show, etc.
>Arthur dancing on the steps is to the sound of "Bennie and the Jets" by Elton John.
>Arthur only wears the full Joker costume in the third arc, roughly 30 minutes at most.
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No.1062688
>>1055372
Joker hasn't been good in years
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No.1066571
Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker Movie ‘Doesn’t Follow Anything’ From The Comics
http://archive.is/69cvb
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No.1066581
>>1066571
Heck maybe that means it can be entertainingly bad atleast.
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No.1066583
>>1066581
Stuff I've heard from leaks seem to vaguely line up with the trailer so, if it's really true, this movie sounds like it was never meant to be a Joker movie. More like the name was slapped on late in the process. Another way to look at it is that it's a literal "____ rise up" Joker meme.
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No.1066632
>>1066571
New still from same article
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No.1066636
>>1055372
always liked the idea of LOTDK, having no real continuity and just letting the writers write without being restricted. the joker issues of batman confidential were pretty good in that respect, if you just throw continuity out the window
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No.1066647
>>1055381
Thats what oldfags actually believe.
I think you're wrong and degrading a former mobster to still being a mobster after transformation is bullshit.
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No.1066648
>>1056600
Seeing the panel without context made me think of the Grey Ghost.
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No.1066649
>>1066571
Absolute bullshit. Joker might not be the Joker from the comics, but the trailer is already full of stuff we've seen in Killing Joke. Like him laughing about the misery of a comedian who's talking honest on stage. And the wife character got replaced by his mother, but the conflict is the same. I bet he will become a criminal because he's out of money, too.
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No.1066660
>>1066583
My guess is that it could have started as a literal Clown World movie in the vein of Falling Down, normal guy cracks and goes on a rampage. I guess suits couldn't accept that so they had to try and make it related to a big title.
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No.1066662
>>1066649
>comedian goes crazy
>It's just like the killing joke guys!!!
You're really reaching here, bud.
>>1066660
That's pretty much exactly what I think.
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No.1066674
>>1066662
I've said "full of stuff we've seen in Killing Joke".
I haven't said "It's just like the Killing Joke."
Faggot.
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No.1066675
>>1066674
You're still wrong even with arguing the semantics. There's nothing here that's lifted from Killing Joke besides being an origin story for Joker.
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No.1066689
>>1066675
Tell yourself that.
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No.1066699
>>1066689
You've provided no evidence to the contrary beyond your own EXTREMELY loose interpretation.
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No.1066748
>>1066649
i think you're missing an important point which is that it doesn't matter whether they're using shit from the comics or not, because this fucking movie is just taxi driver mixed with king of comedy with an extremely contrived "joker" coat of paint to appeal to edgelords and people who love the dark knight.
we already had a joker origin movie, it's tim burton's fucking batman.
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No.1066749
>>1066748
Tim Burton's fucking Batman is overrated.
After his first reveal, appearing in one guy's offense, Nickelson Joker is an utter dumbass.
I don't care how nostalgic everyone is. I grew up with the sequel and the cartoon.
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No.1066751
>>1066749
i agree for the most part. i grew up on the cartoon as well, and the '89 movie is flawed as hell. but i'd rather see another movie in the same vein then this faux-artsy predictable shit.
also, animated series joker is heavily based on the marshall rodgers joker, and so it seems is jack nicholson's joker. they're not that dissimilar
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No.1066764
>>1066749
>offense
I mean OFFICE. Sorry.
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No.1066768
>>1066751
I'm aware that Burton Joker has much of the cartoon Joker. Thing is, I'm a comics newfag. I spontaniously decided to read comics after I bought the Court of Owls comics. Before that, I've only read Arkham, Watchmen and Killing Joke.
After watching Dark Knight, I was like: "This is it. This is the perfect Joker. This is the ONLY Joker!" And after reading comics, I realised how pretentious that was. To me, Ledger Joker is still the best, but there are so many good Joker variations in the comics, that I'm open to many Jokers in the movies.
I even appreciated the idea behind Leto Joker, it's just that the character was crap. I wouldn't neccessarily blame Leto, but rather the godawful movie itself, and that he was pointless in it.
I agree that it's annoying how many super-serious, edgy Jokers we get. But on the other hand, the next Joker we get is yet another interesting interpretation. He's like the everyday guy. An Elseworld Joker, basically. That's why I keep comparing it to Killing Joke, because we get a backstory and motivation for him. Usually, that would absolutely ruin it for me, but this is a non-superhero, non-Batman world, so it's fine and a new approach.
It's not like this Joker is edgy, he rather seems tragic. But I agree, he lacks the funny aspect. We need another Joker who has fun doing what he does.
That's the thing though, everyone blames the Ledger Joker for being edgy and not funny, but it's simply not true. He was funny (at least he thinks he's funny - it's just that Nolan writes bad humor, if you check his other movies) and had much fun at being a criminal. That was totally done right. He just wasn't "cartoony", but that wouldn't fit the tone of the movies. And I worry, it we really want cartoony Joker, then he's combined with the DCU's cringy cartoony aspects, Justice League style.
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No.1066774
Story-timing The Joker's Movie Crimes, from Batman #80, published December, 1953. Written by Bill Finger with pencils by Dick Sprang.
With The Joker, there really shouldn't be any room for "interpretation". His character is pretty clear. He's a fucking fool.
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No.1066775
>>1066774
Now this is why The Joker's Movie Crimes is one of my favorites. Batman knew where The Joker's hide-out was thanks to trivial information about film production, but just sat on that information until The Joker completed his list of customers for his film. So in one swoop, Batman takes down The Joker and a massive portion of the criminal underworld. No wonder The Joker is a laughingstock.
Also, a lot of people confuse Dick Sprang with Sheldon Moldoff when it comes to Batman art. That really shouldn't be that case. Sprang's art is way more dynamic than Moldoff's.
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No.1066776
>>1066774
>>1066775
In case people are wondering why The Joker is wearing a monocle and an ascot, it's because The Joker is dressing like famed film director Fritz Lang.
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No.1066800
>>1066774
I think you're right in that the Joker is a fool. It should be important to note that even based on these silver age interpretations, he could be an intelligent and competent criminal, but his obsessive nature fails him. As in, potentially he was an effective criminal before the chemical bath, but the fractured psyche post-dip has ruined that. There are hints of competent schemes in his absurd crimes, but he is thwarted constantly through his reliance on these comical gimmicks.
I think this interpretation marries the silver age Joker with the first appearance killer Joker. Everyone's so focused on adapting that first appearance to stay "faithful" to the comics, but when other stuff is used from that era, everyone thinks it's nonsense. Such as Batman using guns or killing.
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No.1066820
>>1066800
>Silver Age
No, 1953 is firmly in Batman's Golden Age. Batman's Silver Age didn't start until 1964 with The New Look. Dubs are wasted on a casual like you.
Also, The Joker doesn't fail because of his "obsessive nature" or "comic gimmicks". He fails because of his own massive ego, a character flaw he's had since his first appearance. The Joker commits crimes to fuel his own arrogance, which leads him to mock Batman by leaving clues and advertising his crimes, which leads to him getting caught and made a fool of.
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No.1069066
Despite all you "I want him to be an unedgy arrogant buffoon" nostalgics, the characteristics of the Joker evolved because villains are meant to be edgy, not campy. That's what makes them villains. The evolved personality of the Joker makes perfect sense to me, until about the torn off face Joker. In some interpretations, he encountered life at it's worst. He didn't "go insane". The vat of chemicals was the perfect excuse to act insane.
This is a sane man denying sanity. He plots, he crafts chemical compositions, he puts together elaborate devices and typically makes sure he's dressed up for the occasion. His is a tinkering, planning mind. The evolved Joker kills (devolved by Hollywood already with Jared Leto and soon Joaquin Phoenix) sometimes calculated and sometimes random, because he wants others to feel his misery and realize the joke and the punchline. Life is the sick joke. Death is the punchline. Tears bring only more agony when mourning. He found laughter was a far better coping mechanism.
A man is not insane just because he murders. It's most frequently revenge or a crime of passion. Calculated, as his killings sometimes are. If it were true, wouldn't all field soldiers be classified insane? The Joker's motivations are through acting on that internal feeling of wrongness when life treated him like shit. Cruelty in his life simply should not have been. Cruelty to others balances it out. Call that interpretation edgy, side with a clown who loves to humiliate people based on campy old 50s comics and a 60s TV show, and you're losing raw motivation.
To him it's not fair, the people who live their lives in relative peace when he was permitted only misery. Their lives must coincide with his to bring others to his viewpoint. If sheriffs and politicians understood that simple concept, the fools would be able to counter public shooters through implementing public works in prevention of these frustrations that cause gross retaliation. "We may never understand what leads anybody to terrorize their fellow human beings like this", they said. Which later became polarized villainize a group they disagree with and ignore other criminal happenings bullshit. Goddamn imbeciles.
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No.1069068
>>1069066
Go back to reddit.
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No.1069069
>>1069066
Why can't we have both ? I thought there were infinite universes or something like that
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No.1069071
>>1069068
What, the spacing? This entire thread and almost every post on this board is spaced like that. I don't go to Reddit, you cliched faggot.
>>1069069
Have both, then. Denying the interpretation I mentioned is denying the genius of how that type of Joker is the very essence of criminal motivations.
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No.1069080
>>1069071
You babbled about how Alan Moore's edgy Joker (and it was Moore who invented that) was totally best and then babbled some cuck's first crime policy with muh dindu criminals (tell that to Singapore). You're a redditor.
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No.1069093
>>1069080
>blahblahblah you're a Redditor.
No I'm not, dumbass.
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No.1069312
>>1055381
I mean, they're trying to fix that by making it out that there are actually three of them, one being closer to this one/DCAU ex-Mob Hitman Loner/Red Hood- the other the killing joke one, and the third being what one can only guess is a DCAU microchipped one or somesuch- which makes sense in the idea that there's an overarching explanation for some of the changes to his skillset he had over time that made him into this batshit everyman who could do everything for the sake of his gimmick- to the point where people like lex luthor looked at blueprints he wrote up like "Dayum".
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No.1069328
>>1055748
>Could you imagine how fucking boring Batman would be without his rogue gallery?
Better, if he were allowed some new faces to show up as well as focusing on detective work and actual criminality, criminology and psychology, with thematic civilians showing up for a run before a final drawing conclusion on them
I mean, I liked it when Ivy fucked off to join with swamp thing/became a working eco-terrorist, DCAU also had a decent ending for her bar Batman's whole "well I guess I'll just put up with your clones then".
I liked it when Scarecrow fucked off to the Sinestro Core because holy fuck, that was a match made in heaven, Crane is a wonderful villain because he always has fundamental motivation that adds fuel to stories- I'd love to see him in a supernatural a take with him exploring cosmic horror in his studies on fear- nevermind Batman and his pilfering of his Toxin- which is always a value to his work- something that he should've incorporated into his crime-fighting more often.
Harley fucking off because of the abuse to do her own thing is fine with me- though she lacks some deal of humor- but I liked her with green arrow, and I liked Riddler became a detective, sure the guy works both ways as villain and anti-hero, so I wouldn't mind seeing him as a more amoral batman/question, Harley was never handled in world as anything more than a sidekick that never really took much heat from the justice system despite what she was accomplice to or did herself- it's like the world drew a blank around her- and having her branch out as a multi-talented free-spirit is pretty enjoyable.
Mr Freeze was already done and dusted, the DCAU nailed him solid and making him a generic crook was just a waste- DCAU already provided the means to a successor Mr freeze- with his condition being passed on to those that would seek the longevity his condition granted him, next to (CN)'s the Batman also handling him as a crook the Batman accidentally created- which would be a fine premise to maintain the use of an ice-rogue to Batman's gallery. That- and I'd really like to see something like a Modernized German Freeze, or a take on the fucking Ice-cream man freeze with sickly dark fairytale/modern innocence gone twisted vibes.
Two-face though? Always saw him as a dead end- the Dark Knight returns pretty much showed us what would go down with potential rehabilitation- which is why we got dumb shit like one face- and what have-you- I will admit, the themes of duality in his crimes are a decent gimmick to tie intrigue into, but it's all dependent on whether it's intriguing- or at least not as big a joke as say Grodd's usual motivation in a comic.
Bane was pretty effective when he came out- but he since ran thin in terms of substance and 'The Batman (CN)' + Arkham Asylum didn't help him much by making him a Hulk- DCAU already pointed out the critical flaw in the 'breaking of the bat' unless he's working some sort of power/strength underworld enforcer/muscle cult and is involved in fucked-mexican drug cartel stuff in a newer renditon- he's fundamentally boring and should just end up DCAU venom overdosed- unless we go the Nolan route- somehow I get the guy had that looking for his dad thing, and he was Rash's heir- but it feels like he's lost a direct purpose overall. if we go by the original- I'd want him to fucking become a Mexican Luchador Punisher out to save mexico from it's drug cartels and eventually becoming the president or something.
Killer croc just needs to fuck off forever, he's like if Spiderman's Rhino didn't tone it down after his long run with him, becoming likable- this guy is just a black guy with a persecution complex with green scales- making him an Egyptian thing didn't do him any favors either- the best part about him is his classic X-files Nephillim/regressive evolutionary dud appearance, but even that doesn't hold him up as a decent choice for a long-standing rogue.
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No.1069441
>>1069328
>Harley fucking off because of the abuse
Harley without Joker is fucking bullshit, especially if it's in reaction to the abuse because she still goes around with the clown/joker-inspired theme. And you really can't say "the theme just stuck" or whatever. That's like a rape victim wearing their rapist's shirt everyday because they like the smell. EVEN if you consider post-new52 where she's been bleached by chemicals like him, it's still retarded. Just wear something else, stockholm bitch.
Harley's boring without the Joker anyway. Their relationship can really only end with one killing the other. Joker's clearly not going to take rejection, and Harley's never going to escape the fact that she was fucking the worst criminal in America.
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